E-cigarettes just as deadly as normal smokes, experts warn

[WoopyDoo]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

Of course nicotine is harmful if it is like 100% pure nicotine.... what's your point??

In e-liquid it is diluted in PG at as little as 8mg per ml that means it is diluted 99.2%

Nobody puts pure nicotine into an e-cig and good luck if you can get your hands on the stuff.... Almost everyone who smokes e-cigs know the danger of pure nic and avoid it like the plague... one drop on your skin will put you in hospital and possibly even kill you.

In real cigs there are just under 5000 other additives of which 69 are classified as very highly toxic and deadly in their pure form nicotine is not even in the top 20 of the most toxic on that list.... they are also all carcinogens.

When you go to a restaurant that gets its veg from a market, it is likely that you will be ingesting formaldehyde which itself is a known carcinogen and the amounts you ingest are far more higher than the formaldehyde in cigarettes.

what is in e-liquid???

Propylene glycol .... passed by all FDAs in the world as a food safe additive, also the pharmaceutical industry.

Vegetable glycerine ..... passed by FDAs worldwide as also food safe and pharmaceutical safe.

Food grade flavourings..... Again... passed as food safe.

Nicotine..... diluted to very safe levels and accepted in many forms such as cigarettes.

What is in real cigs?????

• Acetanisole

• Acetic Acid

• Acetoin

• Acetophenone

• 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane

• 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine

• 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran

• Acetylpyrazine

• 2-Acetylpyridine

• 3-Acetylpyridine

• 2-Acetylthiazole

• Aconitic Acid

• dl-Alanine

• Alfalfa Extract

• Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil

• Allyl Hexanoate

• Allyl Ionone

• Almond Bitter Oil

• Ambergris Tincture

• Ammonia

• Ammonium Bicarbonate

• Ammonium Hydroxide

• Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic

• Ammonium Sulfide

• Amyl Alcohol

• Amyl Butyrate

• Amyl Formate

• Amyl Octanoate

• alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde

• Amyris Oil

• trans-Anethole

• Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil

• Anise

• Anise Star, Extract and Oils

• Anisyl Acetate

• Anisyl Alcohol

• Anisyl Formate

• Anisyl Phenylacetate

• Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins

• Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate

• 1-Arginine

• Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil

• Ascorbic Acid

• 1-Asparagine Monohydrate

• 1-Aspartic Acid

• Balsam Peru and Oil

• Basil Oil

• Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil

• Beeswax White

• Beet Juice Concentrate

• Benzaldehyde

• Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal

• Benzoic Acid, Benzoin

• Benzoin Resin

• Benzophenone

• Benzyl Alcohol

• Benzyl Benzoate

• Benzyl Butyrate

• Benzyl Cinnamate

• Benzyl Propionate

• Benzyl Salicylate

• Bergamot Oil

• Bisabolene

• Black Currant Buds Absolute

• Borneol

• Bornyl Acetate

• Buchu Leaf Oil

• 1,3-Butanediol

• 2,3-Butanedione

• 1-Butanol

• 2-Butanone

• 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One

• Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil

• Butyl Acetate

• Butyl Butyrate

• Butyl Butyryl Lactate

• Butyl Isovalerate

• Butyl Phenylacetate

• Butyl Undecylenate

• 3-Butylidenephthalide

• Butyric Acid]

