Strangebrew Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm a bit confused on this but some knucklehead 25 year old American is running an online business from Thailand. If I'm correct even if business is online it is still concidered working if done here in Thailand and would need work permit to do so? Anyone one know for a fact If I'm right or wrong? Because if I wrong being retired Hell I'll do that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Of course. Also pay tax. But of course if no one knows..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes, OP, you would be correct. I read that same thread this morning and found it odd that people were trying to help this guy break the law. If an expat is working in Thailand, he/she must have a work permit. Does not matter if the work is related to Thailand or not. From the Thai Embassy website: "Foreigners entering Thailand are not permitted to work, regardless of their type of visa, unless they are granted a work permit. Those who intend to work in Thailand must hold the correct type of visa to be eligible to apply for a work permit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post speedtripler Posted May 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2014 how about owning stocks and shares etc and trading (to make gains ) from thailand although all the assets remain in another part of the world and tax paid to relevant govt ? its a fine line between "managing your money " and " working " if you only do it casually 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post brit1984 Posted May 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2014 up to you 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 how about owning stocks and shares etc and trading (to make gains ) from thailand although all the assets remain in another part of the world and tax paid to relevant govt ? its a fine line between "managing your money " and " working " if you only do it casually Managing your own money, investing, etc., wouldn't be considered work. Managing someone else's money, investing on their behalf, etc., yes. Running any sort of "business," online or otherwise, is certainly considered work. And if one is doing it in Thailand, one would require a work permit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thanks for the replies The laws and rules sometimes bit confusing here. But at least now getting to better understand what's what in the LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 how about owning stocks and shares etc and trading (to make gains ) from thailand although all the assets remain in another part of the world and tax paid to relevant govt ? its a fine line between "managing your money " and " working " if you only do it casually Managing your own money, investing, etc., wouldn't be considered work. Managing someone else's money, investing on their behalf, etc., yes. Running any sort of "business," online or otherwise, is certainly considered work. And if one is doing it in Thailand, one would require a work permit. investing/trading in itself is a profitable business if you have enough cash and experience to play with just the small issue of a visa but plenty of thai girls will help with that part ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyFeet Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 link to the other thread please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnikaIII Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) link to the other thread please? This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured Edited May 14, 2014 by TechnikaIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyFeet Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 link to the other thread please? This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured Thanks, haven't gotten round to reading it yet so don't know the specifics. I will say though that Thailand certainly doesn't make it easy for online entrepreneurs to work here. Even Thai startups now often register abroad. http://www.techinasia.com/successful-startup-settle-thailand-register-company/ People should follow the law, but the law should not put insurmountable barriers up. Anyway, thanks again for the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DiamondKing Posted May 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) link to the other thread please? This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured Listen to you LOL why are you so emotional about someone you dont know pretty pathetic you want him to get caught and screwed. As far as I am concerned there is no suitable option for a single entity that works online and has nothing to do with Thailand and makes money by working remotely. Is there such a thing as a self employed option here in Thailand ? that would be the best option for people who are one man show making money online where there is absolutely no connection to Thailand other than the internet connection itself. Edited May 14, 2014 by DiamondKing 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicky Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It all depends where the money has been accepted, if in the US then tax there, if in Thailand than work permit and tax here. Remember many people come here for vacation etc. they answer business emails while they are here and it isn't illegal yet they are still doing work of sorts, running an online business from Thailand doesn't need a work permit if all the legalities are in another country, but that countries legalities will need to be dealt with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondKing Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It all depends where the money has been accepted, if in the US then tax there, if in Thailand than work permit and tax here. Remember many people come here for vacation etc. they answer business emails while they are here and it isn't illegal yet they are still doing work of sorts, running an online business from Thailand doesn't need a work permit if all the legalities are in another country, but that countries legalities will need to be dealt with. Its a grey area for sure and all these idiots saying open a company employ 4 thais and get a work permit are ridiculous because someone may only be making 60,000 baht a month more than enough to love comfortably here in Thailand but not enough to cover all the costs associated with opening a company employing 4 thais and paying the fees associated. Like I said its a very grey area that Thailand has not considered since its still fairly new. Someone