Thailand visa: Crackdown banning 'walk-in visa runs' to begin August 13

[thaiman]

Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

"We"?

Are you Thai? Or just another farang who thinks he's Thai?

Edited May 13, 2014 by thaiman

[bkkfaranguy]

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Sorry - this may be really clear to some, but not me!

Is it possible for a tourist (a real, genuine tourist) from the countries listed on the included list of nationalities, to come to Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt stamp, leave Thailand, and re-enter to get a second 30 day stamp, and do that a maximum of 3 times?

The article is very confusing in this respect as at the beginning it states - "The news follows the appearance of a formal notice posted on Bangkok Immigration’s website on May 8 stating that any persons who exit Thailand after completing a stay in the Kingdom on tourist-visa exemption status* are to be refused re-entry to Thailand."

BUT at the end it states - "“Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry."

Apologies again if i'm misreading the article, i'm just genuinely confused alt=blink.png>

Yes not clear to me as well, why would theycare how many times people come here for holiday in a years time? Many times I have come here on a 30 day exempt tourist visa stayed for a few days, done business in neighboring countries and came back just for rest and relaxation instead of going all the way back to my other country. Basically just using Thailand for a layover for a few days inbetween business travel into other countries.

The way I read it is that should not be a problem, so much confusion here and I must say so much hatred and negativity on this topic between expats, whats up with that?

[GBK]

Whichever way any of you want to cut it, or accuse Thailand of unprofessionalism or whatever, surely, if you want to reside in a Country anywhere in the World, you should be prepared to take the trouble to get a proper bona fide Visa which entitles you to live there.

You should not be entitled to live in a Country which is not your Country, as against visit it for a holiday, without getting the necessary paperwork and authority.

If this legislation gets rid of the cheapskates who get our respective home Countries a bad name here, then good !!! Well done Thailand!

On one level, I agree with you but, on the other hand, there are some people who do not "fit" the regs.

I, for example, am just over 50, but have no pension. I do, however, have residual income from a UK company that I own. That doesn't fit the regs. I maintain two visas, one for the WP and one in case there are snags with the WP. Technically I can't get an O visa on that basis due to the new regs at the UK conslates/embassy. I am German, but was born and raised in the UK (long story) and I don't know if the consulates in Germany have different instructions. IOW, let's just be careful before we slag off people doing the B2B tourist visa runs. Sure, some may well be the "ne'er do wells" as some may characterise them, but there are more than a few who just don't match the One Size Fits All regs.

[ScotBkk]

God help us. All this has become a bit overpowering and my brain hurts !!!!

[samran]

From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints including airports after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.

What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

I don't really understand why people like the 38 year old friend of yours think they have or should have a right to stay just because they have a bit

of cash in the bank.

If he wanted to work, open a business and employ people, pay taxes and genuinely contribute in a meaningful way there would be legitimate routes to stay, and even PR and citizenship if he wanted it.

Too many people here seem to have the attitude - I have cash, am white, and therefore entitled.

You seriously think being white (if this person is) and being entitled is a common attitude? I don't encounter that attitude much, however I don't ever ask if that is what white people think.

The attitude that I have cash, I contribute to the local economy, I am a useful visitor/resident is, in my opinion, an okay attitude.

Yes, every country has the legal right to determine who they want to visit and who they want to allow to stay.

In my opinion, Thailand, and other countries around the world do well when they attempt to accommodate expat residents who contribute. Whether that is just living an expensive lifestyle here, working on the Internet (they should have a work permit for this), working outside the country etc. I think it would be good for the economy. Just an opinion.

On the "I am white therefore entitled' point. Go read any of the threads here on immigration and the overwhelming theme is 'how dare these stupid locals prevent me from wanting to live here without any legitimate controls'.

On the rest of it, I actually don't disagree. But there is nothing to stop a rich person moving here and living like a miser if they go the visa runner route.

Investment visa's is one way they can show they are serious. These visas exist. If someone is genuine about contributing, there are a variety of alernate ways.

Edited May 13, 2014 by samran

[Ianatlarge]

&lt;deleted&gt; me!

This really bugs me. Criminals = visa runners. Get real.

[cronus]

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From the original poster - - "..The order, posted in Thai (click here), states that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints including airports after August 12.."

My status - - I am age 65, retired, condo owner, and I get an annual retirement extension from immigration, no problem.

But - - What about my best friend's status? This is his profile - -

** Age 38

** American

** Wealthy

** Condo Owner here in Bangkok, has local banking, and calls Thailand "home".

** He is "functionally retired" (does not work) (but he is less than age 50)

** He currently flies in and out every 30 days; He stays one or two nights in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Bali, and he then returns through Swampy Boom, and he's been doing that for 5-years.

