How Yingluck and her 2011 Cabinet were found guilty of abuse of power

[Torkmada]

Pathetic!

The world is laughing at the elites and the low, low levels they have had to stoop to because their extreme unpopularity prohibits them from legitimately coming to power via elections.

So in the illustrious opinion of Torkmada, it is perfectly in order for a Prime Minister to carry out the business of Government by the abuse of power? I would strongly recommend that you read up on the case before coming out with such nonesense - you will give TV a bad name with unqualified drivel like this and no I am not a yellow, multi coloured or any other shirt. I do however believe that Ministers, in what ever Country should conduct their business in an honest manner and remember that they are in office to serve the people, not themselves.

You have much to learn, grasshopper.

….but the idea that majoritarianism lies at the heart of the mess in Thailand is silly. Majoritarianism typically involves an elected government that captures the courts, silences media critics and tinkers with the constitution to perpetuate its rule. In Thailand the opposite is true: the courts, the media, the bureaucracy, and the universities are extensions of the old Thai establishment, with the xxxxxxxx at its centre. The xxxxx advisers on the xxxx xxxxxxx are powerful. They oversee military appointments and then use their appointees to bless coups. After the coup in 2006 a military government abolished the constitution, which the advisers felt had made Mr Thaksin’s power unassailable. In its place they put a charter that gives the courts tremendous powers, making it possible for them to remove the head of an elected government on the slightest of technicalities.

The Economist

[ramrod711]

On the surface, a reasonable assessment. Unfortunately, the explanation only skims the surface.

The unspoken circumstances that put the case in perspective are ignored. The PM and the PTP took office in difficult times. The Democrat party and its allies were intent on doing all that they could to sabotage and bring down the government. They made it very clear they would "get" her. The government had the view that there was a real threat of being violently overthrown by the military. Considering Thailand's history, it wasn't unreasonable.

It is understandable that a man who held a key position in the government and who was responsible for components of internal security had to be someone who could be counted on. In Thailand, only family can be trusted and even then, only up to a certain point. In the jaundiced world of Thai political life, there had to be a change, particularly of a person who was not a supporter of the government. Where the government erred, was in the appointment of someone who was "family". They should have appointed someone in the interim, a non descript person who was loyal. Perhaps, the view was that there was an immediate need to have a loyalist in the position. It was a miscalculation, For a government that has meticulously planned its return to power, its strategists erred and created the basis upon which the PM could be removed. Whatever the reasons, or the motives, it was poor political judgement to appoint a "family" member to the position. Had it been someone else, the case would have floundered.

If PTP were aware that the Dems were out to "get" them it may have been prudent for them to operate in an above board, open, legal way. That has never been Thaksins style. The most disturbing, illegal, contemptuous act by PTP was the passing of the amnesty bill in the middle of the night after amending the bill after the first reading. I think the party will be dissolved over that. The sad thing is that they could have done so much for the people, and they failed miserably. Having said that, Suthep should have no part in the reform process, he has had his day. Abhisit should step aside, if a party wants the support of the public they must offer the people something, or someone they will vote for. Let us not forget that Abhisit pledged to not be PM again until the party wins an election. I for one expect that promise to be kept and will castigate him on the forum if he reneges.

sorry I am confused

Please add a link to this statement

What I read was he will not run for PM if his new plan is adopted by all parties

are we reading different newspapers

I could be wrong ?

No sir, you are not wrong, he said shortly after the 2011 election defeat, that he would not act as PM again, unless the Democrats won an election. I looked briefly for a link but I'm not going through hundreds of pages. He did say it, and I expect that he will keep his word. If he doesn't, I will spend the time to find the link for sure.

[Trembly]

On the surface, a reasonable assessment. Unfortunately, the explanation only skims the surface.

The unspoken circumstances that put the case in perspective are ignored. The PM and the PTP took office in difficult times. The Democrat party and its allies were intent on doing all that they could to sabotage and bring down the government. They made it very clear they would "get" her. The government had the view that there was a real threat of being violently overthrown by the military. Considering Thailand's history, it wasn't unreasonable.

