US envoy Kenney criticised

[Baerboxer]

What the US and her rep's do is their business, as for me I think the Australian gov should STOP 100% of support and impose trade sanctions for a number of reasons, including undemocratic behavior and human trafficking censorship, the list go's on The problem is that The Dem's and other groups simply will not play by the democratic rules, or respect the umpires decision (the voters) and if you won't follow the rules and respect the umpires call then don't play the game...

Love the sports analogy - coming from an Aussie! The country so famous for playing games in accordance with the rules and accepting "umpires" decisions.

The complete lack of respect for the rules of the game and the regulations enforcement officials would have brought the former PTP regime many red cards indeed.

[valvenus]

michael yon is a joke, sneered at by most of the journalistic community who cover the Thai beat largely due to his tried and true M.O of "publishing" a rant against the Red Shirts or Defending the Yellow Shirts on his FB or blogsite and then quickly following it up with messages like "I can't keep what I'm doing without the support of my followers! Please Donate to my paypal for the next dispatch from the field! or Buy my book!".

It works well, he has a rabid dem/yellow shirt THAI fanbase on his facebook page.

Well that pretty much explains it...... Phew what a bunch of drama.....

So when does the next soap opera begin??????

He sounds like a "yellow" Nick Nostitz

[Baerboxer]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its own self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Stop pretending. Yingluck broke the rules in transferring a civil servant so in a series of moves a member of her family could be moved into a senior position. She never said there was a reason of "hostility". You added that for convenience.

Her transfer decision was reversed after 2 court appeals by Yingluck. She was removed because of the blatant nepotism and self benefit involved.

Bit like Thaksin with his concealed assets, pastry boxes and tax evasion - all honest mistakes. The only honest mistake the Shins made was getting caught.

But then people like you believe their pathetic excuses.

Transferring certain people now is necessary - as they should and possibly will face investigations for some of their recent acts. This is only fair to them.

[valvenus]

So for all those who have a go about nick Nostitz and moan that falangs should stay our of it, this man is a perfect example on.the other side.

He is as yellow as Amsterdam is red. His articles verge on the surreal.

If he's like Nostitz AND Amsterdam, is it possible to bar all three from Thailand as an equal trade-off?

[chickenslegs]

OK, Semantics and/or technicalities.

Yes, the war was publicly declared by Pbun.

No, the Ambassadors to the UK and USA DID NOT deliver the declaration of war.

Duplicitous, isn't it?

Sorry that I cannot take your word for it when one of my ancestor did spend time in Kanchanaburi and nearly died building the railroad to Death built on Thai soil. His accounts first hand are an invaluable source of knowledge I have.

Next Thai apologist!

I'm sorry about your ancestor, I truly am. I have empathy since three of my ancestors didn't "nearly" die in that war, if you catch my drift, and I have no access to their accounts apart from far too few of those "don't worry about me" letters, which still distress me too often, I suppose.

I don't understand your personal attack at all, or the "apologist" statement, either one. It's not semantical that Thailand declared war on the UK (yes it did!) and did not declare war on the US, it's an important development of that terrible time. If you don't believe me it's an interesting story, don't, and I will simply have to try to console myself.

.

Yes, semantics. War was declared. The ambassador (allegedly) refused to deliver the message. See below.

"Under pressure from Japan, the Phibun regime declared war on Britain and the United States in January 1942, but the Thai ambassador in Washington, Seni Pramoj, refused to deliver the declaration to the United States government. Accordingly, the United States refrained from declaring war on Thailand."

Source: U.S. Library of Congress

http://countrystudies.us/thailand/21.htm

[devaram]

Every leader in every real democracy has a right to transfer officials and surround themselves with people they trust. Its very normal.

There is no court in America that has the power to fire Obama for dumping bush era officials and hiring his own friends. Thats what leaders do everywhere.

Its astonishing to me that people who come from hard earned and usually violently won democracies will defend anti democratic movements in Thailand.

