International alarm mounts over Thai coup

rubl · June 16, 2014

So you were using sarcasm and irony; interesting. Does this mean that you think the detentions and restrictions are arbitrary?

""If the detentions and restrictions were arbitrary I would also be worried. Fortunately I'm told by a few posters here, that there is reason behind this even if we cannot read those reasons from Thai news sources ""

Even without those 'interesting' other news sources it seems clear that there is reason behind detentions and restrictions. No idea what made the 'UN experts concerned about arbitrary detentions and restrictions'. So far there seems to be no indication to justify that fear.

Maybe you in your search for 'broader views' have found some?

Sarcasm and irony again?

From the report:

"Particular concern was expressed with regard to the chilling effects of the summoning by the military of more than 440 individuals, including political leaders, academics, journalists and activists to army bases. Many remain in detention without access to family or lawyer. Some are held incommunicado in unknown locations and may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment."

The fact that people are summoned with no reason given and held incommunicado in unknown locations is cause for concern. I'm sure if the previous government had rounded up a few hundred prominent activists for unspecified reasons and held them under similar conditions you would have been concerned.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

Edited June 16, 2014 by rubl

heybruce · June 16, 2014

So you were using sarcasm and irony; interesting. Does this mean that you think the detentions and restrictions are arbitrary?

""If the detentions and restrictions were arbitrary I would also be worried. Fortunately I'm told by a few posters here, that there is reason behind this even if we cannot read those reasons from Thai news sources ""

Even without those 'interesting' other news sources it seems clear that there is reason behind detentions and restrictions. No idea what made the 'UN experts concerned about arbitrary detentions and restrictions'. So far there seems to be no indication to justify that fear.

Maybe you in your search for 'broader views' have found some?

Sarcasm and irony again?

From the report:

"Particular concern was expressed with regard to the chilling effects of the summoning by the military of more than 440 individuals, including political leaders, academics, journalists and activists to army bases. Many remain in detention without access to family or lawyer. Some are held incommunicado in unknown locations and may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment."

The fact that people are summoned with no reason given and held incommunicado in unknown locations is cause for concern. I'm sure if the previous government had rounded up a few hundred prominent activists for unspecified reasons and held them under similar conditions you would have been concerned.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

rubl · June 17, 2014

""If the detentions and restrictions were arbitrary I would also be worried. Fortunately I'm told by a few posters here, that there is reason behind this even if we cannot read those reasons from Thai news sources ""

Even without those 'interesting' other news sources it seems clear that there is reason behind detentions and restrictions. No idea what made the 'UN experts concerned about arbitrary detentions and restrictions'. So far there seems to be no indication to justify that fear.

Maybe you in your search for 'broader views' have found some?

Sarcasm and irony again?

From the report:

"Particular concern was expressed with regard to the chilling effects of the summoning by the military of more than 440 individuals, including political leaders, academics, journalists and activists to army bases. Many remain in detention without access to family or lawyer. Some are held incommunicado in unknown locations and may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment."

The fact that people are summoned with no reason given and held incommunicado in unknown locations is cause for concern. I'm sure if the previous government had rounded up a few hundred prominent activists for unspecified reasons and held them under similar conditions you would have been concerned.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

Rube, as usual very informative to most posters but your aiming at a minute section that keep replying for you to reply. Let it dry up mate as you can see it's not registering, these few rely on you to keep active.

Use your expertise on other matters my friend.

We all have at sometime pointed out your points, but as you see it's like peeing into head wind. It is now over for the Yingluck tribe we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them. What's been done is done now. Shins-are old hat, but we will never forget. Keep up the brill stuff.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

""If the detentions and restrictions were arbitrary I would also be worried. Fortunately I'm told by a few posters here, that there is reason behind this even if we cannot read those reasons from Thai news sources ""

Even without those 'interesting' other news sources it seems clear that there is reason behind detentions and restrictions. No idea what made the 'UN experts concerned about arbitrary detentions and restrictions'. So far there seems to be no indication to justify that fear.

Maybe you in your search for 'broader views' have found some?

Sarcasm and irony again?

From the report:

"Particular concern was expressed with regard to the chilling effects of the summoning by the military of more than 440 individuals, including political leaders, academics, journalists and activists to army bases. Many remain in detention without access to family or lawyer. Some are held incommunicado in unknown locations and may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment."