It is understandable that a man who held a key position in the government and who was responsible for components of internal security had to be someone who could be counted on. In Thailand, only family can be trusted and even then, only up to a certain point. In the jaundiced world of Thai political life, there had to be a change, particularly of a person who was not a supporter of the government. Where the government erred, was in the appointment of someone who was "family". They should have appointed someone in the interim, a non descript person who was loyal. Perhaps, the view was that there was an immediate need to have a loyalist in the position. It was a miscalculation, For a government that has meticulously planned its return to power, its strategists erred and created the basis upon which the PM could be removed. Whatever the reasons, or the motives, it was poor political judgement to appoint a "family" member to the position. Had it been someone else, the case would have floundered.

If a.n. other had been appointed ??? there wasn't a.n.other it was a shin family.

Quote " they took office in difficult times" most new governments do, that's how they get in. Once IN what did they achieve ??? 3years of squander and corrupt governing defying the courts.

No government in Thailand would be violently overthrown by the army IF they governed as per rule and as sworn in on oath to do so. They had a wonderful chance this FAMILY to come clean and govern in fine fashion BUT was not interested, initially to get Thaksin back here to rule and charges dropped ---that would have been unlawful.

No, he isn't in the Shin Familiy, he's an ex-brother in law, which is not a relative. He wasn't 'family' ever. Family is blood line relatives.

He wasn't either family or a relative at the time of the transfer either.

If you don't know that Potjamarn doesn't still have a close relationship with Thaksin, working or otherwise, then you are frankly not qualified to post on the matter.

Much to learn about the Orient, grasshopper.

[Siripon]

One day the MPs and Pheua Thai supporters will tire of belonging to the Pheua Shinawat party where every important decision is made by one absent man. Yingluck survived this long as PM because she said nothing- 'hollow' as described by one PT MP, and she is pretty, if she looked like Yaowapa things would not have been so easy.

So now we have a Yingluck underling as acting PM, next maybe Pongthep, an extremel rich faithful servant of Thaksin. How dull, when will we see Pheua Thai actually produce politicians of calibre who are not servants of Thaksin?

And as for the Democrats, it's time for Apisit to go, someone down to earth but clever and experienced is needed.Someone who can both talk to vendors and farmers and yet have a global vision for Thailand.Dr Surin perhaps

.If the Democrats cannot reform and modernise then it's time for a new party to help drive Thailand forward,

[cocopops]

Pathetic!

The world is laughing at the elites and the low, low levels they have had to stoop to because their extreme unpopularity prohibits them from legitimately coming to power via elections.

It's business of the Thais, the world please stay out

Can you please show us a link to any western country where she even got a mention

Have tried all the Australia newspapers and they not give her dissmissal 1 line

Im my world western countries believe in the rule of LAW

https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&gl=au&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=yingluck&oq=yingluck&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j0j43i53.802.1777.0.1978.8.3.0.5.5.0.154.352.1j2.3.0...0.0...1ac.1.u63sLBqAkY4

That was tricky.

[BlueNoseCodger]

On the surface, a reasonable assessment. Unfortunately, the explanation only skims the surface.

The unspoken circumstances that put the case in perspective are ignored. The PM and the PTP took office in difficult times. The Democrat party and its allies were intent on doing all that they could to sabotage and bring down the government. They made it very clear they would "get" her. The government had the view that there was a real threat of being violently overthrown by the military. Considering Thailand's history, it wasn't unreasonable.

It is understandable that a man who held a key position in the government and who was responsible for components of internal security had to be someone who could be counted on. In Thailand, only family can be trusted and even then, only up to a certain point. In the jaundiced world of Thai political life, there had to be a change, particularly of a person who was not a supporter of the government. Where the government erred, was in the appointment of someone who was "family". They should have appointed someone in the interim, a non descript person who was loyal. Perhaps, the view was that there was an immediate need to have a loyalist in the position. It was a miscalculation, For a government that has meticulously planned its return to power, its strategists erred and created the basis upon which the PM could be removed. Whatever the reasons, or the motives, it was poor political judgement to appoint a "family" member to the position. Had it been someone else, the case would have floundered.