It shows how far you have detached from reality.

Edited May 25, 2014 by devaram

[northernjohn]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

While I am neither for or against the actions of the ambassador since none of us can separate what she has actually said or done from the fabrications used to denigrate her and none of us know what she is doing or saying on her own initiative or based on directions she is receiving ...

... but this has got to be one of the most pompous, meaningless statements I've heard since the last presidential campaign:

"...many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them."

Please enumerate these "principles" that you hold so dear and which so many of us have abandoned willy-nilly. We could use a good laugh. If anything, America was founded with respect for diversity of opinion and not the imposition of some principles from on-high ... speaking of military dictatorships.

Like you, I do not want to wade into what the ambassador has or hasn't said or done or any of that. However, as an American who has spent six years living in Europe and several more living in Asia, it seems to be a habit of many Americans who find themselves overseas to try to fit in by adopting an anti-American attitude.

I think michaelscottfan may have worded it a little too star spangled bannery for my own beliefs but I loathe hearing Americans blindly repeating Euro-criticisms of their fellow Americans because they don't have the guts to stick up for themselves (or they're so weak-spined they crave acceptance) as much as I loathe idiots chanting U-S-A, U-S-A.

Now, with a situation like what has happened in Thailand, I'm divided. On one hand, I've been saying for many years that Thailand was on a coarse for civil war or disappearing into a failed state status. So, I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory.

On the other hand, it's troubling that it's taken a circumvention of democracy to make it happen and there's no real guarantee the military is actually going to improve anything. Anybody who is surprised that any western democracy is going to publicly decry the circumvention of democracy is just a little more than naive. It's like saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. It's a standard response and the threat of harming trade relations is supposed to act as an incentive to not hold onto power for any longer than is necessary to fix the problem. If the world simply shrugged, what incentive does the military ever have to turn power back over to the people (other than internal pressures they can't control via a few mass executions)?

Furthermore, it's pretty obvious that the US (as well as most of the world) has had no problem working with either Thaksin or the Democrats so nobody is picking sides in this. In fact, I find the Thai arguments against the US right now as silly as I found Thaksin's infamous "The UN is not our father" rhetoric. As a nation heavily dependent on exports, US or UN sanctions would set Thailand back 20 years. Saying it is none of anyone's business and that we should shut up is simply nationalistic masterbation. And Thais who go looney on Facebook or Twitter defending this ignorant view of how their own economy, or even how the rest of the world, works are living in propaganda filled la-la land.

I enjoyed you r open minded approach to the situation.

I really7 liked

"Now, with a situation like what has happened in Thailand, I'm divided. On one hand, I've been saying for many years that Thailand was on a coarse for civil war or disappearing into a failed state status. So, I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory.

On the other hand, it's troubling that it's taken a circumvention of democracy to make it happen and there's no real guarantee the military is actually going to improve anything."

Particularly

"I'm somewhat pleased to see the actions of the military. If they are doing what I think they're doing, this reset could be the best thing that has every happened to Thailand in recent memory."

Yes it is not a sure fire thing but I get the feeling from his no nonsense approach that it will be a great thing. He put the combatants in a room by them selves after giving them a day to think it out and they did nothing so he just put an end to it right now no excuse no time. They were told what to do and given time. He had to do it himself.

I also liked the way he handled the reporters when they tried to treat him like a politician he just put them in their place. I feel deep in me that when the time is ready the man will arrive and when the man is ready the time will arrive. That is what has happened here today.

Not Democracy but the best government Thailand can have at this time in history. I firmly believe that when he has straighten out things he will call an election and not many of the present day politicians will be able to run for office. If in office they try to revert to the old ways they will be swiftly removed from office. None of this moving to a useless post crap . Out on their ear or if need be in jail.

I see some immediate hard ships but some long term gains.

Hopefully I am rite in my decision. I just think of what we had and it is easy to see the possibilities in the man. It couldn't get much worse with people committing suicide over the failed promises and no offer of help to them.