The fact that people are summoned with no reason given and held incommunicado in unknown locations is cause for concern. I'm sure if the previous government had rounded up a few hundred prominent activists for unspecified reasons and held them under similar conditions you would have been concerned.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

Before it was anti criticism of Yingluck/PTP, then anti Suthep/Dems, now it's anti coup, what's the next diversion ???

pmugghc · June 17, 2014

In case anyone was wondering why we haven't heard from Thaksin...

They Got Thaksin's Family.jpg

Pictures on bands tying Thaksin, on his mouth: Panthongthae Shinawatra [Thaksin's son]; on his wrists: Pinthongtha and Phaethongtha Shinawatra [Thaksin's daughters]; on his ankles; Pojjaman Na Pompet [Thaksin's former wife]

[Thaksin's silence since the coup has been unusual. The promised civil war that was threatened for years did not materialize and no coherent strategy was forthcoming from the Pheu Thai Party. Some speculated that the completely unexpected timing of the coup caught Shinawatra family members inside the country and this has stayed Thaksin's hand in definitively stating a position and countermeasures to the coup.]

Where is Yingluck's drawing?

rametindallas · June 17, 2014

In case anyone was wondering why we haven't heard from Thaksin...

They Got Thaksin's Family.jpg

Pictures on bands tying Thaksin, on his mouth: Panthongthae Shinawatra [Thaksin's son]; on his wrists: Pinthongtha and Phaethongtha Shinawatra [Thaksin's daughters]; on his ankles; Pojjaman Na Pompet [Thaksin's former wife]

[Thaksin's silence since the coup has been unusual. The promised civil war that was threatened for years did not materialize and no coherent strategy was forthcoming from the Pheu Thai Party. Some speculated that the completely unexpected timing of the coup caught Shinawatra family members inside the country and this has stayed Thaksin's hand in definitively stating a position and countermeasures to the coup.]

Where is Yingluck's drawing?

Ha, to that narcissist, she was just another disposable pawn. They didn't grow up together so the bond is not as close as that of his children and mother of his children. Also, possibly, the cartoonist ran out of room.

citizen33 · June 17, 2014

Aljazeera have a feature on the NE.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/06/military-raids-thailand-red-shirt-disquiet-201461684655762406.html#.U585MSaBgS4.wordpress

heybruce · June 17, 2014

Sarcasm and irony again?

From the report:

"Particular concern was expressed with regard to the chilling effects of the summoning by the military of more than 440 individuals, including political leaders, academics, journalists and activists to army bases. Many remain in detention without access to family or lawyer. Some are held incommunicado in unknown locations and may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment."

The fact that people are summoned with no reason given and held incommunicado in unknown locations is cause for concern. I'm sure if the previous government had rounded up a few hundred prominent activists for unspecified reasons and held them under similar conditions you would have been concerned.

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

Well, the military started with invited representatives of the 'warring' factions, but as nothing came of it except accusations and condemnation of the other side by each and all of them, the military staged a coup.

Following they summoned about all of the top-10/20/50 of ALL factions and seems to have kept 'opponents' about the same number of hours or days. Following they even escorted those with warrants outstanding to the relevant courts. More were summoned to 'pick their brains' on issues and excused after hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'. Mind you, the confiscation of a mobile phone can be seen as real cruel and inhumane Still waiting to see what our more informed members can come up with.

By now most if not all fears of the UN should be quieted down.

BTW are you really asking me to comment on your last question? I thought all understood that even a undemocratic government as the Yingluck 'led' one is under certain restrictions. Mostly because they still try desperately to convince all to be 'democratic' and with 'peoples mandate'. All threats by Pheu THai MPs and members suggest they would have loved to be able to do what the NCPO has done, but in their case it would be against anti-government people only. At least the NCPO is much more impartial in this. Now that should make the UN a wee bit more happy. Of course it doesn't help our international posters who show a growing alarm at the demise of their beloved heroes.

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

Rube, as usual very informative to most posters but your aiming at a minute section that keep replying for you to reply. Let it dry up mate as you can see it's not registering, these few rely on you to keep active.

Use your expertise on other matters my friend.

We all have at sometime pointed out your points, but as you see it's like peeing into head wind. It is now over for the Yingluck tribe we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them. What's been done is done now. Shins-are old hat, but we will never forget. Keep up the brill stuff.

"we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them."

