US homeowner shoots German exchange student dead

[webfact]

US homeowner shoots German exchange student dead

MISSOULA, United States - A US homeowner who shot and killed a 17-year-old German high school exchange student he suspected of breaking into his garage was charged with homicide on Monday.

The 29-year-old shooter, Markus Kaarma was taken into custody Sunday after Montana police found the victim with a gunshot wound to his head.

"Initial reports indicate that the male resident encountered an intruder in his garage after an alarm went off, and subsequently shot him with a shotgun," police sergeant Travis Welsh said.

Diren Dede, of Hamburg, Germany, was studying at Big Sky High School in Missoula, where he played for a soccer team.

Kaarma appeared in court and was charged with deliberate homicide.

If convicted, he faces a minimum of 10 years and up to 100 years in state prison. Acting Justice of the Peace Suzanne Geer set bail at $30,000.

Defense lawyer Paul Ryan said Kaarma and his common law wife, Janelle Pflager, had been robbed twice in the previous three weeks and had installed screen surveillance and motion detectors. They have a 10-month-old son.

The two were on their couch, watching television, when an alarm sounded. "They had no choice in their mind other than to confront the intruder," Ryan said.

Ryan said Kaarma felt terrible about killing Dede. "It wasn’t his intent to even kill," he said. "It’s really tragic, there’s no question."

Dede’s host family lived in the same neighborhood as Kaarma, according to Deputy County Attorney Andrew Paul.

Paul said Kaarma fired four distinct shots, covering the entire back wall of the garage with his shotgun.

"He was just shooting in the dark," Paul told AFP.

Paul wouldn’t confirm that a second person had been with Dede on the night of the shooting, but noted that a friend had suggested the exchange student had entered the garage looking for something to drink.

Prosecutors accused the defendant of having a mindset of revenge. Paul cited a witness who alleges that Kaarma issued threats at a hairstyling salon on April 23. The hairstylist, Felene Sherbondy, quoted Kaarma as saying: "I’m just waiting to shoot some <deleted> kid," according to the prosecution’s affidavit.

Missoula County Schools Superintendent Alex Apostle called the shooting a tragedy. "We are all pulling together to support the students, staff and families of Big Sky High School," he said.

AFP


-- The Nation 2014-04-29

[hard124get]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

[Costas2008]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

Reminds me of Thailand.

RIP young boy.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Costas2008

[Bkungbank]

America should have gun control laws to enforce as President Obama promised , school children obtain guns easily and warning shot should be given and not shooting at blank as very dangerous act. But why the kids going into his garage looking for water that's raise a question too.

[Ulysses G.]

If his garage was locked - the article does not say - and the student broke in, wouldn't the responsibility be the kid's?

[NeverSure]

If his garage was locked - the article does not say - and the student broke in, wouldn't the responsibility be the kid's?

I don't think it has to be locked, although laws vary state to state. Here's an excerpt from Montana's constitution:

STATE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION

“The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.”

Article 2, Section 12.

LINK

(I might add that Montana will issue a concealed handgun license to anyone with a clean record.)

[lomatopo]

Surprised the home-owner was charged as Montana has a Stand your Ground law.

Maybe there is more to the situation?

Found this:

A western Montana man has been charged in the shooting death of a 17-year-old boy after prosecutors said he set a trap in his garage to catch any would-be burglars because he was frustrated over recent thefts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/teen-shot-killed-mans-garage-germany-23500791

Note that there was another intruder shooting in Billings the same day, and in that incident the victim was staying as a guest in the same house. He is expected to recover.

Edited April 29, 2014 by lomatopo

[NeverSure]

Surprised the home-owner was charged as Montana has a Stand your Ground law.

Maybe there is more to the situation?

Found this:

A western Montana man has been charged in the shooting death of a 17-year-old boy after prosecutors said he set a trap in his garage to catch any would-be burglars because he was frustrated over recent thefts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/teen-shot-killed-mans-garage-germany-23500791

Note that there was another intruder shooting in Billings the same day, and in that incident the victim was staying as a guest in the same house. He is expected to recover.