[timc1988]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

America has abandoned its own founding principles quite some time ago. Domestic politics became all about image and doing one's best to destroy that of the other party. It's a superficial practically two party system where ideals are replaced by utter propaganda. Your mass media are amongst the most manipulative in the world where nowadays even comedy shows are used to wrap political messages. Corporations are running your country now, not your politicians. And let's not even begin about American foreign policy and its effects and the resentment it's creating.

The Thai are very clear: don't mess with their internal affairs for whatever reason. And don't project your own American dogma on a country with a completely different culture. Especially Americans have a few lessons to learn about keeping an open mind, not in the least toward their own society.

And no I'm not American. I come from the country with the second highest freedom of press in the world. You can look up which one that is.

I am an American and totally agree with post.

[h90]

Short version: Thaksin is our New World Order buddy.....

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/052414_statements_2.html

The following is attributable to U.S. Department of State Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf: May 24, 2014

We are increasingly concerned about actions the military has taken, just a few days after it staged a coup. It has dissolved the Senate, detained a number of people, called in some academics and journalists, and continued to restrict the press. We again call on the military to release those detained for political reasons, end restrictions on the media, and move to restore civilian rule and democracy through elections.

[folium]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its own self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well I hope you are right, but after 12 resets (aka coups) and 9 attempted resets it would appear that military intervention hasn't yet managed to resolve the issues and aid LOS down the democratic pathway since the military assumed power in 1932.

Is the military equipped and capable of achieving this role?

Around the world military interventions and military dictatorships rarely fulfill their promise of restoring a country's political, social and economic fortunes.

Perhaps the situation in LOS was so dire that the military intervention was the least bad option....

That might be the case, but here the military (at least the hierarchy) is hardly neutral in its political stance and having had a preeminent position since 1932 has established significant vested interests both politically and commercially. Hence most of the "resets" need to be seen at least in part as in defence of these interests rather than purely being for the good of every Thai citizen.

This time round, if the speculation is only partially correct, could mark the most significant reset since 1932 and Prayuth met yet earn the same nickname as England's 16th Earl of Warwick.....It would also dramatically underline the role of the military in the body politic of this country.

[h90]

Every leader in every real democracy has a right to transfer officials and surround themselves with people they trust. Its very normal.

There is no court in America that has the power to fire Obama for dumping bush era officials and hiring his own friends. Thats what leaders do everywhere.

Its astonishing to me that people who come from hard earned and usually violently won democracies will defend anti democratic movements in Thailand.

It shows how far you have detached from reality.

No in Austria and I guess in most European countries politicians can not.

Austria had to reinstall the army boss not long ago, after the Defense Minister kicked him out. They didn't fire the Defense Minister. But he installed the army generals deputy instead and not his relative so the situation was different.

[h90]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its own self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well I hope you are right, but after 12 resets (aka coups) and 9 attempted resets it would appear that military intervention hasn't yet managed to resolve the issues and aid LOS down the democratic pathway since the military assumed power in 1932.

Is the military equipped and capable of achieving this role?

Around the world military interventions and military dictatorships rarely fulfill their promise of restoring a country's political, social and economic fortunes.

Perhaps the situation in LOS was so dire that the military intervention was the least bad option....

That might be the case, but here the military (at least the hierarchy) is hardly neutral in its political stance and having had a preeminent position since 1932 has established significant vested interests both politically and commercially. Hence most of the "resets" need to be seen at least in part as in defence of these interests rather than purely being for the good of every Thai citizen.

This time round, if the speculation is only partially correct, could mark the most significant reset since 1932 and Prayuth met yet earn the same nickname as England's 16th Earl of Warwick.....It would also dramatically underline the role of the military in the body politic of this country.

But after every coup there was a time with less corruption for a while.