• Cadinene

• Caffeine

• Calcium Carbonate

• Camphene

• Cananga Oil

• Capsicum Oleoresin

• Caramel Color

• Caraway Oil

• Carbon Dioxide

• Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder

• Carob Bean and Extract

• beta-Carotene

• Carrot Oil

• Carvacrol

• 4-Carvomenthenol

• 1-Carvone

• beta-Caryophyllene

• beta-Caryophyllene Oxide

• Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract

• Cassia Bark Oil

• Cassie Absolute and Oil

• Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute

• Cedar Leaf Oil

• Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana

• Cedrol

• Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin

• Cellulose Fiber

• Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract

• Chicory Extract

• Chocolate

• Cinnamaldehyde

• Cinnamic Acid

• Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract

• Cinnamyl Acetate

• Cinnamyl Alcohol

• Cinnamyl Cinnamate

• Cinnamyl Isovalerate

• Cinnamyl Propionate

• Citral

• Citric Acid

• Citronella Oil

• dl-Citronellol

• Citronellyl Butyrate

• itronellyl Isobutyrate

• Civet Absolute

• Clary Oil

• Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract

• Cocoa

• Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder

• Coconut Oil

• Coffee

• Cognac White and Green Oil

• Copaiba Oil

• Coriander Extract and Oil

• Corn Oil

• Corn Silk

• Costus Root Oil

• Cubeb Oil

• Cuminaldehyde

• para-Cymene

• 1-Cysteine Dandelion Root Solid Extract

• Davana Oil

• 2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal

• delta-Decalactone

• gamma-Decalactone

• Decanal

• Decanoic Acid

• 1-Decanol

• 2-Decenal

• Dehydromenthofurolactone

• Diethyl Malonate

• Diethyl Sebacate

• 2,3-Diethylpyrazine

• Dihydro Anethole

• 5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine

• Dill Seed Oil and Extract

• meta-Dimethoxybenzene

• para-Dimethoxybenzene

• 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol

• Dimethyl Succinate

• 3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione

• 3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione

• 3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene

• 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-

Dihydrofuran-2-One

• 6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-

2-One

• 3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid

• 2,4 Dimethylacetophenone

• alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol

• alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate

• alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate

• 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine

• 2,5-Dimethylpyrazine

• 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine

• Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone

• delta-Dodecalactone

• gamma-Dodecalactone

• para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde

• Ethyl 10-Undecenoate

• Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate

• Ethyl Acetate

• Ethyl Acetoacetate

• Ethyl Alcohol

• Ethyl Benzoate

• Ethyl Butyrate

• Ethyl Cinnamate

• Ethyl Decanoate

• Ethyl Fenchol

• Ethyl Furoate

• Ethyl Heptanoate

• Ethyl Hexanoate

• Ethyl Isovalerate

• Ethyl Lactate

• Ethyl Laurate

• Ethyl Levulinate

• Ethyl Maltol

• Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate

• Ethyl Myristate

• Ethyl Nonanoate

• Ethyl Octadecanoate

• Ethyl Octanoate

• Ethyl Oleate

• Ethyl Palmitate

• Ethyl Phenylacetate

• Ethyl Propionate

• Ethyl Salicylate

• Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate

• Ethyl Valerate

• Ethyl Vanillin

• 2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine

• 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -

Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One

• 2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine

• 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2 (5H)-Furanone

• 2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine

• 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde

• 4-Ethylguaiacol

• para-Ethylphenol

• 3-Ethylpyridine

• Eucalyptol

• Farnesol

• D-Fenchone

• Fennel Sweet Oil

• Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute

• Fig Juice Concentrate

• Food Starch Modified

• Furfuryl Mercaptan

• 4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One

• Galbanum Oil

• Genet Absolute

• Gentian Root Extract

• Geraniol

• Geranium Rose Oil

• Geranyl Acetate

• Geranyl Butyrate

• Geranyl Formate

• Geranyl Isovalerate

• Geranyl Phenylacetate

• Ginger Oil and Oleoresin

• 1-Glutamic Acid

• 1-Glutamine

• Glycerol

• Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated

• Grape Juice Concentrate

• Guaiac Wood Oil

• Guaiacol

• Guar Gum

• 2,4-Heptadienal

• gamma-Heptalactone

• Heptanoic Acid

• 2-Heptanone

• 3-Hepten-2-One

• 2-Hepten-4-One

• 4-Heptenal

• trans -2-Heptenal

• Heptyl Acetate

• omega-6-Hexadecenlactone

• gamma-Hexalactone

• Hexanal

• Hexanoic Acid

• 2-Hexen-1-Ol

• 3-Hexen-1-Ol

• cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate

• 2-Hexenal

• 3-Hexenoic Acid

• trans-2-Hexenoic Acid

• cis-3-Hexenyl Formate

• Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate

• Hexyl Acetate

• Hexyl Alcohol

• Hexyl Phenylacetate

• 1-Histidine

• Honey

• Hops Oil

• Hydrolyzed Milk Solids

• Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins

• 5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta-Lactone

• 4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone

• 2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One

• 4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone

• 2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde

• 4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone

• Hydroxycitronellal

• 6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane

• 4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone

• Hyssop Oil

• Immortelle Absolute and Extract

• alpha-Ionone

• beta-Ionone

• alpha-Irone

• Isoamyl Acetate

• Isoamyl Benzoate

• Isoamyl Butyrate

• Isoamyl Cinnamate

• Isoamyl Formate, IsoamylHexanoate

• Isoamyl Isovalerate

• Isoamyl Octanoate

• Isoamyl Phenylacetate

• Isobornyl Acetate

• Isobutyl Acetate

• Isobutyl Alcohol

• Isobutyl Cinnamate

• Isobutyl Phenylacetate

• Isobutyl Salicylate

• 2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine

• alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol

• Isobutyraldehyde

• Isobutyric Acid

• d,l-Isoleucine

• alpha-Isomethylionone

• 2-Isopropylphenol

• Isovaleric Acid

• Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil

• Kola Nut Extract

• Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin

• Lactic Acid

• Lauric Acid

• Lauric Aldehyde

• Lavandin Oil

• Lavender Oil

• Lemon Oil and Extract

• Lemongrass Oil

• 1-Leucine

• Levulinic Acid

• Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract

and Powder

• Lime Oil

• Linalool

• Linalool Oxide

• Linalyl Acetate

• Linden Flowers

• Lovage Oil And Extract

• 1-Lysine]

• Mace Powder, Extract and Oil

• Magnesium Carbonate

• Malic Acid

• Malt and Malt Extract

• Maltodextrin

• Maltol

• Maltyl Isobutyrate

• Mandarin Oil

• Maple Syrup and Concentrate

• Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil

• para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One

• Menthol

• Menthone

• Menthyl Acetate

• dl-Methionine

• Methoprene

• 2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol

• 2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol

• para-Methoxybenzaldehyde

• 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One

• 4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone

• 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone

• Methoxypyrazine

• Methyl 2-Furoate

• Methyl 2-Octynoate

• Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone

• Methyl Anisate

• Methyl Anthranilate

• Methyl Benzoate

• Methyl Cinnamate

• Methyl Dihydrojasmonate

• Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated

• Methyl Isovalerate

• Methyl Linoleate (48%)

• Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture

• Methyl Naphthyl Ketone

• Methyl Nicotinate

• Methyl Phenylacetate

• Methyl Salicylate

• Methyl Sulfide

• 3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone

• 4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone

• 5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal

• 5-Methyl-2-Thiophene-carboxaldehyde

• 6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One

• 2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde

• 5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One

• 1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene

• 4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One

• 2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde

• 6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One

• 4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol

• 4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole

• Methyl-alpha-Ionone

• Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid

• 4-Methylacetophenone

• para-Methylanisole

• alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate

• alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol

• 2-Methylbutyraldehyde

• 3-Methylbutyraldehyde

• 2-Methylbutyric Acid

• alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde

• Methylcyclopentenolone

• 2-Methylheptanoic Acid

• 2-Methylhexanoic Acid

• 3-Methylpentanoic Acid

• 4-Methylpentanoic Acid

• 2-Methylpyrazine

• 5-Methylquinoxaline

• 2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One

• (Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)

• 3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde

• Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate

• 2-Methylvaleric Acid

• Mimosa Absolute and Extract

• Molasses Extract and Tincture

• Mountain Maple Solid Extract

• Mullein Flowers

• Myristaldehyde

• Myristic Acid

• Myrrh Oil

• beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether

• Nerol

• Neroli Bigarde Oil

• Nerolidol

• Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal

• 2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol

• gamma-Nonalactone

• Nonanal

• Nonanoic Acid

• Nonanone

• trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol

• 2-Nonenal

• Nonyl Acetate

• Nutmeg Powder and Oil

• Oak Chips Extract and Oil

• Oak Moss Absolute

• 9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%)

And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)

• delta-Octalactone

• gamma-Octalactone

• Octanal

• Octanoic Acid

• 1-Octanol

• 2-Octanone

• 3-Octen-2-One

• 1-Octen-3-Ol

• 1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate

• 2-Octenal

• Octyl Isobutyrate

• Oleic Acid

• Olibanum Oil

• Opoponax Oil And Gum

• Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute

• Orange Oil and Extract

• Origanum Oil

• Orris Concrete Oil and Root

Extract

• Palmarosa Oil

• Palmitic Acid

• Parsley Seed Oil

• Patchouli Oil

• omega-Pentadecalactone

• 2,3-Pentanedione

• 2-Pentanone

• 4-Pentenoic Acid

• 2-Pentylpyridine

• Pepper Oil, Black And White

• Peppermint Oil

• Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil

• Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil

• alpha-Phellandrene

• 2-Phenenthyl Acetate

• Phenenthyl Alcohol

• Phenethyl Butyrate

• Phenethyl Cinnamate

• Phenethyl Isobutyrate

• Phenethyl Isovalerate

• Phenethyl Phenylacetate

• Phenethyl Salicylate

• 1-Phenyl-1-Propanol

• 3-Phenyl-1-Propanol

• 2-Phenyl-2-Butenal

• 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol

• 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One

• Phenylacetaldehyde

• Phenylacetic Acid

• 1-Phenylalanine

• 3-Phenylpropionaldehyde

• 3-Phenylpropionic Acid

• 3-Phenylpropyl Acetate

• 3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate

• 2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran

• Phosphoric Acid

• Pimenta Leaf Oil

• Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch

• Pineapple Juice Concentrate

• alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene

• D-Piperitone

• Piperonal

• Pipsissewa Leaf Extract

• Plum Juice

• Potassium Sorbate

• 1-Proline

• Propenylguaethol

• Propionic Acid

• Propyl Acetate

• Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate

• Propylene Glycol

• 3-Propylidenephthalide

• Prune Juice and Concentrate

• Pyridine

• Pyroligneous Acid And Extract

• Pyrrole

• Pyruvic Acid

• Raisin Juice Concentrate

• Rhodinol

• Rose Absolute and Oil

• Rosemary Oil

• Rum

• Rum Ether

• Rye Extract

• Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage

Oleoresin

• Salicylaldehyde

• Sandalwood Oil, Yellow

• Sclareolide

• Skatole

• Smoke Flavor

• Snakeroot Oil

• Sodium Acetate

• Sodium Benzoate

• Sodium Bicarbonate

• Sodium Carbonate

• Sodium Chloride

• Sodium Citrate

• Sodium Hydroxide

• Solanone

• Spearmint Oil

• Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil

• Sucrose Octaacetate

• Sugar Alcohols

• Sugars

• Tagetes Oil

• Tannic Acid

• Tartaric Acid

• Tea Leaf and Absolute

• alpha-Terpineol

• Terpinolene

• Terpinyl Acetate

• 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline

• 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane

• 2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-

Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone

• 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine

• Thiamine Hydrochloride

• Thiazole

• 1-Threonine

• Thyme Oil, White and Red

• Thymol

• Tobacco Extracts

• Tochopherols (mixed)

• Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract

• Tolualdehydes

• para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate

• para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde

• para-Tolyl Acetate

• para-Tolyl Isobutyrate

• para-Tolyl Phenylacetate

• Triacetin

• 2-Tridecanone

• 2-Tridecenal

• Triethyl Citrate

• 3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol

• para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol

• 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-

Enyl)But-2-En-4-One

• 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-

Ene-1,4-Dione

• 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,

3-Dienyl Methan

• 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,

3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One

• 2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone

• 2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine

• 1-Tyrosine

• delta-Undercalactone

• gamma-Undecalactone

• Undecanal

• 2-Undecanone, 1

• 0-Undecenal

• Urea

• Valencene

• Valeraldehyde

• Valerian Root Extract, Oil

and Powder

• Valeric Acid

• gamma-Valerolactone

• Valine

• Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin

• Vanillin

• Veratraldehyde

• Vetiver Oil

• Vinegar

• Violet Leaf Absolute

• Walnut Hull Extract

• Water

• Wheat Extract And Flour

• Wild Cherry Bark Extract

• Wine and Wine Sherry

• Xanthan Gum

• 3,4-Xylenol

• Yeast

[55Jay]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

Nicotine is harmful. That's not the point.

The point is the argument being made against e-cigs is ludicrous when you consider cigarettes themselves aren't banned in Thailand. Why doesn't the Thai FDA and Industry Standards want to study e-cigs? Maybe the result would be an inconvenient truth. Maybe they are just too busy or don't really care.

[sidewaysallwayz]

2 months so far, not a craving for cigs. Started Swedish snus, and find it more easier to put down. Even met one of the persons involved with production of pioneer snus down at Pattaya. Mr. Thomas Brenilen ( last name not sure he's a swede can't pronounce ) hand delivered a roll of Pioneer Snus while on R&R from R&R lol. Nice fellow very enjoying Hi-So living here in Thailand. I recommend snus over American chew, since it's not as addictive as Skoal, whatnot due to its lack of any chemicals. If interested here's his number and he'll gladly due business with you +668-6408-3772 Mr.Thomas.

[hyperdimension]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

Of course nicotine is harmful if it is like 100% pure nicotine.... what's your point??

As I said, I was simply correcting a statement that sounded as if to say that nicotine was as harmless as caffeine, which is not the case. Just 60mg of nicotine can kill if ingested within a short time (e.g. hour), and that is regardless of dilution (though the more diluted the more difficult it is to ingest that much).

So if the concentration of nicotine in e-cigarette liquid is 8mg/mL, then consuming 7.5mL within a short time would be lethal. Am I correct? How difficult would it be to consume a lethal amount? Maybe it's not easy to consume that much if vaporizing, but would drinking just 10mL kill you (or a child)? I'm keen to have answers to these questions.

In real cigs there are just under 5000 other additives of which 69 are classified as very highly toxic and deadly in their pure form

That's quite a list of ingredients in cigarettes. Would organic dried tobacco leaf be a better alternative, particularly if consumed using a vaporizer like this one created by a former Apple developer: Why An Apple Developer Quit His Job To Invent The Tesla Of Toking Up

Note that this vaporizer can also be used to consume cannabis. Would any of you smokers switch to cannabis if it were soon to be legalized?

[Shurup]

Waiting for the e-coke to become available.

J/k

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[apiwan]

I use E cigs in London. There very good. But now and again I like a real smoke.

The likes of Phillip Morris have seen revenue decrease. Also it's the British tobacco company that is coming out with all this.

Either smoking any shit is bad.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Gonsalviz]

What a crock.

[nisakiman]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

Of course nicotine is harmful if it is like 100% pure nicotine.... what's your point??

In e-liquid it is diluted in PG at as little as 8mg per ml that means it is diluted 99.2%

Nobody puts pure nicotine into an e-cig and good luck if you can get your hands on the stuff.... Almost everyone who smokes e-cigs know the danger of pure nic and avoid it like the plague... one drop on your skin will put you in hospital and possibly even kill you.

In real cigs there are just under 5000 other additives of which 69 are classified as very highly toxic and deadly in their pure form nicotine is not even in the top 20 of the most toxic on that list.... they are also all carcinogens.

When you go to a restaurant that gets its veg from a market, it is likely that you will be ingesting formaldehyde which itself is a known carcinogen and the amounts you ingest are far more higher than the formaldehyde in cigarettes.

what is in e-liquid???

Propylene glycol .... passed by all FDAs in the world as a food safe additive, also the pharmaceutical industry.

Vegetable glycerine ..... passed by FDAs worldwide as also food safe and pharmaceutical safe.

Food grade flavourings..... Again... passed as food safe.

Nicotine..... diluted to very safe levels and accepted in many forms such as cigarettes.

What is in real cigs?????

• Acetanisole

• Acetic Acid

• Acetoin

• Acetophenone

• 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane

• 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine

• 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran

• Acetylpyrazine

• 2-Acetylpyridine

• 3-Acetylpyridine

• 2-Acetylthiazole

• Aconitic Acid

• dl-Alanine

• Alfalfa Extract

• Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil

• Allyl Hexanoate

• Allyl Ionone

• Almond Bitter Oil

• Ambergris Tincture

• Ammonia

• Ammonium Bicarbonate

• Ammonium Hydroxide

• Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic

• Ammonium Sulfide

• Amyl Alcohol

• Amyl Butyrate

• Amyl Formate

• Amyl Octanoate

• alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde

• Amyris Oil

• trans-Anethole

• Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil

• Anise

• Anise Star, Extract and Oils

• Anisyl Acetate

• Anisyl Alcohol

• Anisyl Formate

• Anisyl Phenylacetate

• Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins

• Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate

• 1-Arginine

• Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil

• Ascorbic Acid

• 1-Asparagine Monohydrate

• 1-Aspartic Acid

• Balsam Peru and Oil

• Basil Oil

• Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil

• Beeswax White

• Beet Juice Concentrate

• Benzaldehyde

• Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal

• Benzoic Acid, Benzoin

• Benzoin Resin

• Benzophenone

• Benzyl Alcohol

• Benzyl Benzoate

• Benzyl Butyrate

• Benzyl Cinnamate

• Benzyl Propionate

• Benzyl Salicylate

• Bergamot Oil

• Bisabolene

• Black Currant Buds Absolute

• Borneol

• Bornyl Acetate

• Buchu Leaf Oil

• 1,3-Butanediol

• 2,3-Butanedione

• 1-Butanol

• 2-Butanone

• 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One

• Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil

• Butyl Acetate

• Butyl Butyrate

• Butyl Butyryl Lactate

• Butyl Isovalerate

• Butyl Phenylacetate

• Butyl Undecylenate

• 3-Butylidenephthalide

• Butyric Acid]