** He fits the profile that Thailand allegedly prefers - - Wealthy, clean-cut, dresses smartly, no tattoos, piercings, or other trashy appearance.

** On the other hand, he is not married. He rents a different high-end "escort" every so often, but he does not frequent bars. He doesn't precisely fit the negative "sex-pat" image.

** He does not drink, nor smoke, nor use drugs.

** He's never been in any trouble anywhere, zero criminal record.


What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

I suppose that he could use one of the many Thai Attorney Visa Services, and get a fresh one-year Non-O or Non-B every year, but that seems to really be illegal, given that most of these services mail your passport off to some Thai embassy for you.

Or, I suppose that he could form a Thai corporation, and pretend to work as a "consultant", and get a Work Permit, but again, he doesn't work, and he doesn't want to be forced into telling lies and cheating the system.

So - - What should my friend do? Is he at risk after August 12th ?

Thanks,

JD

I don't really understand why people like the 38 year old friend of yours think they have or should have a right to stay just because they have a bit
of cash in the bank.

If he wanted to work, open a business and employ people, pay taxes and genuinely contribute in a meaningful way there would be legitimate routes to stay, and even PR and citizenship if he wanted it.

Too many people here seem to have the attitude - I have cash, am white, and therefore entitled.

You are just jealous coz they are living the good live and are 30 years younger than you, arent you...

[gcbruk]

Have I got this right? Three VisaExempt walk-in 30 day stamps now permitted but only until August.

My Tourist visa expired 27 April, went to Mae Sai and got 30 days up to 26 May. So can I now expect another two stamps at Mae Sai? That would be fine as I have to leave mid-July anyway. Can anyone give me peace of mind that this will be OK or where else I could get confirmation?

Thanks so much

[IMA_FARANG]

There is an article on the front page of the "Bangkok Post" newspaper for today 13 May 2014 that covers this topic.

For a Thai newspaper article it is remarkably well written and coherent.

Beg, borrow, or steal a Bangkok Post for that day and read that article carefully.

Copyright restrictions mean I can't quote from the Bangkok Post on this forum.

So do the work yourself and read the article.

[cronus]

The 38-year old high-flyer in post #12 above, it seems, would have no problem flying back to the USA and getting a 6-month validity 3-entry tourist visa in person at a Thai Honorary consulate which would be good for up to 9 months stay with requisite exits and extensions.

Could do this 1 time! No way you would get 3 entry tourist visas for 5years, not even back home...

[Benmart]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

My bulb gets dimmer as each year passes, so I'm in no position to determine anyone's brightness. I prefer to let others sleep and not to tell them it's time to wake up. That way, my own inner peace is assured.

Lots of use of the word "you". A great word mind "you". LOL.

[BestBitterPhuket]

Yes I must say I was surprised to read about this. I am affected by this, I am 39 yrs old, working all around the world, living in Thailand on visa-on-arrival for 11 yrs. I am a fly-in, fly-out global employee, and there are many of me here in Phuket. I am not married. So realistically I am not entitled to any form of non-immigrant visa, although I was able to obtain a non-O in the past when Thai Consulates were looser.

I have a lot to lose from this, if it continues to be enforced. I have a condo here, a car, 2 golfclub memberships. I have never worked here (I earn damn good money abroad), have no intention of ever working here, and I have to say I am concerned. My only hope is that this is just another short-lived weed-out of the teachers, tourguides and other oxygen thieves (timeshare sales) and in a few weeks we are back to business as usual.

Weed out the teachers? They actually benefit Thailand a lot more than you. You are the oxygen thief. You never want to contribute paying taxes to Thailand, even though in reality you live here. It's good if people like you are "weeded out" of Phuket.

[Sydebolle]

Don't get me wrong but August 13th is NINETY-TWO days away and believe me, this is a hell of a long time for some clowns to look into what possible mess they'll create at the border points.

It will be a hilarious field day for the media - specially those travel magazines, blogs and travel agency media ;-) ..... unless until then things have changed - again 8-)

[IMA_FARANG]

Have I got this right? Three VisaExempt walk-in 30 day stamps now permitted but only until August.

My Tourist visa expired 27 April, went to Mae Sai and got 30 days up to 26 May. So can I now expect another two stamps at Mae Sai? That would be fine as I have to leave mid-July anyway. Can anyone give me peace of mind that this will be OK or where else I could get confirmation?

Thanks so much

-----------------------------

Can't be really certain but I suspect your answer is NO.

Be smart, go across the border somewhere else, and stay in that country long enough to get another single entry tourist visa.

Do NOT count on getting another 30 day visa exempt entry;

A single entry tourist visa will get you a 60 day entry "permitted to stay" stamp, and a possible 30 day extension at your local immigration office in Thailand (1900 Baht if you want the extension).

You may not need it, but it is wiser to be safe now than sorry later.

