International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Publicus]

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Jonathan Head is a professional journalist for a highly respected news organization and knows Thailand well from his years of excellent and insightful reporting in and around the country.

You and 20% of the BBC viewership don't like him, the 80% of us do, roughly speaking.

And really, this post is not intended to be a windup to the chronic Head hating posters.

Jonathan Head belongs in a Thai prison.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-reporter-faces-threat-of-thai-jail-1211116.html

The link provided is from an article that is not connected to Jonathan Head's recent BBC report.

Okay, let's just say they decide to deport Jonathan Head for 'biased' reporting. How about kick out the BBC ? And indeed, remove most of the big foreign news companies.

See, they would never actually do that. Doing it would be highly counter-productive, it would cause more harm than good. Can we imagine the international response IF the BBC and other big news reporters are ordered to leave Thailand ?

And a small point here, it IS the case though, that a number of people on Thai Visa really DO think it would be a good thing if the BBC and foreign media were to be removed. It's a good thing that such people are NOT in charge of Thailand ! The generals are more clever !

Your point is well taken but let's keep this in perspective.

To be more "clever" than these guys around here puts the bar in a very low position.

Only an ant could crawl through the space under it.

Then anyway the boot of martial law would be waiting.

[ginjag]

Jonathan Head belongs in a Thai prison.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-reporter-faces-threat-of-thai-jail-1211116.html

The link provided is from an article that is not connected to Jonathan Head's recent BBC report.

Okay, let's just say they decide to deport Jonathan Head for 'biased' reporting. How about kick out the BBC ? And indeed, remove most of the big foreign news companies.

See, they would never actually do that. Doing it would be highly counter-productive, it would cause more harm than good. Can we imagine the international response IF the BBC and other big news reporters are ordered to leave Thailand ?

And a small point here, it IS the case though, that a number of people on Thai Visa really DO think it would be a good thing if the BBC and foreign media were to be removed. It's a good thing that such people are NOT in charge of Thailand ! The generals are more clever !

Your point is well taken but let's keep this in perspective.

To be more "clever" than these guys around here puts the bar in a very low position.

Only an ant could crawl through the space under it.

Then anyway the boot of martial law would be waiting.

J.Head (dick) must have listened to Rachael Harvey's view on the Thai situation, she brass faced -the red plight on the BKK siege as being a last stand of the people for democracy.

They got it through the ballot box and self destructed themselves through greed, courts are starting to wield into this mess.

Most people found out in the end Ms Harvey was leaning too strong in favour of the reds-thinking she was on the winning side in the reporting rather than the independent view. She was picking up brownie points while here. Maybe she was a little afraid ???

If anyone could crawl under a minute crack, it would be the PTP, their record clearly shows it. Think otherwise then it becomes a habit more than a view.

[rubl]

"what if the Yingluck government condoned the violence and cowardly night attacks with guns and grenades against anti-government protesters."

Condoned? Care to offer proof? I think if Yingluck and the PTP had not been doing all they could to reign in the extreme redshirt elements there would have been bloodshed many times greater.

Speaking of unsubstantiated claims rubl, what about your claim that VPN's are illegal in Thailand? Care to support or renounce that one? Remember, it's against policy to spread false rumors.

Proof? No proof, just the odd dead and purely by coincidence cowardly attacks in the night with gunfire and grenades on anti-government protests. All, because they started with protesting against the undemocratically pushed, sneakily modified blanket amnesty bill which even suddenly covered THaksin's last two years and the Yingluck Administration's first two.

No proof, must have done it themselves, don't you think?

As for VPN, in Thailand using whatever means to bypass censorship is punishable. Just like in lots of countries nowadays.

Well done rubl, you've sunk to sumtingwong's level, and that's saying a lot. "Proof? No proof", followed by completely out of context and unsubstantiated name calling and accusations, absolutely classic--"I'll believe what I want to believe and won't be confused by facts, logic, and calls for evidence." Once again, well done.

As for VPN, I don't know how to use it to bypass censorship, and I won't ask you for assistance in doing so. I can't promise that others won't.

Please indicate where in my reply I had the 'name calling'?

As for believing, no idea what you believe in, just what you write here. There may or may not be a relation between the two.

As for censorship and bypassing it, you wrote in this topic

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO. Shame on you.

[rubl]

"International Alarm Grows (Again)."

Foreign politicians very alarmed by latest move of NCPO and fear backlash at home. Condemn Junta as completely undemocratic and inhuman."

"Head of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) said politicians who have their hands in running the country wrongfully in the past must be held responsible for what they have done to the country."

[heybruce]

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Jonathan Head is a professional journalist for a highly respected news organization and knows Thailand well from his years of excellent and insightful reporting in and around the country.

You and 20% of the BBC viewership don't like him, the 80% of us do, roughly speaking.

And really, this post is not intended to be a windup to the chronic Head hating posters.

Jonathan Head belongs in a Thai prison.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-reporter-faces-threat-of-thai-jail-1211116.html

Did you read you own link? If you approve of the charges you clearly approve of censorship. No surprise there.

