Thai exceptionalism - a myth or reality?: Opinion

[anon467848]

..

Edited May 19, 2014 by merlin2002

[mojorison]

Was that his son's year 7 assignment or something? Could not have been written by a grown man.

[love1012]

The article seems to suggest and is quite right in suggesting that Thailand would be better if it was run by women.................of course NON SHINAWATRA women!

But i would like to ask Thai Visa...... why can posters not refer to the King but you can publish articles about him? Please can you clear up the rules here for everyone?

[BudRight]

My mom says everyone is special.

Edited May 19, 2014 by BudRight

[skildpadden]

This article (it is not meant to be a scholarly paper) is not the listing of the exceptional Thai things - I read it more as a reminder of the (lack of) qualitiy in the Thai educational system and the need of reforming it.

A lot of Thais have no clue of what is happening outside the borders of Thailand, and this lack of cross cultural understanding can be a serious obstacle for the Thais to benefit from the possvbilities of AEC e.g. in terms of goods and knowledge exchange, business projects and expansions etc.

[sturdyd]

Anecdotal and superficial codswallop.

"Distinguished International Professor"

I don't think so.

[Morakot]

Reads like a TAT piece without made up numbers.

In all fairness, the usual TAT pieces make more sense than this absurd random list of truisms.

[Bernard Flint]

For me the highlight was the table tennis player bitch slapping his partner. And that's what Thais think of each other!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

After watching the incident, bitch slapping is perfect for the situation, made me laugh too . BTW, IF IT WAS THE SAME INCIDENT AS I THINK IT WAS, SURELY IT WAS BADMINTON

Edited May 19, 2014 by Bernard Flint

[onni4me]

To begin with, the article introduces one thing that can't be openly discussed. I don't want to go there much further but any society that protects itself and it's institutions with draconian defamation laws, will not develop to its full potential.

Secondly, when coming to Thai language, I have witnessed through a decade and more when two or more Thais are talking and agreeing for considerable time, they still sometimes are confused what was really agreed on. How this can be if the language is so clear and defined? In English and many other European languages f.e. there are separate words for parfume, sweat, gasolene, cooking oil...and so on...in Thai the all are naam-something. Same applies to words like 'mai' that can be many things depending intonation and what is t referring to. I am not at all sure if Thai is the utmostly clear language of other options. The patterns of speech are like I-go-toilet and definitions when and where - time and space - come added like I-go-toilet-yesterday-afternoon-shop-village. It is sometimes contributing to not being so clear since the language itself is not very flexible.

What comes to this article, it weighs very little in thought and in real numbers regarding education and business and the overall development of society I am not convinced. Thais are copying ideas due to their mentality and not creating much of their own. As a producing country its facing serious competition and since it's been passing the days of being third world, it should seek growth in something else than manufacturing T-shirts and coffee mugs. And don't go to car industry since that is mostly assembly as other companies like mobiles etc. Thailand should have waken up a decade or so but they just keep arguing and behaving like children and nothing regarding education system or improvements of society is done.

Som Nam Nah, says me.

[digibum]

"Thailand is rare among developing countries in never having been colonised and is the only country in Southeast Asia with this unique status."

And this is significant..............why?

The reason why no one colonised Thailand is, nobody wanted too!

Technically, it was because nobody needed to. Thailand has always held a very malleable position in the world.

[MaxYakov]

Gerald W. Fry, University of Minnesota

"An important part of education is how we teach about our own country in a balanced in-depth way. When I studied US history in school, I never learned about President Roosevelt's executive order 9066 of 1942, which incarcerated innocent Japanese-Americans living on the West Coast."

"A major principle in cross-cultural teaching and training is that you must understand your own culture before you can begin to understand others."

Since FDR's WW II internment is well-documented and reasonably well-known even if not learned in school, perhaps the good professor should reconsider my second quote from the article (above, emphasis mine). I believe he is (or should be) learned enough to know better than to contradict himself or expose his ignorance in the same article.

