Pray for Thailand

[arjunadawn]

I certainly hope this request is not improper. However, at least hear my point; please:

Today, on another thread, a person stated (to the effect) "Thailand needs to have their civil war so they can burn the dead and move on..." I was appalled. Only a fool or a pubescent child would say such a thing. I am not religious, nor do I follow any religion. My belief is more similar to the beliefs of Eddington, Bohm, and Schrodinger. Its relevant because I am not asking you to pray for me or any religion. However, I do believe positive prayer or wishing affects outcomes. I ask you to offer your whole intention that Thailand does avoid civil conflict.

Look, Thailand is in crisis, for whatever reasons, and so long as "smart people stay out of politics, fools will run" the country. It is imperiled quite dramatically. When westerners take to online forums advocating open civil war and "burning bodies" to move on, this is outrageous- I mean, this is totally F___d up. I was not embarrassed to read this today, but I think horror is the correct sense I had. Like a number of TV readers here I have seen war up close and personal, in many places, for long periods of time and it is not a mechanical process whereby once a certain critical gravity of violence is passed, healing begins and miraculous results ensue. It is true that exhaustion, defeat, surrender of all types takes place, and the numb, dead, continuity of something similar to life remains for those alive. But this does not constitute "moving on" for the survivors. I assure all those who think the poster in reference had a point, your needed for a more mature application of your will- you are needed to desperately pray for peace here. War brings untold suffering for the high and low alike. In a country, that has somehow managed to avoid the great perils of the 60s/70s, Khmer Rogue, CPT/Maoists of the 70s, advocating civil war for your adopted country is the lowest a man can employ his faculties.

I have thought on this all day. I do not know what will answer Thailand's crisis- I just don't know. I do know what will not answer anything at all. Civil war will destroy all that these neighbors of ours have ever dreamed of- the dumb and brilliant alike, the arrogant and the stupid, the monks and the mothers, whoever you see walking on every soi- these people are very much like you; they dream, eat, sleep, hope, pray, touch, cry, love, fail, and they die; untold generations that follow will suffer from war now. So, before you advocate war on such people I ask you kindly advocate (even against all odds) not-war! Be critical, intellectually beat each other up in here (I do at times), but please, don't slip into the numbness that sees war as a viable alternative; the consequences of you getting your wish will be terrible. Perceptions do have a gravity.

[Jingthing]

Absolutely.

War is hell.

Even atheists can pray.

A worthy sentiment from the OP.

[dutchisaan]

Man you wrote a good post! I had the nasty experience of being in a war to. It's not like on the tv, or playing the games on the computer.

People that talk so easy about cival war don't understand anything. They just take everything for granted. They don't even understand that the freedom they have today didn't come with a price tag.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

For years now it seems the Thais are "playing" at war with so many little events, like small bombs that don't really do much or meant to really do much. They are indeed "playing" with fire. Who can stop them?

[marko kok prong]

I expect the op is now in the lotus position mumbling away to his crystals,it will have little bearing on what transpires.

[arjunadawn]

Man you wrote a good post! I had the nasty experience of being in a war to. It's not like on the tv, or playing the games on the computer.

People that talk so easy about cival war don't understand anything. They just take everything for granted. They don't even understand that the freedom they have today didn't come with a price tag.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you, but I felt fairly certain the sentiment was shared by many. Over the past months I have noticed a provocative theme in some posters. OK. I get it, politics does that. But there is a point where one crosses over into proposed conflict where that same blind imperative must take a backseat to a deep breath, and pause. I most believe the overwhelming sentiment on TV is similar to what you post above. From the foodstuffs emptying on shelves to the barricades on countless roads, to gangs, militias, death, sickness, father's desperate with hungry children crying, mothers using the last of furniture to cook food, windows boarded up, roaming gangs "recruiting" and "taxing," ad nauseum. It is not productive. It does not weed out the good from the bad. It does not make things clear. War destroys lives! The nation is a secondary casualty.

[YipYipYa123]

A lot of this they did to themselves and nothing has changed the fact that most Thais are happy to live in a corrupt society if they are getting some benefits from the corruption...

Many are happy to be on either side of the voting as long as they get paid at the ballot box

[arjunadawn]

I expect the op is now in the lotus position mumbling away to his crystals,it will have little bearing on what transpires.