[Fat Haggis]

I don't particularly like the BBC, it has always been biased in its reporting regardless of where in the world this happens, these days I much prefer Al Jazeera, which is a surprise as when they were covering the Iraq war in 2004, I thought they were extremely biased but over the years in the Middle East, I've grown to admire their approach to subjects, and I prefer to watch Al Jazeera news over the BBC World service.. It's very rare these days to find impartial journalists, especially if they've spent a considerable amount of time in any one single place, they soon develop "traits" that can be construed as "bias".

[citizen33]

The guardian yesterday reported Universities throughout the UK are now speaking out and condemn the move ordering universities in Thailand to monitor the political activities of staff and students on campuses,

The e-mail below went around a few days ago. My impression, however, is that (a) it wasn't as widely distributed as it might have been, and ( b ) many people only saw the letter after it was put on the CPU website (I only received a copy yesterday and have not signed). It is interesting though that educated opinion in Europe seems different from the views of the 'educated' on TVF. It wouldn't surprise me to see 'grey listing' of Thai universities that discipline dissenting Thai academics, which could affect things like joint research, study visits and publication opportunities.

_________________________________________________________________________________

From: Campaign for the Public University [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Campaign for the Public University

Sent: 05 June 2014 13:46

To: [email protected]

Subject: Thai coup - open letter, call for signatories

Dear all,

Please see the open letter below concerning the harassment, imprisonment, and surveillance of Thai academics and students who are protesting against the recent coup and calling for democratic elections. Please email [email protected] if you would like to be a signatory to this letter by 5pm, Friday 6th June.

We will publish it on the Campaign for the Public University website and see if a national newspaper will pick it up.

For details on what is happening, see this article written by an academic in Thailand:

http://www.discoversociety.org/2014/06/03/on-the-frontline-crude-power-in-thailands-2014-coup-old-soldiers-almost-die/​

If anyone knows of any similar initiatives already happening, or whether UCU might be interested in being involved to organise a national petition, that would be great.

Best wishes,

Gurminder

--------------------------------------------------------------------

To: General Prayuth Chan-ocha, leader of the coup in Thailand

From: UK academics and university staff and students

We note the military coup d’état in Thailand (22 May 2014) – the 13th since the end of the absolute monarchy in 1932 – and stand with those protesters who are calling for a return to constitutional rule by a civilian government.

As academics and university staff and students, we also wish to express particular concern at the surveillance, harassment, and round-up of academics and students calling for democracy and the reinstatement of civilian rule. Academics and students who have been critics of the lèse-majesté law have been summonsed and we understand that some have gone into hiding as a result. We join with all others who have also called upon the Commander in Chief of the Royal Thai Army to immediately release politicians, activists, journalists, academics and others who have been harassed and imprisoned following the military summons to stop making any political criticism or comment. We condemn the move ordering universities to monitor the political activities of staff and students on campuses, and are also concerned that some universities have issued orders to their staff and students to refrain from making any political comment in the public sphere.

We support and admire the courage of university staff and students who continue to gather at Thammasat University and other protest sites. Intellectual freedom and freedom of speech are fundamental tenets of a democratic society and functioning university system alike and we urge their restoration.

[Publicus]

The dominant trend in MSM journalism the past 30 years is for a reporter / journalist to recognize the increasing sophistication of the English speaking audience, and the Western audience in general, by showing a bias but to make the bias well thought through, reasonable, clear and clean, consistent, rational, fair-minded.

You're gonna ask how bias can be fair-minded, and perhaps raise a few other issues. The BBC itself has a fair minded bias which it presents "cleanly," as does the MSM in general, Fox News does not have a fair minded or "clean" bias.

Time magazine has a fair minded and "clean" bias, the Nation in Thailand does not have one.

TVF makes some effort to try to have a fair minded bias in the news sources it selects or tries to select. Given that TVF could not get the cooperation it sought from the Bangkok Post many moons ago, it's pretty much stuck with the Nation as its primary Thailand originated MSM source.

TVF uses other sources but the Nation just outdoes them in sheer volume, detail, frequency and regularity, all of which are qualities a daily news forum about Thailand must have.

Many if not most consumers of news want to hear their viewpoint, not pretentious presentations of objectivity, and a good number want to hear the viewpoint of the other side rather than some middling journalist presuming to present the full situation of each side 50-50. The journalist's 50-50 presentation is anyway how the journalist might interpret it.

The days are past as well of journalists pretending to be "objective" or so-called neutral.

So called "objectivity" is passe' and neutrality never existed. Even the Associated Press, which for more than a hundred years was as "objective" a news organization as there ever was, most recently and consciously presents a clear if minimized bias. The same is basically true of Reuters of the UK and AFP (Agence France Presse).

Jonathan Head is but one instance of people watching a biased and clean professional journalist. Invariably, some don't like him or his presentations, a predictable fact the BBC expects and accepts. Most however approve of Mr Head, which is why he is steadily and securely employed by the BBC. Those who don't like him are a distinct and tiny minority of the BBC viewership. If most viewers didn't like Jonathan Head he'd be selling shoes instead or reporting from Khon Kean or other similar locales.