• Cadinene

• Caffeine

• Calcium Carbonate

• Camphene

• Cananga Oil

• Capsicum Oleoresin

• Caramel Color

• Caraway Oil

• Carbon Dioxide

• Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder

• Carob Bean and Extract

• beta-Carotene

• Carrot Oil

• Carvacrol

• 4-Carvomenthenol

• 1-Carvone

• beta-Caryophyllene

• beta-Caryophyllene Oxide

• Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract

• Cassia Bark Oil

• Cassie Absolute and Oil

• Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute

• Cedar Leaf Oil

• Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana

• Cedrol

• Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin

• Cellulose Fiber

• Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract

• Chicory Extract

• Chocolate

• Cinnamaldehyde

• Cinnamic Acid

• Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract

• Cinnamyl Acetate

• Cinnamyl Alcohol

• Cinnamyl Cinnamate

• Cinnamyl Isovalerate

• Cinnamyl Propionate

• Citral

• Citric Acid

• Citronella Oil

• dl-Citronellol

• Citronellyl Butyrate

• itronellyl Isobutyrate

• Civet Absolute

• Clary Oil

• Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract

• Cocoa

• Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder

• Coconut Oil

• Coffee

• Cognac White and Green Oil

• Copaiba Oil

• Coriander Extract and Oil

• Corn Oil

• Corn Silk

• Costus Root Oil

• Cubeb Oil

• Cuminaldehyde

• para-Cymene

• 1-Cysteine Dandelion Root Solid Extract

• Davana Oil

• 2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal

• delta-Decalactone

• gamma-Decalactone

• Decanal

• Decanoic Acid

• 1-Decanol

• 2-Decenal

• Dehydromenthofurolactone

• Diethyl Malonate

• Diethyl Sebacate

• 2,3-Diethylpyrazine

• Dihydro Anethole

• 5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine

• Dill Seed Oil and Extract

• meta-Dimethoxybenzene

• para-Dimethoxybenzene

• 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol

• Dimethyl Succinate

• 3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione

• 3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione

• 3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene

• 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-

Dihydrofuran-2-One

• 6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-

2-One

• 3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid

• 2,4 Dimethylacetophenone

• alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol

• alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate

• alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate

• 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine

• 2,5-Dimethylpyrazine

• 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine

• Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone

• delta-Dodecalactone

• gamma-Dodecalactone

• para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde

• Ethyl 10-Undecenoate

• Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate

• Ethyl Acetate

• Ethyl Acetoacetate

• Ethyl Alcohol

• Ethyl Benzoate

• Ethyl Butyrate

• Ethyl Cinnamate

• Ethyl Decanoate

• Ethyl Fenchol

• Ethyl Furoate

• Ethyl Heptanoate

• Ethyl Hexanoate

• Ethyl Isovalerate

• Ethyl Lactate

• Ethyl Laurate

• Ethyl Levulinate

• Ethyl Maltol

• Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate

• Ethyl Myristate

• Ethyl Nonanoate

• Ethyl Octadecanoate

• Ethyl Octanoate

• Ethyl Oleate

• Ethyl Palmitate

• Ethyl Phenylacetate

• Ethyl Propionate

• Ethyl Salicylate

• Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate

• Ethyl Valerate

• Ethyl Vanillin

• 2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine

• 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -

Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One

• 2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine

• 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2 (5H)-Furanone

• 2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine

• 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde

• 4-Ethylguaiacol

• para-Ethylphenol

• 3-Ethylpyridine

• Eucalyptol

• Farnesol

• D-Fenchone

• Fennel Sweet Oil

• Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute

• Fig Juice Concentrate

• Food Starch Modified

• Furfuryl Mercaptan

• 4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One

• Galbanum Oil

• Genet Absolute

• Gentian Root Extract

• Geraniol

• Geranium Rose Oil

• Geranyl Acetate

• Geranyl Butyrate

• Geranyl Formate

• Geranyl Isovalerate

• Geranyl Phenylacetate

• Ginger Oil and Oleoresin

• 1-Glutamic Acid

• 1-Glutamine

• Glycerol

• Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated

• Grape Juice Concentrate

• Guaiac Wood Oil

• Guaiacol

• Guar Gum

• 2,4-Heptadienal

• gamma-Heptalactone

• Heptanoic Acid

• 2-Heptanone

• 3-Hepten-2-One

• 2-Hepten-4-One

• 4-Heptenal

• trans -2-Heptenal

• Heptyl Acetate

• omega-6-Hexadecenlactone

• gamma-Hexalactone

• Hexanal

• Hexanoic Acid

• 2-Hexen-1-Ol

• 3-Hexen-1-Ol

• cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate

• 2-Hexenal

• 3-Hexenoic Acid

• trans-2-Hexenoic Acid

• cis-3-Hexenyl Formate

• Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate

• Hexyl Acetate

• Hexyl Alcohol

• Hexyl Phenylacetate

• 1-Histidine

• Honey

• Hops Oil

• Hydrolyzed Milk Solids

• Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins

• 5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta-Lactone

• 4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone

• 2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One

• 4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone

• 2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde

• 4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone

• Hydroxycitronellal

• 6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane

• 4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone

• Hyssop Oil

• Immortelle Absolute and Extract

• alpha-Ionone

• beta-Ionone

• alpha-Irone

• Isoamyl Acetate

• Isoamyl Benzoate

• Isoamyl Butyrate

• Isoamyl Cinnamate

• Isoamyl Formate, IsoamylHexanoate

• Isoamyl Isovalerate

• Isoamyl Octanoate

• Isoamyl Phenylacetate

• Isobornyl Acetate

• Isobutyl Acetate

• Isobutyl Alcohol

• Isobutyl Cinnamate

• Isobutyl Phenylacetate

• Isobutyl Salicylate

• 2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine

• alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol

• Isobutyraldehyde

• Isobutyric Acid

• d,l-Isoleucine

• alpha-Isomethylionone

• 2-Isopropylphenol

• Isovaleric Acid

• Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil

• Kola Nut Extract

• Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin

• Lactic Acid

• Lauric Acid

• Lauric Aldehyde

• Lavandin Oil

• Lavender Oil

• Lemon Oil and Extract

• Lemongrass Oil

• 1-Leucine

• Levulinic Acid

• Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract

and Powder

• Lime Oil

• Linalool

• Linalool Oxide

• Linalyl Acetate

• Linden Flowers

• Lovage Oil And Extract

• 1-Lysine]

• Mace Powder, Extract and Oil

• Magnesium Carbonate

• Malic Acid

• Malt and Malt Extract

• Maltodextrin

• Maltol

• Maltyl Isobutyrate

• Mandarin Oil

• Maple Syrup and Concentrate

• Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil

• para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One

• Menthol

• Menthone

• Menthyl Acetate

• dl-Methionine

• Methoprene

• 2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol

• 2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol

• para-Methoxybenzaldehyde

• 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One

• 4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone

• 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone

• Methoxypyrazine

• Methyl 2-Furoate

• Methyl 2-Octynoate

• Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone

• Methyl Anisate

• Methyl Anthranilate

• Methyl Benzoate

• Methyl Cinnamate

• Methyl Dihydrojasmonate

• Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated

• Methyl Isovalerate

• Methyl Linoleate (48%)

• Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture

• Methyl Naphthyl Ketone

• Methyl Nicotinate

• Methyl Phenylacetate

• Methyl Salicylate

• Methyl Sulfide

• 3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone

• 4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone

• 5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal

• 5-Methyl-2-Thiophene-carboxaldehyde

• 6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One

• 2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde

• 5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One

• 1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene

• 4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One

• 2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde

• 6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One

• 4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol

• 4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole

• Methyl-alpha-Ionone

• Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid

• 4-Methylacetophenone

• para-Methylanisole

• alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate

• alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol

• 2-Methylbutyraldehyde

• 3-Methylbutyraldehyde

• 2-Methylbutyric Acid

• alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde

• Methylcyclopentenolone

• 2-Methylheptanoic Acid

• 2-Methylhexanoic Acid

• 3-Methylpentanoic Acid

• 4-Methylpentanoic Acid

• 2-Methylpyrazine

• 5-Methylquinoxaline

• 2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One

• (Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)

