US suspends one-third of military aid

[americaninbangkok]

I live in Las Cruces, NM, if I travel West or East I must pass through a Border Patrol check point and declare my nationality and allow them to look through my car if they so choose. Occasionally, there are night time stops here by the local police looking for drunk drivers, regardless all drivers are required to provide drivers license, auto registration and proof of auto insurance. If I catch a flight I have to empty my pockets and take my shoes off for semi-literate TSA employees who are rude and poorly trained. They follow the rules but wouldn't recognize a terrorist if he wore a sign.

How much stupid can you fit in one paragraph?!

The is no border patrol check east or west of Las Cruces. You're still in the US, and we do not have interstate border checks. If you go SOUTH, you'd have a border check at Ciudad Juarez, but that's because you're crossing an international border. Go ahead... tell me this is an idea unique to the Police States of America.

A drivers license? Proof of insurance? Again, please go ahead and name three countries (countries, not shitholes) that don't require basic documentation for their drivers.

Screening before you get on a flight? Seriously, what do you want? To just walk the <deleted> onto a plane without screening and realize the moron next to you wasn't screened either?

[YeaBiGgiEs]

GOOD! Now why don't you redirect those funds and AID your own f'n people first instead of flashing your all mighty dollar to 3rd world countries. GO AWAY USA!

[Publicus]

The US has, and will, support any government that emerges, has a semblance to democracy, and continues to be an ally. Why are so many people getting in such a fit over this. The US gives such a minuscule amount to Thailand compared with other recipients, that to infer the cutting of this small sum amounts to anything other than what the US is obliged to do by its own internal laws is stupid.

And you of course do recognize that my post you quote in part does not necessarily exclude the given reality, demonstrated over 200 years,,that you reference in your post.

Reciprocally, you would recognize the United States can and consistently does have and express a preference of a certain kind of government over alternatives that may be unattractive for any number of reasons, and that Washington often expresses its preference in plain language everyone can understand, i.e., a democratic government of some reasonable kind..

In other words, while Washington often must play the hand it is dealt in a given country, it very much prefers a democratic government

After all, the reality of international common law is that a military mutiny coup d'état is deemed illegal if it fails, legal if it succeeds. That's an entirely amoral and pragmatic legal technicality - some would say immoral and a gross inadequacy of jurisprudence..

Principles of international public law are not too relevant here, nor is there anyone to enforce them anywhere as we witness daily. And, I don't care to argue the morality of international jurisprudence as that serves no purpose outside of academia. Whether this current restart, in the form of a military coup and subsequent purging of Thaksin influences, reforming a constitution, and other reforms results in a relatively peaceful and bloodless return to a form of democracy is what is relevant.

Your views are well know on this forum, and are in many ways noble, but often ignore the realities of the situation in Thailand, and as I've noticed in China. This is not a slur on you. You are obviously an intelligent & educated person. However, your reverence for unworkable noble principles in these place in Asia does not serve a practical reality.

Being critiqued by an educated and intelligent person who speaks well as a livelihood can be refreshing in an environment of philistines. In such an environment each among us to include myself needs to be on guard we don't slide into any such camp.

Yes, the United Nations is what its enabling member states make it to be, whether consciously and deliberately or by default, but it strikes me as strange the UN can write and adopt international covenants on such matters as human rights, civil and political rights, heritage and cultural rights, and in respect of so many other matters, but can't or won't deal with the common scourge of the military mutiny coup d'état.

That the coup is common certainly is one reason for what I would call this failure. Yet while the UN, i.e., the international community, learned from Nazi Germany that it can and should, if only after careful consideration and mindful of restraints, interpose itself in the domestic affairs of the nation state, the coup remains oddly within the realm of national sovereignty.

So until the United States itself should inconceivably fall victim to the military mutiny coup d'état, it and other democratic nations like it have the moral high ground t to act in this respect as it deems appropriate from any number of predicates, to include its own constitution, and to make its public policy accordingly.

[Joe Mamma]

Surely you see the true intent of the war games and exercises here. To use Thailand as a strategical location for the impending war with China. The whole SEA area is going to be the future battlefields when the 2 powerhouses eventually clash.

If China wasn't commies and aggressive expansionists, do you think the USA would even be interested in Thailand???

[daveAustin]

Wow, 3 mil, pffft! Reason US is pissed is because of their investments in Toxin. Who cares either way? The American people likely couldn't give a frig, I just wish their gov would belt up.

[kerrysum]

Financing and staging coups is a longstanding US tradition... What hypocrites they are.

Nahhhhh tell me it isn't true......

[valvenus]

Thats just for openers.

hahaha.... it's even less than was cut after the 2006 coup.

[baboon]

Coup or not, why are they getting any aid from anyone in the first place? They have plenty of money of their own.

[simple1]

Coup or not, why are they getting any aid from anyone in the first place? They have plenty of money of their own.