So I really enjoy reading all the constant, pointed and bitter winging around here about Jonathan Head

I suspect Thaksin enjoys it too.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Publicus

[dhrobertson]

Well, I stand corrected and disappointed

Maybe I'm just old (fashioned) but I do recall the BBC in better days when they DID try to achieve objectivity and give at least some air time to opposing views.

My information is not as parochial as you may think

I mix socially with all types here in Phuket and run a consultancy business (electrical engineering)

I also socialise in Bangkok (The British Club etc)

My wife's family are from Nakhon Phanon Province and we visit the wider family there frequently.

My son is married to woman from Buri Ram (who graduated from a top BKK university)

So, I think my sources are pretty eclectic

The Economist is also surprisingly weak on Thailand

I also think Aljazeera is pretty good.

All I'm asking for is some balance here.

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

[heybruce]

"what if the Yingluck government condoned the violence and cowardly night attacks with guns and grenades against anti-government protesters."

Condoned? Care to offer proof? I think if Yingluck and the PTP had not been doing all they could to reign in the extreme redshirt elements there would have been bloodshed many times greater.

Speaking of unsubstantiated claims rubl, what about your claim that VPN's are illegal in Thailand? Care to support or renounce that one? Remember, it's against policy to spread false rumors.

Proof? No proof, just the odd dead and purely by coincidence cowardly attacks in the night with gunfire and grenades on anti-government protests. All, because they started with protesting against the undemocratically pushed, sneakily modified blanket amnesty bill which even suddenly covered THaksin's last two years and the Yingluck Administration's first two.

No proof, must have done it themselves, don't you think?

As for VPN, in Thailand using whatever means to bypass censorship is punishable. Just like in lots of countries nowadays.

Well done rubl, you've sunk to sumtingwong's level, and that's saying a lot. "Proof? No proof", followed by completely out of context and unsubstantiated name calling and accusations, absolutely classic--"I'll believe what I want to believe and won't be confused by facts, logic, and calls for evidence." Once again, well done.

As for VPN, I don't know how to use it to bypass censorship, and I won't ask you for assistance in doing so. I can't promise that others won't.

Please indicate where in my reply I had the 'name calling'?

As for believing, no idea what you believe in, just what you write here. There may or may not be a relation between the two.

As for censorship and bypassing it, you wrote in this topic

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO. Shame on you.

If you know of any rule, military order or law that makes it illegal to read news on the internet that was not published in accordance with Thailand's censorship laws--in other words, most news, please be good enough to identify them.

[dhrobertson]

The dominant trend in MSM journalism the past 30 years is for a reporter / journalist to recognize the increasing sophistication of the English speaking audience, and the Western audience in general, by showing a bias but to make the bias well thought through, reasonable, clear and clean, consistent, rational, fair-minded.

You're gonna ask how bias can be fair-minded, and perhaps raise a few other issues. The BBC itself has a fair minded bias which it presents "cleanly," as does the MSM in general, Fox News does not have a fair minded or "clean" bias.

Time magazine has a fair minded and "clean" bias, the Nation in Thailand does not have one.

TVF makes some effort to try to have a fair minded bias in the news sources it selects or tries to select. Given that TVF could not get the cooperation it sought from the Bangkok Post many moons ago, it's pretty much stuck with the Nation as its primary Thailand originated MSM source.

TVF uses other sources but the Nation just outdoes them in sheer volume, detail, frequency and regularity, all of which are qualities a daily news forum about Thailand must have.

Many if not most consumers of news want to hear their viewpoint, not pretentious presentations of objectivity, and a good number want to hear the viewpoint of the other side rather than some middling journalist presuming to present the full situation of each side 50-50. The journalist's 50-50 presentation is anyway how the journalist might interpret it.

The days are past as well of journalists pretending to be "objective" or so-called neutral.

So called "objectivity" is passe' and neutrality never existed. Even the Associated Press, which for more than a hundred years was as "objective" a news organization as there ever was, most recently and consciously presents a clear if minimized bias. The same is basically true of Reuters of the UK and AFP (Agence France Presse).

Jonathan Head is but one instance of people watching a biased and clean professional journalist. Invariably, some don't like him or his presentations, a predictable fact the BBC expects and accepts. Most however approve of Mr Head, which is why he is steadily and securely employed by the BBC. Those who don't like him are a distinct and tiny minority of the BBC viewership. If most viewers didn't like Jonathan Head he'd be selling shoes instead or reporting from Khon Kean or other similar locales.

So I really enjoy reading all the constant, pointed and bitter winging around here about Jonathan Head

I suspect Thaksin enjoys it too.

Tell us, Publicus, Sir, are you a media studies graduate? Who taught you buzzz words like MSM?

From which moral high ground do you pontificate?

Oh, go on..... do tell........

[citizen33]

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

Edited June 10, 2014 by citizen33

[rabas]

Proof? No proof, just the odd dead and purely by coincidence cowardly attacks in the night with gunfire and grenades on anti-government protests. All, because they started with protesting against the undemocratically pushed, sneakily modified blanket amnesty bill which even suddenly covered THaksin's last two years and the Yingluck Administration's first two.