[wlcart]

Lies of map makers!

I know this will be a radical statement that hardly anyone will go along with, but we are all humans and should be free to move about this earth as we please.

As long as a person does not hurt, steal or otherwise do direct damage to people and property, no government has any business telling an individual where he or she can live. Here, there or anywhere.

I will have to wait a few hundred years for others to get hip to this idea.

[ovenman]

Lies of map makers!

I know this will be a radical statement that hardly anyone will go along with, but we are all humans and should be free to move about this earth as we please.

As long as a person does not hurt, steal or otherwise do direct damage to people and property, no government has any business telling an individual where he or she can live. Here, there or anywhere.

I will have to wait a few hundred years for others to get hip to this idea.

In the meantime, you may want to consider getting yourself a visa from a Thai consular office.

[thelobot]

Quick Question Everyone- I'm coming over on a 3 entry tourist visa; am I going to have problems with this kind of visa just going over the boarder and coming back when I have the re-entries already?

[ovenman]

Quick Question Everyone- I'm coming over on a 3 entry tourist visa; am I going to have problems with this kind of visa just going over the boarder and coming back when I have the re-entries already?

No, that should be fine.

[JLCrab]

Lies of map makers!

I know this will be a radical statement that hardly anyone will go along with, but we are all humans and should be free to move about this earth as we please.

As long as a person does not hurt, steal or otherwise do direct damage to people and property, no government has any business telling an individual where he or she can live. Here, there or anywhere.

I will have to wait a few hundred years for others to get hip to this idea.

In the meantime, you may want to consider getting yourself a visa from a Thai consular office.

Also, if you choose to go the diplomatic route, Thailand is a signatory to the 1945 United Nations Universal Declaration on Human rights at which Article 13 states:

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

and somehow claim that your rights are being violated by such-and-such policy of the Royal Thai Government.

Edited May 13, 2014 by JLCrab

[enuff said]

.

I have a visa extension for reason of retirement so this does not effect me directly. But maybe some of my friends or groups travelling over will be put off by the chance that they will not get in? Yes they can get a travel visa but lets face it last minute travel is then out the window and many people don't want to bother getting a visa and will not condider coming. I see this going away quickly or rethought and refined. But who knows. Next I do believe changes will be made to getting extensions to visas. More income higher age for reason of retirement but maybe easier to get a long stay visa for people who have funds. After all rich 30 or 40year olds are the ones they keep saying they want here.. My only one word of advice is make sure you don't make yourself too ccomfortable here and have a bolt hole or funds to go somewhere else.Having the biggest house and biggest car counts for nothing when it comes to extending your visa.

Do people really "last minute travel" for a MONTH? or MORE??? Ridiculous. You have not thought this out and your arguments are inane.

Any imm. officer can look at a PP and know in 10 sec. if the holder is a tourist or a border runner. So there will be no problem for tourists, just people pretending to be tourists.

Please stop fomenting worry and fear with pap.

One of my longest (over 10yrs) and most trusted Thai friends, who is connected to police and military, says the big reason for this action is that a very high proportion of foreigners who are implicated or arrested for criminal activity have been ---> wait for it ----> doing border runs. You can't blame Thais for wanting to sort this out as best they can.

And if you really want to see what it's like to be fleeced by tourism pirates, try taking a gondola ride in Venice.

[Gonki]

we don't need you here is my best advise.

You run the place, don't you?

[Frank33]

And once again, no clear answer to the 64,000 baht question: what specifically constitutes out and in? Same hour return to Thailand? Same day return? Same month return? Returning to Thailand ever, at any time in the future...?

The new rules regarding visa free entry, in force since 10 May 2014, are lacking some basic specifics and are therefore open to interpretation.

The new rules constitute a nation-wide formalization and radicalization of the “three times only” whim of minor officials at certain land border crossings.

The new rules have substituted this unlawful whim by an official policy issued at the highest level. The essential philosophy of this policy is: “No visa free entry at all for frequent visitors”.

Any visa free entry shall be refused if it can be seen as an “out/in with visa run characteristics” (การ Out-Inในลักษณะของ Visa run).

For the time being, only land border crossings are affected. However, from 12 August 2014, the policy will be extended to visa free entries by air.

The Thai language instructions issued to immigration staff contain two major ambiguities:

1. The new rules apply to “targeted nationalities, like Koreans etc.” (สัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ), but the Immigration Bureau will not specify who they are. Who else is “like Koreans”, and what are the selection criteria for the nationalities to be targeted? Is there a list of targeted nationalities?

2. The new rules apply to “out/in with visa run characteristics” (การ Out-Inในลักษณะของ Visa run), but the Immigration Bureau will not clarify what constitutes an “out/in with visa run characteristics”. Specifically, for how long does a person need to be out of the country before a visa free entry ceases to fall into this category? One day? One month? Ten years?

