Bangkok Bank rejected my transfer - Am I screwed?

[fletchsmile]

I had a similar experience - same same but different with Stan Chart Bank.

The names on my sending instructions from SCB Singapore didn't match exactly the names on my SCB Thailand account.

Result: It was rejected by the Thailand end.

Causes: SCB Singapore had changed their IT system so that the beneficiary I had previously set up online was now to loo long to enter their side. They reduced it to 40-something characters. Whereas previously it was automatically set up and long enough to put both my wife and I's names (joint account in Singapore and joint account in Thailand) it was first rejected Singapore side as too long to put in their system.

So I shortened it by cutting out my middle name on the sending instructions. When it came to Thailand, the Thai side then rejected it as it didn't match.

Solution: For that particular transfer the Thai end asked me to sign a form in Thailand authorising the mismatch name transfer to be allowed to be credited to our account in Thailand. It was then credited. I believe that form also authorised all future mismatches with the same mismatch to also be credited as well

Solution2: My relationship manager said simplest solution was to just ensure exactly matching names on the sending instructions to actual name of account in Thailand. As the Singapore end couldn't cope with the length of names on the Thai end joint account, I just send to an account in either my wife's name or my name which by themselves are short enough to input Singapore end. The signed paper above should be enough, but just in case it got held up in future while investigated, it's easier just to play by simple rules.

Conclusion: make sure your beneficiary on the sending form exactly matches the account in Thailand, letter for letter

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 20, 2014 by fletchsmile

[Pib]

Some of my Bangkok Bank accounts are joint accounts with my wife....my name is first on the accounts with my full middle name (my full name is also in English) and then my wife's name "in Thai." My U.S. bank accounts are joint accounts with my wife where both our names are in English and my middle name is either just the initial or not used at all. So, far I've never had a transfer rejected (knock on wood...my head).

[DrDave]

For direct deposit from a US gov't source via ACH to BBL, BBL issues personal banking clients a special type of restricted access acct designated specifically and solely for receipt of direct deposit payments - a single acct may be used for funds receipt from multiple sources such as SSA, VA, OPM, etc. BBL uses a different acct numbering scheme for direct deposit-only accts. These restricted access direct deposit accts are not to be confused with BBL's traditional savings accts.

Also, BBL's direct deposit accts cannot be a joint acct - one name only. BBL instituted this policy as a fraud prevention measure due to past high baht losses from families sometimes for years not reporting the death of the annuitant. BBL usually tells prospective direct deposit acct clients that it's the US gov't's policy for the one name, no iBanking, no ATM card, no checks, and acct holders must present themselves monthly at a BBL branch to withdraw their money. Again, it's BBL's internal fraud prevention policy and not that of the US gov't. When BBL accepts receipt of direct deposit funds via ACH from the US gov't the liability for the proper handling of those funds then becomes BBL's.

Many BBL personal banking clients have two BBL accts - one direct deposit / one traditional savings. A client visits a local BBL branch to make an in-person withdrawal from their direct deposit acct, proves their identity, and BBL releases the funds. While at the same counter/teller the funds (in whatever amount) may then be deposited into a traditional savings acct which may be joint, have an ATM card, and iBanking.

I personally have my US gov't monthly annuity direct-deposited into my US bank and then I make online transfers as needed from my US bank via ACH to my BBL Bualuang iBanking acct and then use my BBL ATM card in Thailand. This method permits me more freedom to access my funds instead of having to schlep monthly to my local BBL branch to access my money. The one and only time I ever visited my local BBL branch was when I opened my BBL traditional savings acct and established iBanking privileges.

;b++){var>Thank you, Neocon, for the additional information. You provided important details that don't appear on the bank's website. The only hint is in their "How to Apply" section (my underlining):

"If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service, however we will need to change the type of account in line with the Direct Deposit’s terms and conditions."

I agree that doing the direct deposit from SSA to a US bank, then initiating an online ACH transfer to BBL is the best method. It may delay the receipt of funds by a day or two, but in my opinion, worth it to eliminate the hassle of tracking down any issues between the SSA and BBL if something goes wrong.