The thread on public inputs to reform http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731829-public-opinion-to-be-considered-in-reform-thailand/?hl=%2Breform received very little attention from you and others, and nothing specific. I think rubl posted something about leaving reforms up to the Thai people, meaning the military. It seems some people have unlimited faith in the ability and good will of the military.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

At the time you were talking about it was impossible to have an election it would have served no purpose.

Most of the persons that could have been elected, would have been thrown out after the elections. We are seeing who they are now aren't we ???

That is why the elections were stopped, The gunge had to be flushed away first. That was anyone with bad intentions to govern.

You finally said, " it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution" SO leave it at that and wait.

The sour taste in your mouth needs a mouthwash and hopefully you can have a little patience and devour what progress is being made.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

Rube, as usual very informative to most posters but your aiming at a minute section that keep replying for you to reply. Let it dry up mate as you can see it's not registering, these few rely on you to keep active.

Use your expertise on other matters my friend.

We all have at sometime pointed out your points, but as you see it's like peeing into head wind. It is now over for the Yingluck tribe we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them. What's been done is done now. Shins-are old hat, but we will never forget. Keep up the brill stuff.

"we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them."

The thread on public inputs to reform http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731829-public-opinion-to-be-considered-in-reform-thailand/?hl=%2Breform received very little attention from you and others, and nothing specific. I think rubl posted something about leaving reforms up to the Thai people, meaning the military. It seems some people have unlimited faith in the ability and good will of the military.

Whatever the military has in mind, whoever it uses to gather intelligence to put new reforms on paper to be scrutinized --time has to be taken to make sure no repeats of previous years loopholes can be repeated.

Now the Thai population has an idea who is good and who is not good they are now more aware of the situation. Thai people will be better informed from this day to (I hope) not make the same election mistakes. It was quite clear that PTP got elected and messed the job up completely so I am pleased Thais are now much more aware for next time.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

"So far there doesn't seem to be a list of 'missing persons', 'tortured persons', or 'ill-treated persons'."

The UN couldn't account for more than 440 people summoned but you can. I'm impressed. I assume can also justify your claim that the NCPO has been impartial in its summons.

Many posts ago I commented on people's tendency to twist language in an Orwellian manner to rewrite history. Your reference to the elected government as undemocratic is an example. At least you haven't yet referred to the current government as democratic.

Perhaps some people in Yingluck's government would have liked to do what the military is now doing, but they didn't. At the time there were laws against such things.

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

At the time you were talking about it was impossible to have an election it would have served no purpose.

Most of the persons that could have been elected, would have been thrown out after the elections. We are seeing who they are now aren't we ???

That is why the elections were stopped, The gunge had to be flushed away first. That was anyone with bad intentions to govern.

You finally said, " it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution" SO leave it at that and wait.

The sour taste in your mouth needs a mouthwash and hopefully you can have a little patience and devour what progress is being made.

That argument has been played out many times in this thread. The facts remain: one side wanted elections, one side opposed them, and the military ensured there would be no elections until the military says when and under what conditions there will be elections.

I'll point out something else that's quite obvious: some people support democracy even when they don't agree with the election outcomes, and some opportunists only support democracy when it serves their purposes. Under current conditions it's easy to distinguish between the two.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

The article with the "UN experts" mentions 440 persons summoned and "Many remain in detention". The NCPO seems to have forgotten to inform the UN of all and any of it's activities. Mind you, I don't think any other country reports directly and immediately to the UN.

As for 'impartial summoning' of course the summoning is not impartial. All major players involved in the seven months confusion were summoned. Furthermore a few more of the previous government were summoned just because they were the previous government and supposed to run the country for all Thai. The UN's fear for arbitrary detention seems just the normal political double speak for "we don't like this" without any proof and based on an NCPO not having come around doing the UN required reporting. The "may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment" seems a wee bit overdone as well. A fear without any proof or even indication to justify the fear.

My description of the Yingluck administration as "undemocratic" is not a matter of 'twisting', just the plain ugly truth some here find difficult to digest. A government ordered around by a criminal fugitive, acting for said criminal fugitive and forgetting other the 67++ million other Thai, I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily hands a criminal fugitive a brand new passport while the Nation is distracted by floodwaters AND then even first lying about it I cannot call democratic. A government which sneakily modifies an amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill AND even extends it's coverage period to include the criminal fugitives last two years in/out of office AND the first two years of Yingluck (mal)administration I cannot call democratic.

