Abhisit worries the political situation could escalate into a coup

[bkkfaranguy]

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Give us a break whats with the good cop bad cop BS, we all know that both Suthep and Abhisit answer to the same masters!

As you seem to know something that my self an many other members do not know

we all are eager to see the proof you have that this is a fact, not just your opinion

Now you would not be making this up would you

Its called follow the money and common sense, it always amazes me how many can acknowledge that YL and many of the reds are just puppets, (including myself) but at the same time they think the other side are as pure as the driven white snow with nothing but good intensions and totaly backed by there own means.

Here are some sipply facts for you:

80% of the top 40 wealthiest Thais are Thai Chinese

80% of the Thai stock market is controled by the Thai Chinese

These same people control the courts, military, police.

The list was made public a couple of months ago when the list of donors was made, which should give a good reference as to whom some of them are. Now not saying that all Thai Chinese are corrupt and want control, but this battle has always been about which elite side has control and can reap the benifits!

Please give the link to when this was "made public". Thanks.

It was made public back in January or February and was discussed in detail in the TV forum, try starting here or even try goggleing it.

[Stan7444]

The dems need a new leader.

Beyond me why the media even bother to quote this guy and the babble he espouses. He should put a lid on it.

Let me understand something: the Dems have a leader who has been formally charged in a court of law with murder and he has done nothing except to file law suits against the PTP, until 10 days ago when he parroted Suthep in his crazy demands for reforms before elections. I just hope the Dems do boycott the next polls and see what happens to their credibility then.

[cacruden]

Give us a break whats with the good cop bad cop BS, we all know that both Suthep and Abhisit answer to the same masters!

Not really, PM Abhisit answered to Suthep - which is the problem. Not sure what dance is going on now.

[city]

...as opposed to the judicial coup of last week.? A joke, Khun Abhisit. On this subject there is a very good op-ed piece in today's NYT, by Micheal Montesano " the prospects for Thai democracy ....in the post-Shinawatra era will hinge on the independence of the country's institutions and people's faith in them. But the partisanship displayed by the Constitutional Court this week undermines the legitimacy of such bodies in a way that will be felt long after the present crisis is over".

The scorn just keeps pouring on Abhisits head and he is fast driving the international media and opinion makers into the Red Camp.

This is how Most of Thailand and all of the world outside of the PDRC and its immediate fan base see it.

The international press’s condemnation of the Constitution Court’s decision has been almost universal. The Economist described the court’s decision as a “measure of quite how far Thailand has fallen”; the New York Times called it “a coup by another name”; andForeign Policy magazine derided the court as having a “dark, sordid history”. Not that any of this helps Thailand’s beleaguered democracy much.

In the last 24 hours a convoy of Thai Army armoured personnel carriers has been spotted on the move in Bangkok and the violent and thuggish PDRC have taken to the streets again, backed, once more, by the Eton-educated and British-born, Abhisit Vejjajiva, the leader of what Time magazine described as the “hilariously misnamed Thai Democrat Party”. As this post is being written, the PDRC – who have been ‘protected’ by Thai Army soldiers throughout almost their entire six month rally – have taken over TV stations and are trying to seize Government House in an attempt to impose an unelected and unconstitutional ‘Peoples Commission’ on Thailand.

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/05/elite-ready-to-destroy-thailands-democratic-gains/

This, this and this +100 For the elitist apologists on here. This is how the world sees the current crisis. These people are free press and have journalists with decades of experience in SE Asia politics. You dont have to listen to the red shirt oiks but when the NYT, Economist and alike start dowsing and contradicting all you write on this forum in support of an anti-democratic movement, its time to question what you are believing.

[Piichai]

Hold an election, no matter who wins = violence & blood in the streets.

Don't hold and election = violence & blood in the streets.

Appoint a "neutral" PM & cabinet = violence & blood in the streets.

Have a coup by the military = violence & blood in the street.

All roads lead to the same point.

All the options mentioned involve unilateral actions.

Maybe if the sides would try using their words (rather than slinging them at each other), things could be solved without (too much) bloodshed. Both seem unwilling, though, and still hold on to the delusion that they can "win".

