A decade wasted in the deep South

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
A decade wasted in the deep South
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The trust gap between state agencies and residents means we are no closer to ending the insurgency

We are 10 years into the current wave of conflict with Malay Muslim separatists, during which billions of baht in taxpayers' money has gone into beefing up security agencies, but the deep South seems little more safe or secure.

This week's twin bomb attacks in Hat Yai showed that the insurgents can hit just about any place, any time - even in broad daylight.

In the latest attacks they smuggled a bomb into a police compound, resulting in a massive explosion that destroyed more than a dozen vehicles and injured 10 people, luckily none of them seriously.

That the insurgents took their fight right into a police station's car park was nothing less a gesture of contempt for the authorities' sway in the region.

Insurgency has been called a form of communication between non-state actors and the state. Let's hope that our authorities got the message this time.

The attacks on Tuesday were not the first time insurgents have struck at the heart of security installations. Last December they launched simultaneous attacks on two police stations in Songkhla's Sadao district and a soi full of karaoke bars in Dan Nok, a mini-"sin city" that sits on the Malaysian border. Another bomb was parked at the back of a police station in Phuket, but it was discovered in time to defuse.

The past 10 years have seen many more such attacks on police stations and outposts in the three southernmost provinces. Disturbingly, though, authorities' operating procedures in the deep South have remained unchanged.

Policy and security planners, regardless of the government in power, always talk about improving coordination among agencies in the South.

That common-sense measure seems to bring little improvement in security.

We put up closed-circuit cameras, but that doesn't seem to deter the insurgents. The driver of the truck-bomb caught on CCTV during the Hat Yai attack managed to disguise his identity merely by donning a cap to cover his face as he walked away from the police compound. So much for preventive measures.

We put up roadblocks all over the deep South. Yet the stolen motorbikes and trucks used for the bomb attacks seemingly pass through the checkpoints with ease. The truck that was used in this week's Hat Yai bombing was stolen from Sai Buri district in Pattani.

Routine security measures, such as patrols and roadblocks, become nothing more than gestures to give the impression that something is being done.

There is also the problem of ineffective communication. The number of attacks on Tuesday varied, according to whether you gleaned your information from official sources or from the social media.

Officialdom numbered the Tuesday attacks at two, while some online reports counted 10, including at Hat Yai International Airport, which was not, in fact, targeted.

Unpoliced and unaccountable, the online social media are all too often sources of false or exaggerated claims.

Sadly, the proliferation of unofficial reports reflects the lack of trust citizens have for the official version of events.

The information gap also suggests that our authorities need to learn to communicate more effectively. Being transparent and honest is a good start if you want win the trust of the public.

-- The Nation 2014-05-10

[noitom]

Statements in this story don't make sense such as: "including at Hat Yai International Airport, which was not, in fact, targeted." Who is "offcialdom?" How do they know that Hat Yai International Airpport was not targeted?

This story is using terminology like "common sense", trust and honesty. Non of these characteristics are ever evident in Thailand.

[michaelscottfan]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure Thawil will turn things around any day now.

[NongKhaiKid]

Only a decade wasted in the south so what about all the other wasted years ?

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Only a decade wasted in the south so what about all the other wasted years ?

And places.

[chainarong]

There seems a systematic breakdown in all area's since Thaskin Shinawatra, how Thailand has survived shows how strong the economy base has been , this has only been brought about by the business themselves, not through government, the South has been a back water for BKK for sometime , they do not seem to grasp the situation like most initiated PTP programs , they talked a lot of Bulls!!t but never seemed to achieve anything, there is a reluctance from the administrations of all governments past and present , to admit that they need help, instead of bleating to the UN about how badly treated the ACCC is treating them the PTP should have been asking for blue cap help, every-time an incident happens , you see the police /military boys all out with yellow chalk and measuring tape, nothing achieved , the only ones that are benefiting, are those manufacturing these products.

[boomerangutang]

Here's something that might be significant in healing wounds:

Prosecute army brass who oversaw the death of over 70 young Muslim men who were in custody. It happened while Thaksin was PM (the 'CEO', remember?). From the time of an earlier killing of Muslims by army, T had made it clear that he was #1 in charge. He gave the top brass his tel# and told them to call him if there were any tough decisions. Those 70+ men who died in custody, were killed via very bad decisions from the top down.

Yet, no one has ever been disciplined for those deaths. If there was a fair trial for those involved, then that would go a long way to easing tensions in southern Thailand.

