Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams held over Jean McConville murder

[macsuirtain]

I worked in Northern Ireland often during the troubled 70's and had the misfortune to see the results of IRA 'freedom fighting ' on more than one occasion. Anyone who believes such people are some kind of hero's or modern day Robin Hood's are naive, deluded and ignorant characters. Murdering, thieving butchers would be a more apt description.

During that period did you have an oppurtunity to see the results of UDA / UVF, British Army or RUC freedom fighting or enforcement aswell, or are you suffering from tunnel vision?

[macsuirtain]

Cant think of many bombings that 'targeted' innocents conducted by the P.I.R.A. In war however, there is unfortunately collateral.

I do remember a british parachute regiment that slaughtered innocent women and children outside their homes in derry. I dont remember any of them serving any time for their war crimes. I could go on list further examples, but im beyond that now at this stage.

Seems a lot of comments here are taking the guilty till proven innocent approach.

Comments mentioning some of the atrocities of war are fairly one sided. You cant forget the current form of the IRA are a product of the brutal and barbaric acts committed by the British Armed Forces in northern Ireland. Anything the IRA did was a reaction to injustices committed by foreign troops in their country. Labeling them as child murderers is a bit fresh, considering the british army are somewhat responsible for the deaths of people IN places like afghanistan today.

Didn't the IRA plant bombs to kill innocent men, women and children indiscriminately in N.I and the UK. ?

Is that what "the cause" hero's should do in your opinion ?

 

Targeting civilians by the IRA?

Harrods bombing 1983 (murdered civilans included 1 US citizen), Enniskillen 1987 and Omagh 1998 are just 3 of the more horrendous examples. So let's not be silly and claim that parailitaries did not target civilians.

Overall the IRA murdered 728 civilians during the Troubles. It should also be added that Protestant paramilitaries murdered 868 civilians. Civilian deaths attributed to the security forces was a regrettable 187, though some of these have been subsequently claimed as paramilitary members.

Armed insurgency and combating it is not a pretty activity but at least Northern Ireland has largely moved away from the horrors of the 1970's and 1980's. It will take several generations to remove the bitterness and anger held within the different communities, but normality is gradually returning.

It is no secret that both Adams and particularly McGuinness were active and senior players within PIRA with blood on their hands.But the same could be said for many of the first generation of Israeli leaders in relation to their insurgent activities prior to 1948.

If you want to resolve a conflict you have to suspend hostilities and deal with people who are not the most pleasant but need to be part of the deal if you want to make it work.Most conflicts are inherently political in nature and in their objectives. A solution has to be a political one. The military can merely hold the ring and attempt to minimize casualties and incidents, while waiting for a political solution to be arrived at.

FAir comment. but, the RIRA, who are more of a death squad than Freedom Fighters, are responsible for Omagh, not the PIRA. The PIRA are responsible for enniskillen, but they did not target civilians, it was a miscalcualtion and unfortunate. Tell me the British Army has never had a 'miscalculation' that resulted in death.

Worst thing Britain did tho was putting military personnel onto the streets on NI, it lead to several 'miscalcualtions'

Edited May 1, 2014 by macsuirtain

[folium]

Cant think of many bombings that 'targeted' innocents conducted by the P.I.R.A. In war however, there is unfortunately collateral.

I do remember a british parachute regiment that slaughtered innocent women and children outside their homes in derry. I dont remember any of them serving any time for their war crimes. I could go on list further examples, but im beyond that now at this stage.

Didn't the IRA plant bombs to kill innocent men, women and children indiscriminately in N.I and the UK. ?

Is that what "the cause" hero's should do in your opinion ?

 

Targeting civilians by the IRA?

Harrods bombing 1983 (murdered civilans included 1 US citizen), Enniskillen 1987 and Omagh 1998 are just 3 of the more horrendous examples. So let's not be silly and claim that parailitaries did not target civilians.

Overall the IRA murdered 728 civilians during the Troubles. It should also be added that Protestant paramilitaries murdered 868 civilians. Civilian deaths attributed to the security forces was a regrettable 187, though some of these have been subsequently claimed as paramilitary members.

Armed insurgency and combating it is not a pretty activity but at least Northern Ireland has largely moved away from the horrors of the 1970's and 1980's. It will take several generations to remove the bitterness and anger held within the different communities, but normality is gradually returning.

It is no secret that both Adams and particularly McGuinness were active and senior players within PIRA with blood on their hands.But the same could be said for many of the first generation of Israeli leaders in relation to their insurgent activities prior to 1948.

