Is Alcohlics Anonymous run by christians?

[wanderluster]

i would like to thank all the members thathave tried there best to explain there experiences with AA or their ideas on the organization... i too was put off by the thought of havingto hear some religious ramblings... so never wantedto go,, even though i am an alkie... i might try it now,, as i can live with higher power,, or my own god,,, just hate organized religions,, as i believe them all to be cons...

1 big question i do have is ---- can i just go to try and get control of my drinking or do i have to quit???? i still love my booze

[Frank James]

If you decide to go to a meeting, I suggest that you go to more than one, because it's guaranteed that you will hear something in there that you won't like, that will give you the feeling that you were right, that this whole deal is a bunch of weirdos you wouldn't ordinarily hang out with, something like that. If drinking has become a problem in your life, going to these meetings might help you. Only one way to find out.

[Dogbreath]

Nothing is forced on anyone in AA. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Christians, Jews Muslims, Buddhists and atheists all have benefitted from the principles expressed in the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. The fact that AA has survived for nearly 80 years and has millions of members from all over the planet speaks well for the principles expressed. We demand nothing of anyone, not money or material contribution, notthing other than a desire to stop drinking and hopefully. an open mind. If you wnat what we have (a reasonably happy and sober life) then do what we do. If you have a better idea or just want to argue, good luck and God bless. It has worked for over thirty years for me and I am not religious although I believe in living by spiritual principles.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. This principle is, contempt prior to examination." Wm H. Poole

Good luck in your search for truth. Attend a few meetings and talk to other attendees and then make up your mind.

”I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

[maybefitz]

i would like to thank all the members thathave tried there best to explain there experiences with AA or their ideas on the organization... i too was put off by the thought of havingto hear some religious ramblings... so never wantedto go,, even though i am an alkie... i might try it now,, as i can live with higher power,, or my own god,,, just hate organized religions,, as i believe them all to be cons...

1 big question i do have is ---- can i just go to try and get control of my drinking or do i have to quit???? i still love my booze

Wander - A basic tenet of AA is one stops drinking. If you can control it; then you are probably not an alcoholic; best of luck to thee. People like me have to miss out on the first drink, one day at a time. Once the 1st has gone down the neck, a biological reaction sets in that says "more". One of the defining differences between us alkies and the 'normals'. lol. Whilst working as a practising piss-artist; I always thought that it was drink, 8 or 9 or 10 that caused the problem, when I puked, pissed myself, or took a wild swing at someone, or just fell over. "No," they told me, "It's the 1st drink that's the problem". Once I understood that, the rest dropped into place, the AA ideas and particularly the 12 steps.

They still influence the way I look at life, what's real, and I can actually achieve a quality of life without booze. It's now over 45 years, still active in AA - so it works long-time. Give it a try.

Edited May 14, 2014 by maybefitz

[cnx37]

"Deserted"

Maybe it is high time that you made a decision! Possible?

Of course, the majority of contributors to this post are members of AA & wish to practise AA principles in their daily life. That does not make sober AA members wowsers! It is an opportunity for a new life. Just by posting here, I suggest that you do not have a "life".

My experience (30yrs in the program w/o the need for a drink) is that the quality of sobriety in LOS is ***** (5 star)! I doubt that there is better in the world.

Sometimes, it is not easy! But, I have NEVER seen a member solve a problem by picking up a drink. They live life on life's terms. That is just the way it is.

What have you got to lose? - except your life? How is your self esteem - zero?

[Neeranam]

To be doomed to an alcoholic death(step 1) or to live on a spiritual basis(Step 2) are not always easy alternatives to face.

In 1938 there was one fellowship with about 40 members and as it happened they were mostly, but not all, Christians.

In 1939 the book Alcoholics Anonymous was published and some groups started to call themselves AA.

In 1944, AA had a proven recovery rate of 50-60%.

In 1955, AA had a 50% recovery rate and 25% recovered after some relapses so really there was a 75% recovery rate, and the fellowship was increasing at a rate of 20% per year.