Foreign aid is normally a tool in support of Foreign Policy objectives

[louse1953]

55555,gee that will work,delay the buying of a few guns.As soon as China steps into the void,ban will be overturned.

[louse1953]

Surely you see the true intent of the war games and exercises here. To use Thailand as a strategical location for the impending war with China. The whole SEA area is going to be the future battlefields when the 2 powerhouses eventually clash.

If China wasn't commies and aggressive expansionists, do you think the USA would even be interested in Thailand???

China's doing pretty good for "commo's.The US is a crumbling empire but dont know it yet.They will fight to stay relevant,but like all empires they will fall,just look to history.Unfortunally a lot of civilians will die in these long distance wars as shown by history also.I really dont think the US is ready for war with anybody,militarily maybe,mentally no.

[louse1953]

Wow, 3 mil, pffft! Reason US is pissed is because of their investments in Toxin. Who cares either way? The American people likely couldn't give a frig, I just wish their gov would belt up.

Half of them think Thailand is Taiwan and the other half wouldn't know either country,except for the few "Hangover 2" fans.

[IBoldnewguy]

I live in Las Cruces, NM, if I travel West or East I must pass through a Border Patrol check point and declare my nationality and allow them to look through my car if they so choose. Occasionally, there are night time stops here by the local police looking for drunk drivers, regardless all drivers are required to provide drivers license, auto registration and proof of auto insurance. If I catch a flight I have to empty my pockets and take my shoes off for semi-literate TSA employees who are rude and poorly trained. They follow the rules but wouldn't recognize a terrorist if he wore a sign.

How much stupid can you fit in one paragraph?!

The is no border patrol check east or west of Las Cruces. You're still in the US, and we do not have interstate border checks. If you go SOUTH, you'd have a border check at Ciudad Juarez, but that's because you're crossing an international border. Go ahead... tell me this is an idea unique to the Police States of America.

A drivers license? Proof of insurance? Again, please go ahead and name three countries (countries, not shitholes) that don't require basic documentation for their drivers.

Screening before you get on a flight? Seriously, what do you want? To just walk the <deleted> onto a plane without screening and realize the moron next to you wasn't screened either?

americaninbangkok: I would suggest you learn how to think and understand what is written before going off on a uninformed rant.

1. The link below lists the all US check points, look under NM, it verifies my statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints

Your comments simply reflect an ignorance of the area and a claim to knowledge you do not possess.

2. The issue is not a comparison of the US to other countries. Evidently you are unaware that a US citizen has a constitutional right against unreasonable searches.

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

3. I have no complaint against Airport security - however the US government sub-contracts these TSA duties out and there have been numerous exposes of the flaws within this system. I just prefer my security to be conducted by competent people; as is, we are just flipping a coin and hoping we win the toss of a safe arrival.

My comments were examples of US hypocrisy of dictating by monetary blackmail Thailand's business.

In closing I think the first line of your rant applies more to you than to me - if knowledge is knowing how much you don't know - then ignorance is the refusal to know you don't know. If you choose to reply - please be rational - do not insult me again - Best regards....

[Tony Clifton]

Thailand’s Defense budget in 2013 was 178,441,000,000 Baht. The US Defense funding cuts are only a political gesture. US has for years threatened to downgrade Thailand to Tier 3 status due to human rights abuses, that includes the military’s involvement, that again would be a political gesture with no meaningful financial measures.

Wasn't Thailand one of the countries where rendition was used after middle-eastern prisonners were shipped halfway around the globe by the U.S.?

[rotary]

This is great news for the US tax payer. This means less money the US has to borrow from China to give away.

[ikurauni]

The US always wants to be involved with the crisis outside of the US. Let Thai people resolve the issue the way they want to handle it. The US should rather take care their internal issues. Oh, I almost forgot that the US is the world police but there is no oil in Thailand.

[simple1]

Thailand’s Defense budget in 2013 was 178,441,000,000 Baht. The US Defense funding cuts are only a political gesture. US has for years threatened to downgrade Thailand to Tier 3 status due to human rights abuses, that includes the military’s involvement, that again would be a political gesture with no meaningful financial measures.

Wasn't Thailand one of the countries where rendition was used after middle-eastern prisonners were shipped halfway around the globe by the U.S.?

Yes

[transam]

The US always wants to be involved with the crisis outside of the US. Let Thai people resolve the issue the way they want to handle it. The US should rather take care their internal issues. Oh, I almost forgot that the US is the world police but there is no oil in Thailand.

There are air fields in LOS, l believe a few built by the USA.

[darondc]

a reply from the most corrupt and lined pocket politicians in the world. Take a note US on how the true voice of the people deals with a greedy and corrupt kangaroo government.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[siampolee]

Well we are frightened are we not ?