If you want to resolve a conflict you have to suspend hostilities and deal with people who are not the most pleasant but need to be part of the deal if you want to make it work.Most conflicts are inherently political in nature and in their objectives. A solution has to be a political one. The military can merely hold the ring and attempt to minimize casualties and incidents, while waiting for a political solution to be arrived at.

FAir comment. Worst thing Britain did tho was putting military personnel onto the streets on NI.

The military went in to protect the Catholic communities in Belfast and the Bogside in August 1969 as the RUC had lost control. There was no alternative to restore law and order at the time.

[macsuirtain]

@ Folium,

And some protecting they did!!!

How many civilians did they shoot in the back as they fled?

[folium]

Very powerful interview with the son of the murdered Jean McConville. Really underlines the nature of terrorism and the lingering after-effects of the Troubles.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27234105

[folium]

@ Folium,

And some protecting they did!!!

How many civilians did they shoot in the back as they fled?

I think you are muddling up the Army intervention in August 1969, which successfully brought the sustained period of anti-Catholic rioting and destruction to an end (with no deaths resulting from Army activity), with the disgraceful events of "Bloody Sunday" in January1972 when 14 civilans were shot by 1Para.

[dginoob]

macsuirtain - apologist for terrorists, torturers and murderers. The PIRA killed HUNDREDS of innocents, including many of their own. To say they never targeted civilians is a disgraceful lie and rewriting of history.

I would love to see both Gerry and Martin face the justice they deserve but I have zero faith in our Justice system now. Gerry Adams IRA Solictor Barra McGrory is now head of the PPS in NI. Another sop to the IRA to ensure their commitment to the 'peace process'. There will be no justice. The whole process is an absolute disgrace and an affront to justice.

D

[I Like Thai]

Never liked Jerry Adams, always something about him seemed false. If he was involved in the murder of Jean McConville, then I hope he is held to account.

This incident below in 1972 is what escalated the issues in Northern Ireland into a war.

It took 38 years before the British admitted fault

[folium]

Cant think of many bombings that 'targeted' innocents conducted by the P.I.R.A. In war however, there is unfortunately collateral.

I do remember a british parachute regiment that slaughtered innocent women and children outside their homes in derry. I dont remember any of them serving any time for their war crimes. I could go on list further examples, but im beyond that now at this stage.

Didn't the IRA plant bombs to kill innocent men, women and children indiscriminately in N.I and the UK. ?

Is that what "the cause" hero's should do in your opinion ?

 

Targeting civilians by the IRA?

Harrods bombing 1983 (murdered civilans included 1 US citizen), Enniskillen 1987 and Omagh 1998 are just 3 of the more horrendous examples. So let's not be silly and claim that parailitaries did not target civilians.

Overall the IRA murdered 728 civilians during the Troubles. It should also be added that Protestant paramilitaries murdered 868 civilians. Civilian deaths attributed to the security forces was a regrettable 187, though some of these have been subsequently claimed as paramilitary members.

Armed insurgency and combating it is not a pretty activity but at least Northern Ireland has largely moved away from the horrors of the 1970's and 1980's. It will take several generations to remove the bitterness and anger held within the different communities, but normality is gradually returning.

It is no secret that both Adams and particularly McGuinness were active and senior players within PIRA with blood on their hands.But the same could be said for many of the first generation of Israeli leaders in relation to their insurgent activities prior to 1948.

If you want to resolve a conflict you have to suspend hostilities and deal with people who are not the most pleasant but need to be part of the deal if you want to make it work.Most conflicts are inherently political in nature and in their objectives. A solution has to be a political one. The military can merely hold the ring and attempt to minimize casualties and incidents, while waiting for a political solution to be arrived at.

FAir comment. but, the RIRA, who are more of a death squad than Freedom Fighters, are responsible for Omagh, not the PIRA. The PIRA are responsible for enniskillen, but they did not target civilians, it was a miscalcualtion and unfortunate. Tell me the British Army has never had a 'miscalculation' that resulted in death.

Worst thing Britain did tho was putting military personnel onto the streets on NI, it lead to several 'miscalcualtions'

Sorry but you are not correct.

Try the Kingsmill Massacre in January 1976, when PIRA murdered 10 Protestant workers returning home from work. Outright targeting and murder of civilians unconnected to the security forces as an act of intimidation and terror.

I have not said that the security forces are innocent, Bloody Sunday being a classic example, but you cannot reasonably claim that PIRA never targeted civilians. How about Jean McConville? PIRA has already admitted murdering 13 of the "Disappeared", many of whom were civilians.

Edited May 1, 2014 by folium

[khunken]

Dislike, hate & murder accusations are not proof of guilt.

Yes, Adams was a member of the PIRA and no doubt he has blood on his hands - like others in the IRA, Loyalist militias and the British army. If the case against him holds up in court - he should be jailed for life. Otherwise he should be left alone.