Hardly. Abhisit has put forth his reform framework and invited PTP to discuss. Additionally, Abhisit has said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

But if they are part of the solution, they might get what they need.

[rreddin]

A coup would be the logical next step in Thailand's never ending political cycle.

This cycle, which is to the long term detriment of the country, can only be broken when the Ruling Elite accept that they no longer possess unfettered power and that some of their riches, obtained by the toil of the Thai people will be required as taxation in order to redress the country's huge wealth gap.

Mr. Suthep is living evidence that the Elite have not reached that point yet - and as they control the judiciary, the senate and most government ministries and the operate under a constitution that they railroaded through in 2007, there is life in them yet.

Will putting tanks of the streets of Bangkok achieve anything?

There are several problems with a coup. The most immediate problems the army would face are (1) it does not have enough troops to enforce it throughout the country; (2) the army top brass cannot be sure of the lotylaty of all of their soldiers, making problem (1) even more difficult; and (3) it will be resisted in several parts of the country. The top brass know the army will not have the support of the whole country and that they will be tested at every opportunity.

The best the army could do, without causing widespread bloodshed and setting the country on a rapid path to civil war, is to control Bangkok. However, they know that is futile because large parts of the country will ignore edicts coming from the puppet government the army would have to install and would become de facto autonomous regions.

Meanwhile, Thailand will become an international pariah. International aid and co-operation and military assistance will be suspended, with economic and political sanctions to follow and personal travel bans made by the EU, US and others against coup leaders and they key supporters.

While this is going on, the economy will tank with inbound tourism and exports being particularly hard hit. Thailand's economic woes will last several years whilst its competitors prosper.

Eventually there will have to be elections, which the PTP or their successors will win.

[Morch]

Hold an election, no matter who wins = violence & blood in the streets.

Don't hold and election = violence & blood in the streets.

Appoint a "neutral" PM & cabinet = violence & blood in the streets.

Have a coup by the military = violence & blood in the street.

All roads lead to the same point.

All the options mentioned involve unilateral actions.

Maybe if the sides would try using their words (rather than slinging them at each other), things could be solved without (too much) bloodshed. Both seem unwilling, though, and still hold on to the delusion that they can "win".

Hardly. Abhisit has put forth his reform framework and invited PTP to discuss. Additionally, Abhisit has said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

But if they are part of the solution, they might get what they need.

Might have been a choice of words (or bad reporting), but Abhisit's offer did seem to give the PDRC a rather prominent place in the reform making process, at the same time remaining unclear as to the identity of interim government and method of formation. To date, there is not even a real blue print of what the much talked about reforms include. And the PDRC been at it for months now....

Regardless of Abhisit not being a neutral mediator, or non-partisan, his offer was actually rejected by Suthep first...

[xminator]

How about the real headline? "Abhisit worries that he will not be prime minister again"

[Just1Voice]

How about the real headline? "Abhisit worries that he will not be prime minister again"

Nah, it should be: "Abhisit worries that he will become even more irrelevant than what he already is."

[peterquixote]

and yes it is little me alien, who pays his father in law that rice money Shinawatra renegued on.

that Shinawatra scum will not round up any more people to kill, it is his turn to look outward in fear,

even my father in law in Isaan who can not speak my language he says in Thai

never again the Shinawatra scum

[Piichai]

All the options mentioned involve unilateral actions.

Maybe if the sides would try using their words (rather than slinging them at each other), things could be solved without (too much) bloodshed. Both seem unwilling, though, and still hold on to the delusion that they can "win".

Hardly. Abhisit has put forth his reform framework and invited PTP to discuss. Additionally, Abhisit has said clearly and distinctly no one will get all that they want.

But if they are part of the solution, they might get what they need.

Might have been a choice of words (or bad reporting), but Abhisit's offer did seem to give the PDRC a rather prominent place in the reform making process, at the same time remaining unclear as to the identity of interim government and method of formation. To date, there is not even a real blue print of what the much talked about reforms include. And the PDRC been at it for months now....

Regardless of Abhisit not being a neutral mediator, or non-partisan, his offer was actually rejected by Suthep first...

The TVF Red Heads dismissed Abhisit's reform framework out of hand. But if one takes the time to study and think about it, and actually listen to what Abhisit says about it, one might find it's a little more nuanced than they were led to believe.