Also: promotions by payment and social connections are standard in the Thai military (and all other factions). Piss-poor decisions by Thai military brass are proof of why it's a very bad criteria for promotions. Promotions, in Thailand, should be based on skills and intelligence, but they're not. That's yet another reason why Thailand has such poor quality leaders.

Edited May 10, 2014 by boomerangutang

[ggt]

The insurgents...do not believe their time has been wasted...killing innocent people is their goal...they have been quite successful...

[marko kok prong]

The biggest worry is if these insurgents as they are called,start to target tourist areas ,the bomb in Phuket a prime example,so far they have not,but as little progress seems to being made,they may well change their stratergy.

[fab4]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure Thawil will turn things around any day now.

He's already had 6 years at it, between 2005 and 2011, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Thawil and Somkiart had, since 2005, been working behind the scenes on peace talks overseen by a European mediator.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thawil-saga-reveals-Bangkok-not-serious-about-peac-30232695.html

Edited May 10, 2014 by fab4

[IMA_FARANG]

In 1900 an agreement between the Kingdom of Siam and the British Empire (Malaya) ceded some Malay provinces to Thailand for Thailand renouncing it's claim on certain Malay states on the East coast of Malaya. (now Malaysia)

That's how the Thais got control of those southern provinces of Thailand today.

For the first 30 years (roughly) from 1900 to roughly 1930 these provinces were ruled by the Thai administration, but they had a parallel Malay Moslem administration that controlled the education and court system. This separate Moslem system kept the locals happy with some local control of their dual Thai Muslim and Thai systems.

In the 1930/s a very nationalistic Thai military leader assumed control of the Thai government. This caused deep dissatisfaction in the Muslim areas, especially as the Muslim schools and civil administration were abolished by the Thai central government.

You can trace the beginnings of Muslim unrest and eventual terrorism back to that decision in the 1930's by the then military ruler of Thailand to curtail any of the joint government programs.

So, counting from 1930 to 2010, you can truthfully say, 80 years of lost opportunities in the South (of Thailand).

[Acharn]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure Thawil will turn things around any day now.

??? Why not Prayuth? Oh, I forgot, he's busy in Bangkok.

[Mentors]

10 years? It lasts since decades.

And no one in old Siam and today Bangkok was ever interested to listen to the needs of the deep Southerners.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Mentors

[Mentors]

The biggest worry is if these insurgents as they are called,start to target tourist areas ,the bomb in Phuket a prime example,so far they have not,but as little progress seems to being made,they may well change their stratergy.

Since a while im shure Phuket is on the table.

[Acharn]

The insurgents...do not believe their time has been wasted...killing innocent people is their goal...they have been quite successful...

We don't really know what their goals are. The "security" commands do not allow any of their political manifestos or announcements to be repeated. For some reason no foreign press has bothered to dig into this. In traditional insurgencies care is taken to not kill innocent people, except for bombings which are used to inspire distrust of the government. If you read the news stories you'll see most of the victims are connected to the government somehow. There are cases of poor rubber tappers being murdered, but who knows if that was insurgents or a private feud. When former PM Anand, still widely respected, conducted an investigation seven or eight years ago he reported that at least half the violence was related to private business conflicts and drug trafficking. Also, in traditional insurgencies, organizations quickly claim responsibility for incidents. If a bomb is set off in Yemen, 20 organizations, including Al Qa'ida in the Arabic Peninsula will rush to claim credit. If any of these supposed "separatist" organization in the South do, the news is suppressed with 100% effectiveness, which seems improbable. Very puzzling, and of course no government or military officer can admit that he doesn't know what to do.

[Mackie]

In this particular case there is nothing Thailand can do about it. There are plenty examples all over the world about Sunni Muslims insurgency. I have never seen any peaceful agreement achieved with Sunni extremists. Wherever they are, there is carnage, death, kidnappings, suicide bombings etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

[Morch]

Not like similar conflicts around the globe were solved in a blink of an eye, if at all.

These things either take a very long time, or depend on emergence of unique leaders.

[wandasloan]

.....

Yet, no one has ever been disciplined for those deaths....

... through a government that overthrew Thaksin for his conduct, and another government that was/is bitterly opposed to Thaksin in all ways. And of course yet another government that was pro-Thaksin. Four governments, two of them opposed to Thaksin, one of whom ousted the Thaksin government at gunpoint. No discipline. It's not a problem, it's shameful. You would think there was some kind of conspiracy at some sort of high level somewhere to protect the power and the glory of serving the deep South, and never rock the power boat.