And look at the other countries in SEA: Thailand did with his many coups way better than any other (beside Malaysia which is also doing well)

[Thai at Heart]

michael yon is a joke, sneered at by most of the journalistic community who cover the Thai beat largely due to his tried and true M.O of "publishing" a rant against the Red Shirts or Defending the Yellow Shirts on his FB or blogsite and then quickly following it up with messages like "I can't keep what I'm doing without the support of my followers! Please Donate to my paypal for the next dispatch from the field! or Buy my book!".

It works well, he has a rabid dem/yellow shirt THAI fanbase on his facebook page.

Well that pretty much explains it...... Phew what a bunch of drama.....

So when does the next soap opera begin??????

He sounds like a "yellow" Nick Nostitz

I think that is a fair and probably very generous description.

[Thai at Heart]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

America has abandoned its own founding principles quite some time ago. Domestic politics became all about image and doing one's best to destroy that of the other party. It's a superficial practically two party system where ideals are replaced by utter propaganda. Your mass media are amongst the most manipulative in the world where nowadays even comedy shows are used to wrap political messages. Corporations are running your country now, not your politicians. And let's not even begin about American foreign policy and its effects and the resentment it's creating.

The Thai are very clear: don't mess with their internal affairs for whatever reason. And don't project your own American dogma on a country with a completely different culture. Especially Americans have a few lessons to learn about keeping an open mind, not in the least toward their own society.

And no I'm not American. I come from the country with the second highest freedom of press in the world. You can look up which one that is.

I am an American and totally agree with post.

All good, and I respect your ability to express your opinion as much as that of the American government. As such, you can't really wish that the USA govt would say nothing because its not their problem.

They are an ally of Thailand and as such has the right under freedom of speech to say what they like. I am still waiting for the Thais to quantify exactly what makes them so.unique that no one can understand the mess they are in.

Believe it or not, falangs are quite smart and there isn't much that goes on today that hasn't happened somewhere. Believe it or not, most falangs have more access to more opinion than most Thais.

We understand more than well enough what is gojng on here and banning the media isn't going to stop discussion and debate.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[folium]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Whats wrong with you? You more than anybody can see the Armies actions were not done to end democracy. It was done to end the political hatred and corruption that had taken hold in the 2 major parties and to quell a blood bath. YOU know darn well if political parties started to defy laws and entice terrorism in the US that they would have an Army of feds with shoot to kill orders be they pro or anti Gov. The US is not above what is happening here. They are just more devious in how they resolve it. Thailand needed this reset or would you prefer a civil war like the US had. Thai democracy is still young and learning how it works. But any idiot can see it was NOT working and the parties had twisted everything to benefit themselves.

I think as long as the Army is making progress to end the madness of Thak and Suthep and that they do all they can to restor democracy then they are doing a good job and should not be condemned. They are trying to save the country from its own self destruction which was getting closer and closer every day.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well I hope you are right, but after 12 resets (aka coups) and 9 attempted resets it would appear that military intervention hasn't yet managed to resolve the issues and aid LOS down the democratic pathway since the military assumed power in 1932.

Is the military equipped and capable of achieving this role?

Around the world military interventions and military dictatorships rarely fulfill their promise of restoring a country's political, social and economic fortunes.

Perhaps the situation in LOS was so dire that the military intervention was the least bad option....

That might be the case, but here the military (at least the hierarchy) is hardly neutral in its political stance and having had a preeminent position since 1932 has established significant vested interests both politically and commercially. Hence most of the "resets" need to be seen at least in part as in defence of these interests rather than purely being for the good of every Thai citizen.

This time round, if the speculation is only partially correct, could mark the most significant reset since 1932 and Prayuth met yet earn the same nickname as England's 16th Earl of Warwick.....It would also dramatically underline the role of the military in the body politic of this country.

But after every coup there was a time with less corruption for a while.

And look at the other countries in SEA: Thailand did with his many coups way better than any other (beside Malaysia which is also doing well)

Perhaps that has more to do with the fact that Thailand and Malaysia were the only 2 significant SEAsian "dominoes" that did not fall to communism....or to outright military dictatorship as with Burma and Indonesia.