Without regard to what the Reds would have you believe, Abhisit isn't stupid; there's a very good reason why PTP run from any Abhisit debate. Yingluck may look cute in her braces and boots, but there is no way she can debate a juggernaut like Abhisit and not end up looking like a monkey.

Abhisit understands that the framework does not need to be one that everybody will like; he knows that the framework only needs to be one that those who want to make positive improvements to the country can work with.

And Abhisit said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

So what do we have?

Abhisit knows that PTP are afraid of Suthep, so Suthep is included in the framework. Now Abhisit has something with which to bargain.

Abhisit knows that Suthep wants what Suthep wants, so he includes a referendum through which the reforms must pass. Anything other than rubber-stamping Suthep's reforms drives him to the center, and Suthep most likely won't like that.

Suthep bails? No problem, it just puts more pressure on those in PTP that still have functioning brain cells.

And don't forget about the smaller parties; there are many reasons why they are considering participating in the framework.

For sure Thaksin doesn't want to have anything to do with the framework because it would certainly be the end of his game. But if PTP has anything going for it at all, there's a good chance of some cool heads that are interested in a better tomorrow.

[millwall_fan]

"Abhisit worries the Political Situation could escalate into a coup"

Worries? A coup has been the 'Democrats' objective since the beginning of the attempted insurrection.

[pkspeaker]

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

[Morch]

All the options mentioned involve unilateral actions.

Maybe if the sides would try using their words (rather than slinging them at each other), things could be solved without (too much) bloodshed. Both seem unwilling, though, and still hold on to the delusion that they can "win".

Hardly. Abhisit has put forth his reform framework and invited PTP to discuss. Additionally, Abhisit has said clearly and distinctly no one will get all that they want.

But if they are part of the solution, they might get what they need.

Might have been a choice of words (or bad reporting), but Abhisit's offer did seem to give the PDRC a rather prominent place in the reform making process, at the same time remaining unclear as to the identity of interim government and method of formation. To date, there is not even a real blue print of what the much talked about reforms include. And the PDRC been at it for months now....

Regardless of Abhisit not being a neutral mediator, or non-partisan, his offer was actually rejected by Suthep first...

The TVF Red Heads dismissed Abhisit's reform framework out of hand. But if one takes the time to study and think about it, and actually listen to what Abhisit says about it, one might find it's a little more nuanced than they were led to believe.

Without regard to what the Reds would have you believe, Abhisit isn't stupid; there's a very good reason why PTP run from any Abhisit debate. Yingluck may look cute in her braces and boots, but there is no way she can debate a juggernaut like Abhisit and not end up looking like a monkey.

Abhisit understands that the framework does not need to be one that everybody will like; he knows that the framework only needs to be one that those who want to make positive improvements to the country can work with.

And Abhisit said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

So what do we have?

Abhisit knows that PTP are afraid of Suthep, so Suthep is included in the framework. Now Abhisit has something with which to bargain.

Abhisit knows that Suthep wants what Suthep wants, so he includes a referendum through which the reforms must pass. Anything other than rubber-stamping Suthep's reforms drives him to the center, and Suthep most likely won't like that.

Suthep bails? No problem, it just puts more pressure on those in PTP that still have functioning brain cells.

And don't forget about the smaller parties; there are many reasons why they are considering participating in the framework.

For sure Thaksin doesn't want to have anything to do with the framework because it would certainly be the end of his game. But if PTP has anything going for it at all, there's a good chance of some cool heads that are interested in a better tomorrow.

I don't think Abhisit isn't smart or does not understand the political situation. I'm sure he does.

I do doubt his sincerity (comes with being a politician) and his commitment to play on level playing ground.

His plan got something for everyone, that's right. It also requires everyone to make some serious concessions, which so far far, are not in the cards. It is even hard to say if the offer is still of any relevance after the recent legal proceedings and near future events.

You say that Suthep bailing out puts more pressure on reasonable elements within the PTP - who might those be?

Not baiting, just really doesn't seem like anyone there is willing to deal or is in a position to make binding decisions.

[Morch]

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

I don't think he was entertaining this option, just making a point about Abhisit being politically savvy.