Unfortunately, these two links in the above biographic were non-existent:

Thai education expert Fry delivers strong message on reforms

Fry to receive honorary doctorate from university in Thailand

Edited May 19, 2014 by MaxYakov

[Always18]

Some might say that the author has missed out several other, well known, "exceptional" Thai qualities....................no need to go there again!

[geriatrickid]

"Thailand is rare among developing countries in never having been colonised and is the only country in Southeast Asia with this unique status."

And this is significant..............why?

Because it is the beneficial spin of Thailand's ultimate rejection and loss of territory. Worse, is that few if any Thais are aware that Thailand colonized its neighbors and brutalized them. Why colonize when parts of Thailand could just be sliced off?

Popular Thai history ignores the dismemberment of Siam;

- 1863, Cambodia seeks protection from France resulting in Siam being force to renounce its exploitive and brutal suzerainty Siam had imposed upon Cambodia. Siam had forced Cambodia into a vassal state status with Cambodia forced to pay tribute the larger, more powerful Cambodia. In 1867, Siam was no longer able to suck out the resources of Cambodia.

-1893 Franco Siamese War: End result, is that Siam loses Laos and France gets the territory. The Siamese were in fear of losing their entire country to France and pleaded for help from the British. The British had a word with the French, but it came at a cost. Gone was the Shan region of Burma. A large chunk of people who had more in common with Siam than Burma was absorbed by the British.

- 1906 The French were not finished. Siem Reap were taken by the French.

- 1907 France occupies Trat and Chantaburi. To get the French out, Siam gave up Battambang, Siam Nahkon and Sisophon.

Few if any Thais know their history, and when exposed, they refuse to believe it. That's Thai exceptionality in practice.

[rabas]

Gerald W. Fry, University of Minnesota

Unfortunately, these two links in the above biographic were non-existent:

Thai education expert Fry delivers strong message on reforms

Fry to receive honorary doctorate from university in Thailand

Here it is, did his PhD at Stanford, and has a Masters from Princeton,

it's hard to see how you could find anyone more expert to write the piece he wrote, outside TVF.

http://www.cehd.umn.edu/olpd/people/faculty/fry.asp

I eventually obtained my doctorate in international development education from Stanford, with a focus on Southeast Asia. Later, as head of the Center for Asian and Pacific Studies at the University of Oregon, I continued to be particularly interested in education and development issues in Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. I enjoy moving, changing, and taking on new challenges. I have a total of approximately 13 years of fieldwork experience in mainland Southeast Asia over a period of five decades and am fluent in Thai and Lao. I’d like to see teaching about Asia improved in public schools, and to that end have collaborated with the Asia Society in New York.

[Thainess]

"In recent years and months, I have given numerous presentations on the controversial concept of Thai exceptionalism. Many western scholars take issue with this notion, which they consider elitist and argue that it contributes to Thais felling superior to their neighbours in Asia."

This shows a basic misunderstanding of the most simple psychology. Thais have a superiority complex, that much is true. However, as any high-school psychology student can tell you, a superiority complex is not due to actually feeling superior. It is, in fact, due to the very opposite.

"Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority.[1] The term was coined by Alfred Adler (February 7, 1870 – May 28, 1937), as part of his School of Individual psychology. It was introduced in his series of books, including "Understanding Human Nature" and "Social Interest"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex

The reality is that most Thais feel woefully inadequate to their neighbours, who have long since overtaken them in terms of economic success, political stability, openness to the outside world, cultural richness and, above all, educational achievement. Since Thailand seems to be falling further behind other countries in the region every year, these deep-seated feelings of inadequacy (masked by a superiority complex) will only continue to worsen for Thailand in the coming decade.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Thainess

[MaxYakov]

Gerald W. Fry, University of Minnesota

Unfortunately, these two links in the above biographic were non-existent:

Thai education expert Fry delivers strong message on reforms

Fry to receive honorary doctorate from university in Thailand

Here it is, did his PhD at Stanford, and has a Masters from Princeton,

it's hard to see how you could find anyone more expert to write the piece he wrote, outside TVF.