This increasing has stopped and I believe that today has the same membership as in 1990.

Up until around 1970, the AA program, as in the Big Book and the fellowship were much the same. These days if you refer to the Big Book, or share that you know it, at a meeting, you'll be referred to as a Big Book thumper.

Today the success rate is around 1% which I find sad. I believe that many non-alcoholics are coming to AA these days is one reason. Many are coming too early. There is little humility in AA today. Some say to newcomers, "find God and find him NOW" - wrong advice IMHO. Find another alcoholic and talk to him. Be willing to go to ANY LENGTH to achieve sobriety.

The alcoholic problem is a 3 fold disease - mental obsession with alcohol, physical allergy and spiritual malady. On page 64 of the 'Big Book' it says that when the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically.

How do we straighten out spiritually? We apply the 12 steps of the AA recovery program to our lives. The 12 steps are a group of principles, spiritual in nature.

If you don't believe in the 12 steps of AA, please stay away from our meetings with your own program. If there isn't a power higher than you or you are too rational, there are many other programs.

[cnx37]

The odds are not great in AA BUT compare the odds to your current style.

Who gives a rat's a..e if AA is run by christians or not? It seems that you are the only one here who is making an issue of it.

Of course there are some "BB" thumpers & "holy rollers' within the program. It is not your mission to "convert" them & vice versa.

As they say - "it is a simple program for complicated people" - ring a bell?

[Emster23]

AA has the hallmarks of religion, at least in a Western sense. It doesn't matter what your higher power is, they say. Hmmm. Seems the idea is to get a mental sense in the participant that they are a "lower power". Similar to oiginal sin. No dogma, brainwashing? Try going to a meeting and saying "I drink too much alcohol, but I am not an alcoholic. Drinking is a behavior, not a disease". Or "I was an alcholic, but quit 20 years ago. I am cured. I am no longer an alcoholic". Heresy. And the chant "keep coming back: it works" but according to earlier post success rate now is 1%.

And why the aversion to combining medicine with meetings? Religions don't like to adapt to anything that doesn't fit their "solution".

According to last study done (1988 I think) AA has no higher rate of "curing" than any other program, including going cold turkey (5%).

My view is it swapping one addiction for another. Fine if you want to delude yourself and pretend it isn't a religion, but in my opinion it is, and like almost all religions, is there to make happy slaves of those afraid of freedom and responsibility for their own lives and choices.

[nycjoe]

i would like to thank all the members thathave tried there best to explain there experiences with AA or their ideas on the organization... i too was put off by the thought of havingto hear some religious ramblings... so never wantedto go,, even though i am an alkie... i might try it now,, as i can live with higher power,, or my own god,,, just hate organized religions,, as i believe them all to be cons...

1 big question i do have is ---- can i just go to try and get control of my drinking or do i have to quit???? i still love my booze

Just show up and see if you like it, the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Try to come to meetings sober though. The desired outcome is to stay sober for one day at a time,

[silent]

I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

How's this sound then. "Like everything else there's nothing to fear about AA except fear itself", which sounds more like what the problem is here, than the fear / excuse of having religion shoved down one's throat and the fear of failing. Which is really what AA is all about.

Twelve steps to helping find confidence and overcome inherent fears of the unknown, (which happens to be another great excuse for self medicating).

No sir I'm not a member and I'm definitely not religious, but I believe the God referred to is the readers digest version for God helps them what helps themselves and don't just make excuses for failures.

Your God should be yourself, but then, there's no room for excuses and nobody else to blame.

[sdanielmcev]

Yes, AA is a Christian organization. Why not just say it? Or did you not learn denial is not a good thing through AA. And, what is with the recruiting going on here? That's a no-no, and you know it. What the 2 Bills set up a Christian way for people to privately confront their demons, and turn themselves into better humans, not go bragging about being sober. AA is not for everybody, and not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

I myself am not an alcoholic, yet I can drink like a fish. I also consulted with many members of AA when AA wasn't working for them.

