Naturalisation and it's benefits over British citizenship by decent.

[Steps]

Hi All,

I am a British National and have a son who is 6 years old to my Thai girlfriend (not married) of 8 years. I plan to apply for a British Passport in the next couple of months for him which will automatically grant him British citizenship. Now i have read somewhere that if he has a child, that child will not be eligible for a British passport. If he would like to pass on his British nationality status to his future children, he would need to spend 3 years in the UK, whereby, 3 years on the day and after, he can apply for Naturalisation (or something like that).

I already plan to send him home to the UK to stay with my family for 3 years, to get some education under the British curriculum and improve language skills (it may be worth mentioning that both parents will not stay with him in the UK). So really, i am posting this topic in the hope to shed some more light on the differences between what one is entitled to under British Citizenship by decent and Naturalisation (I think this is the term?).

As I write this, I have just remembered that what I read said, he must enter the UK on a foreign passport and remain in the UK for 3 years or more, after which, he can then apply for naturalisation (which will give him the right to pass on his nationality status by decent.

One question I do have is, would one or both of his parents need to stay with him during these 3 years?

Thank you for all input

[steady]

Not too sure whether you're right or wrong but I also have an interest in the situation. What I have found is that if people who are British by descent, that is children of British citizens born abroad have children abroad then they are not British, however if they are born in the UK then (not surprisingly) they are. Citizens otherwise than by descent get that extra generation of holding and passing on their nationality. That is if someone other than by descent has a child abroad then that child can have British citizenship.

The reason that I have an interest is that we have 3 children, 2 natural children half Thai half British, they are British by descent so if they have children outside the UK they will not be British. However our third child is a 100% Thai who has been adopted by us in a British court and she now becomes British other than by descent. When she is older she can choose to go anywhere in the world and any children she has by non British fathers will be British by descent. Gets you thinking, doesn't it!

[Maybole]

Many years ago (1970's) a friend of mine in Abu Dhabi, born of Scottish parents in Kenya and whose wife was American, had a son born in Dubai. Since the family were not muslim the boy could not have UAE nationality nor could he have a UK or USA passport. The child was unable to travel until the US embassy issued a temporary travel document. The family returned to UK and after a period of residence (I believe 5 years) eventually got naturalisation for him. This would apply to your grandchildren. I believe that the residence term may have changed in the meantime and I suggest that you contact the UK Naturalisation Office direct and discuss it with them. Ignore the UK Embassy in Bangkok

[srn89]

I was led to believe that it was not possible to obtain a British Passport for a child born out of wedlock.

[theoldgit]

I was led to believe that it was not possible to obtain a British Passport for a child born out of wedlock.

You were led to believe incorrectly, this is a lift from the relevant Home Office advice.

2. Before 1983, only men were able to pass on their citizenship to their children who were born outside the United Kingdom – and only if the children were legitimate. Since 1 January 1983, women have also been able to pass on British citizenship to their children who were born outside the United Kingdom. On 1 July 2006, British men acquired the right to pass on citizenship to illegitimate children, provided they could be regarded as the child’s “father” (see paragraph 1© above).

[Steps]

Not too sure whether you're right or wrong but I also have an interest in the situation. What I have found is that if people who are British by descent, that is children of British citizens born abroad have children abroad then they are not British, however if they are born in the UK then (not surprisingly) they are. Citizens otherwise than by descent get that extra generation of holding and passing on their nationality. That is if someone other than by descent has a child abroad then that child can have British citizenship.

The reason that I have an interest is that we have 3 children, 2 natural children half Thai half British, they are British by descent so if they have children outside the UK they will not be British. However our third child is a 100% Thai who has been adopted by us in a British court and she now becomes British other than by descent. When she is older she can choose to go anywhere in the world and any children she has by non British fathers will be British by descent. Gets you thinking, doesn't it!

It certainly has got me thinking!! and i would prefere to not have any issues when i become a grandparent if i do choose to re-settle in the UK. Just trying to keep all the options open.

Thanks for the input.

[Steps]

Many years ago (1970's) a friend of mine in Abu Dhabi, born of Scottish parents in Kenya and whose wife was American, had a son born in Dubai. Since the family were not muslim the boy could not have UAE nationality nor could he have a UK or USA passport. The child was unable to travel until the US embassy issued a temporary travel document. The family returned to UK and after a period of residence (I believe 5 years) eventually got naturalisation for him. This would apply to your grandchildren. I believe that the residence term may have changed in the meantime and I suggest that you contact the UK Naturalisation Office direct and discuss it with them. Ignore the UK Embassy in Bangkok

That was a riddle!