Bottom line military interventions are not good for countries and not good for a professional, apolitical military..and I speak as an ex-professional soldier, so can hardly be described as anti-military!

[AgentSmith]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

America has abandoned its own founding principles quite some time ago. Domestic politics became all about image and doing one's best to destroy that of the other party. It's a superficial practically two party system where ideals are replaced by utter propaganda. Your mass media are amongst the most manipulative in the world where nowadays even comedy shows are used to wrap political messages. Corporations are running your country now, not your politicians. And let's not even begin about American foreign policy and its effects and the resentment it's creating.

The Thai are very clear: don't mess with their internal affairs for whatever reason. And don't project your own American dogma on a country with a completely different culture. Especially Americans have a few lessons to learn about keeping an open mind, not in the least toward their own society.

And no I'm not American. I come from the country with the second highest freedom of press in the world. You can look up which one that is.

I am an American and totally agree with post.

All good, and I respect your ability to express your opinion as much as that of the American government. As such, you can't really wish that the USA govt would say nothing because its not their problem.

They are an ally of Thailand and as such has the right under freedom of speech to say what they like. I am still waiting for the Thais to quantify exactly what makes them so.unique that no one can understand the mess they are in.

Believe it or not, falangs are quite smart and there isn't much that goes on today that hasn't happened somewhere. Believe it or not, most falangs have more access to more opinion than most Thais.

We understand more than well enough what is gojng on here and banning the media isn't going to stop discussion and debate.

Nobody questions the freedom of speech, although human rights are not necessarily the same as a country's rights. It's about allowing a country the time and space to sort things out the way they want. Certain countries have the tendency to abuse times of chaos to steer things to their own advantage. They help certain people or parties into power if the new government allows for greater control over the region, economically and militarily. Of course everything under the cover of democracy. That's wrong and that is what people such as myself are standing up against now. And I believe it's fair to say that the USA has a pretty bad track record when it comes to dirty games in foreign lands. There's a reason why the Thai are asking the UN and especially the USA to stay out of their business. It's to not further complicate an already fragile situation and they have my full support on that. For the rest time will tell.

[digibum]

Yes it is not a sure fire thing but I get the feeling from his no nonsense approach that it will be a great thing. He put the combatants in a room by them selves after giving them a day to think it out and they did nothing so he just put an end to it right now no excuse no time. They were told what to do and given time. He had to do it himself.

I also liked the way he handled the reporters when they tried to treat him like a politician he just put them in their place. I feel deep in me that when the time is ready the man will arrive and when the man is ready the time will arrive. That is what has happened here today.

Not Democracy but the best government Thailand can have at this time in history. I firmly believe that when he has straighten out things he will call an election and not many of the present day politicians will be able to run for office. If in office they try to revert to the old ways they will be swiftly removed from office. None of this moving to a useless post crap . Out on their ear or if need be in jail.

I see some immediate hard ships but some long term gains.

Hopefully I am rite in my decision. I just think of what we had and it is easy to see the possibilities in the man. It couldn't get much worse with people committing suicide over the failed promises and no offer of help to them.

I guess I should have clarified on what I mean by "what I think he's doing"

While I would have liked to have seen this situation worked out in a democratic manner, the cold hard truth is that without some sort of intervention on this level, Thailand is heading for major, major bloodshed.

I don't pick allegiances with red or yellow. This prediction of bloodshed is just a logical conclusion if one accepts all of the facts. The reds are never going to allow the yellows to rule. The yellows are never going to allow the reds to rule. Even if bloodshed is avoided, the best case scenario is Thailand being thrown into complete deadlock, which, eventually, would result in mass poverty which may or may not be better than bloodshed depending on which side of the rice bowl you're sitting on.