who logs on and does some work online which is based in UK USA or any other country and then takes the money there but lives in Thailand how can they be considered working in Thailand. Simple answer to this MAKE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE TO BECOME LEGAL Cambodia does 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeijoshinCool Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 link to the other thread please? This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured If you ever consider changing your user name, may I suggest Pious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It all depends where the money has been accepted, if in the US then tax there, if in Thailand than work permit and tax here. Remember many people come here for vacation etc. they answer business emails while they are here and it isn't illegal yet they are still doing work of sorts, running an online business from Thailand doesn't need a work permit if all the legalities are in another country, but that countries legalities will need to be dealt with. You're splitting hairs here. Thai law does not make any distinctions regarding where your income, if any, is taxed. If you're living in Thailand, you cannot work without a work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ulysses G. Posted May 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2014 The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed To me, it is his business. It is very unlikely that the Work Permit office could ever catch him and way too difficult for someone like him to work legally. However, he should remember something: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It all depends where the money has been accepted, if in the US then tax there, if in Thailand than work permit and tax here. Remember many people come here for vacation etc. they answer business emails while they are here and it isn't illegal yet they are still doing work of sorts, running an online business from Thailand doesn't need a work permit if all the legalities are in another country, but that countries legalities will need to be dealt with. Its a grey area for sure and all these idiots saying open a company employ 4 thais and get a work permit are ridiculous because someone may only be making 60,000 baht a month more than enough to love comfortably here in Thailand but not enough to cover all the costs associated with opening a company employing 4 thais and paying the fees associated. Like I said its a very grey area that Thailand has not considered since its still fairly new. Someone who logs on and does some work online which is based in UK USA or any other country and then takes the money there but lives in Thailand how can they be considered working in Thailand. Simple answer to this MAKE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE TO BECOME LEGAL Cambodia does Simple solution is to go to freakin Cambodia and be legal. Why do people want to come to Thailand and try to change the laws for their own personal benefit? These people should know what the laws are coming in and if they have a problem with that, go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not much Thais can do about it.If you don't sell here, and the comes in via Pay Pall, how can they find out.Just my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnikaIII Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 link to the other thread please? This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured Thanks, haven't gotten round to reading it yet so don't know the specifics. I will say though that Thailand certainly doesn't make it easy for online entrepreneurs to work here. Even Thai startups now often register abroad. http://www.techinasia.com/successful-startup-settle-thailand-register-company/ People should follow the law, but the law should not put insurmountable barriers up. Anyway, thanks again for the link! Yes I agree too about the insurmountable barriers. Coming up to 65 next month, and not currently hitched to a Thai partner, the Philippines are looking very attractive. A special Retirement visa, once only application, free to come and go, no restrictions on business/work interests, no 90 day reporting 1,900 บาท scam. The deposit in the bank prior to application is smaller than that required by Thailand, is required only once, and maybe used after 6 months. Here's the only regulation: it must be for use/investment, including purchase of property in the Philippines. In Thailand I am not allowed to buy land. Have to give the money to the Thai wife, so she owns it, and I reside as her guest without rights. Food for thought. ;-) If it were not for the mass abuse of the 15/30 day entry, and so many doing illegal work, no one would have even thought about including on-line activity as employment. This is the brainchild of officers/politicians/bureaucrats employed to address illegal activity, which has itself reached insurmountable proportions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Berkshire, some peoples circumstances change over the years. Not everyone is a Civil Servant from England U.K. . but I know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Remember many people come here for vacation etc. they answer business emails while they are here and it isn't illegal yet they are still doing work of sorts, running an online business from Thailand doesn't need a work permit if all the legalities are in another country, but that countries legalities will need to be dealt with. But the key difference said people on vacation are not claiming "residence" in Thailand, they come, they have their holiday, spend their money and leave and go home again" as to your second point, if person is claiming "residence" in and is operating an on-line business from Thailand, irrespective of the other countries jurisdiction, he would be working in Thailand, even if his money is paid outside Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not much Thais can do about it.If you don't sell here, and the comes in via Pay Pall, how can they find out.Just my thought. it creates problems for legit visa applicants when there are too many degenerate farangs here already doing ......not much 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Berkshire, some peoples circumstances change over the years. Not everyone is a Civil Servant from England U.K. . but I know what you mean. Understand. Just tired of people constantly whinging/whining about how things are, as if the laws were created just to screw them and only them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNX66 