No proof, must have done it themselves, don't you think?

As for VPN, in Thailand using whatever means to bypass censorship is punishable. Just like in lots of countries nowadays.

Well done rubl, you've sunk to sumtingwong's level, and that's saying a lot. "Proof? No proof", followed by completely out of context and unsubstantiated name calling and accusations, absolutely classic--"I'll believe what I want to believe and won't be confused by facts, logic, and calls for evidence." Once again, well done.

As for VPN, I don't know how to use it to bypass censorship, and I won't ask you for assistance in doing so. I can't promise that others won't.

Please indicate where in my reply I had the 'name calling'?

As for believing, no idea what you believe in, just what you write here. There may or may not be a relation between the two.

As for censorship and bypassing it, you wrote in this topic

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO. Shame on you.

If you know of any rule, military order or law that makes it illegal to read news on the internet that was not published in accordance with Thailand's censorship laws--in other words, most news, please be good enough to identify them.

Google "laws against internet content". I get 433,000,000 hits. I'm sure what you are looking for is in there somewhere, sorry I don't have 10000 years to go through it all.

[rubl]

Proof? No proof, just the odd dead and purely by coincidence cowardly attacks in the night with gunfire and grenades on anti-government protests. All, because they started with protesting against the undemocratically pushed, sneakily modified blanket amnesty bill which even suddenly covered THaksin's last two years and the Yingluck Administration's first two.

No proof, must have done it themselves, don't you think?

As for VPN, in Thailand using whatever means to bypass censorship is punishable. Just like in lots of countries nowadays.

Well done rubl, you've sunk to sumtingwong's level, and that's saying a lot. "Proof? No proof", followed by completely out of context and unsubstantiated name calling and accusations, absolutely classic--"I'll believe what I want to believe and won't be confused by facts, logic, and calls for evidence." Once again, well done.

As for VPN, I don't know how to use it to bypass censorship, and I won't ask you for assistance in doing so. I can't promise that others won't.

Please indicate where in my reply I had the 'name calling'?

As for believing, no idea what you believe in, just what you write here. There may or may not be a relation between the two.

As for censorship and bypassing it, you wrote in this topic

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO. Shame on you.

If you know of any rule, military order or law that makes it illegal to read news on the internet that was not published in accordance with Thailand's censorship laws--in other words, most news, please be good enough to identify them.

My dear chap, what about the 'name calling' you accused me of? Did you already manage to find it in my reply?

BTW your question on laws twists things round a bit apart from being so vague as not to ask about the specific situation in Thailand. That suggests a.o. you might not be in Thailand at the moment.

PS did you read about the red-shirt 'catch-me-if-you-can' Sombat and how he was tracked by his IP address?

[thaibeachlovers]

The coup was not an act against Democracy, it was against Thaksin's government (again) abusing and subverting Democracy and to stop the Red Shirts from continuing their acts of terrorism and threats of civil war.

Prayuth already set as an objective to have elections after reforms to strenghten Democracy are in place, so far the most significant reform has been dismantling the Shinawatra's clan control on the RTP hierarchy, you can't have a funtioning Democracy when the law enforcement works for one political party instead of for the whole society.

By the way, it seems you overlooked this post.

The democratically elected government was swept out by two coups, one judicial and one military.

The current government is a military one that rules by martial law.

Democracy is gone.

No democracy on the horizon.

The chief of staff of the U.S. Army called Gen Prayuth to urge immediate restoration of democracy and got a run around.

Don't try to give me promises or assurances when the government was swept out by a military mutiny coup d'état because I won't believe you. No one on this side believes you. No one has any reason to believe you.

No reason whatsoever.

No such thing as "real" democracy anywhere. Closest is Switzerland with it's referendums.

Those that control the world allow a sham to placate the masses in their ignorance.

Where in my post did I say "real" democracy?

You're pulling stuff out of your arse the air.

That's the talk of the Thai and fahlang feudalists, that "real" democracy doesn't exist in Thailand. That's the standard running line of the feudalists, that "true" democracy doesn't exist in Thailand. That "actual" democracy doesn't exist.

That's the line propagated by you people so you can cheerfully claim there is no "real" democracy. You believe that if you can establish that big lie, then you therefore can invalidate Thai democracy to make way for the old feudal order to be dredged up and dumped on an unwilling population..

You feudalists have finally become carried away in your own reactionary and bogus rhetoric. By trying to deny democracy exists in the present and post-feudal world, you unsuccessfully try to justify your efforts to turn back the clock to the pre-democracy epoch of history, You try to propagandize the fraudulent theme because if you can establish the lie that Thai democracy doesn't "really" exist, then you might convince people everywhere Thailand loses nothing when you destroy the democratically elected government. .

You'd been chasing your own tails for months on end and now you've finally caught your tails and have bitten them.

Busted!

If I can't vote in a "real" democracy, why bother?

Singapore in the 70s was far from a democracy, but I'd rather have that government than the populist incompetents that inhabit parliament in my country.

As for the jist of what you are saying, keep your blinders on, man, just keep believing the BS.