I don't know why "setting a trap" would be wrong after 2 burglaries in 3 weeks. According to the OP article, after the 2 burglaries, he installed motion detectors and screen surveillance. The alarm went off and he went to the garage.

So now installing an alarm system is setting a trap?

[lomatopo]

I don't know why "setting a trap" would be wrong after 2 burglaries in 3 weeks.

I don't either, but evidently the police and local prosecutor feel that there are some factors limiting a SyG defense?

I mean unless he put up a huge neon sign that said "free beer in the garage, help yourself", and then started blasting thirsty neighbors indiscriminately, I'd say there is zero chance he'll be convicted, save for violating some local noise ordinance?

Edited April 29, 2014 by lomatopo

[Berkshire]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

Reminds me of Thailand.

RIP young boy.

What?? This story has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand, yet you've managed to find a way to criticize. Why don't you just crawl back under your rock.

[Pimay1]

Here is an article from a local newspaper with a lot of details. Of course as always there are conflicting stories as there are in this article. It indicates the shooter and his comon law wife set a trap in the garage for an intruder and left the door open. Stupid is as stupid does. When someone does this the outcome is predictable. In my opinion they and the two intruders are all culpable. The intruders went into the garage at 12:30am. It apears that none of the four people were endowed with much commom sense. If I was on the jury I would vote to send the shooter and his comom law wife to prison and a five year suspended sentence for the other intruder who ran away.

I have no issues with shooting someone who breaks into my house with the intent to harm me and/or my family but this intent needs to be established first. A person should never start shooting randomly in the dark just because their house has been burglarized previously. The boys boys were wrong for going in the garage but the couple commited a bigger wrong by setting a trap and shoting the intruder without just cause.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-man-charged-with-deliberate-homicide-in-teen-s-shooting/article_f7551102-cf0e-11e3-9619-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

[neverdie]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

[Pimay1]

Surprised the home-owner was charged as Montana has a Stand your Ground law.

Maybe there is more to the situation?

Found this:

A western Montana man has been charged in the shooting death of a 17-year-old boy after prosecutors said he set a trap in his garage to catch any would-be burglars because he was frustrated over recent thefts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/teen-shot-killed-mans-garage-germany-23500791

Note that there was another intruder shooting in Billings the same day, and in that incident the victim was staying as a guest in the same house. He is expected to recover.

I don't know why "setting a trap" would be wrong after 2 burglaries in 3 weeks. According to the OP article, after the 2 burglaries, he installed motion detectors and screen surveillance. The alarm went off and he went to the garage.

So now installing an alarm system is setting a trap?

Installing an alarm system is not setting a trap. Putting a valuable item in a room or as in this case garage and leaving the door open would be setting a trap in my opinion. Who knows maybe the boys would not have entered the garage if the door was not open.

Pflager told police that she intentionally placed a purse in the garage “so they would take it,” and left the door open 5 1/2 feet. Then she placed a baby monitor in the garage and installed motion sensors outside.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Pimay1

[Pimay1]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

Sir you are totally wrong in your assumption. And it is called the right of the people to keep and bear arms. We all see harm in these types of actions. As my signature reads, We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics. But we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.

But I see you do support gun violence yourself and see no harm in rounding up people and shoting them. I would classify this as a trigger happy individual or in your own words a wacko.

[neverdie]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

Sir you are totally wrong in your assumption. And it is called the right of the people to keep and bear arms. We all see harm in these types of actions. As my signature reads, We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics. But we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.

But I see you do support gun violence yourself and see no harm in rounding up people and shoting them. I would classify this as a trigger happy individual or in your own words a wacko.

Joe average in the street has NO NEED to keep and bare arms, he just desires that. How many people need to die at the hands of trigger happy wackos?

I'm far from a whacko, carried a hand gun for the majority of my working life, day in, day out, I drew it thousands of times and only fired it twice (two separate occassions). I never needlessly killed anyone as I was highly trained in its use and possessed the ability to distinguish between when and when it shouldn't be fired.