The yellows need to realize they can't stop the change happening in Thailand. We're in a global economy now. You can't censor everything on the internet. People are eventually going to find out what a crappy deal they're getting and demand better. And history has shown that when oppressed people rise up, heads roll.

The reds need to realize that the yellows still hold enough power that if the only option for them is to fight to the death, they'll fight to the death (or flee with huge amounts of the country's wealth). There also needs to be a limit on the amount of populist crap the reds can promise to get elected since someone eventually has to pay for it without bankrupting the country.

The hot-heads on each side need to cool down. Both are leading the country towards a lot of unnecessary violence.

If the general is simply sitting the two sides down and treating them like children until they can collectively come up with a plan that works for both sides, I'm all for that. The coup will have been worth it. It will have saved countless lives and Thais can come together and quit fighting each other.

That doesn't mean everybody has to kiss and be best friends. It just means that the back and forth street protests stop. Reds and yellows should be mutually accountable for improving the lives of Thai people. If all they can come up with is a way for them to gain power, keep them detained until they come up with an acceptable plan.

The bottom line is that a minority cannot control a majority and a majority cannot redistribute the wealth of a minority. Both sides need to wake up and realize that the Thai people are the ones paying the price for all of this silliness.

On the other hand, if this is merely the yellows trying to rig the constitution to make sure the reds can't get back in power, I'm 100% against this coup.

It seems like a lot of people like pointing out how bad Thaksin is/was but let's not pretend your average Thai, you know, the 80% who barely make a livable wage, are any better off in the yellow utopia of having a nation of cheap labor who they can exploit to sell cheap products to western countries. As much as a purchased election is not democracy, nor is a relatively small number of people ignoring the needs of the majority of the country because they're deprived of an alternative.

[nitehawk56]

I would like to hear what the US Ambassador has to say about this: He calls her ignorant because she does not allow any of her staff to attend protest being held, that's SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) , don't get involved in other countries issues, don't become part of the problem, and don't pick sides.

[digibum]

Thats one way of seeing it. The other way would be simply follow the law and give support to the civilian government even if you dont agree with their political stance because they were chosen by the people to run the country. Those anti-gov protests would have been considered illegal in any normal democracy why were they allowed?

Why were the elections not given the security needed by the same army that now shuts down the entire country?

Why was Yingluck dismissed for transferring a hostile official but now the very forces that judged her are dismissing every official in the government and transferring many others.

This is not an experiment in democracy it is a huge step backwards and should be condemned.

The violence has been suppressed for the time being but later it will return with a vengeance.

How long can you stop a volcano?

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

[wandasloan]

Actually, with the open vote buying, they would not have been legitimate elections in any other country. Literally, the newspaper posts the going rate for votes.

You lose all credibility calling what Thailand has/had a democracy. It was a democracy in name only.

The reality is that it's one set of rich guys fighting against another set of rich guys but one of the groups of rich guys promises to steal the other rich guys' money and give it to the voters (after taking a good cut to enrich themselves in the transfer).

This is the reason why it's a power struggle. It has nothing to do with democracy. It's all about power. The power of the reds is to redistribute wealth to the poor and the power of the yellows is the ability to stage a coup whenever they feel threatened.

I'm not following your alleged connection. In what democracy is it NOT about the power? You think in ancient Athens it wasn't about the power, and hasn't been about the power every day of every year since then? I don't care what system a country runs under, of course it's about the power. That certainly includes democracy.

I would like to hear what the US Ambassador has to say about this: He calls her ignorant because she does not allow any of her staff to attend protest being held, that's SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) , don't get involved in other countries issues, don't become part of the problem, and don't pick sides.

I definitely would not like to hear her do that. In case anyone actually asks her opinion, the correct response is "Who?" And then, "I've never even heard of him."

I thought that the Wikileaks dump established once and for all that the US State Department knows very well and professionally what is going on in every country it works in and many of those it doesn't. She has nothing to answer, nothing to explain and I hope that's what she continues to do.