If you want to talk to the OP about joining, PM him, otherwise keep the discussion about religion, please.

[GOLDBUGGY]

No!

AA has no religion. You only need to believe in a power greater than yourself. Whether it is Christ, Buddha, or an Alien from another planet or part or the universe.

Perhaps the first step is looking into this,

The next is to go.

I am sure you will be welcomed no matter if you have religion or not.

[Neeranam]

AA has the hallmarks of religion, at least in a Western sense. It doesn't matter what your higher power is, they say. Hmmm. Seems the idea is to get a mental sense in the participant that they are a "lower power". Similar to oiginal sin. No dogma, brainwashing? Try going to a meeting and saying "I drink too much alcohol, but I am not an alcoholic. Drinking is a behavior, not a disease". Or "I was an alcholic, but quit 20 years ago. I am cured. I am no longer an alcoholic". Heresy. And the chant "keep coming back: it works" but according to earlier post success rate now is 1%.

And why the aversion to combining medicine with meetings? Religions don't like to adapt to anything that doesn't fit their "solution".

According to last study done (1988 I think) AA has no higher rate of "curing" than any other program, including going cold turkey (5%).

My view is it swapping one addiction for another. Fine if you want to delude yourself and pretend it isn't a religion, but in my opinion it is, and like almost all religions, is there to make happy slaves of those afraid of freedom and responsibility for their own lives and choices.

Most of this post is totally wrong.

AA is for alcoholics not 'drinkers'/ Alcoholism is a disease according to the medical experts.

What aversion to mixing medicine with meetings?

[Neeranam]

Yes, AA is a Christian organization. Why not just say it? Or did you not learn denial is not a good thing through AA. And, what is with the recruiting going on here? That's a no-no, and you know it. What the 2 Bills set up a Christian way for people to privately confront their demons, and turn themselves into better humans, not go bragging about being sober. AA is not for everybody, and not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

I myself am not an alcoholic, yet I can drink like a fish. I also consulted with many members of AA when AA wasn't working for them.

If you want to talk to the OP about joining, PM him, otherwise keep the discussion about religion, please.

Why on earth would a non alcoholic consult with many members of AA? Do you mean you consulted with druk AA members?

It was one Bill and one Bob.

AA is not a Christian organization, where did you get that information?

Recruiting?

Have you had anything to drink today?

[Neeranam]

double post

Edited May 14, 2014 by Neeranam

[GOLDBUGGY]

I disagree. I think there is a hidden agenda and it is obvious in the language used. As I have said repeatedly, it is there for a reason. Why use it otherwise? I don't doubt that good comes out of the program but from this thread the reasons behind that aren't well understood nor am I. I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

How's this sound then. "Like everything else there's nothing to fear about AA except fear itself", which sounds more like what the problem is here, than the fear / excuse of having religion shoved down one's throat and the fear of failing. Which is really what AA is all about.

Twelve steps to helping find confidence and overcome inherent fears of the unknown, (which happens to be another great excuse for self medicating).

No sir I'm not a member and I'm definitely not religious, but I believe the God referred to is the readers digest version for God helps them what helps themselves and don't just make excuses for failures.

Your God should be yourself, but then, there's no room for excuses and nobody else to blame.

No Sir! You are absolutely and completely wrong about this.

If Your God is yourself then it was he who got you into all this trouble in the first place. It was your self control that you were going to use to stop drinking which failed time after time. It was you who decided to have that short drink as a reward for not drinking that week, but only one, which turned into a 3 day bender!

No Sir! It is you realizing that this left in your own hands you were a failure, and will continue to be time after time. That is why Insane is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

It is you discovering that there is a higher power than yourself out there who can help you to quit drink, gives you any chance at all. Without this realization and thinking you still can stop drinking on your own you are not ready for AA. You are ready for prison or the insane asylum. Or maybe a good night full of the DT's and waking up in withdraw in a straight jacket, to realize you can't do it on your own?