• 3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde

• Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate

• 2-Methylvaleric Acid

• Mimosa Absolute and Extract

• Molasses Extract and Tincture

• Mountain Maple Solid Extract

• Mullein Flowers

• Myristaldehyde

• Myristic Acid

• Myrrh Oil

• beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether

• Nerol

• Neroli Bigarde Oil

• Nerolidol

• Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal

• 2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol

• gamma-Nonalactone

• Nonanal

• Nonanoic Acid

• Nonanone

• trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol

• 2-Nonenal

• Nonyl Acetate

• Nutmeg Powder and Oil

• Oak Chips Extract and Oil

• Oak Moss Absolute

• 9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%)

And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)

• delta-Octalactone

• gamma-Octalactone

• Octanal

• Octanoic Acid

• 1-Octanol

• 2-Octanone

• 3-Octen-2-One

• 1-Octen-3-Ol

• 1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate

• 2-Octenal

• Octyl Isobutyrate

• Oleic Acid

• Olibanum Oil

• Opoponax Oil And Gum

• Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute

• Orange Oil and Extract

• Origanum Oil

• Orris Concrete Oil and Root

Extract

• Palmarosa Oil

• Palmitic Acid

• Parsley Seed Oil

• Patchouli Oil

• omega-Pentadecalactone

• 2,3-Pentanedione

• 2-Pentanone

• 4-Pentenoic Acid

• 2-Pentylpyridine

• Pepper Oil, Black And White

• Peppermint Oil

• Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil

• Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil

• alpha-Phellandrene

• 2-Phenenthyl Acetate

• Phenenthyl Alcohol

• Phenethyl Butyrate

• Phenethyl Cinnamate

• Phenethyl Isobutyrate

• Phenethyl Isovalerate

• Phenethyl Phenylacetate

• Phenethyl Salicylate

• 1-Phenyl-1-Propanol

• 3-Phenyl-1-Propanol

• 2-Phenyl-2-Butenal

• 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol

• 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One

• Phenylacetaldehyde

• Phenylacetic Acid

• 1-Phenylalanine

• 3-Phenylpropionaldehyde

• 3-Phenylpropionic Acid

• 3-Phenylpropyl Acetate

• 3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate

• 2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran

• Phosphoric Acid

• Pimenta Leaf Oil

• Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch

• Pineapple Juice Concentrate

• alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene

• D-Piperitone

• Piperonal

• Pipsissewa Leaf Extract

• Plum Juice

• Potassium Sorbate

• 1-Proline

• Propenylguaethol

• Propionic Acid

• Propyl Acetate

• Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate

• Propylene Glycol

• 3-Propylidenephthalide

• Prune Juice and Concentrate

• Pyridine

• Pyroligneous Acid And Extract

• Pyrrole

• Pyruvic Acid

• Raisin Juice Concentrate

• Rhodinol

• Rose Absolute and Oil

• Rosemary Oil

• Rum

• Rum Ether

• Rye Extract

• Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage

Oleoresin

• Salicylaldehyde

• Sandalwood Oil, Yellow

• Sclareolide

• Skatole

• Smoke Flavor

• Snakeroot Oil

• Sodium Acetate

• Sodium Benzoate

• Sodium Bicarbonate

• Sodium Carbonate

• Sodium Chloride

• Sodium Citrate

• Sodium Hydroxide

• Solanone

• Spearmint Oil

• Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil

• Sucrose Octaacetate

• Sugar Alcohols

• Sugars

• Tagetes Oil

• Tannic Acid

• Tartaric Acid

• Tea Leaf and Absolute

• alpha-Terpineol

• Terpinolene

• Terpinyl Acetate

• 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline

• 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane

• 2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-

Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone

• 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine

• Thiamine Hydrochloride

• Thiazole

• 1-Threonine

• Thyme Oil, White and Red

• Thymol

• Tobacco Extracts

• Tochopherols (mixed)

• Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract

• Tolualdehydes

• para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate

• para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde

• para-Tolyl Acetate

• para-Tolyl Isobutyrate

• para-Tolyl Phenylacetate

• Triacetin

• 2-Tridecanone

• 2-Tridecenal

• Triethyl Citrate

• 3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol

• para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol

• 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-

Enyl)But-2-En-4-One

• 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-

Ene-1,4-Dione

• 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,

3-Dienyl Methan

• 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,

3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One

• 2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone

• 2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine

• 1-Tyrosine

• delta-Undercalactone

• gamma-Undecalactone

• Undecanal

• 2-Undecanone, 1

• 0-Undecenal

• Urea

• Valencene

• Valeraldehyde

• Valerian Root Extract, Oil

and Powder

• Valeric Acid

• gamma-Valerolactone

• Valine

• Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin

• Vanillin

• Veratraldehyde

• Vetiver Oil

• Vinegar

• Violet Leaf Absolute

• Walnut Hull Extract

• Water

• Wheat Extract And Flour

• Wild Cherry Bark Extract

• Wine and Wine Sherry

• Xanthan Gum

• 3,4-Xylenol

• Yeast

Oh, we can do that for lots of things to scare the children.

Ever wondered what's in chocolate?

Acetic-acid, aesculetin, alanine, alkaloids, alpha-sitosterol, alpha-theosterol, amyl-acetate, amyl-alcohol, amyl-butyrate, amylase, apigenin-7-o-glucoside, arabinose, arachidic-acid, arginine, ascorbic-acid, ascorbic-acid-oxidase, aspariginase, beta-carotene, beta-sitosterol, beta-theosterol, biotin, caffeic-acid, caffeine, calcium, campesterol, catalase, catechins, catechol, cellulase, cellulose, chlorogenic-acid, chrysoeriol-7-o-glucoside, citric-acid, coumarin, cyanidin, cyanidin-3-beta-l-arabinoside, cyanidin-3-galactoside, cyanidin-glycoside, cycloartanol, d-galactose, decarboxylase, dextrinase, diacetyl, dopamine, epigallocatechin, ergosterol, ferulic-acid, formic-acid, fructose, furfurol, galacturonic-acid, gallocatechin, gentisic-acid, glucose, glutamic-acid, glycerin, glycerophosphatase, glycine, glycolic-acid, glycosidase, haematin, histidine, i-butyric-acid, idaein, invertase, isobutylacetate, isoleucine, isopropyl-acetate, isovitexin, kaempferol, l-epicatechin, leucine, leucocyanidins, linalool, linoleic-acid, lipase, luteolin, luteolin-7-o-glucoside, lysine, lysophosphatidyl-choline, maleic-acid, mannan, manninotriose, mannose, melibiose, mesoinositol, methylheptenone, n-butylacetate, n-nonacosane, niacin, nicotinamide, nicotinic- acid, nitrogen, nonanoic-acid, o-hydroxyphenylacetic-acid, octoic-acid, oleic- acid, oleo-dipalmatin, oleopalmitostearin, oxalic-acid, p-anisic-acid, p-coumaric-acid, p-coumarylquinic-acid, p-hydroxybenzoic-acid, p-hydroxyphenylacetic-acid, palmitic-acid, palmitodiolen, pantothenic-acid, pectin, pentose, peroxidase, phenylacetic-acid, phenylalanine, phlobaphene, phosphatidyl-choline, phosphatidyl- ethanolamine, phosphatidyl-inositol, phospholipids, phosphorus, phytase, planteose, polygalacturonate, polyphenol-oxidase, polyphenols, proline, propionic-acid, propyl-acetate, protocatechuic-acid, purine, pyridoxine, quercetin, quercetin-3-o-galactoside, quercetin-3-o-glucoside, quercitrin, raffinase, raffinose, reductase, rhamnose, riboflavin, rutin, rutoside, saccharose, salsolinol, serine, sinapic-acid, stachyose, stearic-acid, stearodiolein, stigmasterol, sucrose, syringic-acid, tannins, tartaric-acid, theobromine, theophylline, thiamin, threonine, trigonelline, tyramine, tyrosine, valerianic-acid, valine, vanillic-acid, verbascose, verbascotetrose, vitexin

http://www.rain-tree.com/chocolate.htm#.U1WSm6Lx0dU

Pretty horrifying stuff, eh? So give up the chocolate all of you - it's full of toxic chemicals, so it's gonna kill you, for sure.