http://www.cehd.umn.edu/olpd/people/faculty/fry.asp

I eventually obtained my doctorate in international development education from Stanford, with a focus on Southeast Asia. Later, as head of the Center for Asian and Pacific Studies at the University of Oregon, I continued to be particularly interested in education and development issues in Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. I enjoy moving, changing, and taking on new challenges. I have a total of approximately 13 years of fieldwork experience in mainland Southeast Asia over a period of five decades and am fluent in Thai and Lao. I’d like to see teaching about Asia improved in public schools, and to that end have collaborated with the Asia Society in New York.

Yes ... one would think, wouldn't one? My updated Post on the matter

Oh, well. It is advertised as an opinion piece.

Edited May 19, 2014 by MaxYakov

[digibum]

Secondly, when coming to Thai language, I have witnessed through a decade and more when two or more Thais are talking and agreeing for considerable time, they still sometimes are confused what was really agreed on. How this can be if the language is so clear and defined? In English and many other European languages f.e. there are separate words for parfume, sweat, gasolene, cooking oil...and so on...in Thai the all are naam-something. Same applies to words like 'mai' that can be many things depending intonation and what is t referring to. I am not at all sure if Thai is the utmostly clear language of other options. The patterns of speech are like I-go-toilet and definitions when and where - time and space - come added like I-go-toilet-yesterday-afternoon-shop-village. It is sometimes contributing to not being so clear since the language itself is not very flexible.

This amazes me to no end.

I once mentioned to a fairly well-educated Thai friend that the Thai language was very difficult for me because it was so imprecise. After the normal knee-jerk Thai defensiveness, I was allowed to explain what I meant and gave numerous examples where various common phrases in English left zero room for misinterpretation but the same message conveyed in Thai had a rather vague meaning at best.

Of course she never conceded the point despite agreeing with me on every single example. :-)

That's fine though. I mean, yes, it's frustrating at times but language is language. It can and does evolve as needs dictate.

However, and I don't mean this to sound like Thai bashing but, I do theorize that the vagueness of the Thai language is a contributor to the Thai habit of being, ahem, liberal with the truth, which is one reason why there's no great push to make it more precise.

[Utley]

"Thailand is rare among developing countries in never having been colonised and is the only country in Southeast Asia with this unique status."

And this is significant..............why?

The reason why no one colonised Thailand is, nobody wanted too!

Technically, it was because nobody needed to. Thailand has always held a very malleable position in the world.

"Malleable" - a polite term meaning no back bone.

[WhizBang]

A word to the Professor (author of this 'article'): Try living in Thailand for a few years, then lets see what you think of Thai 'exceptionalism'.

Definition of Thainess: I am Thai, I can do what I want, where I want, when I want. And <deleted> you if you do not like it.

[JohnThailandJohn]

One has to wonder why a person who didn't feel threatened or inferior to Thais find such a need to constantly try to paint a negative light on Thais and Thailand. If somebody really felt Thais were inferior there would be no reason to say anything unless you are the type of person that needs to constantly remind everyone that you are smarter than the retarded kid down the street. Many of the comments here seem no different than an insecure man being jealous of a handsome and well built male and needing to comment that the male is surely gay.

If I didn't think Thailand was exceptional then I would be a fool for building a life that included living here.

Edited May 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[KarenBravo]

never seen so much nonsense combined into one article.

and that is also an achievement.

I wouldn't term all article as nonsense.

There is a feature of Thai life described which is reflected in reality. But described too little. It is about Thai women.

Long time back, when I came to Thailand I started noticing facts which I consider ominous:

- more female drivers on the roads than males;

- more female students at the Uni's than males;

- more female vendors, shop owners, attendants than males;

- if you need help with English/Thai translation 9 out of 10 cases a female is more helpful than a male;

... and this is in a Buddhist country!..

As to the rest of the article - it is an achievement in kalbo123 sense.

And, please, do not forget that EVERYTHING changes. Can't say more within the constrains of this post.