I can assure you I never fired it into complete darkness without even identifying the target.

There's DEFINATELY a whacko here, it ain't me

Now off you go, try and justify this senseless killing amoungst you're gun hoe mates down the range, cowboy!

So anyway, is it 'Bare arms' or 'Bear Arms'. If it's the latter, I think the bears will have something to say about this.

Edited April 29, 2014 by neverdie

[NeverSure]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

"The right to bare arms." Should you always have to wear a long sleeved shirt?

In America, you can't shoot someone who's just in your yard. The person has to be threatening death or serious bodily injury. In most states, you can shoot someone who's wrongfully in your home, period.

If it turns out that the shooter set a trap by leaving a door open with an enticing item exposed, and then waited for someone to enter and shot him, the shooter is in trouble. Big trouble.

[lomatopo]

It apears that none of the four people were endowed with much commom sense.

Sorry but there is no IQ or common sense test required before purchasing a firearm, nor should there be. I mean it's not like driving a car or anything, just shoot it.

Unless there is a change of venue to New York City, no jury in Montana will convict this guy, especially given the deceased is a 'ferner. And he'll have great representation from the NRA. The prosecutor is wasting the tax-payers money on this one.

"The right to bare arms."

Well, that's so you can see my "guns". And it sure beats the right to arm bears.

Edited April 29, 2014 by lomatopo

[Som wat]

Yee har.

[neverdie]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

"The right to bare arms." Should you always have to wear a long sleeved shirt?

In America, you can't shoot someone who's just in your yard. The person has to be threatening death or serious bodily injury. In most states, you can shoot someone who's wrongfully in your home, period.

If it turns out that the shooter set a trap by leaving a door open with an enticing item exposed, and then waited for someone to enter and shot him, the shooter is in trouble. Big trouble.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. As for my case, a drunk teenager entered through a side door into my home in the middle of the nite, I was awake and had left the door closed but unlocked for a friend that was staying with us for a few days. The house we had at the time was almost mirror image of the place next door. Anyhow, the teenager was in my home, it was dark and I knew it was too early for my friend, anyway, I didn't rack the firearm and go out there shooting from the hip and the situation was resolved easily.

Surely any gun owner realises they should identify their target before pulling the trigger. Just ask Oscar Pistorious, he went off firing through a closed door or something, foolish indeed, some would even suggest murderous

[lomatopo]

Surely any gun owner realises they should identify their target before pulling the trigger.

So a drug-crazed, sex-fiend, with a knife enters my home yelling about gutting me, and raping my wife and children....

"Excuse me sir, may I see your ID?"

Sheesh, shoot first, clean up the mess later.

[Carmine6]

From reading the local paper, the issue seems to be he did not try to identify the guy or announce anything, but just shot blindly into the dark. Probably would be ok to do that inside the house, but in the garage where the door had been left open is probably where it crossed the line. If he'd made some attempt at a verbal warning and got no response then he'd have a better claim to feeling threatened. Or if he had actually seen the two guys and how they acted, or they'd run at him then it would be easier to claim self defense.

Also doesn't help that rather than trying to make things more secure, they went the other way of trying to invite someone to come rob them. Two guys breaking into your garage after midnight is one thing. Two guys walking into an open garage is another. It is more convincing to say I was worried for my family's safety and put an extra lock on there, but they still broke in, than to say we put stuff out there so they'd take it and left the door open.

Forgot the local paper link:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-man-charged-with-deliberate-homicide-in-teen-s-shooting/article_f7551102-cf0e-11e3-9619-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

Edited April 29, 2014 by Carmine6

[billywjr]

The kid broke into his house. The man was protecting his family. Itnisnlegal in the us to protect ur family if someone breaks into ur home. So funny how u hypocrites complain. What would u all do if a person has broken into ur home and u have a family to protect. U just let him walk in and do as he wishes? Plsssss. Put urself in his shoes before u make make and state stupid opinions.