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

i would like to thank all the members thathave tried there best to explain there experiences with AA or their ideas on the organization... i too was put off by the thought of havingto hear some religious ramblings... so never wantedto go,, even though i am an alkie... i might try it now,, as i can live with higher power,, or my own god,,, just hate organized religions,, as i believe them all to be cons...
1 big question i do have is ---- can i just go to try and get control of my drinking or do i have to quit???? i still love my booze

Nobody is going to try and make you quite. Go after a few beers if you like. Many come drunk the first time, as I was told. It is not a club you can get kicked out of for drinking, Many of the AA Members a slip themselves but continue to come with open arms. They have all been down that road before you so it is easy for them to understand.

But you also must of heard that "Once an Alcoholic always an Alcoholic". If you are you can never get control of your drinking again. Drinking has the control over the Alcoholic! So unless you stop drinking it will always control you,

But nobody says you have to do that right away or ever. Go after a few drinks if you like or feel the need. Go on different nights to meet different groups then go to the one you like the most. You don't even have to, or are expected to, participate. Just listen in and see if you can't see yourself in a lot of there conversation. In the worst case scenario you will just meet a bunch of friendly nice people who that if you ever need one day, they will be their. .

[sdanielmcev]

Yes, AA is a Christian organization. Why not just say it? Or did you not learn denial is not a good thing through AA. And, what is with the recruiting going on here? That's a no-no, and you know it. What the 2 Bills set up a Christian way for people to privately confront their demons, and turn themselves into better humans, not go bragging about being sober. AA is not for everybody, and not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

I myself am not an alcoholic, yet I can drink like a fish. I also consulted with many members of AA when AA wasn't working for them.

If you want to talk to the OP about joining, PM him, otherwise keep the discussion about religion, please.

Why on earth would a non alcoholic consult with many members of AA? Do you mean you consulted with druk AA members?

It was one Bill and one Bob.

AA is not a Christian organization, where did you get that information?

Recruiting?

Have you had anything to drink today?

(Heavy sigh!) You didn't understand what I wrote. I drink alcohol, but am not an alcoholic. I get drunk, but I'm not an alcoholic....Get the drift?

And, you aren't reading others' post if you think that is not recruiting. Shame on you!

As I stated, AA is not for everyone, and one of the problems with AA, like any other organization, is the pressure the people have put upon them. (At least they feel that way.) Can make them start again. They are able to talk to me about why AA isn't working for them. You got a problem with that?

AA is a Christian organization. Don't like it? Don't blame me.

And you last sentence, while incorrect, shows your own weakness. I certainly hope you don't sponsor anyone with that attitude. Maybe you need my counseling. It's free, btw.

AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better.

Edited May 14, 2014 by sdanielmcev

[sdanielmcev]

i would like to thank all the members thathave tried there best to explain there experiences with AA or their ideas on the organization... i too was put off by the thought of havingto hear some religious ramblings... so never wantedto go,, even though i am an alkie... i might try it now,, as i can live with higher power,, or my own god,,, just hate organized religions,, as i believe them all to be cons...

1 big question i do have is ---- can i just go to try and get control of my drinking or do i have to quit???? i still love my booze

As to your question; yes. Doubtful AA is the place to get it under your control, but give it a try. The basic tent of AA, or any program that doesn't use drugs to "cure" is responsibility to yourself. Just because you drink does not make you an alcoholic. It isn't about the first, second, or millionth drink, it is about saying no to yourself.

[big carl]

Yes, AA is a Christian organization. Why not just say it? Or did you not learn denial is not a good thing through AA. And, what is with the recruiting going on here? That's a no-no, and you know it. What the 2 Bills set up a Christian way for people to privately confront their demons, and turn themselves into better humans, not go bragging about being sober. AA is not for everybody, and not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

I myself am not an alcoholic, yet I can drink like a fish. I also consulted with many members of AA when AA wasn't working for them.

If you want to talk to the OP about joining, PM him, otherwise keep the discussion about religion, please.

Why on earth would a non alcoholic consult with many members of AA? Do you mean you consulted with druk AA members?