All those 'chemicals' in cigarettes are found in a multitude of things that we ingest on a daily basis. They are all around us. It's just part of the propaganda machine designed to scare us.

That's how propaganda works, and the fanatics in Tobacco Control have honed it to a fine art.

It's a combination of frightening people with the fear of the unknown, i.e. telling people that things contain deadly toxins that are used in batteries, toilet cleaner etc etc, but omitting to mention that the quantities involved are miniscule and that those same toxins are found in the food we consume daily (the first rule of toxicology is that the dose makes the poison), and telling lies over and over again until they become the perceived reality.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels - Hitler's Propaganda Minister

[surangw]

stupid people are figuring out how to use them to get high.

media is trying to keep quite the use of Loperamide in the ecig vap units

[Emptyset]

Indeed and if you drink too much water you can die from water poisoning - what's your point?? In reply to Emptyset ;-)

Emptyset said that it was the tobacco smoke that was harmful in cigarettes, not so much the nicotine. I responded to correct him by saying that nicotine itself is also quite harmful. Nicotine was even used as an insecticide.

Different drugs have different levels of harm, and cannabis, for example, is a much safer alternative, especially when vaporized.

I have no problem with marijuana but I find the slight buzz of nicotine more suitable for getting things done during the day. And I'd guess most other people who smoke wouldn't want to be high all the time either. Like most things, the danger is in the dose. At very high doses nicotine can kill, but then, so can a lot of things which are commonly used as medicines. And as someone else pointed out, even water can be a killer at very high doses. Why are we allowing this deadly liquid into out homes? lol.

Like I say, I think marijuana should be legal and there's no doubt it can be beneficial for certain health conditions, chronic pain etc. But I'd disagree that it's less harmful than nicotine, if you consider the memory loss. Plus there's an increased risk of psychosis in about a third of young people that smoke it. That said, it's a benign drug for most people if used in moderation.

Nicotine, on the other hand, far from causing memory loss, actually promotes memory retention. Indeed, it's a uniquely powerful cognitive enhancer, particularly when it's not smoked (the tobacco smoke tends to negate nicotines positive effect). I noticed this when I quit smoking actually. The effect might be too subtle for a lot of people to notice but I've had an autoimmune thyroid problem with the past four years which has had deleterious effects on memory and cognition in general. I noticed the memory problems became significantly worse when I quit smoking. I think the effect is twofold, one is the direct effect on nicotine on cognition and the second is nicotine's suppression of inflammation. The latter might also explain why my allergies got far worse after quitting.

So nicotine could in fact be a benefit to those with certain conditions. But you're right it's not completely harmless. On balance though, it seems to me that the benefits outweigh the risks as the chances of nicotine induced toxicity seem slight and the positive effects were, for me, tangible. But I'm no expert and other people need to look at the research on Alzeimher's and dementia and decide for themselves whether it's worth the trade-off. Of course, in tobacco smoke, the risks far outweigh the benefits but in e-cigs, I suspect it's the other way around. Not suggesting anyone start using them if they're not a smoker already of course, but if I were still a smoker, I'd be making the switch to them as quickly as possible.

[Thai at Heart]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

You might want to add the unfathomable medical income derived from smoking related illnesses. In countries like the UK the Government has figured out that there will be a huge net reduction of costs to the NHS if smoking related illnesses are reduced - but countries without a national health service are less inclined to embrace ecigs as it just means loss of income.

The overall balance would be a net reduction in revenue to the exchequer. Smoking related diseases cost far less than total tax take from cigarettes.

Ironically, from a purely fiscal perspective is the smoker who instantly drops dead one day before his state retirement. The biggest cost to society are people who live to very old age and need on going care.

The government financially has no incentive to stop everyone smoking.

[casindonet]

I was a 3 packs a day smoker once.....been smoking since I was 17 yrs old. Started using e-cig 2yrs back, starting from 11mg to 3mg & to 0mg nicotine. After that I just totally stop.

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[casindonet]

Thai govt either very concerned about loss of tax revenues & profits from the Govt Tobacco Monopoly and are inventing lies to push through laws to protect it

or

they are simply inventing scientific data off the top of their heads.

They have a strong track record of both. I would go with 80% of reason 1 and 20 % of reason 2 as the real story behind this.

My guess is they are getting lessons from TAT.

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gigman]

As I remember my ex wife told me in secret that in medical school she has been told that actually nicotine is good for human body ...in small doses, means someone is laying to us..

so , should I return to cigarettes again and start coughing again ..because since I am using e-vapor device I stopped coughing...not mention that I use no nicotine flavors ..

Truth is that nobody spent or will spend any money for researching e-cigarettes .....WHAT FOR ?

Why still people using this device e- cigarettes when those devices are not??? why not to use inhalator ....because it is.

All bullshit again and again ...same with energy ...petrol etc... IT IS BORING.

I forgot....After 2 month e- inhalator I lost this urge for smoke and really do not need to carry with me....means I am not depended anymore...I just like it and specially "Cappucino" taste..and Apple as well...

[geoman1976]

Wow, I have to say congrats to everyone. This is one of the most informative and civilized discussions of have seen on this site. I am a smoker and I hate it. I asked my wife to get me an e-cigarette as a healthier alternative to cigs and this title and article initially worried me a bit. After reading the responses and a little checking with professor google, I would say the e-cig is a better alternative by far. Thanks for the info everyone. Cheers!

[hyperdimension]

I think marijuana should be legal and there's no doubt it can be beneficial for certain health conditions, chronic pain etc. But I'd disagree that it's less harmful than nicotine

Consumption of just 60mg of nicotine within a short timespan can kill. So the question is how difficult is it to consume that much in a short timespan? If smoking tobacco, it would be quite difficult, as an average cigarette yields about 1mg of absorbed nicotine. How about with e-cigarette liquid? Drinking 10 to 20mL could kill, bit if consuming via vaporization, how hard and long would one need to be inhaling to overdose and/or die?

Spilling e-cigarette liquid onto your skin can even cause problems (same as nicotine overdose) if it's not washed off quickly. I just read the article Selling a Poison by the Barrel: Liquid Nicotine for E-Cigarettes which mentions a woman who "was admitted to the hospital with cardiac problems after her e-cigarette broke in her bed, spilling the e-liquid, which was then absorbed through her skin."

Compared with caffeine, 5 to 10g of caffeine orally (or 1g intravenously) can kill. 5g is equivalent to around 14 12-ounce cups of coffee which contain 375mg of caffeine each.

