E-cigarettes just as deadly as normal smokes, experts warn

[Shurup]

Won't be surprised if the local tobacco company sponsored this "research", there is so much misleading and wrong info in the OP that I'm not even going to start pointing out all the BS.

Just a few days ago I've seen in the BBC news something about the e-cigs being marketed as smoking aids and they shown some statistics about number of smokers kicking the habit by switching to e-cigs.

[boomerangutang]

How about comparing them to taking a walk in Bangkok? I was waiting for a bus along a regular road in Bkk, and nearly passed out from fumes. You can taste the smog. A Canadian friend, in his 50's, died within five years of moving to Bkk, of lung failure. He didn't smoke and didn't have a history of lung problems. Another buddy would have to wipe black residual stuff off his face, each time he traveled by bus in Bangkok.

I think all users of ciggs, pseudo ciggs, caffeine drinks, msg, white sugar and fermented sugar drinks (alcohol) should pay premium taxes - to offset jacked up prices the rest of us are required to pay via taxes (to take care of their ill-health) and higher health insurance.

A person should have the right to debilitate him/herself, but don't require that others (who live cleanly) pay for it, directly or indirectly.

They do pay already. Quite handsomely....

Just imagine though if everyone stopped smoking and switched to e cigs. Everyone would pay higher taxes to fill the gap. Smokers are subsidising your pension and your health care. Duh....

Speak for yourself. I have no pension and no subsidized health care, and won't have later. I pay my own way 100%.

In most countries where tobacco products are heavily taxed, under the guise of paying for health care, the tax revenues exceed the estimated costs the health services incur due to tobacco related illnesses, by a very significant amount.

In other words, smokers are subsidising health care, not the other way round as you suggest... Your "jacked up prices" are a direct result of the insatiable greed of big pharma and insurance companies.

I agree about Big Pharma and insurance companies. There's gargantuan greed and bilking there. However, there are a lot of peripheral expenses related to smokers. To name a few: Smoker's lounges, ventilation systems, less rooms and staff available in clinics/hospitals, because smokers take up space, ...to name a few. Also, when it comes time for organ transplants; smokers, who are usually older and sometimes richer, are ahead of the queue compared to poorer people and kids.

I easily quit smoking 7 months a go after 30 +++ years.

Best decision ever.

Good for you. My mom got me started at 11 years old. I quit 10 years later. Edited May 4, 2014 by boomerangutang

[Hellhound66]

This moron is mixing up Propylene Oxide with Propylene Glycol, two entirely different substances - and that is why after 20 years here I have not bothered to learn the language. There is nothing that comes out of a Thai person's mouth that I would believe - Ever. Love the food though - even if it is laced with carcinogenic pesticides :-)

Edited May 4, 2014 by Hellhound66

[PostmanPat]

Staggering! Once again Thailand stands totally opposite to the rest of the civilised world! E Cigarettes banned but normal cigarettes OK? Thats like banning water but instead offering people more beer!! I just returned from UK where my son and brother in law, both previously heavy smokers now use E Cigarettes and both of them both look and feel healthier in many respects.

In the UK E Cigarettes are everywhere, openly encouraged as an alternative to cancer stick cigarettes. I suspect this trashy attitude in Thailand is articles commissioned by the tobacco retailers designed to try to scare people into continuing to get cancer by smoking their product.

I almost couldnt believe my eyes when I read this, astonishing and quite ridiculous !!

[WoopyDoo]

Won't be surprised if the local tobacco company sponsored this "research", there is so much misleading and wrong info in the OP that I'm not even going to start pointing out all the BS.

Just a few days ago I've seen in the BBC news something about the e-cigs being marketed as smoking aids and they shown some statistics about number of smokers kicking the habit by switching to e-cigs.

In the UK the amount of smokers that have turned to e-cigs between August last year and march this year has risen by 450% and that is just 7 months.

The more people that smoke e-cigs, the more they convert other smokers of tobacco cigs, so it is having a snowball effect.

Even in Germany, the government have made it legal to smoke e-cigs in bars and in the workplace.

They will be taking over as the dominant smoke within a couple of years, and the governments, tobacco industry and EU legislators are very twitchy about the loss of revenue..