[MrMo]

Not sure you'll find it easy to change a name on an account with a bank in Thailand. Too many trees will need to be felled to complete the paperwork.

Having said that I'll tell the simple story of when a Thai bank claimed my signature had changed, which it hadn't.. It actually involved just one sheet of paper with two boxes on it. I was told to sign the top box in the manner I use to sign and the bottom box in the manner of my "new" signature. I signed both boxes the same and then got my money.

Also a different Thai bank needs a signed photocopy of my passport before the cashier will give service a cash withdrawal but can't explain why they need it. Asking them how I get the photocopy to them when making a withdraw at an ATM does leave them somewhat flumexed.

[pmarlin]

Sorry, I don't understand if the trial deposit worked then why the transfer didn't work, that is the purpose of trial deposits

I do transfers all the time to Bangkok Bank from my US Bank. Bangkok Bank uses my full middle name as shown on my passport, my US Bank only uses my middle initial, and not the full middle name and I have never had a problem

The two banks are dealing with numbers (accounts) not names

Something else is screwy. My fist guess is the Union Bank suddenly realized that the name of the bank you are transferring to is Bangkok Bank and they think that it is a foreign bank, despite the US routing number, so are not honoring your request for transfer

"The two banks are dealing with numbers (accounts) not names

Something else is screwy. My fist guess is the Union Bank suddenly realized that the name of the bank you are transferring to is Bangkok Bank and they think that it is a foreign bank, despite the US routing number, so are not honoring your request for transfer"

In theory that is correct but in practice, from recent personal experience, Bangkok Bank also require an account name that their system recognises.

Bangkok Bank is a foreign bank wherever it is located outside of Thailand. Why would a US bank have an issue with transferring funds to a foreign bank?

On that second issue, some banks may care if they know. BofA used to shut down accounts when people used the ACH method. Not sure if they still do. That's likely because they have to report when someone wires $10,000 out of the US or does a series close together of about that much. They also have to monitor for signs of money laundering now. Since the ACH system is US only they don't scruitinize it as much. In BofA's case, many people would have some amounts go through, but some others would get stopped. People who made issues of it seemed to have their accounts closed.

Here's an old thread that discussed it, though there was another one where many people talked about having their accounts closed:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/41816-bank-of-america-to-bangkok-bank-ltd/page-8

What ever that problem was back in 2006 seems to be resolved. I currently use BofA to Bangkok Bank ACH transfers with no problem.

[Pib]

Yea, when I use to use BoA for ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank there was one time around the 2006 to 2008 timeframe that they deactivated/greyed out my Bangkok Bank ACH transfer link that I had been using for years to send amounts of around a couple thousand dollars. I could still transfer to other banks no problem...it was just my Bangkok Bank ACH transfer link got greyed out...couldn't use it. I called BoA Customer Service a few times to try to find out what was going...it was like talking to dummies....got answers all over the map....they even recommended a variety of other things like deleting and reestablishing the transfer link...but I didn't delete the link as I decided I was going to continue to bug them about the issue. Anyway, about a month later the link magically became active again and I started using it again for another year or so before I moved to other methods of getting money and opening up some other U.S. bank accounts where I setup ACH transfer links to Bangkok Bank. Hard telling what went on with BoA.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Pib

[tboxcar]

I had a pretty similar problem with Bank of the West after several attempts to set up my BB account using the NY City branch, it simply did not work, finally after talking to someone at Bank of the West they simply said that their fraud department did not like this sort of setup and simply would not do it.

Now I use my other bank and there is NO problem what so ever....Banks suck, they are all modern day thieves in suits.

[Jingthing]

I've used a lot of U.S. banks in my time ... and in my experience the most problematical are:

Bank of America

Wells Fargo

Citibank

[Sicarius]

Hopefully Bitcoin will catch on to the mainstream soon and you don't have problems like the OP anymore. To bad all the thai exchanges buy way under the marketprice. So its not really useful yet if you want to trade with your fiat in THB.

[fletchsmile]

Hopefully Bitcoin will catch on to the mainstream soon and you don't have problems like the OP anymore. To bad all the thai exchanges buy way under the marketprice. So its not really useful yet if you want to trade with your fiat in THB.