[Pimay1]

Trigger Happy folk in United States. Dangerous place. People armed with high powered weapon, with little or no training and complete ignorance in how to handle potentially volatile situations. Yet another needless death. Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

I remember years ago, a drunk teen stumbled into my yard, completely oblivious to the fact he'd entered my property and not his friends (next door). Of course I challenged him verbally and th situation was resolved without even a harsh word, imagine if I came out blasting and asking questions later.

About time the right to bare arms is revoked and the gun lobiests rounded up and shot! I shall now take cover as the wackos unleash.

Firing 4 shots into the dark, reckless and indifferent. Somehow the American spin doctors for the right to carry arms (or whatever it's called) will see no harm with these types of actions.

Sir you are totally wrong in your assumption. And it is called the right of the people to keep and bear arms. We all see harm in these types of actions. As my signature reads, We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics. But we are encouraged to judge all gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.

But I see you do support gun violence yourself and see no harm in rounding up people and shoting them. I would classify this as a trigger happy individual or in your own words a wacko.

Joe average in the street has NO NEED to keep and bare arms, he just desires that. How many people need to die at the hands of trigger happy wackos?

I'm far from a whacko, carried a hand gun for the majority of my working life, day in, day out, I drew it thousands of times and only fired it twice (two separate occassions). I never needlessly killed anyone as I was highly trained in its use and possessed the ability to distinguish between when and when it shouldn't be fired.

I can assure you I never fired it into complete darkness without even identifying the target.

There's DEFINATELY a whacko here, it ain't me

Now off you go, try and justify this senseless killing amoungst you're gun hoe mates down the range, cowboy!

So anyway, is it 'Bare arms' or 'Bear Arms'. If it's the latter, I think the bears will have something to say about this.

I'm glad you are well versed in the proper use of a weapon. You are to be commended. I trust your comment about rounding people up and shooting them was only a flippant remark as you have indicated you are not a whacko. Now to your personal comment toward me.

There's DEFINATELY a whacko here, it ain't me

Now off you go, try and justify this senseless killing amoungst you're gun hoe mates down the range, cowboy!

Evidently you did not read post #12. Or maybe you did and you don't like anyone who advocates owning a weapon. To each his/her own.

Amemdment ll

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

bare:

naked, unclothed, undressed or uncovered

bear:

carry, bring, transport

Edited April 29, 2014 by Pimay1

[daoyai]

Hey billywjr please read the article before commenting it will save you "face".

[HeavyDrinker]

The Wild Wild West ! Still no gun laws ?

Reminds me of Thailand.

RIP young boy.

What?? This story has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand, yet you've managed to find a way to criticize. Why don't you just crawl back under your rock.

Blimey!! Oh Mighty Defender of all things Thai. Talk about over-reacting to an opinion....

[Rockhopper]

I'm shocked that the guy was charged. If the intruder was within the garage then the homeowner was within his rights to protect his family and property. There are many legal precedents to support his actions.

[DoctorG]

The kid broke into his house. The man was protecting his family. Itnisnlegal in the us to protect ur family if someone breaks into ur home. So funny how u hypocrites complain. What would u all do if a person has broken into ur home and u have a family to protect. U just let him walk in and do as he wishes? Plsssss. Put urself in his shoes before u make make and state stupid opinions.

Not really big on reading are you Billy?

[DoctorG]

It is BEAR. It's not difficult; think about it.

[spermwhale]

This is on thaivisa because........?

[JO1973]

Surprised the home-owner was charged as Montana has a Stand your Ground law.

Maybe there is more to the situation?

Found this:

A western Montana man has been charged in the shooting death of a 17-year-old boy after prosecutors said he set a trap in his garage to catch any would-be burglars because he was frustrated over recent thefts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/teen-shot-killed-mans-garage-germany-23500791

Note that there was another intruder shooting in Billings the same day, and in that incident the victim was staying as a guest in the same house. He is expected to recover.

Setting a trap for someone is against the law in every state since that could potentially hurt anyone whether they have permission to be on your property or not.