Brunei introduces death by stoning for gay sex under strict sharia law

[Jingthing]

Oy vey, they're giving Iran a run for their money in the most horrendous nation for the gays contest!

The stoning also to be applied to:

rape, adultery, sodomy, extra-marital sex, gay sex, insulting the Quran or Hadith, blasphemy, declaring oneself a prophet or non-Muslim, and murder.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/04/16/Brunei-about-to-legalize-stoning-for-gay-sex/6601397673459/#ixzz30SByObGp

[Showbags]

How big are the stones exactly....

[Showbags]

If you go there as a visitor and are not married....will you get done ?

[Jingthing]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[isanbirder]

Nasty, but for me ironic.

Brunei was the place where I and a much younger Thai friend (not my boyfriend, but it would have looked like it) were entertained (in the best restaurant in the place) by a fine Muslim gentleman, who introduced us to all the Brunei glitterati (the Ambassador to this, the Minister for that). My friend and I were dressed very casually (shorts and T-shirt) while the men were in suits and the ladies in evening dress or Muslim dress. The following day, quite by chance, we came face-to-face with the Sultan, who was on an inspection tour of the market.

Memories are made of this!

Edited May 1, 2014 by isanbirder

[cornishcarlos]

Alright, give me two with points, two flats and a packet of gravel...

Sorry, couldn't resist..

[onthemoon]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

I'm not sure why you blame religion now. There are many Christian organisations who are vehemently against homosexuality, I met Jewish people in New York who were against homosexuality, and I don't know whether Uganda is ruled by any religion.

This is a political issue. Do not make start an anti-Muslim campaign.

[onthemoon]

Alright, give me two with points, two flats and a packet of gravel...

Sorry, couldn't resist..

You'll get them. Thrown at you at high speed. This is what you asked for, right?

[Jingthing]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

I'm not sure why you blame religion now. There are many Christian organisations who are vehemently against homosexuality, I met Jewish people in New York who were against homosexuality, and I don't know whether Uganda is ruled by any religion.

This is a political issue. Do not make start an anti-Muslim campaign.

Sorry. But I disagree.

There is religious dogma in the FUNDAMENTALIST Christian religion for example that could be used to justify a Christian THEOCRATIC state murdering gay people for being gay. I suppose some of the African Christian dominated states might be doing death penalty for gays ... so yes Christianity could be involved with this as well, but not by stoning. Stoning is especially disgusting, and yes it is also TORTURE.

The one mildly theocratic modern Jewish state in the world while denying gays equal civil rights, hosts a city that is one of the top gay travel destinations in the world and certainly doesn't codify DEATH to gays by stoning or anything else.

Other religions like Hindu dominated states may criminalize homosexuality, but that's not the same thing as the death penalty.

Now we have multiple ISLAMIC theocratic states with this kind of RELIGIOUS dogma codified into state law.

I don't understand why you want to obfuscate the truth about this. I really don't. Maybe you can explain, because I don't get it.

Rationalization based on fundamentalist religious dogma is MOST CERTAINLY involved in this. That is simply the truth.

Don't get me wrong. I would agree we shouldn't "hate" all Muslims just based on their religion, which most are born into. That is very wrong. But for religious Muslims (and Christians or any religious people) who SUPPORT death and torture death to people just for being gay, sorry, if that isn't a reason to hate someone, what is? Of course hatred isn't productive, but somhow these forces of barbarism in the world which don't belong in these MODERN TIMES need to be FOUGHT AGAINST and aggressively so. Turning the other cheek doesn't cut it when they want to MURDER you just for who you are.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[WitawatWatawit]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

I'm not sure why you blame religion now. There are many Christian organisations who are vehemently against homosexuality, I met Jewish people in New York who were against homosexuality, and I don't know whether Uganda is ruled by any religion.

This is a political issue. Do not make start an anti-Muslim campaign.

It is not political. Brunei is a Muslim state, not a secular state, and Sharia law is Islamic law.

I also don't see too many Christian religions using their influence to introduce vicious murder as a penalty for certain social issues that many of us regard as rather benign.

I do, however, agree that we should take care not to launch an anti-Muslim campaign on the basis of one or two countries' evilness.

[nidieunimaitre]

To the OP.

Please do not bash Iran.

Iran does not stone gays.

Because their former president said during a tour in the US that Iran does not have gays.

And who would doubt the words of 'what was his name again'?

[nidieunimaitre]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

I'm not sure why you blame religion now. There are many Christian organisations who are vehemently against homosexuality, I met Jewish people in New York who were against homosexuality, and I don't know whether Uganda is ruled by any religion.

This is a political issue. Do not make start an anti-Muslim campaign.

It is not political. Brunei is a Muslim state, not a secular state, and Sharia law is Islamic law.

I also don't see too many Christian religions using their influence to introduce vicious murder as a penalty for certain social issues that many of us regard as rather benign.

I do, however, agree that we should take care not to launch an anti-Muslim campaign on the basis of one or two countries' evilness.

"One or two countries"?

Not realy good at mathematics, are we?

[Jingthing]

Yeah, it's more than two countries.