The OP is also forgetting one dominant feature of Thai Education: THOU MUST NOT QUESTION! In other words it is not Education - it is indoctrination! Brainwashing!

Thailand is a male dominated society that is run by women.

[pookiki]

"Thailand is rare among developing countries in never having been colonised and is the only country in Southeast Asia with this unique status."

And this is significant..............why?

Not colonized but maybe conquered? The Thais have never forgiven the Burmese for the sacking of Ayutthaya. And what about when a good chunk of Thailand was under the control of the Khmer - etc., etc.

[onni4me]

However, and I don't mean this to sound like Thai bashing but, I do theorize that the vagueness of the Thai language is a contributor to the Thai habit of being, ahem, liberal with the truth, which is one reason why there's no great push to make it more precise.

I have been wondering if the way they teach to be polite and submissive (to their superiors and people in power) has anything to do with it?

Politeness goes ahead of being clear-spoken, perhaps? Not to mention 'Face'...er...let's not go there. I have noticed that even educated Thais feel uncomfortable when talking about problems and things not going right direction.

There are few exceptions and they have normally been educated outside Thailand and hold top positions in private sector, not the government where the 'Thai exceptionality' flourishes...unfortunately these two every now and then collide and the politics dictates the marching order.

[culicine]

"Thailand is rare among developing countries in never having been colonised and is the only country in Southeast Asia with this unique status."

And this is significant..............why?

A good excuse for not knowing "pasah falang" I've heard this excuse on more than one occasion. Perhaps Thailand should forget about AEC until this is addressed....and the sort our all their other domestic problems.

[digibum]

One has to wonder why a person who didn't feel threatened or inferior to Thais find such a need to constantly try to paint a negative light on Thais and Thailand. If somebody really felt Thais were inferior there would be no reason to say anything unless you are the type of person that needs to constantly remind everyone that you are smarter than the retarded kid down the street. Many of the comments here seem no different than an insecure man being jealous of a handsome and well built male and needing to comment that the male is surely gay.

If I didn't think Thailand was exceptional then I would be a fool for building a life that included living here.

That is only true if you consider Thais to be the retarded kid down the street and feel that they are beyond critique due to their true inferiority. If you believe them to be more than that, then your argument seems to lose weight rather quickly.

Many, if not most, of the issues many of us discuss, have averse effects on Thais, not only in the present sense, but going forward. Refusing to take corrective actions, especially on a governmental level, because you refuse to see yourself as anything other than exceptional, can result in dire consequences.

Your second argument, which actually has no logical connection to your "retarded kid down the street" argument, is called jealousy. And while it may be caused by insecurity, I doubt many people wish any of the things that are wrong with Thailand upon themselves.

While Thailand may be exceptional in many ways, it's seriously screwed up in many ways as well.

What I always find somewhat amusing is that, in many ways, it is us who benefit from Thailand's woes. If the people who write comments which you find to be exhibiting an inferiority complex were, at all, self-interested, they would shut their mouths and let Thailand drive the bus off the cliff.

[Utley]

what a BS article on Thai nationalism which teaches Thais from a young age they are superior in every way when, in fact, I can't think of any scientific, artistic, technological or medical world-class contributions from Thailand... and, no, Pattaya Walking Street doesn't count

I believe the Thais invented the condom size "extra extra small". But then I could be wrong........

[ggt]

There are many things that make Thais exceptional...a large portion of which...are not very flattering...

[kamahele]

I don't know where this person went to school in the USA, but I was educated there and for sure was taught all about the internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII which is something we are now quite ashamed of. The sins of our past are taught in US schools and frequently reported on through the media as they should be. This is something I don't see happening in Asia.....

[belg]

siam reap in cambodia, does that not mean: the fall of thailand?

[Ruin]

Don't a lot of people need a feel good factor? Doesn't matter where it is in the world, it could be US, Europe or Africa, all like to blow their own trumpet.

As for feeling superior to one's neighbors, try Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and more within Asia