The Yingluck administration's use of an Emergency Decree while trying to get an election under way also shows a disregard for democracy. The operation of the CAPO against anti-government protesters shows a disregard of democracy. The condemnation whenever a court made a ruling the government didn't like shows a contempt for democracy and laws. The 700++ billion lost in the RPPS without a single page accounting for the loss shows a comtempt of laws and democracy.

The International Community should have been more concerned when the Yingluck administration was at it. Now the concern seems more a general dislike of coups rather than a dislike of what the NCPO is working on at this moment.

Rube, as usual very informative to most posters but your aiming at a minute section that keep replying for you to reply. Let it dry up mate as you can see it's not registering, these few rely on you to keep active.

Use your expertise on other matters my friend.

We all have at sometime pointed out your points, but as you see it's like peeing into head wind. It is now over for the Yingluck tribe we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them. What's been done is done now. Shins-are old hat, but we will never forget. Keep up the brill stuff.

"we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them."

The thread on public inputs to reform http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731829-public-opinion-to-be-considered-in-reform-thailand/?hl=%2Breform received very little attention from you and others, and nothing specific. I think rubl posted something about leaving reforms up to the Thai people, meaning the military. It seems some people have unlimited faith in the ability and good will of the military.

Whatever the military has in mind, whoever it uses to gather intelligence to put new reforms on paper to be scrutinized --time has to be taken to make sure no repeats of previous years loopholes can be repeated.

Now the Thai population has an idea who is good and who is not good they are now more aware of the situation. Thai people will be better informed from this day to (I hope) not make the same election mistakes. It was quite clear that PTP got elected and messed the job up completely so I am pleased Thais are now much more aware for next time.

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

Rube, as usual very informative to most posters but your aiming at a minute section that keep replying for you to reply. Let it dry up mate as you can see it's not registering, these few rely on you to keep active.

Use your expertise on other matters my friend.

We all have at sometime pointed out your points, but as you see it's like peeing into head wind. It is now over for the Yingluck tribe we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them. What's been done is done now. Shins-are old hat, but we will never forget. Keep up the brill stuff.

"we need to concentrate on the new reforms and monitor them."

The thread on public inputs to reform http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731829-public-opinion-to-be-considered-in-reform-thailand/?hl=%2Breform received very little attention from you and others, and nothing specific. I think rubl posted something about leaving reforms up to the Thai people, meaning the military. It seems some people have unlimited faith in the ability and good will of the military.

Whatever the military has in mind, whoever it uses to gather intelligence to put new reforms on paper to be scrutinized --time has to be taken to make sure no repeats of previous years loopholes can be repeated.

Now the Thai population has an idea who is good and who is not good they are now more aware of the situation. Thai people will be better informed from this day to (I hope) not make the same election mistakes. It was quite clear that PTP got elected and messed the job up completely so I am pleased Thais are now much more aware for next time.

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

sjaak327 · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

brewsterbudgen · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

Who cares if they have zero mandate. It is an effective military intervention mending a ravaged Thailand -that's all.

I am trying to say FORGET PTP to these pro PTP posters that has gone, if you have an argument don't do it now, WAIT the same as Yingluck asked Thai people,, she said give her time---yes 3 years and what ???? these posters cannot answer that one. because they did S#D all.

Your wrong The army IS running a democratic government, just because they were not voted in by the electorate , does not mean that they are wrong, on the contrary they are achieving so much in a short time. Time now is Thailands friend, they will tolerate this as now for the first time for years they see a horizon.

Sorry to disappoint you, to sum up PTP a democratically elected government were not running a democratic government.

The army being not democratically elected have way out performed in 1 month PTP in 3 years --there's your democracy for you Thai style.

This SORT OF coup is not what the dictionary describes it.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

brewsterbudgen · June 17, 2014

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

bigbamboo · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

And yet it seems to be working and the people actually like it.

Still, I suppose you can have too much of a good thing.

ginjag · June 17, 2014

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Naïve maybe but never mind in the Thai situation this any day than a diabolical Undemocratic government illegally run in my eyes from overseas.

Cameron would have been out on his heels within 6 months had he done what the PTP had done and any other demo country.

Normally I would be with your thinking 100% of the time NOW Thailand has been rescued it does NOT matter who had to do it, but the army was the only body that could do a clean up---remember elections do NOT clean up this sort of DUNG.

metisdead · June 17, 2014

How many times do these reminders need to be posted:

URGENT NOTICE TO MEMBERS

Zero tolerance for disruptive behaviour during Martial Law.