<now you've finally caught your tails and have bitten them>

?????????? The coup has made absolutely no difference to me in Thailand, other than a few days without tv and a curfew which doesn't affect me anyway.

[fab4]

My dear chap, what about the 'name calling' you accused me of? Did you already manage to find it in my reply?

BTW your question on laws twists things round a bit apart from being so vague as not to ask about the specific situation in Thailand. That suggests a.o. you might not be in Thailand at the moment.

PS did you read about the red-shirt 'catch-me-if-you-can' Sombat and how he was tracked by his IP address?

Did you read about the fact that he was found by accident?

Capture of Sombat was 'accidental'

The arrest of leading anti-coup campaigner Sombat Boonngam-anong on Thursday night was accidental and came from a joint police-military raid on a house in Chon Buri suspected of operating a website insulting the monarchy and inciting violence.

Other sources said yesterday that Sombat's arrest came after authorities tracked suspected Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, but they did not clarify whether he was the intended target.

"We have a team who tracked him through the Internet," Army spokeswoman Sirichan Ngathong was quoted as saying by Agence France-Presse.

Earlier news reports quoted an adviser to Police Maj General Pisit Pao-in, permanent secretary of Information, Communications and Technology, as saying that the NIA had played a part in arresting Sombat by tracing his IP address. But NIA director Suwaphan Tanyuvardhana yesterday denied the agency was involved.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/732331-capture-of-sombat-was-accidental/#entry7938575

[jaidam]

My dear chap, what about the 'name calling' you accused me of? Did you already manage to find it in my reply?

BTW your question on laws twists things round a bit apart from being so vague as not to ask about the specific situation in Thailand. That suggests a.o. you might not be in Thailand at the moment.

PS did you read about the red-shirt 'catch-me-if-you-can' Sombat and how he was tracked by his IP address?

Did you read about the fact that he was found by accident?

Capture of Sombat was 'accidental'

The arrest of leading anti-coup campaigner Sombat Boonngam-anong on Thursday night was accidental and came from a joint police-military raid on a house in Chon Buri suspected of operating a website insulting the monarchy and inciting violence.

Other sources said yesterday that Sombat's arrest came after authorities tracked suspected Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, but they did not clarify whether he was the intended target.

"We have a team who tracked him through the Internet," Army spokeswoman Sirichan Ngathong was quoted as saying by Agence France-Presse.

Earlier news reports quoted an adviser to Police Maj General Pisit Pao-in, permanent secretary of Information, Communications and Technology, as saying that the NIA had played a part in arresting Sombat by tracing his IP address. But NIA director Suwaphan Tanyuvardhana yesterday denied the agency was involved.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/732331-capture-of-sombat-was-accidental/#entry7938575

Little snippet from the other rag says that Sombat "has been held in military custody since, attending classes to "fine-tune" his attitude."

Absolutely Priceless! I'll bet he left thanking the kind generals for their help in adjusting his warped thinking. Prayuth is well on his well to sainthood.

[bigbamboo]

I don't particularly like the BBC, it has always been biased in its reporting regardless of where in the world this happens, these days I much prefer Al Jazeera, which is a surprise as when they were covering the Iraq war in 2004, I thought they were extremely biased but over the years in the Middle East, I've grown to admire their approach to subjects, and I prefer to watch Al Jazeera news over the BBC World service.. It's very rare these days to find impartial journalists, especially if they've spent a considerable amount of time in any one single place, they soon develop "traits" that can be construed as "bias".

As an Englishman I have to admit that sadly the BBC is not what it was and certainly not what they like to claim to be. With some notable exceptions the standard of journalism and presentation just seems to get worse and at times almost embarrassing.

I agree Al Jazeera's improvement over recent years has been little short of remarkable.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. If you believe a post contravenes the rules, then please report it. Discussing tracking of members is off-topic.

[fab4]

An off-topic post has been removed. If you believe a post contravenes the rules, then please report it. Discussing tracking of members is off-topic.

Not to mention leaving a bad taste in the mouth at the thought of anybody advocating that action.

[Emptyset]

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Jonathan Head is a professional journalist for a highly respected news organization and knows Thailand well from his years of excellent and insightful reporting in and around the country.

You and 20% of the BBC viewership don't like him, the 80% of us do, roughly speaking.

And really, this post is not intended to be a windup to the chronic Head hating posters.

Jonathan Head belongs in a Thai prison.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-reporter-faces-threat-of-thai-jail-1211116.html

Well his reporting does not reflect the view of the Thais or foreigners I meet on a day to day basis.

In fact, people seem to welcome the coup with a sense of optimism

Head thinks the lack of protest in the NE is becaused people are cowed. I disagree.

Thai people that I know have always held the army in quite high esteem.

I think the truth of the matter is that most are optimistic or at least ambivalent

Head is welcome to his opinion but a balanced view would be appropriate in my opinion

Historically coups have always been welcomed in Thailand with a sense of optimism by many Thais. They have been taught to think that autocratic leadership and a "quiet politics" is best. They believe Thailand is best thought of as a family, and that people should do what their parents say, as long as those parents are considered "good" people. However, if you don't think a large proportion of people think differently about this, you're mistaken. It's part of Head's job to seek out those people and allow them to be heard. It's interesting that it tends to be only the extremists who attack Jonathan Head (a minority of pro-red extremists have also attacked him for being a "fascist sympathiser" but the vast majority of attacks on him come from the pro-coup side)... one gets the feeling that these people will be unhappy whatever Head says, short of him filing a report where he blows a whistle for three minutes in celebration of the junta.