There are just too many arguments and provable facts in favour of the e-cig lobby for it to be ignored and soon western governments will tax it like tobacco eventually and a 10ml e-liquid bottle will likely cost the same as a packet of cigs, and in the UK that is more than 10 USD a pack... However, e-liquid is particularly simple to make and ingredients are simple to acquire.

My wife says that the new legislation will be ignored by the people... they may make a couple of examples by jailing a couple here and there, but that will be for products actively containing nicotine at point of sale such as e-liquid or ready to go shishin cigs.

I am going ahead with my website... The market is booming here.

Edited May 4, 2014 by WoopyDoo

[nisakiman]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

[Prbkk]

Staggering! Once again Thailand stands totally opposite to the rest of the civilised world! E Cigarettes banned but normal cigarettes OK? Thats like banning water but instead offering people more beer!! I just returned from UK where my son and brother in law, both previously heavy smokers now use E Cigarettes and both of them both look and feel healthier in many respects.

In the UK E Cigarettes are everywhere, openly encouraged as an alternative to cancer stick cigarettes. I suspect this trashy attitude in Thailand is articles commissioned by the tobacco retailers designed to try to scare people into continuing to get cancer by smoking their product.

I almost couldnt believe my eyes when I read this, astonishing and quite ridiculous !!

Same thing in France: e cig stores everywhere. Even the last Gitanes factory in France has closed. More than 20% of former smokers have quit to use e devices.

[hyperdimension]

Nicotine isn't particularly harmful as far as these things go, it may even have benefits.

You are wrong in saying that nicotine isn't very harmful. It is more toxic to the human body than cocaine.

See Nicotine poisoning. Here's an excerpt:

A person can overdose on nicotine through a combination of nicotine patches, nicotine gum, nicotine inhaler cartridges and/or tobacco smoking at the same time.^[15][16] Ingestion of nicotine pharmaceuticals, tobacco products, or nicotine containing plants may also lead to poisoning.^[4][5][6] Smoking excessive amounts of tobacco has also led to poisoning; a case was reported where two brothers smoked 17 and 18 pipes of tobacco in succession and were both fatally poisoned.^[2] Spilling an extremely high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in intoxication or even death since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following skin contact.^[17][18]

It's best to simply quit. Cannabis is far less harmful, especially if you use a vaporizer, like these two that I've tried, the Volcano and Arizer solo:

Edited May 4, 2014 by hyperdimension

[ijwelch]

Shame on the Sunday Nation for printing this rubbish with no counter-argument or investigation. Only thing they're good for is regurgitating yesterdays Associated Press news.

[Prbkk]

Nicotine isn't particularly harmful as far as these things go, it may even have benefits.

You are wrong in saying that nicotine isn't very harmful. It is more toxic to the human body than cocaine.

See Nicotine poisoning. Here's an excerpt:

A person can overdose on nicotine through a combination of nicotine patches, nicotine gum, nicotine inhaler cartridges and/or tobacco smoking at the same time.^{%5B15%5D%5B16%5D} Ingestion of nicotine pharmaceuticals, tobacco products, or nicotine containing plants may also lead to poisoning.^{%5B4%5D%5B5%5D%5B6%5D} Smoking excessive amounts of tobacco has also led to poisoning; a case was reported where two brothers smoked 17 and 18 pipes of tobacco in succession and were both fatally poisoned.^%5B2%5D Spilling an extremely high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in intoxication or even death since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following skin contact.^{%5B17%5D%5B18%5D}

It's best to simply quit. Cannabis is far less harmful, especially if you use a vaporizer.

Many people use e cigs as a path to reducing or eliminating nicotine completely.

[Shurup]

Won't be surprised if the local tobacco company sponsored this "research", there is so much misleading and wrong info in the OP that I'm not even going to start pointing out all the BS.

Just a few days ago I've seen in the BBC news something about the e-cigs being marketed as smoking aids and they shown some statistics about number of smokers kicking the habit by switching to e-cigs.

In the UK the amount of smokers that have turned to e-cigs between August last year and march this year has risen by 450% and that is just 7 months.