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Yes, OP, you would be correct. I read that same thread this morning and found it odd that people were trying to help this guy break the law. If an expat is working in Thailand, he/she must have a work permit. Does not matter if the work is related to Thailand or not. From the Thai Embassy website: "Foreigners entering Thailand are not permitted to work, regardless of their type of visa, unless they are granted a work permit. Those who intend to work in Thailand must hold the correct type of visa to be eligible to apply for a work permit." You say: "If an expat is working in Thailand, he/she must have a work permit. Does not matter if the work is related to Thailand or not." and then you quote a rule from the Thai Embassy Website: "Foreigners entering Thailand are not permitted to work, regardless of their type of visa, unless they are granted a work permit. Those who intend to work in Thailand must hold the correct type of visa to be eligible to apply for a work permit." In my opinion can I do work for my European company en with my European customers online by internet/mail/telephone from my condo at Thailand? I don't need a workpermit for that? I am doing this 2-3 times a year for 2-3 weeks each time. Edited May 14, 2014 by CNX66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTom911 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Yes, OP, you would be correct. I read that same thread this morning and found it odd that people were trying to help this guy break the law. If an expat is working in Thailand, he/she must have a work permit. Does not matter if the work is related to Thailand or not. From the Thai Embassy website: "Foreigners entering Thailand are not permitted to work, regardless of their type of visa, unless they are granted a work permit. Those who intend to work in Thailand must hold the correct type of visa to be eligible to apply for a work permit." I don't think the above post is correct in this blanket kinda way... Neither having checked the law nor being a lawyer, but common sense suggest that the deciding factor is if or if not you generate business in Thailand (i.e. have customers here) or interact in any other way commercially with Thai businesses (e.g. "hire" some people, here, even if freelance) or get paid into a Thai account. In THAT CASE one would be regarded as doing business in Thailand and would have to comply with all the Thai regulations. If however, which is perfectly possible with an online business, if ALL business activities have NO Thai connection (e.g. customers are in Europe, the US, Singapore, wherever, no Thai staff contractors are used AND NO MONEY IS PAID INTO ANY THAI ACCOUNT for ANY of the works, then in most countries this would NOT fall under "doing business in the country/Thailand". Then of course the (tax) rules of whatever other country the business activity is happening in would apply. Some tax man will always be waiting somewhere... ! But if it is really the case that you just happened to choose to conduct your completely "out-of-Thailand business" while sitting on a Thai beach with a laptop on your knees (like, as an example, doing "3D animation for Hollywood" or "AutoCAD design for UK architects"), then I doubt VERY much that any work permit is required, any company needs to be registered or any tax to be paid here. Just make sure there is really NO BUSINESS CONNECTION to Thailand in any way, and best have proof that you have a properly registered business for what you are doing in "that other country". If there is any commercial business relationship with Thai customers or suppliers then of course all Thai laws would apply. In doubt, check with the relevant authorities, of course... Edited May 14, 2014 by TTom911 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes, OP, you would be correct. I read that same thread this morning and found it odd that people were trying to help this guy break the law. If an expat is working in Thailand, he/she must have a work permit. Does not matter if the work is related to Thailand or not. From the Thai Embassy website: "Foreigners entering Thailand are not permitted to work, regardless of their type of visa, unless they are granted a work permit. Those who intend to work in Thailand must hold the correct type of visa to be eligible to apply for a work permit." In my opinion can I do work for my European company en with my European customers online by internet/mail/telephone from my condo at Thailand? I don't need a workpermit for that? nope .......try explaining to your bank manager why youre getting daily payments from paypal transferred into your thai account ....if you dont live or work here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Not much Thais can do about it.If you don't sell here, and the comes in via Pay Pall, how can they find out.Just my thought. it creates problems for legit visa applicants when there are too many degenerate farangs here already doing ......not much Actually, it makes legit visa applicants look better and keeps overzealous Thai bureaucrats busy bothering someone else. Edited May 14, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not much Thais can do about it.If you don't sell here, and the comes in via Pay Pall, how can they find out.Just my thought. it creates problems for legit visa applicants when there are too many degenerate farangs here already doing ......not much Actually, it makes legit visa applicants look better and keeps the over active Thai bureaucrat busy bothering someone else. not really because they all tend to end up with 1 year ed visas at some school abusing the education loophole...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I will say though that Thailand certainly doesn't make it easy for online entrepreneurs to work here. Even Thai startups now often register abroad. http://www.techinasia.com/successful-startup-settle-thailand-register-company/ People should follow the law, but the law should not put insurmountable barriers up. Anyway, thanks again for the link! One suspects its very easy for online entrepreneurs to work here, if your Thai citizen, why should they make it easy for people to work, who are non-citizens, who arrive as tourists typically to set up shop and don't employ any Thai citizens, don't pay taxes in Thailand, (because they are getting paid outside the country) and are basically not contributing to Thailand economic development or "up lifting" its nationals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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