You see, this is dumbassness. I considered whether such posters would say asinine things but concluded "no, the imbeciles will likely move on." I was mistaken. The above poster is a 10%'er. I assert there is always a small portion of the population who has life happen "to them," and assert no accountability for life, and therefore no responsibility. The rest of us, in one way or another, burden their portion of life's load. You see the world from within your box, smug, content with always noting the barrier where the known meets the unknown, and staying comfortably inside. Your response recalls the slaves in Plato's Cave; "better the familiar shadows." Thank you for contrasting the other posters on this forum. You enable us to better realize the mental morass that troubles this place. I for one would rather look into the eyes of the people I see each day and hope for them.

[arjunadawn]

A lot of this they did to themselves and nothing has changed the fact that most Thais are happy to live in a corrupt society if they are getting some benefits from the corruption...

Many are happy to be on either side of the voting as long as they get paid at the ballot box

I think they 100% did this all to themselves; none of this happened to them. Freedom, or any deliberative process, required intelligence and vigilance- look at the USA, my home country- perfect example of people not paying attention to what is done in their name. But my post only sought thought on the narrow point of some people advocating violence as as a means to clean things up. We can all agree they are responsible for this quagmire. I just deeply fear war!

[Som wat]

Democracy is simply un-Thai.

Equal votes among un-equal people in a society where corruption, nepotism, cronyism, lies, face and self-advantage rule the roost, speak up and be hammered down.

It is never going to work in Thailand.

Thais need an absolute ruler like a class of 7 year old boys in a toy-room need a teacher.

Thaksin giving the poor a voice and sense of worth and belief was a dangerous turning point in Thailand's fake democracy, it meant they might actually want to be equal and actually want the country to be genuinely democratic. What an utter balls for the establishment eh.

No, I won't be praying for Thailand, as I believe in genuine democracy. They need to wipe the slate clean and start again if what they say they believe in is true.... which of course it isn't.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Som wat

[Som wat]

A lot of this they did to themselves and nothing has changed the fact that most Thais are happy to live in a corrupt society if they are getting some benefits from the corruption...

Many are happy to be on either side of the voting as long as they get paid at the ballot box

Hand to mouth society without morals. Give them some bread and a banner and they'll hold it high with pride.

Self-advantage, the only thing that matters.

[h90]

Absolutely.

War is hell.

Even atheists can pray.

A worthy sentiment from the OP.

Atheists can pray??

What point has praying for an Atheist?

[Hedghog]

Thailand.

It will all come out in the wash.

Just waiting for laundry day.

The country has a regular wash cycle.

[marko kok prong]

I expect the op is now in the lotus position mumbling away to his crystals,it will have little bearing on what transpires.

You see, this is dumbassness. I considered whether such posters would say asinine things but concluded "no, the imbeciles will likely move on." I was mistaken. The above poster is a 10%'er. I assert there is always a small portion of the population who has life happen "to them," and assert no accountability for life, and therefore no responsibility. The rest of us, in one way or another, burden their portion of life's load. You see the world from within your box, smug, content with always noting the barrier where the known meets the unknown, and staying comfortably inside. Your response recalls the slaves in Plato's Cave; "better the familiar shadows." Thank you for contrasting the other posters on this forum. You enable us to better realize the mental morass that troubles this place. I for one would rather look into the eyes of the people I see each day and hope for them.

You can certainly waffle a load of C#*p,as i have noted in some of your other ramblings.

[h90]

Democracy is simply un-Thai.

Equal votes among un-equal people in a society where corruption, nepotism, cronyism, lies, face and self-advantage rule the roost, speak up and be hammered down.

It is never going to work in Thailand.

Thais need an absolute ruler like a class of 7 year old boys in a toy-room need a teacher.

Thaksin giving the poor a voice and sense of worth and belief was a dangerous turning point in Thailand's fake democracy, it meant they might actually want to be equal and actually want the country to be genuinely democratic. What an utter balls for the establishment eh.

No, I won't be praying for Thailand, as I believe in genuine democracy. They need to wipe the slate clean and start again if what they say they believe in is true.... which of course it isn't.

"Thaksin giving the poor a voice and sense of worth and belief was a dangerous turning point in Thailand's fake democracy, it meant they might actually want to be equal and actually want the country to be genuinely democratic. What an utter balls for the establishment eh."

No he never gave them a voice. He bought them with cheap promises of free things and that they are soon rich. He truly understood them. Poor people don't want to have a voice or democracy. They want to be the rich one and have a home-maid and driver which they can treat badly in the same way as they are treated themself (or worse).

But of course he never spent any money to bring real development. If he would really help the poor to help themself than the vote buying, corruption and cheating would get much more difficult.

[CharlieH]

No one wins a war, but a great many lose in so many ways.

Edited May 15, 2014 by CharlieH

[arjunadawn]

Absolutely.

War is hell.

Even atheists can pray.

A worthy sentiment from the OP.