You're right, though, in what you say about HOW the US government works, I only disagree with you about how the ambassador should proceed. It certainly does not send overt embassy officers to prowl through political demonstrations, which would yield almost no information and always risk igniting some anti-US nonsense. It does (and again, the Wikileaks material detailed this so very, very well) talk to, interview, schmooze with and generally just discuss with every person with a dog in the political fight to learn the issues from every possible angle. It *informs* Washington of what is happening, and the Secretary of State or the President decide how to respond.

The embassy/ambassador doesn't make policy. They usually don't even recommend policy. And under no circumstances should this or any ambassador answer some one-off reporter's criticism when he won't even be honest enough to disclose why he's making the criticism in the first place.

.

Edited May 25, 2014 by wandasloan

[Tywais]

A post bringing the royal family into a political discussion has been removed. Another reminder to members to stay away from that area or face suspensions.

[Publicus]

In the US diplomat positions are given as 'freebies' to people who supported the administration and are frankly not qualified to do anything else. They are told not to make press releaases without permission and sent on their way, like bathtub ducks. There are lots of these 'posts' in America. During Hurricane Katrina and the Bush the Lesser administration, a Mr. Brown was head of FEMA. The only qualification Mr. Brown has was that he had....run horse shows.

No kidding.

Amb Kenney is a career foreign service officer.

The U.S. ambassador to Thailand is always a career foreign service officer.

Amb Kenney is a foreign service corps career professional whose husband is an assistant Secretary of State and who himself has been ambassador to Chile, Venezuela, Columbia.

Amb Kenney knows what she's doing and what she needs to do or not do. She's been an ambassador previously, to the U.S. security treaty ally the Philippines and also to Equador.

Her typical TVF critic is the person who sees only the appearance of things and hasn't any clue of their substance or significance. Which is certainly not a news bulletin to me.

[captspectre]

Just a quick addition, I didn't notice that the source was Michael Yon. LOL

Just so Thais here understand, no one in our country respects him. There's a reason why he moved to Thailand to scam the protestors out of money.

you sir are an idiot! Michael yon is a free lance correspondent. he has been reporting on the sick ass wars in the mis east for years! he is not living in thailand, just visiting, and either prove he has scammed the protesters or shut up and get out of town! and what is "our" coiuntry? certainly not the U.S. I suspect that you are a disgruintled brit. as an American I do respect him and his writing about the wars. read his dispatches!

[nithisa78]

"There is a monstrous disconnect between current US government policy towards Thailand and reality.

[Publicus]

You posted above that

Just a quick addition, I didn't notice that the source was Michael Yon. LOL

Just so Thais here understand, no one in our country respects him. There's a reason why he moved to Thailand to scam the protestors out of money.

you sir are an idiot! Michael yon is a free lance correspondent. he has been reporting on the sick ass wars in the mis east for years! he is not living in thailand, just visiting, and either prove he has scammed the protesters or shut up and get out of town! and what is "our" coiuntry? certainly not the U.S. I suspect that you are a disgruintled brit. as an American I do respect him and his writing about the wars. read his dispatches!

If you call people you disagree with an "idiot" I'd hate to see what you'd have to say about the proliferation of trolls around here.

I read Yon several months ago out of curiosity and immediately dismissed him as a BS propagandist similar to those that post prolifically to TVF.

"There is a monstrous disconnect between current US government policy towards Thailand and reality.

We got you the first time dude

You might have your hands full trying to explain your extremist statement. Since you know much much more than the US Embassy or the State Department know, why don't you have a go at it?

Give 'em both barrels I say!

Edited for technical reasons.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Publicus

[Tomtomtom69]

"US Ambassador Kristie Kenney: An American in Thailand sent this to me.

Sent what?

… [Thailand] have been our natural allies for decades since WWII and earlier.

Forgetting the small fact of Thailand declaring war on the US in 1942.

Right now, most Thai people are angry at us.

Someone else who thinks he knows what most Thai people are thinking.