.....

... If there was a fair trial for those involved, then that would go a long way to easing tensions in southern Thailand.

Even one measly little trial! Just one. Even if it were obviously a sop, trying a couple of lieutenants and a captain.

Hear hear.

Two voices shouting into the wind, though.

We don't really know what their goals are. The "security" commands do not allow any of their political manifestos or announcements to be repeated. For some reason no foreign press has bothered to dig into this. In traditional insurgencies care is taken to not kill innocent people, except for bombings which are used to inspire distrust of the government. If you read the news stories you'll see most of the victims are connected to the government somehow. [snip] [snip]

I'm sorry but pretty well All Of The Above is wrong. The security commands cannot stop you from finding the manifestos and announcements in 2014. The foreign media and more have dug extensively into it and published widely - but not popularly I suppose, and so you must search out articles and books by the likes of McCargo and Melvin and Jory. Even if you ONLY read "Tearing Apart the Land" you would be thousands of times better informed than the above.

More Muslims have been killed in the deep South violence than government by a long shot, and including all Buddhist fatalities in terrorism or accidents, Muslims are still a majority. And your view of "traditional insurgencies" is very wrong. If anything, the gangs in the South of Thailand take fewer innocent lives than most of those insurgencies you want to cite.

[snip] [snip] etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Oh my. I guess you don't follow news of the South. What you say doesn't happen, in fact, happens. Frequently. Often. I don't have time to do chapter and verse on this, but here is the first photo I found on my own personal computer from a couple or three months ago. It is in Narathiwat, which is in the deep South. The banner says "We condemn groups who use violence."

Saudi Arabia stopped funding EVERYTHING in Thailand years ago, and so did Libya before that. If you think this southern "problem" is because of outsiders, you are sadly, badly, madly mistaken. (Except that, obviously, some Malaysian citizens are involved.)

If you are so concerned about this (and I wish everyone was), please do basic research on it so you come across as reasonably informed.

.

Edited May 10, 2014 by wandasloan

[bigbamboo]

Not just a decade and not just the deep south.

Thailand really needs to get itself into gear before it's too late.

[simple1]

In this particular case there is nothing Thailand can do about it. There are plenty examples all over the world about Sunni Muslims insurgency. I have never seen any peaceful agreement achieved with Sunni extremists. Wherever they are, there is carnage, death, kidnappings, suicide bombings etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

[wandasloan]

Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

Good question, but wrong assumption most of the way through. You are saying (or granting to Khun mackie) that the conflict in the South is driven by, or partly motivated by religious extremism. And actually, THAT is what everyone including the US State Department finds no proof of. The gangs and groups in the South happen to be Muslims. They don't use that in their statements or propaganda. They have no aim to set up an Islamic state. They do not recruit by use of the religion. They are an ethnic group whose territory was carved off and subsumed by Thailand (Siam as they insist), and THAT is what they don't like.

At no time, in no way, have any of these groups ever used religion as complaint or justification. Every Pulo/BRN/etc official says there is no problem with practice or freedom of religion, but they don't want Siamese occupation.

The US and many others have it backwards.

The lack of religious motivation in the entire "struggle" of these separatists is WHY there is no indication of outside ties or help.

There is no more help from, say, Jemaah Islamiya or al-Qaeda for the gangs in southern Thailand than there is help from these groups for the PDRC of Mr Suthep - and for exactly the same reason. Religion and religious freedom is not an issue. The euphemistic "problem" in the South is ethnic and racial and historical, and does not touch on the religion in any important manner.

Tiny example. When the field commander Hambali of Jemaah Islamiyah went on the run in 2003 because Indonesia finally got serious about anti-terrorism, he fled to Thailand to try to find shelter and hide out. There was zero welcome for that Islamist extremist in the deep South. (Or anywhere else. Not only did Muslims throughout ALL of Thailand shun him, Ayutthaya Muslims turned him in when he turned up and tried to pray at their mosque. That is why he's in Guantanamo.)

The Philippines but particularly Aceh had far different problems than are present in Thailand's South. It may be that some kind of autonomy will *also* stop the violence in Thailand, but it isn't because the Thai South wants an Islamic territory/state of the Aceh variety.

.