Now, it's obvious that some Thai people are very happy - particularly the PDRC supporters in the south and BKK - and some others will be adopting a wait and see attitude, pleased that things have calmed down. It's also pretty obvious that most red supporters will be resentful about what's happening. As I said above, coups tend to be initially welcomed by many, but then as Duncan McCargo says in his recent article for Foreign Policy magazine ("After the Putsch Come the Punches"):

"Thailand's 69 million people are some of the most politicized and polarized people on the planet. The notion that they are going to embrace peace and orderliness on the instructions of a few guys in uniform is a joke. Thais like the rhetoric of order and enjoy the idea of a strong leader, but the novelty wears off once they have had a few weeks of stiff military paternalism."

This is the typical honeymoon period historically enjoyed by Thai coup makers. The junta is also carrying out the social order campaign and crackdown on "dark influences" which is typical of Thai autocrats who became widely beloved and respected (and also hated in equal measure). Thaksin and Sarit are two good precedents. It's a smart move initially. But in four or five months I'd expect many people's attitudes to have shifted... if history is any guide, at any rate.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Emptyset

[dhrobertson]

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

How depressing. I thought the communist days were over! Ha!

Dunelm

[jayboy]

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

Game,set and match!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wolf5370]

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Jonathan Head is a professional journalist for a highly respected news organization and knows Thailand well from his years of excellent and insightful reporting in and around the country.

You and 20% of the BBC viewership don't like him, the 80% of us do, roughly speaking.

And really, this post is not intended to be a windup to the chronic Head hating posters.

Jonathan Head belongs in a Thai prison.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-reporter-faces-threat-of-thai-jail-1211116.html

Why because he says things you dont like ? a reporters job is to follow a story and report. That it may not be to some peoples liking is irrelevant thats what reporters are supposed to do, follow a story and peoples personal stories will always have a personal point of view. Clearly those people have.

Thats the beauty and point of freedom of the press. ( which of course Thailand dosnt have and the BBC does. They are supposed to watch the watchers and expose that story which challenges the status quo where and when they find it. mostly a report is a one side story when its a one on one, especially interviews. Take Michael Yon as an alternative if you like or others out there, for other sides there are plenty to choose from.

If it helps Mr Mugabe dosnt like the BBC either so your in good company there.

Its not a tale of two cities its a follow up report of a previous visit and video and how things have changed in 6 mths from the same area. Rather strikingly different id say.

I would suggest it's not because was he reports is not to his liking, but because it is not true. Thaksin had the chief editor of BKK Post fired for allowing stories that pout him in a bad light - true ones (otherwise he would have sued for libel instead - so by your logic, does that him a "Mugabe" too?

[wolf5370]

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Are you saying that the people Head interviewed were lying?

Thank goodness that we still have access to uncensored media reports.

Lying or not is not always relevant. It is selective reporting. I am sure you can find a KKK member to tell you about the oppression of the whites in the USA and the evil control of the Jews and Blacks - would that make it true or news worthy? The Beeb should be ashamed of such biased unchecked reporting - they should have learned that lesson over events that cost the DG his job a few years back! If they put someone like Head on, they should counter with either commentary, questions or a report from the other stable.

[heybruce]

Well done rubl, you've sunk to sumtingwong's level, and that's saying a lot. "Proof? No proof", followed by completely out of context and unsubstantiated name calling and accusations, absolutely classic--"I'll believe what I want to believe and won't be confused by facts, logic, and calls for evidence." Once again, well done.

As for VPN, I don't know how to use it to bypass censorship, and I won't ask you for assistance in doing so. I can't promise that others won't.

Please indicate where in my reply I had the 'name calling'?

As for believing, no idea what you believe in, just what you write here. There may or may not be a relation between the two.

As for censorship and bypassing it, you wrote in this topic

"Those who are genuinely interested in possible alternative motives of the generals need to check uncensored news sources."

"As far as I know it's still legal to look for news on the web, there's just some information you can't disseminate in Thailand."

It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO. Shame on you.

If you know of any rule, military order or law that makes it illegal to read news on the internet that was not published in accordance with Thailand's censorship laws--in other words, most news, please be good enough to identify them.

My dear chap, what about the 'name calling' you accused me of? Did you already manage to find it in my reply?

BTW your question on laws twists things round a bit apart from being so vague as not to ask about the specific situation in Thailand. That suggests a.o. you might not be in Thailand at the moment.

PS did you read about the red-shirt 'catch-me-if-you-can' Sombat and how he was tracked by his IP address?

I ignored name calling because I wanted you to justify your repeated insinuation that using the internet to read news sources from outside Thailand is illegal. For example in post #1012 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728548-international-alarm-mounts-over-thai-coup/page-41 you wrote:

"Well, nice for you, but those of us in Thailand cannot see all news sources outside Thailand. Even using VPN is forbidden and was already mentioned in the Criminal Computer Act the Yingluck government liked so much."