The more people that smoke e-cigs, the more they convert other smokers of tobacco cigs, so it is having a snowball effect.

Even in Germany, the government have made it legal to smoke e-cigs in bars and in the workplace.

They will be taking over as the dominant smoke within a couple of years, and the governments, tobacco industry and EU legislators are very twitchy about the loss of revenue..

There are just too many arguments and provable facts in favour of the e-cig lobby for it to be ignored and soon western governments will tax it like tobacco eventually and a 10ml e-liquid bottle will likely cost the same as a packet of cigs, and in the UK that is more than 10 USD a pack... However, e-liquid is particularly simple to make and ingredients are simple to acquire.

My wife says that the new legislation will be ignored by the people... they may make a couple of examples by jailing a couple here and there, but that will be for products actively containing nicotine at point of sale such as e-liquid or ready to go shishin cigs.

I am going ahead with my website... The market is booming here.

Yes I forgot to mention the said BBC news clip was about UK.

I myself quit smoking last time with the help of the e-cogs and then I went further and stopped using them. Was a piece of cake. I bet there are other substances beside nicotine in tobacco that makes it addictive, in e-juice there's only nic that smokers want so they eventually they loose addiction to other substances and to me it feels like nicotine isn't as addictive as other poison in smoke.

[DrTuner]

Taxes, taxes .. that's what it is.

[Stoneboy]

Its the same for all the countries, the main issue is not health or whatever is mentioned. Its all about politic and taxes.

[FATOZ]

Here we go again ... because the logic of these stupid e-cigarettes is so ridiculously flawed.

The things are absurdly dumb, as are the clowns who use them, sell them and present them as any sort of actual, viable option to smoking the addictive nicotine found in normal cigarettes .. if you want to quit, then QUIT .. done. Be a Man.

I've watched this 'debate' for months on this forum ..... Sheese, what a bunch of clowns.

Even though I suspect you are trolling, I will bite anyway. Unless you have been a smoker you would have no idea how hard it is to quit. If this method works for people, what business is it of yours? You are the one who is the clown, not those trying to do something to improve their health

[RubbaJohnny]

What a fag it is getting old

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9Aa1V5oyo

[Thai at Heart]

There is absolutely zero proof globally of what this bloke says.

E cigarettes are by many magnitudes safer than normal cigarettes. This was quoted this week by the BMA in the UK. There is no tar and no carbon monoxide for a very basic start.

The carcinogenic compounds in tar are in the hundreds. Lies like this are very dangerous.

It's pathetic excuses for logical thought like this that will help to keep the stupid and vulnerable ... stupid, vulnerable and unhealthy ... go for it ...

I love watching you clowns huffing and puffing .. can't swim, run ... but PROUD !!!

you bet we're ignorant, watch me ... puuufff, puufff .. !?

I just quit completely after 20 years. I tried ecigs, couldn't get used to it.

But, to claim that ecigs are as dangerous as cigarettes is idiotic and a lie.

[Fullstop]

experts

The (Thai) Public Health Ministry

Don't make me laugh!

[OnTheRun]

Someones worried about the monopoly.

I'd imagine the tobacco industry (globally), their spin docs will be flat out paying off medical 'experts' to amplify any harm e-cigs cause while burying the actual truth. Remember these are the same people who for years tried to deny any harm from normal cigarettes.

[OnTheRun]

There is absolutely zero proof globally of what this bloke says.

E cigarettes are by many magnitudes safer than normal cigarettes. This was quoted this week by the BMA in the UK. There is no tar and no carbon monoxide for a very basic start.

The carcinogenic compounds in tar are in the hundreds. Lies like this are very dangerous.

It's pathetic excuses for logical thought like this that will help to keep the stupid and vulnerable ... stupid, vulnerable and unhealthy ... go for it ...

I love watching you clowns huffing and puffing .. can't swim, run ... but PROUD !!!

you bet we're ignorant, watch me ... puuufff, puufff .. !?

I'll take my chances with e cigarettes, you keep to the sat diving and the risk of AVN. :-)

[looping]

'Thai expert' is an oxymoron, unless we're talking infidelity or corruption

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[louse1953]

Independent research from Boston University shows that electronic cigarettes have up to 1000 times less carcinogens than traditional cigarettes. This research suggests that you would need to use ecigs for three years to ingest the same amounts of carcinogens found in one pack of traditional cigarettes.