No, he isn't in the Shin Familiy, he's an ex-brother in law, which is not a relative. He wasn't 'family' ever. Family is blood line relatives.

He wasn't either family or a relative at the time of the transfer either.

Then I stand corrected and admit I didn't do my homework. I erred. Apologies.

What a stupid thing to say, BNC. If YL was currently married, and appointed her husband to a high level of office - would you say that it is not nepotism because they are not blood relatives? Ridiculous.

Nepotism - www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary "the unfair practice by a powerful person of giving jobs and other favors to relatives."

GK- I don't understand why you truely believe that you 'erred'. Your original post @ 2.51 was correct and made sense.

He's not a relative, he's an ex- brother in law, and in-laws cease being inlaws when the marriage that linked them breaks down.

As someone not related to her, she gains no benefit from his job and he has no family links or marriage links to her.

Now she took 4 days to make the appointment and 10 people, approved it. Those 9 other people are also not related to him and also don't benefit from him being there.

How many days did the court take to come to a decision? Half a day (they took Yingluk evidence on Tuesday, and Wednesday lunchtime was the announcement). So if half a day is enough to remove 10 Cabinet members, surely 4 days is enough to move a single civil servant. So they did their job.

Edited May 8, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[BlueNoseCodger]

One day the MPs and Pheua Thai supporters will tire of belonging to the Pheua Shinawat party where every important decision is made by one absent man. Yingluck survived this long as PM because she said nothing- 'hollow' as described by one PT MP, and she is pretty, if she looked like Yaowapa things would not have been so easy.

So now we have a Yingluck underling as acting PM, next maybe Pongthep, an extremel rich faithful servant of Thaksin. How dull, when will we see Pheua Thai actually produce politicians of calibre who are not servants of Thaksin?

And as for the Democrats, it's time for Apisit to go, someone down to earth but clever and experienced is needed.Someone who can both talk to vendors and farmers and yet have a global vision for Thailand.Dr Surin perhaps

.If the Democrats cannot reform and modernise then it's time for a new party to help drive Thailand forward,

Lets be clear here, even if Yingluk isn't in the next election and the next Pheu Thai PM is not a Shin, your Abhisit will still boycott, and Suthep will still try to block and the independents will still play games.

Because the problem isn't with Pheu Thai at all, it's the Democrats, the fake political front for the elites. People don't vote them into power. Why do you think they had to rig the Senate? There was no change that could be made to the Senate that would have given them an electoral win, so they removed the election part completely from half the Senate!

Why do you think they pretend it's 'reform' and refuse to say what changes they want to make? Because the change they want to make is to appoint the Cabinet, i.e. an unelected government the way they 'reformed' the Senate to be largely unelected.

Edited May 8, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[cocopops]

When seeing the tittle "How Yingluck and her 2011 cabinet were found guilty of abuse of power" I thought there was going to read an article with a rational and clear legal explanation of the ruling. However it turned out to be the opposite. Makes no cents when elected leaders cannot move civil servants, especially when it is only one.

I believe Obama has retired more military Generals than any other President and it hardly gets a mention in the press.

It depends on why they are moved. Just because you want a relative [brother in law is a relative of sorts, though I'm led to believe he's and ex BIL now, lets just call him someone from the inner circle, shall we] in place of a critical civil servant doesn't mean it's right to do it. That is abuse of power. I doubt President Obama had the same ulterior motives in his actions.

Not sure about the Generals, but I am supremely confident that Barack Obama, along with every other democratically elected leader in the world, installs loyalists in key positions within the civil service for political reasons. And removes potential adversaries from the same. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? Or, considering what we now know, that they had no reason to believe that Thawil might work against them down the road?

That the loyalist they happened to install was also a relative is just a technicality. A major <swearword>-up on behalf of the PT lawyers, but nothing more than that. Thisreally is a repeat of the cooking-show debacle.