In post #1018 you wrote:

"Well, it seems you learned something new today. Bypassing censorship is illegal, describing how to use VPN to do such is against forum rules,"

And above you wrote:

"It almost looks like you are just acting as an 'agent provocateur', trying to get us innocent TVF members to act in an unlawful manner in order to report us to the NCPO."

This implies I was urging people to do something illegal by encouraging them to check the internet for uncensored news while cautioning them against disseminating news that might fall into the censored category.

In summary, you stated "using a VPN is forbidden", "Bypassing censorship is illegal" and suggested I'm an "agent provocateur" for encouraging people to stay informed using uncensored news. Can you provide any rule, regulation, law, military order or anything else that would support these statements? Or do you just object to people staying informed?

[wolf5370]

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

Game,set and match!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Erm, Kim Philby (Stanley), Donald Duart Maclean (Homer), Guy Burgess (Hicks) and Anthony Blunt (Johnson) - the Cambridge Four - were also Cambridge alumni, does say so much for honesty there then!

[wolf5370]

Historically coups have always been welcomed in Thailand with a sense of optimism by many Thais. They have been taught to think that autocratic leadership and a "quiet politics" is best. They believe Thailand is best thought of as a family, and that people should do what their parents say, as long as those parents are considered "good" people. However, if you don't think a large proportion of people think differently about this, you're mistaken. It's part of Head's job to seek out those people and allow them to be heard. It's interesting that it tends to be only the extremists who attack Jonathan Head (a minority of pro-red extremists have also attacked him for being a "fascist sympathiser" but the vast majority of attacks on him come from the pro-coup side)... one gets the feeling that these people will be unhappy whatever Head says, short of him filing a report where he blows a whistle for three minutes in celebration of the junta.

Now, it's obvious that some Thai people are very happy - particularly the PDRC supporters in the south and BKK - and some others will be adopting a wait and see attitude, pleased that things have calmed down. It's also pretty obvious that most red supporters will be resentful about what's happening. As I said above, coups tend to be initially welcomed by many, but then as Duncan McCargo says in his recent article for Foreign Policy magazine ("After the Putsch Come the Punches"):

"Thailand's 69 million people are some of the most politicized and polarized people on the planet. The notion that they are going to embrace peace and orderliness on the instructions of a few guys in uniform is a joke. Thais like the rhetoric of order and enjoy the idea of a strong leader, but the novelty wears off once they have had a few weeks of stiff military paternalism."

This is the typical honeymoon period historically enjoyed by Thai coup makers. The junta is also carrying out the social order campaign and crackdown on "dark influences" which is typical of Thai autocrats who became widely beloved and respected (and also hated in equal measure). Thaksin and Sarit are two good precedents. It's a smart move initially. But in four or five months I'd expect many people's attitudes to have shifted... if history is any guide, at any rate.

I think more and more people are feeling happy about this - the good honest people that is. As they see, top brass corrupt cops moved out of their control positions, guns and bombs being taken off the streets, terrorist plots stopped, outstanding rice debts paid to the poorest in society, dodgy rice millers put away a long time, taxi mafia dismantled in Phuket, moves to (re)introduce a hop-on-hop-off fixed fare transport system for the public in Phuket, assets being checked for those who suddenly have many more millions put away than they could have legally earned whilst in authority, crack down on gambling that is real and not just lip service to remove competition, continuing with ASEAN - including attending the SOM, rice stock checks, hitting the so called Amart like PTT when everyone said they wouldn't, investigating logistic routes/rice scheme/high speed train/flood defences, moving on with flood defences with careful checks against corruption continuing, removing freebies that was killing the national carrier, listening and thuis removing curfew in most tourist areas and moving them outside of the legal venue opening times, investigating and moves to remove loan shark debts, and so on....

So whom is unhappy? UDD leaders, gambling den owners, illegal loan sharks, corrupt officials, chief's of police that stopped their officers doing their job for profit and political reasons, fraudsters, taxi mafia ??? Yep, guess we can live with a few unhappy people!

[Emptyset]

Jonathan Head is but one instance of people watching a biased and clean professional journalist. Invariably, some don't like him or his presentations, a predictable fact the BBC expects and accepts. Most however approve of Mr Head, which is why he is steadily and securely employed by the BBC. Those who don't like him are a distinct and tiny minority of the BBC viewership. If most viewers didn't like Jonathan Head he'd be selling shoes instead or reporting from Khon Kean or other similar locales.

"If most viewers didn't like Jonathan Head he'd be selling shoes instead or reporting from Khon Kean" sorry for snipping your post, but thought it was ironic that you said this since Jonathan appears to have raised some people's ire for having the temerity of reporting from Udon.