[Piichai]

Abhisit has already said he wouldn't run in the election after reforms.

What's stopping PTP from entering discussions; Suthep already bailed on the framework.

If PTP doesn't join the discussion, there's a good chance the country will carry on without them. That could indeed cause a fracture within the party between those loyal to Thaksin, and those thinking about tomorrow.

You can ignore it all you want, but PTP is in a very bad place. Not only is their power-base crumbling, there is party dissolution and 5-year bans for 300 or so of their best and brightest looming large in the very near future.

The absolutely best choice and best chance for PTP right now is to work with Abhisit's framework.

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

[ikke]

Abhisit is one of the most transparent, back-handed liars on the world stage today.

Well.....the competition is hard.....Whenever you think Abhisit looks bad, look at Surapong and Chalerm.....

Compared to Suthep and Abhisit, Surapong and Chalerm are cuties !

[Piichai]

Might have been a choice of words (or bad reporting), but Abhisit's offer did seem to give the PDRC a rather prominent place in the reform making process, at the same time remaining unclear as to the identity of interim government and method of formation. To date, there is not even a real blue print of what the much talked about reforms include. And the PDRC been at it for months now....

Regardless of Abhisit not being a neutral mediator, or non-partisan, his offer was actually rejected by Suthep first...

The TVF Red Heads dismissed Abhisit's reform framework out of hand. But if one takes the time to study and think about it, and actually listen to what Abhisit says about it, one might find it's a little more nuanced than they were led to believe.

Without regard to what the Reds would have you believe, Abhisit isn't stupid; there's a very good reason why PTP run from any Abhisit debate. Yingluck may look cute in her braces and boots, but there is no way she can debate a juggernaut like Abhisit and not end up looking like a monkey.

Abhisit understands that the framework does not need to be one that everybody will like; he knows that the framework only needs to be one that those who want to make positive improvements to the country can work with.

And Abhisit said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

So what do we have?

Abhisit knows that PTP are afraid of Suthep, so Suthep is included in the framework. Now Abhisit has something with which to bargain.

Abhisit knows that Suthep wants what Suthep wants, so he includes a referendum through which the reforms must pass. Anything other than rubber-stamping Suthep's reforms drives him to the center, and Suthep most likely won't like that.

Suthep bails? No problem, it just puts more pressure on those in PTP that still have functioning brain cells.

And don't forget about the smaller parties; there are many reasons why they are considering participating in the framework.

For sure Thaksin doesn't want to have anything to do with the framework because it would certainly be the end of his game. But if PTP has anything going for it at all, there's a good chance of some cool heads that are interested in a better tomorrow.

I don't think Abhisit isn't smart or does not understand the political situation. I'm sure he does.

I do doubt his sincerity (comes with being a politician) and his commitment to play on level playing ground.

His plan got something for everyone, that's right. It also requires everyone to make some serious concessions, which so far far, are not in the cards. It is even hard to say if the offer is still of any relevance after the recent legal proceedings and near future events.

You say that Suthep bailing out puts more pressure on reasonable elements within the PTP - who might those be?

Not baiting, just really doesn't seem like anyone there is willing to deal or is in a position to make binding decisions.

You're right, but a lot depends on how things roll out next week. I believe depending on the Senate's actions (or lack thereof) Abhisit's reform framework could gain more traction. Abhisit said he would not entertain changes to his framework, but he's a politician and suspect he's willing to negotiate.

The old guard at PTP can only do it Thaksin's way. Members willing to negotiate might be the less seasoned members that have been at the trough for a shorter time. And you're right again that they may not be in a position to make commitments, which makes me think that there is a chance of fracturing the party. But as a party and not just Thaksin's toadies, I do think it's their best choice for the future; after all, if they don't join the discussions, they won't be heard.

[pkspeaker]

Yea right, big concession that abhisit wont run in an election he has no chance of winning. and cut the 'reforms' crap please, your not speaking in a vacuum, 'reforms' means that an appointed governemnt takes over with full powers, and that the people doing the 'appointing' are basically the Democrat party establishment. Its not gonna happen, do you really think Abhisit can sneak that one through, like maybe no one will notice that a dictatorship came to power. You pdrc supporters are dreaming; even if a coup puts this unelected dictator and his council in power, they will be faced with an even bigger anti-govt protest.