Click on those links, read them, and post accordingly.

rubl · June 17, 2014

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

The way the Yingluck administration tried to push through an election because they thought they might still be able to get enough votes to say "thank you, go home, we have a mandate again" and would surely have revived the blanket amnesty bill they had tried to push through before. The activity which let to all the anti-government protests.

Ms. Yingluck asking people to 'wait and go home', Pheu Thai MPs and members demanding, threatening courts, suing anyone against, the CAPO in full swing.

Election anyone? The wonder cure as some would have it. In a country where the government isn't democratic. It like asking people to 'trust me' and forcing a blingfold and right hand bound on the back to make sure there are 'fair elections' with the 'right' outcome.

So we'll get some reforms first. More news in a few months time. Of course some will continue complaining to not be in the know, but I'm sure the NCPO would inform them if they could clearly offer reasons and justification. Give it a try, I'd say.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

Yeah, strict censorship always leads to better informed people. Also, I'm sure Gen Prayuth will once again caution people to vote carefully, as he did in 2011.

Regarding how the PTP "messed up the job" and how aware the Thai people will be, I think the memory of how the PTP was ousted will greatly overshadow the memory of how they performed in office. As I've stated many times before, coups create martyrs and make opponents more influential, not less. It's one of the many problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

Sorry but until you get it in your head that what the PTP did in the 3 years was criminal to Thailand, there really is no room to debate anything.

To acknowledge the catastrophic harm that was done should be the norm.

You are way out in your thought when you think that they performed in office----They did nothing only cause Thailand to get to this situ through greed.

Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent.

What you think about military intervention is another thing. You now stand as one of the biggest brainwashed pro gov poster on TVF----the reason being your failure to recognize corrupt illegal , non democratic run government.

Because of your stagnant stance leave me out as you are a wind up merchant. Remember acknowledgement of bad is a good thing.

One thing is for sure, the current government isn't a democratic run government either (in fact they have ZERO mandate).

Nothing more needs to be said really. You seem to be a fight fire with fire type of person.

It isn't going to work, that much is absolutely certain.

Who cares if they have zero mandate. It is an effective military intervention mending a ravaged Thailand -that's all.

I am trying to say FORGET PTP to these pro PTP posters that has gone, if you have an argument don't do it now, WAIT the same as Yingluck asked Thai people,, she said give her time---yes 3 years and what ???? these posters cannot answer that one. because they did S#D all.

Your wrong The army IS running a democratic government, just because they were not voted in by the electorate , does not mean that they are wrong, on the contrary they are achieving so much in a short time. Time now is Thailands friend, they will tolerate this as now for the first time for years they see a horizon.

Sorry to disappoint you, to sum up PTP a democratically elected government were not running a democratic government.

The army being not democratically elected have way out performed in 1 month PTP in 3 years --there's your democracy for you Thai style.

This SORT OF coup is not what the dictionary describes it.

"Your statement re--how they were ousted will greatly overshadow how they performed is Bent."

I'll be happy to let history decide that one, I'm confident the coup will overshadow the PTP's performance in the next election.

"Your wrong The army IS running a democratic government, just because they were not voted in by the electorate..."

I'm sorry, you can't stretch the definition of democracy enough to justify that statement.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

heybruce · June 17, 2014

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

The way the Yingluck administration tried to push through an election because they thought they might still be able to get enough votes to say "thank you, go home, we have a mandate again" and would surely have revived the blanket amnesty bill they had tried to push through before. The activity which let to all the anti-government protests.

Ms. Yingluck asking people to 'wait and go home', Pheu Thai MPs and members demanding, threatening courts, suing anyone against, the CAPO in full swing.

Election anyone? The wonder cure as some would have it. In a country where the government isn't democratic. It like asking people to 'trust me' and forcing a blingfold and right hand bound on the back to make sure there are 'fair elections' with the 'right' outcome.

So we'll get some reforms first. More news in a few months time. Of course some will continue complaining to not be in the know, but I'm sure the NCPO would inform them if they could clearly offer reasons and justification. Give it a try, I'd say.

Not a well written post, but it's clear you didn't like the PTP's performance, you were afraid they would be re-elected, you're sure your judgment and the judgment of a minority of Thais is superior to the judgment of the majority, etc.

That's not how democracy works. And some of us have less confidence than you in reforms crafted by people with no mandate.