My advice to the U.S and the rest of the critics who seem to revere ( one is led to wonder why) the corrupt practices of the Shinwatra clan and its ilk is below.

Edited May 25, 2014 by siampolee

[Piichai]

So it's pretty clear where the United States stands in the current power play, wouldn't you say?

Considering the US cut aid by only $3M, it looks like the US quietly supports the current power play.

You're missing a hellova lot in this, historically between the two countries and presently.

It was a token gesture by Obama, and nothing more. The least he could have done considering the mounting pressure he's under.

Obama is telling Prayuth, "I gotta do something over here because I'm really in the weeds. So I gotta say I'm holding something back, but here's $7M; go have some fun. And, hey, now that Yingluck is free, could you send her over for another visit?"

[Piichai]

Thailands Defense budget in 2013 was 178,441,000,000 Baht. The US Defense funding cuts are only a political gesture. US has for years threatened to downgrade Thailand to Tier 3 status due to human rights abuses, that includes the militarys involvement, that again would be a political gesture with no meaningful financial measures.

Wasn't Thailand one of the countries where rendition was used after middle-eastern prisonners were shipped halfway around the globe by the U.S.?

Yeah. Been to Soi 3 lately? They came. They saw. They loved the place!

[YankeeVet]

Relax folks. Typical political posturing from the US state Dept play book. Nothing more. All a political show because they violated democratic ideals and process rules. The full amount of money we borrowed from China for the US to give to Thailand will be paid in full when things settle out. The US taxpayers will pay the interest on the debt in the meantime and many years after. No worries.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wabothai]

"oh shit, now we are in trouble" the army we built and supported commits a coup. what we do ? well we make a gesture and give them a few millions less, and say "you can't do this man ! "

[Publicus]

So it's pretty clear where the United States stands in the current power play, wouldn't you say?

Considering the US cut aid by only $3M, it looks like the US quietly supports the current power play.

You're missing a hellova lot in this, historically between the two countries and presently.

It was a token gesture by Obama, and nothing more. The least he could have done considering the mounting pressure he's under.

Obama is telling Prayuth, "I gotta do something over here because I'm really in the weeds. So I gotta say I'm holding something back, but here's $7M; go have some fun. And, hey, now that Yingluck is free, could you send her over for another visit?"

You've missed that the Pentagon is reviewing the status of the rest of the total amount, $10 million, so we well might expect more to be done. And you've missed much else, as the NYT article cited below makes clear:

You people fail to recognize that $10 million is not much to begin with and that the withdrawal of the money is a political gesture, which is what matters.

Militarist fahlang who advocate and support military dictatorship and military mutiny coups d'état are campaigning to try to pretend no one anywhere outside of Thailand is opposed to the coup or is seriously opposed to the coup, the United States especially.

The fact is there is serious global opposition to this coup because democracies everywhere know this coup is not a routine or interim seizure of state power. This coup is rounding up people of all kinds, detaining them, calling them a threat to peace and order, and has yet to make itself clear.

This coup is going to give Suthep and the ammart what they've been trying to get the past sic months. This coup is a radical coup that intends to install 21st century fascism in Thailand and to make Thailand the pioneer of 21st century fascism for many other countries.

Which makes this coup radical and pernicious against democracy in Thailand and against democracy everywhere..

US to Halt Military Exercises With Thai Forces as Junta Detentions Continue - New York Times

The Pentagon, responding to Thursday’s military coup, announced Saturday that it was halting a military exercise with Thai armed forces that was already underway and canceling the visit here of a top American admiral. The Obama administration, which suspended military aid to Thailand last week, called off other projects for police and military cooperation.

In Washington, officials said about 700 sailors and Marines were participating in the Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training exercise when it was cut short. The annual exercise, which started on Tuesday, was scheduled to run through May 28 as the first of nine bilateral exercises the Navy conducts with maritime forces in Southeast Asia.

The Pentagon also announced that it was canceling a visit to Thailand by Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr., the commander of the Navy’s Pacific Fleet. In addition, the Defense Department rescinded an invitation for a senior Thai commander to visit the military’s Pacific Command in Hawaii next month.

“As we have made clear, it is important that the Royal Thai armed forces end this coup and restore to the people of Thailand both the principles and the process of democratic rule, including a clear path forward to elections,” Rear Adm. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.

Demonstrators clashed with Thai forces in Bangkok on Saturday as they protested Thursday’s military

In addition, the State Department announced Saturday that it was canceling a firearms training program for the Royal Thai police that was to start here on Monday, as well as a trip next month by senior Royal Thai police officials to the United States to visit F.B.I. facilities and meet with American law enforcement officials.

The steps taken Saturday are the Obama administration’s latest rebukes to the Thai coup leaders. On Friday, the State Department said it had suspended $3.5 million in financing for military sales and military training, and was reviewing the rest of the $10.5 million in assistance it was providing Thailand.