I expect that the Immigration Bureau will not clarify these ambiguities and thereby give license to their subaltern desk staff to act according to their individual temper of the day.

[Mario2008]

1 post removed.

No political comments in the visa section.

[ovenman]

1. The new rules apply to “targeted nationalities, like Koreans etc.” (สัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ), but the Immigration Bureau will not specify who they are. Who else is “like Koreans”, and what are the selection criteria for the nationalities to be targeted? Is there a list of targeted nationalities?

Yes, listed in a posted article elsewhere on ThaiVisa. They are Lao, Vietnamese, Korean and Russian.

See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725592-thailand-visa-missing-mh370-behind-visa-run-crackdown-fingerprints-next/

[wilcopops]

This whole affair looks like it has been organised by a 12 year old who forgot their homework deadline.

[starchild5]

I'm sorry as a guy from a third world country, who goes to western countries never to return back without any paper or money and then leech of off on social welfare.

We are hypocrites....My country India is the worse, millions of Indians are living illegally in the west and no problemo and many have made a good life going to west even illegally...but when a western guy tries to do the same playing by rules even ...he is burdened with all sorts of visa rules

Thailand, Philippines, China, SEAsian countries love to leech of off on the west but don't extend the same privilege .....In my experience, sometimes we just gel with the place, our DNA just syncs with the place we were not born in....but unfortunately, western guys are not afforded the luxury..

Some guys from west....Just love Thailand...Rich or poor, they would just sync in with Asian countries, They feel their DNA coming to life again...many folks in Asian countries feel the same when they go to the west....Visa's have been a bane to humanity for 100s of years now.....Humanity must be allowed to travel and settle in where ever the F*k we want...

These government politics and bureaucracy is killing human soul slowly....People are really frustrated and on the edge living in their own shitty countries...They want to move out, explore and be free....Allow them please

[techboy]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

Hey Mango Bof- Just because you are most likely a criminal who worked illegally until you fortuitously found a legal venue do not go assuming that everyone is. I have never worked a day in Thailand in fifteen years. It has been contracts outside the country. People such as yourself whose primary gratification is capriciously slandering others are the ones who should hit the road. Nothing but a bunch of useless, rightous poseurs who could not care less about ethics.

[thelobot]

Quick Question Everyone- I'm coming over on a 3 entry tourist visa; am I going to have problems with this kind of visa just going over the boarder and coming back when I have the re-entries already?

No, that should be fine.

Sounds good thank you for the reply.

[arjunadawn]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

That was most probably the most hateful post I have read in a long time.

"Go Home"... are you serious.

Some people need to stick their "Godly" heads back up their...............

Wow, isn't this strange. After commenting on the negative, impolite people I find here on TV I find myself totally agreeing with a post that another says is hateful.

I don't find it hateful at all. I have been coming to Thailand for over ten years, trying to learn the immig options, choices, best means to stay as I fell in love with Thailand. In all these years I have never done a border run one time. It only means I made different choices; it doesn't reflect my character at all. Or does it? How come I can find my way to getting visas in my passport as opposed to milking a system who's visa border permissions are granted solely for tourism- it must be so as there is nearly a visa for every other reason to be in the Kingdom.

There are a subtle subculture of foreigners to this place that for reasons related to finance, Crime, malfeasance, or laziness, exploit the tourist options and craft for themselves "their middle way." They prowl the bars and get advise from geezers, TV, friends of friends, crime syndicates, or perhaps just practice, having slid into this manner of continuing their stay unawares there are appropriate ways to be in the Kingdom. An entire cottage industry exists to thwart the regulatory intent of border/visa. Have no doubt about it, some who do this are very undesirable- not just tingtong or cheap farang!

They then shout "woe is me" when Thailand enforces an existing regulation. I'm of modest means. I do it properly. I agree with Mango Bob, go home. You impugn our character collectively and exasperate the State.

[MantisMan]

Seems people are not very bright here. It is the immigration official that will decide if you are trying to live in Thailand off these border runs. You come in and out same hour, same day and he feels your doing this to get extra days in Thailand and not for tourist reasons he denies entry. So some of you need to wake up and visit for a few days before returning to Thailand. And stop crying the blues, it's about time they crack down on those who try to work here illegally. Glad to see this happen. Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs. Also some here need to wait up to the fact that if you have a visa of any type it doesn't affect you. Can people get that through their heads. Go home we don't need you here is my best advise.

"Thailand does not owe you anything and it's have no affect on the economy from these cheap people who do these border runs."

Um, wrong.

It has an effect on the local economy. These folks pay rent, utilities, they buy food and clothes.

They also rent or buy scooters and engage in night entertainment such as hogging a bar stool.

So yes, they do contribute to the economy.