Edited May 10, 2014 by wandasloan

[Mackie]

In this particular case there is nothing Thailand can do about it. There are plenty examples all over the world about Sunni Muslims insurgency. I have never seen any peaceful agreement achieved with Sunni extremists. Wherever they are, there is carnage, death, kidnappings, suicide bombings etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

THE INVOLVEMENT OF SALAFISM/WAHHABISM IN THE SUPPORT AND SUPPLY OF ARMS TO REBEL GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf

Not to mention that the current U.S Administration is actively cooperating with Takfiri and Wahhabi terrorists, a proven fact. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to justify cooperation with the very same people who killed and maimed thousands of U.S servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Mackie]

[snip] [snip] etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Oh my. I guess you don't follow news of the South. What you say doesn't happen, in fact, happens. Frequently. Often. I don't have time to do chapter and verse on this, but here is the first photo I found on my own personal computer from a couple or three months ago. It is in Narathiwat, which is in the deep South. The banner says "We condemn groups who use violence."

Saudi Arabia stopped funding EVERYTHING in Thailand years ago, and so did Libya before that. If you think this southern "problem" is because of outsiders, you are sadly, badly, madly mistaken. (Except that, obviously, some Malaysian citizens are involved.)

If you are so concerned about this (and I wish everyone was), please do basic research on it so you come across as reasonably informed.

narathiwatFeb14_sm.jpg

It is obvious to me that you haven't got the clue how things are working in the real world. You need to grow up a bit. There is no successful insurgency without having support from the local population. No one is saying that some Muslims in the deep South aren't against the insurgency. Yes, they are. But there is also considerable number of Muslims who support the insurgency so culprits NEVER get caught.

As for the Wahhabi movement not financing or stopped financing their operations across the South East Asia. .Grow up.

[wandasloan]

THE INVOLVEMENT OF SALAFISM/WAHHABISM IN THE SUPPORT AND SUPPLY OF ARMS TO REBEL GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf

Even the word "Thailand" does not appear in this report. Indonesia and the Philippines do. I already said why. Now what is your take on why Thailand is not even mentioned in this report, in any manner?

It is obvious to me that you haven't got the clue how things are working in the real world. You need to grow up a bit. There is no successful insurgency without having support from the local population. No one is saying that some Muslims in the deep South aren't against the insurgency. Yes, they are. But there is also considerable number of Muslims who support the insurgency so culprits NEVER get caught.

My apologies if this seems just to be a reply in kind to your nonsensical personal attack, but you didn't read or else you didn't comprehend a word I wrote. Here's what I wrote, in shorter words:

Islam is not an issue in the insurgency in the South. It's a non-starter. There is no outside aid to the southern Thai Muslims, because the southern Thai Muslims are not Islamist or anything of that kind. At all.

YOU said the southern Thais have to speak out against the insurgents. *I* said they do so, very frequently. And of course the gangs have their supporters just like every insurgency in the world. But the claim that the people of the deep South are silent in the face of brutality, intimidation, injustice, targeted and accidental killings and especially sheer terrorism is not just false, it's defamatory and a libel.

As for the Wahhabi movement not financing or stopped financing their operations across the South East Asia. .Grow up.

I don't understand why alleged "men" think childish personal attacks win arguments. You sound like a metro libertarian snapping shut his briefcase in alleged triumph, not like a man at all. It doesn't matter how young I seem to be, or how old. The question is whether the Wahhabi give aid/money/comfort/succour to the southern Thai insurgents/gangs and the answer to that question is a huge, loud "NO".

In fact, as YOUR report details clearly, the Wahhabi largesse flows into the Philippines and Indonesia. YOUR report details clearly it does NOT flow into Thailand (or Malaysia, Burma, Laos or Cambodia to name all border regions Wahhabi aid does not flow to insurgencies. That's not me, that is you saying that, in the report you provided. You're now arguing with yourself and your sources.

That is in addition to the fact that Saudis provide NOTHING to Thailand except visas for the Haaj and regular grief over the multiple disagreements caused by Thailand in the mid-1990s.

.

Edited May 10, 2014 by wandasloan

[simple1]

Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

Good question, but wrong assumption most of the way through. You are saying (or granting to Khun mackie) that the conflict in the South is driven by, or partly motivated by religious extremism. And actually, THAT is what everyone including the US State Department finds no proof of. The gangs and groups in the South happen to be Muslims. They don't use that in their statements or propaganda. They have no aim to set up an Islamic state. They do not recruit by use of the religion. They are an ethnic group whose territory was carved off and subsumed by Thailand (Siam as they insist), and THAT is what they don't like.