5 year banns? a deputy simply takes over everytime these guys are banned, the courts will not be able to force the PT out of power and they may not even get Yingluck out.

The country is going to carry on w/o the real government, even though its still there and backed by capo, you can all just pretend that the caretaker govt is 'fake' but so is sutheps parallel government that he appointed at lumphini park and the only way a fully impowered PM is going to take over, it through the election.

Abhisit has already said he wouldn't run in the election after reforms.

What's stopping PTP from entering discussions; Suthep already bailed on the framework.

If PTP doesn't join the discussion, there's a good chance the country will carry on without them. That could indeed cause a fracture within the party between those loyal to Thaksin, and those thinking about tomorrow.

You can ignore it all you want, but PTP is in a very bad place. Not only is their power-base crumbling, there is party dissolution and 5-year bans for 300 or so of their best and brightest looming large in the very near future.

The absolutely best choice and best chance for PTP right now is to work with Abhisit's framework.

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

[FangFerang]

Abhisit worries it might become a coup -- what rubbish.

Abhisit HOPES it becomes a coup.

[Piichai]

It's a 5-ban today. Could be more after reforms. And considering the Senate vote was 96 to 51 for Surachai, it doesn't look good for Yingluck. And if it doesn't go well for Yingluck, it doesn't look good for the rest of PTP. After those 300 are gone, who's left?

PTP was invited to join the talks. If the party fractures and the smaller parties join in, where does that leave what's left of PTP?

And haven't you noticed that only the Reds are talking about Suthep anymore?

Yea right, big concession that abhisit wont run in an election he has no chance of winning. and cut the 'reforms' crap please, your not speaking in a vacuum, 'reforms' means that an appointed governemnt takes over with full powers, and that the people doing the 'appointing' are basically the Democrat party establishment. Its not gonna happen, do you really think Abhisit can sneak that one through, like maybe no one will notice that a dictatorship came to power. You pdrc supporters are dreaming; even if a coup puts this unelected dictator and his council in power, they will be faced with an even bigger anti-govt protest.

5 year banns? a deputy simply takes over everytime these guys are banned, the courts will not be able to force the PT out of power and they may not even get Yingluck out.

The country is going to carry on w/o the real government, even though its still there and backed by capo, you can all just pretend that the caretaker govt is 'fake' but so is sutheps parallel government that he appointed at lumphini park and the only way a fully impowered PM is going to take over, it through the election.

Abhisit has already said he wouldn't run in the election after reforms.

What's stopping PTP from entering discussions; Suthep already bailed on the framework.

If PTP doesn't join the discussion, there's a good chance the country will carry on without them. That could indeed cause a fracture within the party between those loyal to Thaksin, and those thinking about tomorrow.

You can ignore it all you want, but PTP is in a very bad place. Not only is their power-base crumbling, there is party dissolution and 5-year bans for 300 or so of their best and brightest looming large in the very near future.

The absolutely best choice and best chance for PTP right now is to work with Abhisit's framework.

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

[Morch]

Might have been a choice of words (or bad reporting), but Abhisit's offer did seem to give the PDRC a rather prominent place in the reform making process, at the same time remaining unclear as to the identity of interim government and method of formation. To date, there is not even a real blue print of what the much talked about reforms include. And the PDRC been at it for months now....

Regardless of Abhisit not being a neutral mediator, or non-partisan, his offer was actually rejected by Suthep first...

The TVF Red Heads dismissed Abhisit's reform framework out of hand. But if one takes the time to study and think about it, and actually listen to what Abhisit says about it, one might find it's a little more nuanced than they were led to believe.

Without regard to what the Reds would have you believe, Abhisit isn't stupid; there's a very good reason why PTP run from any Abhisit debate. Yingluck may look cute in her braces and boots, but there is no way she can debate a juggernaut like Abhisit and not end up looking like a monkey.

Abhisit understands that the framework does not need to be one that everybody will like; he knows that the framework only needs to be one that those who want to make positive improvements to the country can work with.

And Abhisit said clearly and distinctly that no one will get all that they want.

So what do we have?