It was one Bill and one Bob.

AA is not a Christian organization, where did you get that information?

Recruiting?

Have you had anything to drink today?

(Heavy sigh!) You didn't understand what I wrote. I drink alcohol, but am not an alcoholic. I get drunk, but I'm not an alcoholic....Get the drift?

And, you aren't reading others' post if you think that is not recruiting. Shame on you!

As I stated, AA is not for everyone, and one of the problems with AA, like any other organization, is the pressure the people have put upon them. (At least they feel that way.) Can make them start again. They are able to talk to me about why AA isn't working for them. You got a problem with that?

AA is a Christian organization. Don't like it? Don't blame me.

And you last sentence, while incorrect, shows your own weakness. I certainly hope you don't sponsor anyone with that attitude. Maybe you need my counseling. It's free, btw.

AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better.

Perhaps if you want to make comments on AA you should go to it join in go often. Observe all the different people. Atheists Agnostics Muslims Jewish people and Christians. Talk to them listen to their story. Learn about the service structure. go to a few business meetings see what goes on in there.

All you do is sit around and listen to people telling why it won't work for them. The same stories we hear from people who are unwilling to do any thing other than twiddle their thumbs. Come late and leave early so they don't get to really know any body. Many of them come back much later a little less rich more outcast from society but willing to do what it takes to get and stay sober. Many of them have probably talked to you or some one like you in the time they were out there. What is this pressure that is put on us. I have never had pressure put on me. We often tell the new comers that the door swings both ways. If you want to go back out that it is OK if you want to come back in that is OK. Probably more than half have done just that. One of the buildings that I go to has a sign over the door saying keep coming back. No pressure. I have seen people do it for over 10 years. Also seen many die trying to do it their way.

I have seen many people come in and go back out just to return at a later date.I heard one talking about going through 15 treatment centers before he managed to quit drinking. Funny part is he was in an AA meeting after going through all those treatment centers with the professionally staff to help him. In the end it was just a bunch of drunks who don't drink any more that showered him how. Many come in with other problems that they need help with. We do not solve those problems for them. We show them how we got sober. Surprisingly many of those problems go away but there are some that don't and those people have to go to professional help for them. Alcohol is all we claim to help you quit the rest is up to you.

You claim

"AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better."

BS

All AA is about is getting and staying sober. We have a program which you are free to ignore to make your self better. It is an issue for you to choose to follow or not.. If you want to stay the same and not drink that is entirely up to you. If you want to be a better person that is entirely up to you we have a program for that which has helped many to become a better person. Entirely their choice.

[big carl]

Yes, AA is a Christian organization. Why not just say it? Or did you not learn denial is not a good thing through AA. And, what is with the recruiting going on here? That's a no-no, and you know it. What the 2 Bills set up a Christian way for people to privately confront their demons, and turn themselves into better humans, not go bragging about being sober. AA is not for everybody, and not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

I myself am not an alcoholic, yet I can drink like a fish. I also consulted with many members of AA when AA wasn't working for them.

If you want to talk to the OP about joining, PM him, otherwise keep the discussion about religion, please.

Why on earth would a non alcoholic consult with many members of AA? Do you mean you consulted with druk AA members?

It was one Bill and one Bob.

AA is not a Christian organization, where did you get that information?

Recruiting?

Have you had anything to drink today?

(Heavy sigh!) You didn't understand what I wrote. I drink alcohol, but am not an alcoholic. I get drunk, but I'm not an alcoholic....Get the drift?

And, you aren't reading others' post if you think that is not recruiting. Shame on you!

As I stated, AA is not for everyone, and one of the problems with AA, like any other organization, is the pressure the people have put upon them. (At least they feel that way.) Can make them start again. They are able to talk to me about why AA isn't working for them. You got a problem with that?

AA is a Christian organization. Don't like it? Don't blame me.

And you last sentence, while incorrect, shows your own weakness. I certainly hope you don't sponsor anyone with that attitude. Maybe you need my counseling. It's free, btw.

AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better.

Perhaps if you want to make comments on AA you should go to it join in go often. Observe all the different people. Atheists Agnostics Muslims Jewish people and Christians. Talk to them listen to their story. Learn about the service structure. Go to a few business meetings see what goes on in there.

All you do is sit around and listen to people telling why it won't work for them. The same stories we hear from people who are unwilling to do any thing other than twiddle their thumbs. Come late and leave early so they don't get to really know any body. Many of them come back much later a little less rich more outcast from society but willing to do what it takes to get and stay sober. Many of them have probably talked to you or some one like you in the time they were out there. What is this pressure that is put on us. I have never had pressure put on me. We often tell the new comers that the door swings both ways. If you want to go back out that it is OK if you want to come back in that is OK. Probably more than half have done just that. One of the buildings that I go to has a sign over the door saying keep coming back. No pressure. I have seen people do it for over 10 years. Also seen many die trying to do it that way.

I have seen many people come in and go back out just to return at a later date.I heard one talking about going through 15 treatment centers before he managed to quit drinking. Funny part is he was in an AA meeting after going through all those treatment centers with the professionally staff to help him. In the end it was just a bunch of drunks who don't drink any more that showered him how. Many come in with other problems that they need help with. We do not solve those problems for them. We show them how we got sober. Surprisingly many of those problems go away but there are some that don't and those people have to go to professional help for them. Alcohol is all we claim to help you quit the rest is up to you.

You claim

"AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better."

BS

All AA is about is getting and staying sober. We have a program which you are free to ignore to make your self better. It is an issue for you to choose to follow or not.. If you want to stay the same and not drink that is entirely up to you. If you want to be a better person that is entirely up to you we have a program for that which has helped many to become a better person. Entirely their choice.

Edit

I forgot to mention it is right in are big book. It say's AA does not have the only way.

If a person is a true Alcoholic and wants to really no holds barred quit and AA will not work for him try some of the other solutions that you will find in this thread. They all have some successes.

[wooloomooloo]

I don't think this is the right place to discuss such things and will not continue with this thread.

Don't waste our time then. Post #17 of your thread and you give up.

[impulse]

To anyone who wants to stop drinking- you'll notice that just about the only people posting here who have actually stopped, stayed stopped, and are happy about not drinking- seem to be the ones who recommend AA.

Others have opinions, others have reasons they won't go to AA, and still others have reasons they don't go back. Some of the posters don't have a drinking problem and feel no need to stop. And that's okay for them

But the only ones who have stopped and stay stopped-seem to be the ones who are recommending AA. And they also seem to be happy with their lives without the drink.

That's not to say there aren't other ways to stop drinking. There are.

But if I want to learn to climb a mountain, I'm taking my advice from someone who has actually climbed a mountain.

Edited May 14, 2014 by impulse

[cnx37]

I have just done a brief search on TV - AA, alcohol problems etc. There must be more than 100 topics related to this matter.

If you wish to get sober - stop drinking - whatever - JUST DO IT!

I do not think that the method/route matters that much - it is NOT a popularity contest.

Yes, the majority of posts here are from AA members - that speaks for itself.

Research suggests that AA has the highest success rate - for l/t sobriety. It was easy for me - I knew no other route! Even AA has a woeful success rate - less than 5%. That is OK. I am in the 5% club! (similar to the 30,000ft club???)

I would not consider a return to drinking - it is too painful! I have chosen the "easy, softer way" - AA. It is NOT easy (my personal experience) - that is life!

[impulse]

Even AA has a woeful success rate - less than 5%. That is OK. I am in the 5% club! (similar to the 30,000ft club???)

You make great points, and I'm not disagreeing with anything you've written.

On the "success rate", I think the judicial system in the USA drives it down nowadays. In the last decades, I've seen a lot of the people cycling through AA only because the judge requires it as a condition of reducing their sentence.