At no time, in no way, have any of these groups ever used religion as complaint or justification. Every Pulo/BRN/etc official says there is no problem with practice or freedom of religion, but they don't want Siamese occupation.

The US and many others have it backwards.

The lack of religious motivation in the entire "struggle" of these separatists is WHY there is no indication of outside ties or help.

There is no more help from, say, Jemaah Islamiya or al-Qaeda for the gangs in southern Thailand than there is help from these groups for the PDRC of Mr Suthep - and for exactly the same reason. Religion and religious freedom is not an issue. The euphemistic "problem" in the South is ethnic and racial and historical, and does not touch on the religion in any important manner.

Tiny example. When the field commander Hambali of Jemaah Islamiyah went on the run in 2003 because Indonesia finally got serious about anti-terrorism, he fled to Thailand to try to find shelter and hide out. There was zero welcome for that Islamist extremist in the deep South. (Or anywhere else. Not only did Muslims throughout ALL of Thailand shun him, Ayutthaya Muslims turned him in when he turned up and tried to pray at their mosque. That is why he's in Guantanamo.)

The Philippines but particularly Aceh had far different problems than are present in Thailand's South. It may be that some kind of autonomy will *also* stop the violence in Thailand, but it isn't because the Thai South wants an Islamic territory/state of the Aceh variety.

.

Actually I concur with your analysis, you've made incorrect assumptions regards my post. Maybe my error in articulation...

[wandasloan]

Actually I concur with your analysis, you've made incorrect assumptions regards my post. Maybe my error in articulation...

I'm supposed to be able to read. I'll accept the blame.

Well, maybe most of it, okay?. 5555

Explanation: I figured you knew what you were talking about BUT I also thought you were cutting Khun mackie too much slack and granting him points which aren't true. But thanks for the follow-up to clear it up.

.

[simple1]

Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

Good question, but wrong assumption most of the way through. You are saying (or granting to Khun mackie) that the conflict in the South is driven by, or partly motivated by religious extremism. And actually, THAT is what everyone including the US State Department finds no proof of. The gangs and groups in the South happen to be Muslims. They don't use that in their statements or propaganda. They have no aim to set up an Islamic state. They do not recruit by use of the religion. They are an ethnic group whose territory was carved off and subsumed by Thailand (Siam as they insist), and THAT is what they don't like.

At no time, in no way, have any of these groups ever used religion as complaint or justification. Every Pulo/BRN/etc official says there is no problem with practice or freedom of religion, but they don't want Siamese occupation.

The US and many others have it backwards.

The lack of religious motivation in the entire "struggle" of these separatists is WHY there is no indication of outside ties or help.

There is no more help from, say, Jemaah Islamiya or al-Qaeda for the gangs in southern Thailand than there is help from these groups for the PDRC of Mr Suthep - and for exactly the same reason. Religion and religious freedom is not an issue. The euphemistic "problem" in the South is ethnic and racial and historical, and does not touch on the religion in any important manner.

Tiny example. When the field commander Hambali of Jemaah Islamiyah went on the run in 2003 because Indonesia finally got serious about anti-terrorism, he fled to Thailand to try to find shelter and hide out. There was zero welcome for that Islamist extremist in the deep South. (Or anywhere else. Not only did Muslims throughout ALL of Thailand shun him, Ayutthaya Muslims turned him in when he turned up and tried to pray at their mosque. That is why he's in Guantanamo.)

The Philippines but particularly Aceh had far different problems than are present in Thailand's South. It may be that some kind of autonomy will *also* stop the violence in Thailand, but it isn't because the Thai South wants an Islamic territory/state of the Aceh variety.

.

Double post

Edited May 10, 2014 by simple1

[Mackie]

@Wandasloan, Simple 1...There is nothing personal in my posts. Your lack of knowledge and facts on the subject is simply astonishing. For heaven's sake, after all available evidence you still deny the Wahhabi links. Come to think of it, you're either purposefully lying or simply trolling here. Don't waste everyone's time here by denying obvious.

Southern Thailand and outside influences

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20180/southern-thailand-and-outside-influences/

Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism and the Spread of Sunni Theofascism

http://www.globalpolitician.com/default.asp?23661-saudi/

To keep denying that Wahabbists are not present in Thailand and have no influence is bordering on blatant lying. Get serious.