Abhisit knows that PTP are afraid of Suthep, so Suthep is included in the framework. Now Abhisit has something with which to bargain.

Abhisit knows that Suthep wants what Suthep wants, so he includes a referendum through which the reforms must pass. Anything other than rubber-stamping Suthep's reforms drives him to the center, and Suthep most likely won't like that.

Suthep bails? No problem, it just puts more pressure on those in PTP that still have functioning brain cells.

And don't forget about the smaller parties; there are many reasons why they are considering participating in the framework.

For sure Thaksin doesn't want to have anything to do with the framework because it would certainly be the end of his game. But if PTP has anything going for it at all, there's a good chance of some cool heads that are interested in a better tomorrow.

I don't think Abhisit isn't smart or does not understand the political situation. I'm sure he does.

I do doubt his sincerity (comes with being a politician) and his commitment to play on level playing ground.

His plan got something for everyone, that's right. It also requires everyone to make some serious concessions, which so far far, are not in the cards. It is even hard to say if the offer is still of any relevance after the recent legal proceedings and near future events.

You say that Suthep bailing out puts more pressure on reasonable elements within the PTP - who might those be?

Not baiting, just really doesn't seem like anyone there is willing to deal or is in a position to make binding decisions.

You're right, but a lot depends on how things roll out next week. I believe depending on the Senate's actions (or lack thereof) Abhisit's reform framework could gain more traction. Abhisit said he would not entertain changes to his framework, but he's a politician and suspect he's willing to negotiate.

The old guard at PTP can only do it Thaksin's way. Members willing to negotiate might be the less seasoned members that have been at the trough for a shorter time. And you're right again that they may not be in a position to make commitments, which makes me think that there is a chance of fracturing the party. But as a party and not just Thaksin's toadies, I do think it's their best choice for the future; after all, if they don't join the discussions, they won't be heard.

Well, the lot might be scraped anyway if Abhisit's professed worries will become a reality.

Otherwise, the issues are indeed who is willing and who is able to negotiate.

I do not expect any immediate dissent in PTP ranks, though.

[pkspeaker]

Oh!yea i forgot- 'reforms'.. you mean like an amendment to the constitution that would increase certain penalties? yea well that has to be done through the parliament after the election. .it doesn't just happen from sutheps council and magically appear in the law, and even if the courts keep sacking these guys on bogus charges, that doesn't turn that seat over to the opposition, another PT deputy replaces him, the courts cannot change the balance of power in the parliament using this tactic, and it's doubtful that the nacc will try ti impeach that many MPs.

It's a 5-ban today. Could be more after reforms. And considering the Senate vote was 96 to 51 for Surachai, it doesn't look good for Yingluck. And if it doesn't go well for Yingluck, it doesn't look good for the rest of PTP. After those 300 are gone, who's left?

PTP was invited to join the talks. If the party fractures and the smaller parties join in, where does that leave what's left of PTP?

And haven't you noticed that only the Reds are talking about Suthep anymore?

Right Piichai! Yingluck and Abhisit debate and then she's gonna look stupid. OK fine, Abhisit runs in the election and in return he will get to debate Yingluck live on TV, then everyone will see how stupid she is and vote for him right?

WRONG! In fact abhisit will not agree to that solution because then he would have to support an election instead of trying to push through a dictatorship labled "reform"

[Arkady]

A coup would be the logical next step in Thailand's never ending political cycle.

This cycle, which is to the long term detriment of the country, can only be broken when the Ruling Elite accept that they no longer possess unfettered power and that some of their riches, obtained by the toil of the Thai people will be required as taxation in order to redress the country's huge wealth gap.

Mr. Suthep is living evidence that the Elite have not reached that point yet - and as they control the judiciary, the senate and most government ministries and the operate under a constitution that they railroaded through in 2007, there is life in them yet.

With due respect it is hard to depict Pheua Thai as a left wing party committed to redistributing wealth via higher tax rates and new taxes like property and inheritance tax. This govt has reduced income and corporation tax and made no noise on property and inheritance tax.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[peterquixote]

Another change of attitude from this imposter!

Sutep must have torn him a new one after he dared try and isolate the dems from this fascist yellow rabble!

Arrest sutep and the fake monk and call for elections on the 20th of July .