I just read in Northern Nigeria there is the death penalty for gays under ISLAMIC Sharia law.

Not demonizing Muslims is one thing, but sorry, we can't live with SHARIA law and Sharia law is fundamentalist Islam. I mean that LITERALLY.

This isn't an easy dance when you want to be liberal.

I realize this doesn't sound polite.

Not sure this can be polite.

How can you be polite when a policy threatens to murder you?

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[nidieunimaitre]

How big are the stones exactly....

I don't know but I think part of the idea is to create GREAT suffering before the actual death. What century are we in?

BTW, is there any other religion other than Islam which still does stuff like this as a matter of policy? If so, please advise. If not, is it fair to conclude that the religion of Islam when taken fundamentally is the most NOXIOUS to gay people, hands down?

For a liberally minded person like myself, this is a little sticky. We strive to be "tolerant" of all kinds of diversity. But to a situation like this, how can you be "tolerant" of such utter BARBARISM? Is there any other possible moral and ethical response other than TOTAL CONDEMNATION?

Clash of civilizations? Maybe so. I know what side I'm on then.

I'm not sure why you blame religion now. There are many Christian organisations who are vehemently against homosexuality, I met Jewish people in New York who were against homosexuality, and I don't know whether Uganda is ruled by any religion.

This is a political issue. Do not make start an anti-Muslim campaign.

It is not political. Brunei is a Muslim state, not a secular state, and Sharia law is Islamic law.

I also don't see too many Christian religions using their influence to introduce vicious murder as a penalty for certain social issues that many of us regard as rather benign.

I do, however, agree that we should take care not to launch an anti-Muslim campaign on the basis of one or two countries' evilness.

QUOTE: Sharia law is Islamic law

Yes, but of course islamic law is not sharia law

Similar to:

Bush and Blair are christians.

But of course christians are not Bush and Blair.

My conclusion: I accept, and even try to respect (...) all religious views, as long as they are not imposed on non believers.

Euhhhhh, replace "non believers" by "those who try to believe in humans".

[WitawatWatawit]

I was speaking colloquially. Don't nitpick. There are more important issues here.

[Jingthing]

It is not political. Brunei is a Muslim state, not a secular state, and Sharia law is Islamic law.

I also don't see too many Christian religions using their influence to introduce vicious murder as a penalty for certain social issues that many of us regard as rather benign.

I do, however, agree that we should take care not to launch an anti-Muslim campaign on the basis of one or two countries' evilness.

QUOTE: Sharia law is Islamic law

Yes, but of course islamic law is not sharia law

Similar to:

Bush and Blair are christians.

But of course christians are not Bush and Blair.

My conclusion: I accept, and even try to respect (...) all religious views, as long as they are not imposed on non believers.

Euhhhhh, replace "non believers" by "those who try to believe in humans".

This is interesting.

Sharia law? What is it?

Sharia, or Islamic law, influences the legal code in most Muslim countries. A movement to allow sharia to govern personal status law, a set of regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is even expanding into the West. "There are so many varying interpretations of what sharia actually means that in some places, it can be incorporated into political systems relatively easily," says CFR's Steven A. Cook. Sharia's influence on both personal status law and criminal law is highly controversial. Some interpretations are used to justify cruel punishments such as amputation and stoning, as well as unequal treatment of women in inheritance, dress, and independence. The debate is growing as to whether sharia can coexist with secularism, democracy, or even modernity, an idea that is being tested by several countries in the Middle East looking to rewrite their constitutions.

http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034

So I guess the answer in Brunei to the question can Sharia can coexist with secularism, democracy, and modernity is NOT THERE!

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Stay on topic.

[nidieunimaitre]

There is not 1 single religious rule that was written by a god.

All the rules were written by humans.

Humans that lived hundreds of years ago.

Reasonably speaking, nobody can be bound by those - always contradicting and unclear - rules, at least, not against their own beliefs.

But some peoplewant to impose those rules on others.

If the results were not so horrible, it would be funny: first invent a god, next dream up some god inspired rules, next disagree about the rules / try to outsmarten them, next prosecute all those that do not live by those rules.

And no, I do not go for cultural relativism.

There is GOOD and BAD.

There is civilisation and there is lack of civilisation.

And yes, this is a tricky and very difficult issue.

By the way: How many civilisations even RAISE these questions? Not saying "finding the answers"!

[nidieunimaitre]

And sorry, jingthing, but I have to ask.

In your OP you quoted 10 (ten) reasons for being stoned in Brunei.

1 reason related to gay sex.

9 reasons related to anyone.

10 bad reasons for sure, no doubt about that.

But...... why did you post this in the gay forum? 9 against 1!

As I said, sorry for asking, but I can't help it.

[Tywais]

In case some missed the world news topic - May 1st start of Sharia law implementation

[Jingthing]

And sorry, jingthing, but I have to ask.

In your OP you quoted 10 (ten) reasons for being stoned in Brunei.

1 reason related to gay sex.

9 reasons related to anyone.

10 bad reasons for sure, no doubt about that.

But...... why did you post this in the gay forum? 9 against 1!

As I said, sorry for asking, but I can't help it.