Thanks for the addvice. However, if i can prevent the 5 year business and all the uncertanty that goes with it now, then i will do what i can not to make sure that my son has all the options without the hastle when he is older.

[bobrussell]

As I understand it the exact status of children (British or not) can rely on a degree of discretion. If the grandchildren can be demonstrated to have sufficient links to the UK (eg schooling, living in the UK etc) then nationality can be passed on.

If a child with a British passport does not ever come to the UK and their children have no active links to the UK they may have to rely on the nationality of their normal residence.

I would post links but find the new UK website a nightmare! This was the situation a couple of years ago because one of my nephews falls into this category.

[iainiain101]

Just out of interest, if a child of ours, British by descent has a baby in Britain then whilst that child qualifies for UK nationality, does the child qualify for Thai nationality?

[Mario2008]

You should always consider the differences bewteen the two forms of acquiring a nationality. The two biggest differences are:

1. By birth works from date of birth, by naturalisation not.

2. Many countries allow dual nationality in case of being born with it, but not in case of naturalisation. Than you have to choose.

(No problem with Thailand as the child has Thai nationality by birth, don't know about the UK law on this, but believe it is alo not a problem).

[bobrussell]

Just out of interest, if a child of ours, British by descent has a baby in Britain then whilst that child qualifies for UK nationality, does the child qualify for Thai nationality?

Children born anywhere in the world with one Thai parent qualifies for Thai nationality!

[7by7]

British nationality law can be very complicated, and the following is my interpretation. However, I am not a lawyer and so can only offer an opinion based upon my reading and understanding; if in doubt check with the Home Office or a lawyer who specialises in nationality law.

As I understand it, if someone is British by descent then they cannot then be naturalised as British; because they are already British. Theoretically, they could renounce their British citizenship and then apply to be naturalised; but I have my doubts that such an application, following renunciation, would be granted.

If someone is British by descent and their children are born in the UK, or a qualifying territory, then those children will be British otherwise than by descent, i.e. in their own right, regardless of the nationality of the other parent.

But if those children are born outside the UK or a qualifying territory, then they will only be British if the other parent is British otherwise than by descent.

However, those children could apply to be registered as British without having to spend the full qualifying period in the UK, or even, I understand, being in the UK at all. But as said by Bob above, they would need to demonstrate sufficient links to the UK. As each case in this situation is judged on it's own merits, it is impossible to comment further.

For a fuller explanation of the difference between British by descent and British otherwise than by descent see British citizenship basics.

Steps, if you do send your son to the UK for schooling, it will be better for him to use his British passport to enter. Otherwise he would need to obtain a Tier 4 (Child) Student Visa. Such a visa would only be available for a private, fee paying school; not a state one.

Either way, they is no requirement for either or both parents to accompany him. Living with grandparents, or other suitable accommodation, is acceptable.

Edited May 14, 2014 by 7by7

[Steps]

British nationality law can be very complicated, and the following is my interpretation. However, I am not a lawyer and so can only offer an opinion based upon my reading and understanding; if in doubt check with the Home Office or a lawyer who specialises in nationality law.

As I understand it, if someone is British by descent then they cannot then be naturalised as British; because they are already British. Theoretically, they could renounce their British citizenship and then apply to be naturalised; but I have my doubts that such an application, following renunciation, would be granted.

If someone is British by descent and their children are born in the UK, or a qualifying territory, then those children will be British otherwise than by descent, i.e. in their own right, regardless of the nationality of the other parent.

But if those children are born outside the UK or a qualifying territory, then they will only be British if the other parent is British otherwise than by descent.

However, those children could apply to be registered as British without having to spend the full qualifying period in the UK, or even, I understand, being in the UK at all. But as said by Bob above, they would need to demonstrate sufficient links to the UK. As each case in this situation is judged on it's own merits, it is impossible to comment further.

For a fuller explanation of the difference between British by descent and British otherwise than by descent see British citizenship basics.

Steps, if you do send your son to the UK for schooling, it will be better for him to use his British passport to enter. Otherwise he would need to obtain a Tier 4 (Child) Student Visa. Such a visa would only be available for a private, fee paying school; not a state one.

Either way, they is no requirement for either or both parents to accompany him. Living with grandparents, or other suitable accommodation, is acceptable.

"Steps, if you do send your son to the UK for schooling, it will be better for him to use his British passport to enter. Otherwise he would need to obtain a Tier 4 (Child) Student Visa. Such a visa would only be available for a private, fee paying school; not a state one.

Either way, they is no requirement for either or both parents to accompany him. Living with grandparents, or other suitable accommodation, is acceptable."

Hi 7by7, Thank you for this response. This is the kind of information i am looking for to help me make some decisions. Always find your Information spot on!!

Cheers