I know the yellows don't want one because they will lose but it's better than blood in the streets!

it would be good if the stuttering parrot had a good think. what difference will the election make stutter parrot brain.

Why is it that farangs like me have to support the North East stutter

stutter its Suthep not sutep

The west has had a guts full and Thai currency drops every day, stutter red shirt stutter

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand has already exercised a judicial coup. The empty suit knows this but still postures his empty "secret" proposal.

Please explain how the removal of politicians from office who broke the law whilst acting in self interested nepotism is a "judicial coup"? The Supreme Administrative court and two lower level courts all found the act illegal. The Constitution Court made a decision that the illegal act was based on benefiting a family member, which it was, and for self benefit i.e putting one of the "family" in a key position. The defense case was pathetic.

Or are you one of those posters who believe Thaksin and all his clan are above and beyond the law and can do just as they please?

Note the court only removed those involved from office. Not those appointed afterwards or the party itself.

The way most 'legal' systems would look at this situation would be:

1. How was Thawil harmed? He was transferred to another position most likely without any loss of pay and benefits.

2. Does Thawil have legal avenues in which to contest his transfer? Yes, and he did. As a result of availing himself to the legal processes, he was reinstated to his prior position. In most countries, this would be the end of it.

3. Is nepotism such a serious breach of ethics that it warrants a person's removal from office? Not in my opinion and I would welcome other examples in democratic countries where a PM has been removed for 'nepotism'. And to remove nine more cabinet members is even more ludicrous.

One can compare this to the CC's court finding that those MPs who voted for a Constitutional Amendment to change the Senate to a fully elected body should be removed from office. How can a good faith effort to amend the Constitution be regarded as a crime? The court ruled that it was unconstitutional -- end of story. With the new coup initiated Constitution, there is no semblance of rational thought left.

Of course, now there is a problem when a relative is the best person for the job.

Maybe they should set independent tests to blind evaluate candidates. how did Mr. Thawil.get his position in the first place ?

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a post in which the reply was within the quoted post.

[pookiki]

Thailand has already exercised a judicial coup. The empty suit knows this but still postures his empty "secret" proposal.

Please explain how the removal of politicians from office who broke the law whilst acting in self interested nepotism is a "judicial coup"? The Supreme Administrative court and two lower level courts all found the act illegal. The Constitution Court made a decision that the illegal act was based on benefiting a family member, which it was, and for self benefit i.e putting one of the "family" in a key position. The defense case was pathetic.

Or are you one of those posters who believe Thaksin and all his clan are above and beyond the law and can do just as they please?

Note the court only removed those involved from office. Not those appointed afterwards or the party itself.

The way most 'legal' systems would look at this situation would be:

1. How was Thawil harmed? He was transferred to another position most likely without any loss of pay and benefits.

2. Does Thawil have legal avenues in which to contest his transfer? Yes, and he did. As a result of availing himself to the legal processes, he was reinstated to his prior position. In most countries, this would be the end of it.

3. Is nepotism such a serious breach of ethics that it warrants a person's removal from office? Not in my opinion and I would welcome other examples in democratic countries where a PM has been removed for 'nepotism'. And to remove nine more cabinet members is even more ludicrous.

One can compare this to the CC's court finding that those MPs who voted for a Constitutional Amendment to change the Senate to a fully elected body should be removed from office. How can a good faith effort to amend the Constitution be regarded as a crime? The court ruled that it was unconstitutional -- end of story. With the new coup initiated Constitution, there is no semblance of rational thought left.

Of course, now there is a problem when a relative is the best person for the job.

Maybe they should set independent tests to blind evaluate candidates. how did Mr. Thawil.get his position in the first place ?

I think the basic problem -and this would apply to any administration - is that the head of the National Security Council should be a cabinet level position subject to appointment and removal at the pleasure of the Prime Minister. The PM, whoever he/she is not only needs qualified people in cabinet level positions but people whose loyalty is certain. The is a basic principle in any democratic system. Nepotism is wrong but so is a structure of government that does not allow a PM to seek out people who will be loyal in carrying out policy decisions. All these problems devolve from the Constitution that the military imposed after the 2006 coup.