Even if you (and clearly most of you do) believe that Ms. Yingluck is the most corrupt administator that has ever lived the idea that the Shin family works on such a levelis risible. Rewarding loyalists? Of course. When they probably shouldn't? Almost certainly. In order to capture an extra civil service salary for the family? For Pete's sake....

Does anyone really think this was anything other than a political move? That it really had anything to do with the guy being "family"?

Edited May 8, 2014 by cocopops

[Morch]

One day the MPs and Pheua Thai supporters will tire of belonging to the Pheua Shinawat party where every important decision is made by one absent man. Yingluck survived this long as PM because she said nothing- 'hollow' as described by one PT MP, and she is pretty, if she looked like Yaowapa things would not have been so easy.

So now we have a Yingluck underling as acting PM, next maybe Pongthep, an extremel rich faithful servant of Thaksin. How dull, when will we see Pheua Thai actually produce politicians of calibre who are not servants of Thaksin?

And as for the Democrats, it's time for Apisit to go, someone down to earth but clever and experienced is needed.Someone who can both talk to vendors and farmers and yet have a global vision for Thailand.Dr Surin perhaps

.If the Democrats cannot reform and modernise then it's time for a new party to help drive Thailand forward,

Lets be clear here, even if Yingluk isn't in the next election and the next Pheu Thai PM is not a Shin, your Abhisit will still boycott, and Suthep will still try to block and the independents will still play games.

Because the problem isn't with Pheu Thai at all, it's the Democrats, the fake political front for the elites. People don't vote them into power. Why do you think they had to rig the Senate? There was no change that could be made to the Senate that would have given them an electoral win, so they removed the election part completely from half the Senate!

Why do you think they pretend it's 'reform' and refuse to say what changes they want to make? Because the change they want to make is to appoint the Cabinet, i.e. an unelected government the way they 'reformed' the Senate to be largely unelected.

The Democrat Party certainly needs to clean house and reform itself, preferably in time for the next elections. Instead they keep trying to reform (read: rig the system in their favor) the country, holding unto the hope that this will be the magic that will bring them back to power. Changing the party is lengthy and difficult process, with no guarantees of electoral success. Until they learn how to relate to broader segments of Thai society, hard to see how they can be real contenders.

That does not mean no problems exist with the PTP, though. Being de-facto run by convicted fugitive and his family, is definitely a problem. Treating electoral victories as meaning winner-takes-all is another. When the PTP will let go of the Shins (or the other way around) and come to its own, and develop an alternative leadership, they will be a better option. Relating to the rest of Thai voters outside their traditional power base would be good too.

[Bluespunk]

When seeing the tittle "How Yingluck and her 2011 cabinet were found guilty of abuse of power" I thought there was going to read an article with a rational and clear legal explanation of the ruling. However it turned out to be the opposite. Makes no cents when elected leaders cannot move civil servants, especially when it is only one.

I believe Obama has retired more military Generals than any other President and it hardly gets a mention in the press.

It depends on why they are moved. Just because you want a relative [brother in law is a relative of sorts, though I'm led to believe he's and ex BIL now, lets just call him someone from the inner circle, shall we] in place of a critical civil servant doesn't mean it's right to do it. That is abuse of power. I doubt President Obama had the same ulterior motives in his actions.

Not sure about the Generals, but I am supremely confident that Barack Obama, along with every other democratically elected leader in the world, installs loyalists in key positions within the civil service for political reasons. And removes potential adversaries from the same. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? Or, considering what we now know, that they had no reason to believe that Thawil might work against them down the road?

That the loyalist they happened to install was also a relative is just a technicality. A major <swearword>-up on behalf of the PT lawyers, but nothing more than that. Thisreally is a repeat of the cooking-show debacle.

Even if you (and clearly most of you do) believe that Ms. Yingluck is the most corrupt administator that has ever lived the idea that the Shin family works on such a levelis risible. Rewarding loyalists? Of course. When they probably shouldn't? Almost certainly. In order to capture an extra civil service salary for the family? For Pete's sake....