It's worth pointing out that Head no doubt knows far more about all sides than he's able to convey in a 3 minute news report. That's partly a function of limited time, and partly due to the fact that much of this information would be irrelevant to a wider audience who simply require a snapshot of the broader picture. He seems to be singled out yet I don't really see that his take is much different from other foreign correspondents. I believe he's one of the few that claimed the red militants were behind grenade attacks on the PDRC - others generally expressed no view over who the culprits might be. This is actually one of the things Andrew Spooner attacked him over - and for those that are unaware of Mr Spooner, he appears to be the red shirt equivalent of Michael Yon - as Head had claimed there were perhaps "several thousand" red shirt hardliners ready and able to employ violence. Perhaps Andrew Spooner had a point, because realistically you'd assume there wouldn't be more than a few hundred, if that.

Anyway, I don't think Jonathan Head is particularly biased. But there are some biased journalists who have obvious sympathies yet still - in my view - try to find out what the truth of the situation is and convey this honestly. Nick Nostitz and Shaun Crispin are two of them, from opposing sides. They have a slant which people should be aware of (both deeply affected by personal incidents in their lives I believe) yet I've always considered them both as required reading and never thought they've deliberately tried to present a distorted picture.

[Emptyset]

Historically coups have always been welcomed in Thailand with a sense of optimism by many Thais. They have been taught to think that autocratic leadership and a "quiet politics" is best. They believe Thailand is best thought of as a family, and that people should do what their parents say, as long as those parents are considered "good" people. However, if you don't think a large proportion of people think differently about this, you're mistaken. It's part of Head's job to seek out those people and allow them to be heard. It's interesting that it tends to be only the extremists who attack Jonathan Head (a minority of pro-red extremists have also attacked him for being a "fascist sympathiser" but the vast majority of attacks on him come from the pro-coup side)... one gets the feeling that these people will be unhappy whatever Head says, short of him filing a report where he blows a whistle for three minutes in celebration of the junta.

Now, it's obvious that some Thai people are very happy - particularly the PDRC supporters in the south and BKK - and some others will be adopting a wait and see attitude, pleased that things have calmed down. It's also pretty obvious that most red supporters will be resentful about what's happening. As I said above, coups tend to be initially welcomed by many, but then as Duncan McCargo says in his recent article for Foreign Policy magazine ("After the Putsch Come the Punches"):

"Thailand's 69 million people are some of the most politicized and polarized people on the planet. The notion that they are going to embrace peace and orderliness on the instructions of a few guys in uniform is a joke. Thais like the rhetoric of order and enjoy the idea of a strong leader, but the novelty wears off once they have had a few weeks of stiff military paternalism."

This is the typical honeymoon period historically enjoyed by Thai coup makers. The junta is also carrying out the social order campaign and crackdown on "dark influences" which is typical of Thai autocrats who became widely beloved and respected (and also hated in equal measure). Thaksin and Sarit are two good precedents. It's a smart move initially. But in four or five months I'd expect many people's attitudes to have shifted... if history is any guide, at any rate.

I think more and more people are feeling happy about this - the good honest people that is. As they see, top brass corrupt cops moved out of their control positions, guns and bombs being taken off the streets, terrorist plots stopped, outstanding rice debts paid to the poorest in society, dodgy rice millers put away a long time, taxi mafia dismantled in Phuket, moves to (re)introduce a hop-on-hop-off fixed fare transport system for the public in Phuket, assets being checked for those who suddenly have many more millions put away than they could have legally earned whilst in authority, crack down on gambling that is real and not just lip service to remove competition, continuing with ASEAN - including attending the SOM, rice stock checks, hitting the so called Amart like PTT when everyone said they wouldn't, investigating logistic routes/rice scheme/high speed train/flood defences, moving on with flood defences with careful checks against corruption continuing, removing freebies that was killing the national carrier, listening and thuis removing curfew in most tourist areas and moving them outside of the legal venue opening times, investigating and moves to remove loan shark debts, and so on....

So whom is unhappy? UDD leaders, gambling den owners, illegal loan sharks, corrupt officials, chief's of police that stopped their officers doing their job for profit and political reasons, fraudsters, taxi mafia ??? Yep, guess we can live with a few unhappy people!

I don't see any way of really accurately gauging happiness short of an election or referendum and we know those things are out of the question, so I'm suspcious of those who go on about "most Thai people being happy" (or unhappy for that matter). But as I pointed out regards what you say above, yes, many people like this style of leadership and it's how Thaksin, Sarit etc started off too. However, this is all largely about image at the moment. It's far too early to judge if there are real - lasting - positive effects of these measures or if it's just about replacing one set of "influences" with another. Gambling dens were also cracked down upon during the last coup. Is this really any sort of long-term solution? How about considering legalisation?

Also I think many were rightly worried when Thaksin carried out similar campaigns, fearing innocent people and those considered political opponents were being wrongly caught up in it. I don't see why similar caution isn't necessary here. BKK Post had a good report at the weekend on what's going on in Khon Kaen which offered a different picture. Of course, as it has published some mild criticism of the junta, many coup boosters have decided the Post is now a "red shirt" paper and have stopped reading it (ironic as many on the Post board of directors have ties to or are directly involved with the junta - Pridiyathorn etc). Perhaps you also feel that way. However, if not, the article is titled "Out of step with the junta". I think it's worth a read, anyway.