Nearly 200 people have been summoned for detention by the Thai military.

“We again call on the military to release those detained for political reasons, end restrictions on the media, and move to restore civilian rule and democracy through elections,” Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said in a statement.

The department also issued a warning to American citizens to “reconsider any nonessential travel to Thailand.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/world/asia/us-to-halt-military-exercises-with-thai-forces-as-junta-detentions-continue.html?rref=world/asia&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Asia%20Pacific&pgtype=article

[rubl]

From publicus:

"The fact is there is serious global opposition to this coup because democracies everywhere know this coup is not a routine or interim seizure of state power."

Personally I doubt that 'democracies' everywhere have much idea about the coup or what it means for most people.

Furthermore the 'not routine', 'not interim' is pure speculation as at this moment there is no info on that. Mind you with no one agreeing on how the Thai democracy should look like and for who, it should surprise if this junta will need some time to force the society into a democratic shape which even 'democracies' would recognise as such.

Of course, half of the posters here will not believe that and the other half has no problem. Luckily TV members have no say in this.

[tullynagardy]

Considering the US cut aid by only $3M, it looks like the US quietly supports the current power play.

More like they are balancing between doing whats right and pushing the junta closer to China.

Thailands military hardware is almost all US made. The US could really piss on their chips if they wanted, but dont want an enemy so close to China.

Good to see you finally admit its a power play instead of a fight against corruption etc. Just a handful left here to figure out what this is all about.

[sabian]

Why would shortage of spare hurt Thailand, maybe it's all their overseas commitment .................oh there isn't any, I suggest the US need Thailand buying there stuff more than Thailand actually physically needs it. If not buy it somewhere else, it's not the best stuff around just the most available.

[valvenus]

Considering the US cut aid by only $3M, it looks like the US quietly supports the current power play.

You're missing a hellova lot in this, historically between the two countries and presently.

It was a token gesture by Obama, and nothing more. The least he could have done considering the mounting pressure he's under.

Obama is telling Prayuth, "I gotta do something over here because I'm really in the weeds. So I gotta say I'm holding something back, but here's $7M; go have some fun. And, hey, now that Yingluck is free, could you send her over for another visit?"

You've missed that the Pentagon is reviewing the status of the rest of the total amount, $10 million, so we well might expect more to be done. And you've missed much else, as the NYT article cited below makes clear:

Even if they take the entire $10 mil, it's still less than was withheld after the 2006 coup. It's a trifling amount to both parties.

As for NYT's article, what is clear is that they are all relatively miniscule and meaningless gestures.

CINCPAC Admiral port visits often shift about for no other reason than an head cold.

CARAT exercises are tiny compared to any number of other Pacific theater operations, of which there are many.

What else? Oh yeah, some Thai Admiral has his Pearl Harbor tour cancelled. Big whoop.

Following that military malarkey of trivialities, some Thai cops won't be visiting the FBI target range. Heavens no! Such strong signals.

It's as Piichai and others have pointed out. All these "serious consequences" are a joke compared to what the USA could be doing to show their condemnation of the coup. The government is legally required to impose sanctions, but the reality is that the measures could hardly be softer. They are superfluous and trivial and occur at all only because they have to take some measure.

[Publicus]

It was a token gesture by Obama, and nothing more. The least he could have done considering the mounting pressure he's under.

Obama is telling Prayuth, "I gotta do something over here because I'm really in the weeds. So I gotta say I'm holding something back, but here's $7M; go have some fun. And, hey, now that Yingluck is free, could you send her over for another visit?"

You've missed that the Pentagon is reviewing the status of the rest of the total amount, $10 million, so we well might expect more to be done. And you've missed much else, as the NYT article cited below makes clear:

Even if they take the entire $10 mil, it's still less than was withheld after the 2006 coup. It's a trifling amount to both parties.

As for NYT's article, what is clear is that they are all relatively miniscule and meaningless gestures.

CINCPAC Admiral port visits often shift about for no other reason than an head cold.

CARAT exercises are tiny compared to any number of other Pacific theater operations, of which there are many.

What else? Oh yeah, some Thai Admiral has his Pearl Harbor tour cancelled. Big whoop.

Following that military malarkey of trivialities, some Thai cops won't be visiting the FBI target range. Heavens no! Such strong signals.

It's as Piichai and others have pointed out. All these "serious consequences" are a joke compared to what the USA could be doing to show their condemnation of the coup. The government is legally required to impose sanctions, but the reality is that the measures could hardly be softer. They are superfluous and trivial and occur at all only because they have to take some measure.

So that pretty much leaves the SOP of bombing 'em back to the Stone Age.

I suppose Washington could take the drastic step of recalling the ambassador but then that would cause the late PDRC and their types here to party on through several curfews, so that's not a good option.

Ah, the CIA and the reds.....now there's a thought.