BTW Adams has blood on his hands, should he be jailed just for that? I know of untouchables (Blair & Bush for example) with an awful lot more blood on their hands.

[Chicog]

I liked Shoot to Kill.

[Morakot]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

Freedom fighter????????

You mean TERRORIST!!!!

Yes, a former terrorist, who immensely contributed to the current peace agreement.

There are no blameless groups on any side, including the British government.

[JetsetBkk]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

I didn't realise you did sarcasm, Harry.

[PiPiFFS]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

This sorry excuse for a man isn't a freedom fighter he was and is a gutless, spineless and cowardly terrorists that ordered a mother of ten to be dragged from her home at night in front of her children, driven away, tortured and then shot in the back of the head and buried. What a brave and fearless fighter he was. And the reason this pathetic excuse for a man ordering this was the woman had the common human decency to go and give help to a British soldier shot by a cowardly associate of Adams.

Brave doesn't ever come into it with the cowardly IRA. Just look how they screamed blue murder when the SAS were sent in and shot them rather than arrest them.

Blair was nothing more than a surrender monkey and didn't solve the Irish troubles. He just handed them shed loads of money to stop bombing

[harryfrompattaya]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

I hope you meant this as a joke, if not i should like to meet you to sort this out with you.

When and where I bet you do not like Gandhi or Ben-Gurion or even George Washington,

England is finished as a world power get over it

It is a homeland now for Moslems too bad for the English

Edited May 1, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[GentlemanJim]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

I hope you meant this as a joke, if not i should like to meet you to sort this out with you.

When and where I bet you do not like Gandhi or Ben-Gurion or even George Washington,

England is finished has a world power get over it

This is nothing to do with England being a world power or not, stop trying to deflect it. This is about you feeling terrible because a 'wonderful man' in your opinion happens to be a cold blooded murderer who apart from being a murderer himself, orchestrated the deaths of many many innocents as a terrorist leader. I wish I had had the opportunity like you to sit and have lunch with him............... so I could have stuck the cheese knife in his chest.

[harryfrompattaya]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

I hope you meant this as a joke, if not i should like to meet you to sort this out with you.

When and where I bet you do not like Gandhi or Ben-Gurion or even George Washington,

England is finished has a world power get over it

This is nothing to do with England being a world power or not, stop trying to deflect it. This is about you feeling terrible because a 'wonderful man' in your opinion happens to be a cold blooded murderer who apart from being a murderer himself, orchestrated the deaths of many many innocents as a terrorist leader. I wish I had had the opportunity like you to sit and have lunch with him............... so I could have stuck the cheese knife in his chest.

Well it was very easy meeting him I told I was a reporter for a newspaper and he set a lunch appointment with me

You should have done the same and you could have given him the knife as you say.

I met with fools tell them I was newspaper reporter

[LomSak27]

Yes Gerry’s a terrorist. However if you say that you then have to say the Northern Ireland constabulary was a terrorist gang and start prosecting, from the top.

That’s not going to happen is it

zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Morakot]

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams held over 1972 Jean McConville killing

Northern Ireland police say 65-year-old man detained in investigation into one of most notorious murders of the Troubles

Henry McDonald and Nicholas Watt theguardian.com, Thursday 1 May 2014 01.19 BST

Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin leader and chief architect of the Irish republican movement's peace strategy, has been arrested by police over a notorious Troubles murder that has haunted his political career for decades.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/30/gerry-adams-held-jean-mconville-killing

[folium]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

This sorry excuse for a man isn't a freedom fighter he was and is a gutless, spineless and cowardly terrorists that ordered a mother of ten to be dragged from her home at night in front of her children, driven away, tortured and then shot in the back of the head and buried. What a brave and fearless fighter he was. And the reason this pathetic excuse for a man ordering this was the woman had the common human decency to go and give help to a British soldier shot by a cowardly associate of Adams.

Brave doesn't ever come into it with the cowardly IRA. Just look how they screamed blue murder when the SAS were sent in and shot them rather than arrest them.

Blair was nothing more than a surrender monkey and didn't solve the Irish troubles. He just handed them shed loads of money to stop bombing

Jean McConville never helped a wound British soldier as no soldier was injured near the Divis Flats prior to her abduction. This was just a story spread after the event to give a "reason".

McConville had the misfortune to be a Protestant born, converted to Catholocism, widow living on her own in the staunchly Republican Divis Flats, and had only lived there for a short time having been chased out of her previous home by Loyalist extremists.