There is no where else a member could have posted this WORLD NEWS item. So if I was going to do that on THIS forum, of course naturally the emphasis would be on the gay part. If you don't understand that, perhaps read the forum rules. Also no I hadn't seen the other world news item, BUT notice the gay part wasn't mentioned in that. Cheers.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[nidieunimaitre]

And sorry, jingthing, but I have to ask.

In your OP you quoted 10 (ten) reasons for being stoned in Brunei.

1 reason related to gay sex.

9 reasons related to anyone.

10 bad reasons for sure, no doubt about that.

But...... why did you post this in the gay forum? 9 against 1!

As I said, sorry for asking, but I can't help it.

There is no where else a member could have posted this WORLD NEWS item. So if I was going to do that on THIS forum, of course naturally the emphasis would be on the gay part. If you don't understand that, perhaps read the forum rules. Also no I hadn't seen the other world news item, BUT notice the gay part wasn't mentioned in that. Cheers.

I consider this world news, to be posted on the world news subforum.

But never mind.

[Tywais]

And sorry, jingthing, but I have to ask.

In your OP you quoted 10 (ten) reasons for being stoned in Brunei.

1 reason related to gay sex.

9 reasons related to anyone.

10 bad reasons for sure, no doubt about that.

But...... why did you post this in the gay forum? 9 against 1!

As I said, sorry for asking, but I can't help it.

There is no where else a member could have posted this WORLD NEWS item. So if I was going to do that on THIS forum, of course naturally the emphasis would be on the gay part. If you don't understand that, perhaps read the forum rules. Also no I hadn't seen the other world news item, BUT notice the gay part wasn't mentioned in that. Cheers.

I consider this world news, to be posted on the world news subforum.

But never mind.

I recently pinned an older topic by request that covers the policies of this forum. Note this specific post

[saakura]

Stoning in this day and age? Should be condemned along with other forms of torture like waterboarding which some countries practice.

[nidieunimaitre]

And sorry, jingthing, but I have to ask.

In your OP you quoted 10 (ten) reasons for being stoned in Brunei.

1 reason related to gay sex.

9 reasons related to anyone.

10 bad reasons for sure, no doubt about that.

But...... why did you post this in the gay forum? 9 against 1!

As I said, sorry for asking, but I can't help it.

There is no where else a member could have posted this WORLD NEWS item. So if I was going to do that on THIS forum, of course naturally the emphasis would be on the gay part. If you don't understand that, perhaps read the forum rules. Also no I hadn't seen the other world news item, BUT notice the gay part wasn't mentioned in that. Cheers.

I consider this world news, to be posted on the world news subforum.

But never mind.

I recently pinned an older topic by request that covers the policies of this forum. Note this specific post

I am willing to learn.

Please explain more.

I looked at the link you provided, I could not find anything there, but I must admit: I blocked IJUSTWANNATEACH, and I am not going to unblock him.

[sustento]

I am willing to learn.

Please explain more.

I looked at the link you provided, I could not find anything there, but I must admit: I blocked IJUSTWANNATEACH, and I am not going to unblock him.

"My first addendum to the subforum guidelines here. Topics of a gay-related nature are allowed here (as are women-related topics in the lady's subforum and teaching/education-related topics in the teaching subforum) without the need to be Thai-related. Posters who only post to inquire about this will be presumed to be trolling and warned (at least). Please check subforum guidelines carefully before posting, and enjoy posting on Thaivisa. "

There's no point in blocking IJWT. He's long gone.

[sustento]

I am willing to learn.

Please explain more.

I looked at the link you provided, I could not find anything there, but I must admit: I blocked IJUSTWANNATEACH, and I am not going to unblock him.

"My first addendum to the subforum guidelines here. Topics of a gay-related nature are allowed here (as are women-related topics in the lady's subforum and teaching/education-related topics in the teaching subforum) without the need to be Thai-related. Posters who only post to inquire about this will be presumed to be trolling and warned (at least). Please check subforum guidelines carefully before posting, and enjoy posting on Thaivisa. "

There's no point in blocking IJWT. He's long gone.

WOW. this is all going above my head.

Somebody please tell me what i did wrong? In plain language? Without referring to rules?

And about IJWT: I hope I contributed in his disappearence of this forum.

You said:

"I consider this world news, to be posted on the world news subforum.

But never mind."

It's not possible for ordinary posters to start a thread on world news and as it's gay related it's ok to post it here regardless of the fact that it's not Thai related.

[nidieunimaitre]

Thanks Sustendo, I think I understand now.

Thaivisa forum has many subfora.

Some subfora allow simple members to start a new thread.

Some subfora do not allow simple members to start a new thread.

Simple members need to know this. Simple members need to know their place. This is Thailand after all.

Rules have to be observed, if not, what is the point of having rules.

I do not post often.

I do not think my postcount will increase much in the future.

I will stay logged in however, since that gives me the privelege of being able to block certain posters.

[Tywais]

A bunch of off topic, argumentative posts removed.

[uptheos]

Stoning in this day and age? Should be condemned along with other forms of torture like waterboarding which some countries practice.

Stoning isn't torture, it's a death sentence.