Compared with cannabis, there are no known verified cases in which cannabis has been the direct cause of death via toxicity, and scientists have not been able to come up with a definitive level of toxicity for it. It's theorised that an enormous amount of cannabis would have to be consumed to die from it. For pure THC, the estimated lethal human dose intravenously (not orally, which would be much more) is 30 mg/kg, or 2.1g for a 70kg person (see: Marinol). So 210 Marinol capsules (10mg THC each) would have to be taken apart and injected in order to kill a 70kg person.

So yes, any substance can be toxic depending on the amount consumed. What really matters when considering the level of relative harm (particularly death by toxicity) is the ease in which a dangerous amount of the substance can be consumed, either intentionally or accidentally, and this can depend on the forms in which the substance is available and the possible routes of consumption.

So I think nicotine being available in the form of e-cigarette liquid combined with the fact that just 60mg of it can kill does practically make it more dangerous than many other substances. e-cigarettes do eliminate much of the health risks that are associated with tobacco smoke, but the nicotine is still quite harmful.

Since I'm not a tobacco smoker, I guess it's easy for me to suggest to simply not use either cigarettes nor e-cigarettes. Is addiction to nicotine the main obstacle? Can e-cigarettes be effectively used to ween yourself off nicotine, especially when e-cigarettes could allow for higher consumption of nicotine (as there is no longer any smoke to choke on)?

Edited May 4, 2014 by hyperdimension

[pattayasnowman]

At least smokers smoking E Cigs don't bother non smokers.

Thumbs up for E Cigs !!!

[MAJIC]

Even in this enlightened age I don't see the medical profession, and the WHO (World Health Org) starting to vet and research E-Cigarrettes,why? I suspect worldwide we have to bow to the mighty Tax Revenue.Not much difference really than the usefulness of Asbestos workers,Coal Miners/Tin miners/Cotton mill workers,and many other industrial occupational diseases,which was a long way from looking after workers health.

Some Mines, in later years had Mine Doctors,who were not adverse to filling out Death certificates,in favour of natural Deaths,so no compensation was paid to the Widow,of the Mineworker! for Pneumoconiosis.

As it stands at the moment,E-Cigarettes (appear) to be somewhat less harmful (I use them myseif) but considering the past lies told to protect the fortunes of the Industrialists,from the above workers diseases,claims, is this the start of more lies,and huge amounts of premature deaths in the quest for wealth by the unscrupuless? in yet another new product, is tested on the Consumer.whilst the sellers couldnt care less,as long as they make a collossal fourtune. It would seem the average new drug that comes on the market,can take several years, of testing,before being licenced to consume. If E-Cigarrettes and Liquid have gone through any form of rigorous testing,then it's news to me.

The main thing that worries me is: how did such a thing,get on a mass market,worldwide (if not safe ? as Thailand seems to be saying) and so quickly, with presumably a clean bill of health? but then E-Cigarettes,and refill liquid has been covered legally and would appear Nicotine,and dispensing equipment is marked with..... International skull and Crossbones symbol for Poison! so does that make the product safe????

We know,Nicotine is a Poison! but this is a new way of using it! And Thailand seems to be totally against E-Cigarettes wonder what Thailand knows they that many other countries are ignoring?

[rhythmworx]

Here are some PROVEN FACTS.

If you buy your gear from Totally Wicked the company that introduced it to the UK you will not get stuff that contains arsenic etc...

E-liquid (I make my own) is generally made from Propylene Glycol (a humectant in many processed foods and also in real tobacco)

Vegetable glycerine (often watered down with deionized water to make it thinner also in real tobacco) AKA aqueous Glycerine

Flavouring (food based and also PG based also in real tobacco)

Now that's a few thousand carcinogenic chemicals short of a cigarette, no cyanide, formaldehyde, toluene, xylene etc... none of the proven carcinogens.

The only reason governments are trying to ban them is because, they earn a Godzilla's spunk load of tax from the sale of real cigarettes, the tax from the meds used to treat smokers that are hospitalized etc...

The heat needed to produce a chemical reaction to form a new residue chemical and carcinogens from PG is for more than what your average E-cig atomizer is capable of delivering with its recommended battery.

They will not help you quit as your still getting the drug your addicted to, in most cases it will make you smoke more if you stop E-cigs, depending on how you use it.

Smoked one for 3 years, don't get chest pains anymore, catarrh or cough my tits up in the morning. They can make your teeth yellow a bit due to the PG (so does coffee and tea) but some good tooth paste and an electric toothbrush can sort that out.

[MAJIC]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

You might want to add the unfathomable medical income derived from smoking related illnesses. In countries like the UK the Government has figured out that there will be a huge net reduction of costs to the NHS if smoking related illnesses are reduced - but countries without a national health service are less inclined to embrace ecigs as it just means loss of income.

The overall balance would be a net reduction in revenue to the exchequer. Smoking related diseases cost far less than total tax take from cigarettes.

Ironically, from a purely fiscal perspective is the smoker who instantly drops dead one day before his state retirement. The biggest cost to society are people who live to very old age and need on going care.

The government financially has no incentive to stop everyone smoking.

Uk Politicians like to blame the smokers for damaging the NHS,fact of the matter is,they have made a mess of it, Here are the figures per annum from a few years ago.

Tax from Tobacco Smoking and related Products................................= £ 7500 Million

Cost to NHS for treatment for smoking related illness and deaths.......= £ 500 Millon

Total Profit in Taxes............= £ 6500 Million

So smoking is doing the Taxpayer a favour with low Taxes.And yes smokers early deaths are a big saving for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.How does he keep a straight face,when bumping up the Taxes on cigarettes????? on Budget day.

[Thai at Heart]

You can guarantee that any press release preceded by the phrase 'experts have said' is going to be pure, unmitigated rubbish driven by either an ideological agenda, or a submission for funding, or both.

There has been so much misinformation and outright lies disseminated about smoking, drinking and now e-cigs that you really have to dig very deep to get to the truth.

The problem with e-cigs is that:

1) They can't be taxed as tobacco

2) The Pharma industry is losing sales of their useless NRT products

3) The ideologues hate them because smokers are using them in places where smoking is banned, and smoking bans were enacted as punishment for smokers because they wouldn't do as they were told and quit smoking. So the zealots are incandescent with righteous ire.

"But it looks like smoking" they wail, as they lobby for yet more bans.

Smoking bans, and now e-cig bans are not, and have never been about health. They are about hate.

You might want to add the unfathomable medical income derived from smoking related illnesses. In countries like the UK the Government has figured out that there will be a huge net reduction of costs to the NHS if smoking related illnesses are reduced - but countries without a national health service are less inclined to embrace ecigs as it just means loss of income.

The overall balance would be a net reduction in revenue to the exchequer. Smoking related diseases cost far less than total tax take from cigarettes.

Ironically, from a purely fiscal perspective is the smoker who instantly drops dead one day before his state retirement. The biggest cost to society are people who live to very old age and need on going care.

The government financially has no incentive to stop everyone smoking.

Uk Politicians like to blame the smokers for damaging the NHS,fact of the matter is,they have made a mess of it, Here are the figures per annum from a few years ago.

Tax from Tobacco Smoking and related Products................................= £ 7500 Million

Cost to NHS for treatment for smoking related illness and deaths.......= £ 500 Millon

Total Profit in Taxes............= £ 6500 Million

So smoking is doing the Taxpayer a favour with low Taxes.And yes smokers early deaths are a big saving for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.How does he keep a straight face,when bumping up the Taxes on cigarettes????? on Budget day.