Wrong person, wrong place, wrong time. PIRA in their search for a possible informant murdered a mother of 10, and the residual fear and intimidation prevents justice being applied to this day, see the link to McConville's son's interview on BBC.

[Lite Beer]

Gerry Adams' arrest praised by murder victim's family
By Peter Taggart, Chelsea J. Carter and Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

Belfast, Northern Ireland (CNN) -- Gerry Adams' arrest in connection with the 1972 abduction and killing of a mother of 10 by the Irish Republican Army is being praised by the family of the victim.

"The McConville family is glad to see police are taking our mother's murder seriously and are doing all they can to bring the people that murdered her to justice," said Michael McConville, the son of Jean McConville.
"An awful lot of people in the north and south of Ireland are glad to see Gerry Adams being arrested for this."

Read More: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/europe/n-ireland-gerry-adams-police/index.html

-- CNN 2014-05-01

[Morakot]

What are the Boston tapes?

A key part of the investigation into the abduction and murder of Jean McConville are tapes that were held in a US college.

1 May 2014 Last updated at 12:58

The 'Belfast Project' was launched in 2001 and was designed to become an oral history of the Troubles.

Former loyalist and republican paramilitaries gave a series of candid interviews that chronicled their involvement in the Troubles.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27238797

[allanos]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Nelson Mandela would be such an example.

There is another South African example in the person of a certain Robert McBride, who carried out the Magoo's Bar bombings in Amanzimtoti, in what is now Kwa-Zulu Natal Province. He was pardoned and freed, and has been subsequently held many senior positions in quasi-Government organisations, ever since, despite a continuing record of misdemeanours and accusations of drunkenness, incompetence and corruption. McBride is reviled by the "white" community in the country, and applauded by the ANC Government and its supporters for what he did as a "freedom fighter" against apartheid.

Whether one "likes" Jerry Adams or not, it is unfair to pre-judge his case in this murder arrest. Let's wait for the evidence to be brought before a competent court.

[folium]

Thinking about Gerry Adams reminds me that the last time he was "lifted" by the NI police was in the aftermath of the La Mon Hotel bombing in 1978.

A blast bomb attached to 4 fuel canisters filled with a mix of sugar and petrol to produce a napalm-effect fireball that incinerated 12 civilians at a dinner dance in the hotel and a further 30 civilians were seriously injured. So much for PIRA not targeting civilans. The reason Adams was lifted was that he was a senior member of PIRA's "Belfast Brigade" and thus highly likely to have been in the loop re this attack.

[Foxter]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

Freedom fighter????????

You mean TERRORIST!!!!

Looks like we have an IRA sympathiser here........ Child murderers.... Should never have been released, should have ALL been locked up for life and Addams should have been the first.

I will never forgive Tony Blair for apologising to those people.

Disgusting..... I hope he dies in the Maze.

Sorry I just like freedom fighters

One persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist

Depends on your views

Nelson Mandela was a freedom fighter / terrorist

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Foxter]

One thing Adams never mentions , when he first joined the IRA. As a young member he was shot by loyalists almost died

His life was saved by a soldier. .

That soldier, many years later, lost his legs in a car bomb in England by the IRA

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited May 1, 2014 by Foxter

[folium]

One thing Adams never mentions , when he first joined the IRA. As a young member he was shot by loyalists almost died

His life was saved by a soldier. .

That soldier, many years later, lost his legs in a car bomb in England by the IRA

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Adams was targeted by the UDA in an attempted killing in 1984. Who was the soldier who lost his legs in a car bomb in England?

[Foxter]

It was a Cpl Mudd. Who came across him and gave first aid

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[MAJIC]

Gerry Adams was always the slippery, run with the Fox and Hunt with the Hounds,type of devious smarmy Politicitians and mouthpeace of the IRA, now he and Martin Mcguinness (the other half of the duo) are desperately trying to change History,by talking up a good story,which never existed in the first place. Freedom fighters? what a bitter joke. There is a lot that could be said,but maybe Thai Visa is not the ideal platform! One thing has been clarified beyond doubt,they can say what they want,Sein Fein was well known as the Political arm of the IRI Foot Soldier,the back peddling and denials were in evidence today on UK News programmes.

[MAJIC]

I feel terrible I met and had lunch with Gerry Adams about 15 years ago what a wonderful man a truth freedom fighter

Freedom fighter????????

You mean TERRORIST!!!!

Looks like we have an IRA sympathiser here........ Child murderers.... Should never have been released, should have ALL been locked up for life and Addams should have been the first.

I will never forgive Tony Blair for apologising to those people.

Disgusting..... I hope he dies in the Maze.

Sorry I just like freedom fighters

You are not sorry at all, otherwise you would not have made such a ridiculous,uninformed statement!