[wandasloan]

@Wandasloan, Simple 1...There is nothing personal in my posts. Your lack of knowledge and facts on the subject is simply

Khun Mackie, you are a HOOT! Nothing personal, heh.

@Wandasloan, Simple 1...There is nothing personal in my posts. Your lack of knowledge and facts on the subject is simply astonishing. For heaven's sake, after all available evidence you still deny the Wahhabi links. Come to think of it, you're either purposefully lying or simply trolling here. Don't waste everyone's time here by denying obvious.

Southern Thailand and outside influences

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20180/southern-thailand-and-outside-influences/

Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism and the Spread of Sunni Theofascism

http://www.globalpolitician.com/default.asp?23661-saudi/

To keep denying that Wahabbists are not present in Thailand and have no influence is bordering on blatant lying. Get serious.

So you absolutely refuse to address that European report that YOU chose which says the Wahhabi are funding, in Thailand, nothing? I want to make a big deal that you ignore YOUR source and pass on as if nothing happened. Because now I know you are just trolling and being intensely personal and nothing but. But I'm going to answer this ridiculous post above just to finish off your ridiculousness and that's it on this subject between you and me.

Second reference first. Like your European source, it says, specifically and exactly, that the Wahhabis are NOT involved in the Thai insurgency. For the second time YOUR source says the Wahhabi are NOT providing aid to the insurgency. The word "Thailand" is mentioned once. It is not about the insurgency.

Your first reference is a 2007 (!) column by Bangkokpundit, a switched-on guy. He said, according to YOUR link, that the Wahhabi are helping to finance a school (in 2007) in the South - maybe, possibly according to a source.

He then quotes a really weird website, World Politics Watch (in 2007!) which in turn quotes "a Western military analyst who has worked in Asia for many years, who spoke on condition of anonymity".

Now maybe this is true, maybe it's not. What is certain is that this link provided by you to this alleged World Politics Watch article ... no longer exists! This anonymous super-expert has been disappeared!

Now how reliable can you get? And how convenient can you get? A 2007 column quotes a very obscure website quoting a man it will not name who "believes" the southern insurgency is getting money from the Wahhabi. And that article has been withdrawn! How about that?

So you have a European source that doesn't even mention the word "Thailand". You have an egghead on the "Global Politician" site (whatever that is) who in 2007 mentioned Thailand one time, without reference to the insurgency. You have a Bangkokpundit column, also from 2007, about possible Wahhabi money for a school in the South. Finally, you have an indirect link to yet another 2007 article which doesn't exist, which apparently or maybe or possibly quoted this anonymous expert saying the Wahhabi are pouring money into the insurgency.

You claim that one article in 2007 said what you believe, but you can't find that article. No other article says that. And you have nothing from the past seven years of any kind.

Now listen, stop trolling now, okay? We're done on this subject.

.

[sae57]

I have a guess. Admitedly a wild guess, but perhaps worth considering. In the years prior to Thaksin, the far south was a special administrative region, giving a level of de facto autonomy, and for that period (a couple decades I think??) enjoyed relative peace. Autonomy, however, translated into neglect and the south languished in poverty while their cousins across the border in Malaysia prospered. A number of years ago when I was down there, the contrast looking accross the border was stunning. Neglect also meant the growth of powerful patronage networks, often criminal, maintaining "justice" and social order in lieu of functioning, trusted state organizations. Thaksin dismantled the special administrative status and proceded, along with development projects and funds, with the kind of forced assimilation that the Malayus had been resisting for a 70 or so years. That action prompted two reactions, the resurgance of the movement for autonomy (for some, independance and/or union with Malaysia--though I think from interviews that very few really want full separation from Thailand). The second reaction was push-back from the (criminal) patronage newtorks whose power was threatened by the rapid and poorly-planned imposition of Thai administration. (There was much resentment, e.g., over Bangkok Thais filling local administrative posts)

This second reaction (if it exists) would help to explain why "credit" is never claimed and demands are never made. What I suspect, is that when the police/army encroach on the activities of these networks, the bosses send their thugs out to wreak some havok as revenge and warning. This means, too, of course, that there is communication behind the scenes. Local commanders are caught between the need to show results to Bangkok and the need to please the indigenous godfather types. Given this hypothesis, the recent uptick in incidents may well be connected to the recent uptick in human trafficking busts.