They get their attendance sheets signed at just enough AA meetings to satisfy the terms imposed by the judge, then they're gone. They never had intent to stop drinking- just to get the law off their back.

With about 1.2 million DUI arrests each year, not to mention substance abuse offenders, that's a lot of people cycling through AA. And the relapse rate of folks that never really intended to stop is pretty abysmal.

Edited May 15, 2014 by impulse

[big carl]

Even AA has a woeful success rate - less than 5%. That is OK. I am in the 5% club! (similar to the 30,000ft club???)

You make great points, and I'm not disagreeing with anything you've written.

On the "success rate", I think the judicial system in the USA drives it down nowadays. In the last decades, I've seen a lot of the people cycling through AA only because the judge requires it as a condition of reducing their sentence.

They get their attendance sheets signed at just enough AA meetings to satisfy the terms imposed by the judge, then they're gone. They never had intent to stop drinking- just to get the law off their back.

With about 1.2 million DUI arrests each year, not to mention substance abuse offenders, that's a lot of people cycling through AA. And the relapse rate of folks that never really intended to stop is pretty abysmal.

Not only for alcohol and drug abuse. The courts on the East Coast were sentencing any body and every body to AA. that was the reason they printed the blue card in the late 80s.

I can remember going to meetings where there was hardly any room in the basket to throw a dollar there was so many court slips.

Occasionaly a speaker would talk about when he had to go to get the slip signed and that was how he got started and was sober after the period of time was up still going to meetings and being sober. But that was a rare story.

[impulse]

Not only for alcohol and drug abuse. The courts on the East Coast were sentencing any body and every body to AA. that was the reason they printed the blue card in the late 80s.

Occasionaly a speaker would talk about when he had to go to get the slip signed and that was how he got started and was sober after the period of time was up still going to meetings and being sober. But that was a rare story.

I didn't see it that much in my first 10 years (Texas and California), but I spent quite a bit of time in Wyoming in the last 5-10 years, and it seemed like a revolving door with the court papers. I don't remember seeing the blue cards- that may have been an East Coast thing.

We had some meetings where they actually quit signing court papers- everyone was welcome, just not to get their papers signed. Some of the old guys also would sign the court slips before the meetings so the people wouldn't have to sit through a meeting. That was fine with me because it really made me uncomfortable talking about that thing with the chicken when I don't expect everyone to maintain anonymity.

And I have to admit- for the times I'd guess, "he'll make it" or "he won't be here next month", I was wrong on about 90%. Go figure.

[MrY]

A lot of hogwash posts here.

AA is a Christian organization, plain and simple. Established by Christians. Run by Christians. And headquartered in and Christian religious center.

Just because they attempt to lure/accommodate people of no faith or of other religions makes them no less Christian.

IMHO, they have largely been behind the gross distortion in American views towards alcohol and addiction, leading people to think they have no control over themselves. Even if you have never been to an AA meeting, you know the mantras as they permeate the American culture.

You are powerless against alcohol and addiction.

You are worthless.

Only G.O.D. (Group Of Drunks) can help you.

Notice on the success rate of AA: It seems to make no difference whether you walk in to an AA meeting voluntarily or are ordered to do so, the success rate historically remains at or below self help. The difference is that the ones that fail after being brainwashed be AA are now even less likely to ever recover having had the remainder of their spine and balls removed by the demoralizing hammering about your worthlessness. AA publishes no figures.

God help us all.

[MrY]

And if you've got 30 minutes to spend, here is funny but factual take on the subject:

Penn & Teller: Bullshit - Alcoholics Anonymous

[mesquite]

From AA's own literature:

"Alcoholics Anonymous® is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety."

So AA is not a Christian organization.

Since the program is anonymous, there are no accurate statistics. No one can really say how many people are members of AA, they can only estimate. The same is true for the success rate.

No one is forced to go to AA. Those who are "court ordered" are given a choice: Jail or AA. The courts do this, not AA. Many AA members are against this type of thing.

If you don't like AA, don't go. It's as simple as that.

Edited May 15, 2014 by mesquite