Does anyone really think this was anything other than a political move? That it really had anything to do with the guy being "family"?

What yingluck et al did was they abused the system to install a family member. There were legal ways of doing this but they did not follow them. They felt the rules did not apply to them and therefore they ignored them. That is abuse of power. That is typical behaviour from this inept, corrupt and arrogant govt who alone have brought about this current crisis. If they had followed the rules and regulations, ruled consensually and not done all they could to absolve criminals of their wrong doing we would not be where we are not. They abused power. They paid the price. Good riddance.

[davidstipek]

So you can't appoint your own people to important posts, even in the face of intimidation and threats? You might want to call this one another coup--of the judicial variety.

You should be able to Nominate Personel of your choice. Then Nominees should be voted on by Both Parliment and House. If they pass both Voting proccesses they would be successfully be placed in positions nominated for.

To enable one just to say I filled position with my friend Joe Black... in not in the best interest of the People, The Party, The Government and Certainly not the Country....this is usually done by an inept, corrupt and arrogant government.

God Man...! Someday the people are going to have this explained to them and all HELL is going to result! As how they have been cheated, abused, trodden on... all so the Elite Class... could be insured for continual in-flow of cash. This is why the Baht is still so low... If there was a Respectable and Honest Government Office here, anywhere... World Banking would recognise this fact and currency rates would probably be more like $1USD = 15-20 Baht!

I am an American, I like the rate now as my dollar buys more... (Liked it better when USD was worth more...) But it doesn't help the Nationals here at all!! I know in the past few days I have seen rates change from B32.10 to B32.38... back and forth. I know Satangs arn't much, but even at that Thousands of USD is quite a difference... These little jumps are better than any Bank Interest your money could earn!!

Edited May 8, 2014 by davidstipek

[DrDweeb]

On the surface, a reasonable assessment. Unfortunately, the explanation only skims the surface.

The unspoken circumstances that put the case in perspective are ignored. The PM and the PTP took office in difficult times. The Democrat party and its allies were intent on doing all that they could to sabotage and bring down the government. They made it very clear they would "get" her. The government had the view that there was a real threat of being violently overthrown by the military. Considering Thailand's history, it wasn't unreasonable.

It is understandable that a man who held a key position in the government and who was responsible for components of internal security had to be someone who could be counted on. In Thailand, only family can be trusted and even then, only up to a certain point. In the jaundiced world of Thai political life, there had to be a change, particularly of a person who was not a supporter of the government. Where the government erred, was in the appointment of someone who was "family". They should have appointed someone in the interim, a non descript person who was loyal. Perhaps, the view was that there was an immediate need to have a loyalist in the position. It was a miscalculation, For a government that has meticulously planned its return to power, its strategists erred and created the basis upon which the PM could be removed. Whatever the reasons, or the motives, it was poor political judgement to appoint a "family" member to the position. Had it been someone else, the case would have floundered.

If a.n. other had been appointed ??? there wasn't a.n.other it was a shin family.

Quote " they took office in difficult times" most new governments do, that's how they get in. Once IN what did they achieve ??? 3years of squander and corrupt governing defying the courts.

No government in Thailand would be violently overthrown by the army IF they governed as per rule and as sworn in on oath to do so. They had a wonderful chance this FAMILY to come clean and govern in fine fashion BUT was not interested, initially to get Thaksin back here to rule and charges dropped ---that would have been unlawful.

No, he isn't in the Shin Familiy, he's an ex-brother in law, which is not a relative. He wasn't 'family' ever. Family is blood line relatives.

He wasn't either family or a relative at the time of the transfer either.

Like Thaksin's 's ex-wife?

[DrDweeb]

One day the MPs and Pheua Thai supporters will tire of belonging to the Pheua Shinawat party where every important decision is made by one absent man. Yingluck survived this long as PM because she said nothing- 'hollow' as described by one PT MP, and she is pretty, if she looked like Yaowapa things would not have been so easy.