I'd quite happily take the minor problems of adjusting names or other details on bank transfers compared to an unregulated environment with no safety net like Mt.Gox

The answer to OP's post is no he's not screwed, just a bit of an inconvenience - not that one would expect otherwise in Thailand now and again.

On the other hand I find it frightening that the organisation that was handling 70% of the world's Bitcoin transaction just collapsed into bankruptcy with little or no protection or compensation to anyone.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 21, 2014 by fletchsmile

[KED]

Open a second account in the same name as your US account. You will need to explain that you do not want your full name as in your passport.

You can always close the account when you receive the money if you will no longer be receiving payments in that name.

I tried to do this at Bangkok Bank's main Silom branch but was advised that the account name MUST match the passport name.

[Jingthing]

He still might be screwed. How do you know he isn't? It happens. Not all that rare.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[fletchsmile]

He still might be screwed. How do you know he isn't? It happens. Not all that rare.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That the problem happens from time to time there's no doubt.

That someone loses their money for good I would seriously doubt. It will turn up one side or the other, albeit with an unknown quantity of inconvenience and time while it gets resolved

The banks have nostrsos/ vostros, i.e accounts with each other and there are reconciliations in place. Eventually one bank works out that they have more money than they should have from somewhere. It may get posted to a suspense account, but even then there are rules on clearing/ reconciling those

Even on the amazing world of Thai Visa I don't think I've ever seen a case where the money disappeared for good via a transfer done from somebody to themselves.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 22, 2014 by fletchsmile

[Jingthing]

The thread is about failure to transfer not loss. That's serious too if you need it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fletchsmile]

The thread is about failure to transfer not loss. That's serious too if you need it.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess if you want to look at it that way it s possible he could be screwed

Then again if that was indeed the scenario that if he needed it and therefore as a result he was screwed when it didnt arrive for some reason: wouldn t the thread be OP telling us he s screwed rather than asking if he s screwed

So if he s asking is he screwed I d say no.

But in your scenario either he should be telling us he s been screwed or we should be answering "you tell us OP. Are you screwed?"

555

Cheers

F

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JimGant]

The problem is on the Thailand side of the pond, since Union Bank *did* send the money (unlike BofA a few years ago, and the current IMA-Farang bank problem, where his bank is gun shy of running afoul of the now required extra data elements under the International ACH Transfer (IAT) regulations). Obviously, the ACH-via-BBNY IAT system is fully vetted, since the Feds use it to direct deposit Fed pensions and Social Security.

And, reading the printouts of ACH transfers I got from my local Bangkok Bank branch, names don't necessarily have to be an exact match (as others have reported), but the human interface has to determine "close enough," or not. And that is not a fixable problem in a not fully automated system. (Those printouts also show that ACH transfers are SWIFT encoded, thus accommodating the IAT data elements.)

On another thread, someone asked about ACHing to a third party. I never saw an answer, nor do I have one -- never having sent to a third party. However, the guidance given on the BBL website about sending to third parties is instructive:

Enter the name of the recipient account in Thailand, if required.

If you want to transfer funds into a third party account, you must use the internet banking service of banks in the United States which allow the remitter to specify the beneficiary’s name. Otherwise, the payment instruction Bangkok Bank receives may not carry the correct beneficiary name and Bangkok Bank will have to return funds to the remitter.

Hmmm. Now this would solve the problem of pointing out that the receiver/beneficiary has a different name than the one on the sending account. However, I don't have the option (USAA) to provide the beneficiary's name when I implement an ACH transfer, nor did I when I set up the transfer account. (Since I can only "push," I set it up as a push only, I-have-no-authority-over type account, thus sidestepping the need for two trial deposits. Even then, it didn't care whose name it was in, only the account number.) So, I guess if I were to set up a real third party account to a completely different named individual, the transfer would be rejected, as I have no way to resolve the complete difference between sender and receiver names.

[JimGant]

That is really the very first time I have ever heard of someones establishing an ACH link to Bangkok Bank New York without going through the test deposit rigmarole!