Exactly. Just imagine what happens if half the current smokers switch to e cigarettes which is a very feasible outcome when the choice is 8gbp a pack with added health problems.

[rhythmworx]

Uk Politicians like to blame the smokers for damaging the NHS,fact of the matter is,they have made a mess of it, Here are the figures per annum from a few years ago.

Tax from Tobacco Smoking and related Products................................= £ 7500 Million

Cost to NHS for treatment for smoking related illness and deaths.......= £ 500 Millon

Total Profit in Taxes............= £ 6500 Million

So smoking is doing the Taxpayer a favour with low Taxes.And yes smokers early deaths are a big saving for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.How does he keep a straight face,when bumping up the Taxes on cigarettes????? on Budget day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Low taxes?

I can buy 20 Benson and Hedges in LOS for 75 baht ( £1.50)

I can buy them in UK for what £7.50?

£6 per pack tax is a lot of tax, especially per smoker per day on average.

If there were no smokers in UK the NHS would barely exist.

I guess your point is that if they didn't tax smokers they would tax something else to compensate?

Like the old Victorian window tax, at least with that you had the option of bricking up your windows.

[retell]

Google Search :

There were no results for: The liquids used in e-cigarettes contain concentrated nicotine and residues such as propylene glycol, lead, manganese, zinc, mercury, arsenic and cadmium

Looks like this article was plagiarized

http://www.newsuk24.com/news/cigarettes-just-deadly-normal-smokes-experts-warn

I don't think there is any evidence presented yet.

Looks like they took the content from the battery and listed it with the ones from the liquid.

[jacko45k]

I thought they did not emit anything toxic?

If so they are certainly less dangerous to those around.

If they are just as dangerous to those using them, well nothing has changed there, but surely a step in the right direction.

[boomerangutang]

I've been living too clean.

maybe I'll take up some habits, and be more like everyone else: eating loads of sugary things, deep fried foods, msg, caffeine, ciggs, fermented sugar drinks,

You guys who ingest those things seem to be having all the fun, except when you have to lie down on the surgeon's gurney and have a lung removed or a liver replaced,

[Krataiboy]

There is more evidence for carcinogens in talcum powder than in e cigarettes. Guess there's no money to be made from banning talc.

Source, please.

[Krataiboy]

Uk Politicians like to blame the smokers for damaging the NHS,fact of the matter is,they have made a mess of it, Here are the figures per annum from a few years ago.

Tax from Tobacco Smoking and related Products................................= £ 7500 Million

Cost to NHS for treatment for smoking related illness and deaths.......= £ 500 Millon

Total Profit in Taxes............= £ 6500 Million

So smoking is doing the Taxpayer a favour with low Taxes.And yes smokers early deaths are a big saving for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.How does he keep a straight face,when bumping up the Taxes on cigarettes????? on Budget day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Low taxes?

I can buy 20 Benson and Hedges in LOS for 75 baht ( £1.50)

I can buy them in UK for what £7.50?

£6 per pack tax is a lot of tax, especially per smoker per day on average.

If there were no smokers in UK the NHS would barely exist.

I guess your point is that if they didn't tax smokers they would tax something else to compensate?

Like the old Victorian window tax, at least with that you had the option of bricking up your windows.

If there were no smokers in UK the NHS would barely exist.

You sure you are only smoking ordinary ciggies? Or is it just that you can't you do simple arithmetic?

Total Profit From (tobacco) Taxes: 6.5 million pounds.

Annual cost of the NHS (2012-13) 108.9 billion pounds.

Smokers are clearly are not, er, coughing up as big a contribution as you seem to think.

[phosphorescent]

There is more evidence for carcinogens in talcum powder than in e cigarettes. Guess there's no money to be made from banning talc.

Source, please.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/talcum-powder-and-cancer

http://livinganointed.com/identifying-toxic-chemicals/harmful-carcinogenic-ingredients-in-skin-care.pdf

[55Jay]

Wow, I have to say congrats to everyone. This is one of the most informative and civilized discussions of have seen on this site. I am a smoker and I hate it. I asked my wife to get me an e-cigarette as a healthier alternative to cigs and this title and article initially worried me a bit. After reading the responses and a little checking with professor google, I would say the e-cig is a better alternative by far. Thanks for the info everyone. Cheers!

Just do it.

I didn't plan to stop smoking but knew I should. I was smoking more since moving to LOS and really starting to feel like s**t.

I had no idea about e-cigs, but happened to see a mate of mine with an e-cig (a small eco-c unit) in his hand and I thought it was some sort of elaborate filter tip on his cigarette. He showed it to me and told me he quit his 3 pack a day habit instantly by using it. I thought that was great, so my kit arrived by EMS 3 days later. I charged it and haven't had a real cigarette since. That was 5 months ago.

It did take a few tries to get used to vaping vs. smoking a cig. Like many cig smokers I've seen since, I coughed on the first drag or two. Some chuck it in the bin but I'm glad I stuck with it. I feel so much better for it.

Not promoting ecigs and this isn't a stop smoking thread but some of the cool things I noticed after quitting cigs:

Financial: I was spending 3,000 Baht/mo on cigarettes. I now spend about 600-650 Baht/month on liquids, maybe 1,000 if I order one-off replacement parts (mouth pieces/atomizers, etc).

Sense of smell/taste: I remember walking out of our bedroom one morning (after being on ecigs about 3 weeks) and asked my wife if a visitor came by while I was still sleeping, and had been smoking in or just outside the house (we keep window/doors open during the day). She smiled at me and said no, that it was the smell from me smoking inside the house the past year+, which she had complained about to me a number of times. It was that sudden, the smell hit me like a frying pan in the face that morning. After 5 months, the smell of stale cigarette smoke in our house is pretty much gone now. And yes, things to taste differently now. Sharper, cleaner, even beer tastes different.

Long Held Associations: Speaking of beer, I had been naturally tapering off beer before but found that quitting real cigs doused the beer/cig association. Also the association I had with choking down 5-7 cigs with my two extra large mugs of morning coffee. I now only have 1 coffee in the morning and don't toke on my ecig that much at the same time. Coffee and blueberry flavor.... meh. LOL.

Give it a try. Hope it works out for you.

[Thai at Heart]

Uk Politicians like to blame the smokers for damaging the NHS,fact of the matter is,they have made a mess of it, Here are the figures per annum from a few years ago.

Tax from Tobacco Smoking and related Products................................= £ 7500 Million

Cost to NHS for treatment for smoking related illness and deaths.......= £ 500 Millon

Total Profit in Taxes............= £ 6500 Million

So smoking is doing the Taxpayer a favour with low Taxes.And yes smokers early deaths are a big saving for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.How does he keep a straight face,when bumping up the Taxes on cigarettes????? on Budget day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Low taxes?

I can buy 20 Benson and Hedges in LOS for 75 baht ( £1.50)

I can buy them in UK for what £7.50?

£6 per pack tax is a lot of tax, especially per smoker per day on average.

If there were no smokers in UK the NHS would barely exist.

I guess your point is that if they didn't tax smokers they would tax something else to compensate?

Like the old Victorian window tax, at least with that you had the option of bricking up your windows.

If there were no smokers in UK the NHS would barely exist.

You sure you are only smoking ordinary ciggies? Or is it just that you can't you do simple arithmetic?

Total Profit From (tobacco) Taxes: 6.5 million pounds.

Annual cost of the NHS (2012-13) 108.9 billion pounds.

Smokers are clearly are not, er, coughing up as big a contribution as you seem to think.

I think we may be missing a zero there.