Propylene glycol is the same substance used in night club smoke machines, Are they going to ban them as well?

I suspect the Thai Government motivation for banning e-cigs is the same as the Australian Government, they will lose huge amounts of tax revenue, and party donations from the tobacco companies

Only the LNP continue to take donations.

[Andre0720]

There is absolutely zero proof globally of what this bloke says.

E cigarettes are by many magnitudes safer than normal cigarettes. This was quoted this week by the BMA in the UK. There is no tar and no carbon monoxide for a very basic start.

The carcinogenic compounds in tar are in the hundreds. Lies like this are very dangerous.

I should feel privileged...

The air where I live is dangerous enough,

I do not need to add to it....

Edited May 4, 2014 by Andre0720

[Hellhound66]

Here we go again ... because the logic of these stupid e-cigarettes is so ridiculously flawed.

The things are absurdly dumb, as are the clowns who use them, sell them and present them as any sort of actual, viable option to smoking the addictive nicotine found in normal cigarettes .. if you want to quit, then QUIT .. done. Be a Man.

I've watched this 'debate' for months on this forum ..... Sheese, what a bunch of clowns.

You are not smart enough to post. Don't quit your day job!!!

[Andre0720]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

That paranoia of yours,

Is it related to lots of drugs in the past years???

[Hellhound66]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Nicotine isn't particularly harmful as far as these things go, it may even have benefits.

You are wrong in saying that nicotine isn't very harmful. It is more toxic to the human body than cocaine.

See Nicotine poisoning. Here's an excerpt:

A person can overdose on nicotine through a combination of nicotine patches, nicotine gum, nicotine inhaler cartridges and/or tobacco smoking at the same time.^[15][16] Ingestion of nicotine pharmaceuticals, tobacco products, or nicotine containing plants may also lead to poisoning.^[4][5][6] Smoking excessive amounts of tobacco has also led to poisoning; a case was reported where two brothers smoked 17 and 18 pipes of tobacco in succession and were both fatally poisoned.^[2] Spilling an extremely high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in intoxication or even death since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following skin contact.^[17][18]

It's best to simply quit. Cannabis is far less harmful, especially if you use a vaporizer, like these two that I've tried, the Volcano and Arizer solo:

Edited May 4, 2014 by Hellhound66

[Hellhound66]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

You might want to add the unfathomable medical income derived from smoking related illnesses. In countries like the UK the Government has figured out that there will be a huge net reduction of costs to the NHS if smoking related illnesses are reduced - but countries without a national health service are less inclined to embrace ecigs as it just means loss of income.

[Shurup]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Edited May 4, 2014 by Shurup

[razer]

Google Search :

There were no results for: The liquids used in e-cigarettes contain concentrated nicotine and residues such as propylene glycol, lead, manganese, zinc, mercury, arsenic and cadmium

Looks like this article was plagiarized

http://www.newsuk24.com/news/cigarettes-just-deadly-normal-smokes-experts-warn

I don't think there is any evidence presented yet.

[hyperdimension]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

[boomerangutang]

Plants have devised a plethora of different defense mechanisms. Nicotene is one. It was honed over millenia as a toxin to repel whatever had the gall to eat its leaves. Then people came along, and they get a low-wattage kick out of ingesting that toxin. Today; e-cigarettes. Tomorrow: e-beer; you drink a tiny vial, and pow, it's like a whole pint of brew. And: e-coffee; brown chewing gum with all the caffeine of a double espresso. Or maybe that already exists. I don't know, I don't keep up with shortcut trends.

Addendum: We've already got e-sex. A buddy of mind is holed up in Bangkok, and spends 7 hours a day online (his excuse is; it's too hot to go out) getting gals to do things their mothers wouldn't approve of.

We had the Nuclear Age, then Hippie Flower Power, Then the Digital Revolution. Now we're at the dawn of the Shortcut Generation. Instead of doing and ingesting real things, we're ingesting facsimiles in bite-sized tidbits.