Emptyset · June 17, 2014

Whatever the military has in mind, whoever it uses to gather intelligence to put new reforms on paper to be scrutinized --time has to be taken to make sure no repeats of previous years loopholes can be repeated.

Now the Thai population has an idea who is good and who is not good they are now more aware of the situation. Thai people will be better informed from this day to (I hope) not make the same election mistakes. It was quite clear that PTP got elected and messed the job up completely so I am pleased Thais are now much more aware for next time.

I hope for their sake the Thai people are a little more skeptical than you are, ginjag. For you good = anyone who isn't associated with Thaksin or the red shirts, and they seem to get your unwavering, unquestioning support whatever they do. Some of these boys must be thinking they've hit the jack pot with folk like you around (no different to what some PTP MPs were thinking, granted, but that's exactly the point). Actually if red shirts had been a lot more skeptical and critical of their govt from the start, maybe PT wouldn't have been so complacent. It's fine to support something, but why does it require you completely disengage your critical faculties whilst you do so?

Anyway, you're right that "loopholes" will be closed. The "loophole" that people are able to freely elect a parliament of their choice will probably be one of those loopholes. There has been a sensible suggestion by a PT MP (and others) that the cabinet and PM ought to be directly elected and separate from parliament. Similar to the US system. However, proposals by yellow leaning academics like Chai-Anan suggest reducing the number of MPs to 76, functional constituencies (Hong Kong style) or allow an unelected PM (ala Suchinda). It's much more likely to be something toward the latter direction than the former. The former might help clean up politics, but it'd also allow the Thai people the free choice to re-elect a Thaksin backed govt if they wanted. And that's the last thing that the anti-Thaksin forces are going to allow now they've got this far.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Emptyset

Emptyset · June 17, 2014

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Yep, also people are rather shortsighted here. The same justifications have been continually made for coups in the past, and post-coup the same "problems" with the parliamentary system have always returned. Why should it be different this time? OK, maybe the system could be rigged so you get a half-democratic system like you had with Prem in the 80s, but what makes people so sure that would be accepted by most Thais? If you keep taking people's chance to exercise their own reason, you never allow them to grow up and learn from their mistakes. We've seen corrupt and poor governments throughout the history of the UK and US. What we didn't have is constant coups by a military and establishment that kept insisting people weren't ready for democracy.

rubl · June 17, 2014

You didn't like what they were doing. A lot of people didn't. At one time there was going to be an election so the people could elect a new government, but....

Thailand will probably eventually have elections again, but it remains to be seen under what kind of constitution.

The way the Yingluck administration tried to push through an election because they thought they might still be able to get enough votes to say "thank you, go home, we have a mandate again" and would surely have revived the blanket amnesty bill they had tried to push through before. The activity which let to all the anti-government protests.

Ms. Yingluck asking people to 'wait and go home', Pheu Thai MPs and members demanding, threatening courts, suing anyone against, the CAPO in full swing.

Election anyone? The wonder cure as some would have it. In a country where the government isn't democratic. It like asking people to 'trust me' and forcing a blingfold and right hand bound on the back to make sure there are 'fair elections' with the 'right' outcome.

So we'll get some reforms first. More news in a few months time. Of course some will continue complaining to not be in the know, but I'm sure the NCPO would inform them if they could clearly offer reasons and justification. Give it a try, I'd say.

Not a well written post, but it's clear you didn't like the PTP's performance, you were afraid they would be re-elected, you're sure your judgment and the judgment of a minority of Thais is superior to the judgment of the majority, etc.

That's not how democracy works. And some of us have less confidence than you in reforms crafted by people with no mandate.

Twerribly sorry, excuses and all that. I didn't mean to disappoint you with the literary quality of my post, but English is only second or third language for me.

Anyway, it should be clear that the 'internation alarm growing' has no relation at all with an undemocratic government which run the show for big brother only. That's not how democracies should work and a clear indication that Thailand didn't really go for the democracy part.

Some of us are still confident the NCPO will start the correct reforms, but it's too early to tell. Mind you, the reforms the Yingluck/Thaksin administration was dreaming of didn't have much to do with democracy. The NCPO doesn't have to consist of geniuses to be able to be better performing than the "we respected your vote till it was counted" Thaksin Pheu Thai lot.

Anyway, international alarm as far as foreign posters here are concerned. Lots of obfuscation as well, no real change since the coup, makes you wonder

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