USAA asks, when you're setting up a transfer account, whether or not you have "authority" over this receiving account. If you indicate "no," then it sets it up as a push only account, thus no trial deposits (for obvious reasons).

SunTrust, when setting up an "external account," gives you the option of the two trial deposits -- or if you want speedier service, asks you to provide your on-line user ID and password of the new external account, whereby they'll check you out. Interesting, but no thanks.

[fletchsmile]

Just to add on the name matching. There is a manual element to this. Automated systems often won't cope with the transliteration of English sent into Thai on the bank book for example. This explains why some people's transaction go thru with minor differences but some don't.

While it doesn't need to be an exact match, if you do make it an exact then you eliminate the risk of it not going thru. As mentioned I've signed a form so a particular mismatch will go thru. As that requires human/manual input tho' I'd rather not rely on it. I preferred my RM's simple and sound advice of just making sure the names match exactly otherwise I'm running the risks of manual input in the middle messing up.

Cheers

Fletch

[Pr0f]

I just posted in another thread specifically about a transfer from a UK current account through Bangkok Bank London to my Bangkok Bank Thailand account but the problem described here resonates with what I'm worried about happening in my own circumstance.

What if your name as printed in your Bangkok Bank book is too long to input into the Payee Name field?

Has anybody any experience with just using your first and middle initials with your surname when transferring money to Bangkok Bank?

[Hal65]

I have good news to report: my second transfer for US$1000 went through today. The only difference between the two transfers was the amounts. My first transfer was for $2000 in my second transfer was for $1000. I don't really think that was the deciding factor, so my take away lesson is to be persistent in case one transfer gets rejected for some reason.

[Langsuan Man]

I have good news to report: my second transfer for US$1000 went through today. The only difference between the two transfers was the amounts. My first transfer was for $2000 in my second transfer was for $1000. I don't really think that was the deciding factor, so my take away lesson is to be persistent in case one transfer gets rejected for some reason.

Sounds to me like the deciding factor is that Union Bank has a thousand dollar a day transfer limit at first, not two thousand dollars since you obviously did not change your account name

[Hal65]

I have good news to report: my second transfer for US$1000 went through today. The only difference between the two transfers was the amounts. My first transfer was for $2000 in my second transfer was for $1000. I don't really think that was the deciding factor, so my take away lesson is to be persistent in case one transfer gets rejected for some reason.

Sounds to me like the deciding factor is that Union Bank has a thousand dollar a day transfer limit at first, not two thousand dollars since you obviously did not change your account name

No that is not the issue, I asked them about that and there is no such policy.

[Pib]

If I have the right Union Bank, here's the link that defines their transfer limits based on whether you own or do not own the account you are transferring to. Link

A cut and paste regarding transfer limits on accounts you have verified at another bank.

How much money can I transfer?

For transfers to or from accounts that you have verified that you own at another bank:

• $2,000 initial transaction limit
• $2,000 daily limit
• $6,000 limit for outstanding transfers at one time
• $10,000 monthly limit

[Pib]

@Hal65, How much of that $1,000 got posted to your account? What was the exchange rate?

I ask because when searching the Union Bank website I came across their master agreement which pretty much implied they or their intermediary bank convert the currency themselves while transferring unless you specifically tell them not to, which usually means you get a significantly lower rate than the TT Buying Rate giving by Thai banks.

Assuming Union Bank or its intermediary bank did not convert to baht, Bangkok Bank's Update 1 for today, and subtracting Bangkok Bank NY $5 fee and the local Bangkok Bank 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max), you should have got about Bt32,097 "posted" to your account. If less than that, especially significantly less, then Union Bank/its intermediary must have converted the dollars to baht when sending.

[Hal65]

I got a text saying I received exactly that amount. I would expect that because Union Bank only does an ACH transfer within the country (remember, they're transferring to New York)

[Pib]

I got a text saying I received exactly that amount. I would expect that because Union Bank only does an ACH transfer within the country (remember, they're transferring to New York)

Good deal. Yea, I must have been thinking a SWIFT vs ACH transfer when writing my post.