[BlueNoseCodger]

The way most 'legal' systems would look at this situation would be:

1. How was Thawil harmed? He was transferred to another position most likely without any loss of pay and benefits.

2. Does Thawil have legal avenues in which to contest his transfer? Yes, and he did. As a result of availing himself to the legal processes, he was reinstated to his prior position. In most countries, this would be the end of it.

3. Is nepotism such a serious breach of ethics that it warrants a person's removal from office? Not in my opinion and I would welcome other examples in democratic countries where a PM has been removed for 'nepotism'. And to remove nine more cabinet members is even more ludicrous.

One can compare this to the CC's court finding that those MPs who voted for a Constitutional Amendment to change the Senate to a fully elected body should be removed from office. How can a good faith effort to amend the Constitution be regarded as a crime? The court ruled that it was unconstitutional -- end of story. With the new coup initiated Constitution, there is no semblance of rational thought left.

Of course, now there is a problem when a relative is the best person for the job.

Maybe they should set independent tests to blind evaluate candidates. how did Mr. Thawil.get his position in the first place ?

I think the basic problem -and this would apply to any administration - is that the head of the National Security Council should be a cabinet level position subject to appointment and removal at the pleasure of the Prime Minister. The PM, whoever he/she is not only needs qualified people in cabinet level positions but people whose loyalty is certain. The is a basic principle in any democratic system. Nepotism is wrong but so is a structure of government that does not allow a PM to seek out people who will be loyal in carrying out policy decisions. All these problems devolve from the Constitution that the military imposed after the 2006 coup.

The NSC post *is* a civil servant level 11 (10?), and *is* an appointment at the pleasure and removal of the Prime Minister. Abhisit appointed him, and Prayuth too. Thawil is, as you can see from his PDRC stage visits, partisan.

I think this is all rather past now. Yingluk was in Central yesterday and people were greeting her like they greet their Prime Minister. As far as I'm concerned she is our elected PM and will be until we elect a new one. Which is, after all how the law works.

[pookiki]

The way most 'legal' systems would look at this situation would be:

1. How was Thawil harmed? He was transferred to another position most likely without any loss of pay and benefits.

2. Does Thawil have legal avenues in which to contest his transfer? Yes, and he did. As a result of availing himself to the legal processes, he was reinstated to his prior position. In most countries, this would be the end of it.

3. Is nepotism such a serious breach of ethics that it warrants a person's removal from office? Not in my opinion and I would welcome other examples in democratic countries where a PM has been removed for 'nepotism'. And to remove nine more cabinet members is even more ludicrous.

One can compare this to the CC's court finding that those MPs who voted for a Constitutional Amendment to change the Senate to a fully elected body should be removed from office. How can a good faith effort to amend the Constitution be regarded as a crime? The court ruled that it was unconstitutional -- end of story. With the new coup initiated Constitution, there is no semblance of rational thought left.

Of course, now there is a problem when a relative is the best person for the job.

Maybe they should set independent tests to blind evaluate candidates. how did Mr. Thawil.get his position in the first place ?

I think the basic problem -and this would apply to any administration - is that the head of the National Security Council should be a cabinet level position subject to appointment and removal at the pleasure of the Prime Minister. The PM, whoever he/she is not only needs qualified people in cabinet level positions but people whose loyalty is certain. The is a basic principle in any democratic system. Nepotism is wrong but so is a structure of government that does not allow a PM to seek out people who will be loyal in carrying out policy decisions. All these problems devolve from the Constitution that the military imposed after the 2006 coup.

The NSC post *is* a civil servant level 11 (10?), and *is* an appointment at the pleasure and removal of the Prime Minister. Abhisit appointed him, and Prayuth too. Thawil is, as you can see from his PDRC stage visits, partisan.

I think this is all rather past now. Yingluk was in Central yesterday and people were greeting her like they greet their Prime Minister. As far as I'm concerned she is our elected PM and will be until we elect a new one. Which is, after all how the law works.

Thanks for this useful information. But it only confuses me more how a court could rule that he removal was an 'abuse of power' when the PM -- any PM -- is given the absolute right to remove, transfer, or appoint. Yes, it is past. And it is most unfortunate that such a trivial issue can be used to remove a PM.