So now we have a Yingluck underling as acting PM, next maybe Pongthep, an extremel rich faithful servant of Thaksin. How dull, when will we see Pheua Thai actually produce politicians of calibre who are not servants of Thaksin?

And as for the Democrats, it's time for Apisit to go, someone down to earth but clever and experienced is needed.Someone who can both talk to vendors and farmers and yet have a global vision for Thailand.Dr Surin perhaps

.If the Democrats cannot reform and modernise then it's time for a new party to help drive Thailand forward,

Lets be clear here, even if Yingluk isn't in the next election and the next Pheu Thai PM is not a Shin, your Abhisit will still boycott, and Suthep will still try to block and the independents will still play games.

Because the problem isn't with Pheu Thai at all, it's the Democrats, the fake political front for the elites. People don't vote them into power. Why do you think they had to rig the Senate? There was no change that could be made to the Senate that would have given them an electoral win, so they removed the election part completely from half the Senate!

Why do you think they pretend it's 'reform' and refuse to say what changes they want to make? Because the change they want to make is to appoint the Cabinet, i.e. an unelected government the way they 'reformed' the Senate to be largely unelected.

Thaksin and his governments (incl. YLs) have been in power for a long time in political terms.

Thailand is seriously screwed up. about this there is little dispute. The responsibility, by definition, rests with those who had the authority and mandate, as well as the legal and moral responsibility to act in Thailands best interests. There has been a gross dereliction of duty, and the finger can, by definition, be pointed at those with whom the reigns of power rested.

Blaming everyone else constantly is a characteristic of the weak minded Red supporters here at TV, reading from the Red playbook, and weak minded is a polite way to describe some of the mindless, illogical and provably false drivel posted here.

It is largely hilarious, and allows me to pass the time while waiting for aircraft and other dead-times.

Carry on regardless,

Edited: Grammar

Edited May 8, 2014 by DrDweeb

[FlipSide]

I've just had a few days in CM in a hotel, watching the world news on Yingluck's case unfold on BBC, Aust TV, French and I think Asia TV, who all had tilted their stories to never mention the nepotism or Shin's corruptions, inviting 'experts' to comment, who were all clearly biased paid Shin cronies, it was disgusting. This is not independent journalism!

When is the world going to wake up to the basic facts that the World corporate news is just paid PR, & in this case the Shin's have the support of the Neo Con-trolled international press, because Mr Square Face is their puppet for controlling & opening up the Asean on their behalf to let the biggest corp's run free owning their own US based companies. So the greedy Dunkin Donuts & Diet Pepsi's & the crappy US processed poisonous foods, the greedy Big banks, the Big lawyers, the big Agro, Big Pharma, Big War, Big energy, etc. can freely operate all through Asean, destroying the health & economy here like they have already done to the US & Europe, and before China can get in. Follow the money behind the Red Shirts & it comes from the Neo Cons. The international mainstream

news about Thailand is total rubbish. Wake up

[SheungWan]

I've just had a few days in CM in a hotel, watching the world news on Yingluck's case unfold on BBC, Aust TV, French and I think Asia TV, who all had tilted their stories to never mention the nepotism or Shin's corruptions, inviting 'experts' to comment, who were all clearly biased paid Shin cronies, it was disgusting. This is not independent journalism!

When is the world going to wake up to the basic facts that the World corporate news is just paid PR, & in this case the Shin's have the support of the Neo Con-trolled international press, because Mr Square Face is their puppet for controlling & opening up the Asean on their behalf to let the biggest corp's run free owning their own US based companies. So the greedy Dunkin Donuts & Diet Pepsi's & the crappy US processed poisonous foods, the greedy Big banks, the Big lawyers, the big Agro, Big Pharma, Big War, Big energy, etc. can freely operate all through Asean, destroying the health & economy here like they have already done to the US & Europe, and before China can get in. Follow the money behind the Red Shirts & it comes from the Neo Cons. The international mainstream

news about Thailand is total rubbish. Wake up

I just woke up to read this total rubbish. Time to go get a Big Mac.