Atheists can pray??

What point has praying for an Atheist?

Fair question, and Jingthing noted this point too. It is not the point of this topic to discuss prayer, per se, only that I felt deeply that advocating local civil war was awful use of our position as an observer in the country we call home. Unquestionably, when people focus their intention on something, it can measurably effect what's observed. I believe this. You may not.

Atheist? Not atheist? It doesn't really matter. Most people do believe that appreciable thoughts count. Just have them consider when a loved one is dying or imperiled (where then do their thoughts wander?) - we all assert hopeful outcomes. For those who think Thai's deserve what comes to them, you miss the point. Few deserve the outcome of civil war. Do you even note the moral bankruptcy of a position that supports this?

After posting this thread I thought it responsible not to run away from my topic. But I can't say anything else useful. For those of you who don't "get it" I only wish I could take you by the mental hand and show you inside mine and Dutchissan's memories- you would not advocate for war on anyone!

[David48]

Thais need an absolute ruler like a class of 7 year old boys in a toy-room need a teacher.

Are you suggesting a 'Lee Kuan Yew' for Thailand ... making it like a Singapore?

[arjunadawn]

I expect the op is now in the lotus position mumbling away to his crystals,it will have little bearing on what transpires.

You see, this is dumbassness. I considered whether such posters would say asinine things but concluded "no, the imbeciles will likely move on." I was mistaken. The above poster is a 10%'er. I assert there is always a small portion of the population who has life happen "to them," and assert no accountability for life, and therefore no responsibility. The rest of us, in one way or another, burden their portion of life's load. You see the world from within your box, smug, content with always noting the barrier where the known meets the unknown, and staying comfortably inside. Your response recalls the slaves in Plato's Cave; "better the familiar shadows." Thank you for contrasting the other posters on this forum. You enable us to better realize the mental morass that troubles this place. I for one would rather look into the eyes of the people I see each day and hope for them.

You can certainly waffle a load of C#*p,as i have noted in some of your other ramblings.

If this is rambling to you, and sentence construction confounds you, we can work to improve your comprehension in PM. :-)

[benalibina]

A lot of this they did to themselves and nothing has changed the fact that most Thais are happy to live in a corrupt society if they are getting some benefits from the corruption...

Many are happy to be on either side of the voting as long as they get paid at the ballot box

Hand to mouth society without morals. Give them some bread and a banner and they'll hold it high with pride.

Self-advantage, the only thing that matters.

I concur with your statement. Living on the (high) moral ground in Thailand surely doesnt do anybody any

good. In fact...the opposite is true. The pity is that it could be understandable if it was a country with no natural resources in the middle of the desert. But Thailand is not. Therefore the real problems lie within the people themselves. That is very very hard to change. The familystructures in thailand have many good sides but also bad 1s. The bad 1s are part of the problem within Thailand.

[Som wat]

Absolutely.

War is hell.

Even atheists can pray.

A worthy sentiment from the OP.

Atheists can pray??

What point has praying for an Atheist?

An atheist near me sold his soul to Santa.

They're madmen under the guise of sensibility I tells ya.

[Som wat]

Thais need an absolute ruler like a class of 7 year old boys in a toy-room need a teacher.

Are you suggesting a 'Lee Kuan Yew' for Thailand ... making it like a Singapore?

I couldn't say what I would suggest without possibly being carted off to prison for 15 years.

Thai democracy.

[Showbags]

Thailand will not go to war...they deep down are too chicken shIt for such things......its all chest pumping for now, like the angry gorilla charging and thumping away...all show, no substance.

[benalibina]

With defamation laws present in Thailand......truth cannot be spoken.....no responsability....no accountability......this all to keep it the way it is..........

If people who are breaking that law are supported by many many thais......change could be on the way.

[WitawatWatawit]

Marko, I think you're missing the point entirely. As guests in this country, we are expected to exist in a state of political stasis. But we are all affected by what's happening - some are fearful that they may be kicked out. Some fear for their loved ones. ALL are concerned for the average Thai person - regardless of whether you think they "deserve" what's coming to them. My entire personal knowledge of violence involves a couple of drunken scuffles and a few sneaky uppercuts in a rugby scrum. I do not want to experience serious bloodletting, nor do I, and no doubt you, want to see anyone else in this country experience any more of it. Surely the South tragedy is a lesson for all?

The OP is only echoing our sentiments. And it's not inappropriate to do so.

Pray? Yes, this atheist does, but it's no more than a conditioned reaction to circumstances. We all do it.

[cdnvic]

The pinned topic is very clear about political threads in General Topics. Please confine your comments to the already numerous topics in the News forum.