Sorry to say, he's right. The amount of "seuak", "US stop interfering" "at least China and Russia know how to respect other countries' business" posts on facebook have been overwhelming. Social media is where these things are happening and looking at the number of status updates, shared posts etc. about the US opinion on the Thai coup, the response indicates that a large segment of Thai society is not happy about the US perceiving to be biased and pro-government. I even know an Indonesian guy who has some kind of love affair with Thailand, despite only visiting Thailand twice for a few days, who has been sharing these same links.

[Tomtomtom69]

From what I understand, what the USA is doing is the minimum required by US law. Flaming the USA, flaming Taksin, flaming the army, flaming whatever and whoever is so shallow. Thailand is coming to a crossroads in its history and it could be violent. I have my rapid exit cash in USD and Euros. Do you? ps ... I used to work in Iran in the late 80s.

.

Why not just have good ATM cards available?

Or as long as Baht is exchangeable outside of Thailand, just bring it along with you - no need for the whole USD/EUR exchanging fuss, although one can exchange almost any currency at Suvarnabhumi International Airport if necessary.

[Strangebrew]

I'm an American , Do I agree with US policy NO and what do I do to effect change I vote. When enough of those who are American and get out and view the real world then you learn the truth. Yes news in The US is slanted and So it is in many other countries including Australia, the UK, and European Union just to name a few. But you have to read between the lines get yourself informed. I won't come here and bash others Because of the policies of there country because that's just polictians trying to keep there job. It is about the people we basically want the same thing, good health, a job, roof over our heads and some basic freedoms Our children to get good education and be able to have a bright future. That is why we are where we are some for work other's retired and enjoying life, and as it popular to say holiday. What I think or may think about what's happening is my business I can't effect a change to it so I listen stay out of the way and let the people solve it. Unlike if you visit the US your afforded the same rights as it's citizens except the right to vote. But when people from other parts of the world slam my government in my country I don't get mad I explain that is there view but would I be able to do the same in your country and the answer is usually is No Then I say you see that is freedom and smile. But as an American you must obey the laws and culture of the country you visit. Some American's seem to forget that but that is them not the majority. In closing I hope democracy gets restored to the Thai people soon and they plot a course for the good of all Thai people, Rich as well as the poor.

[ma91c1an]

The Nation heavily edited the original letter as it appeared on Yon's Facebook page. Here is the unedited text:

"Here is the American Ambassador displaying epic ignorance and insensitivity towards current events in Thailand.

There are times when our government really shames us, as Americans we are inevitably associated with the actions of the Great Satan, and it can be uncomfortable just to be an American expatriate.

There is a monstrous disconnect between current US government policy towards Thailand and reality. Part of the problem may be that Ambassador Kenney forbade her political officers from physically visiting any of the protest sites. Serving State Department officers at the Embassy complained to me that they could not get any ground truth. They were confined to reading newspapers and talking to second hand sources. Believe me, those protest sites were never so hazardous that our diplomats should have been barred from visiting them.

I cannot accept that concern for their physical well-being was the motivation. I cannot fathom the reasons why. Thailand is undergoing an historic process. As a political scientist I am profoundly grateful to be observing it at close range, and I am endlessly fascinated.

This Ambassador is controversial for other reasons. She is known as the Twitter Ambassador, and she is endlessly twitting asinine and shallow pics and posts about absolutely nothing of gravity. She is a laughingstock in Thailand, she apparently believes that she is popular, but you do not want this brand of popularity, trust me.

I do not know who is advising her. I do not know who is telling her that her ridiculous tweets are valuable, because that person needs to be taken out to the woodshed and shot. Either this Ambassador truly is as stupid as she appears, or she is getting profoundly bad advice and reinforcement from her advisors.

I talk to State Department employees often. Her tweeting is controversial. Many deride it as undignified, and they are correct. This is no way to represent an American Embassy in a foreign country, and this is no way to represent the American people to good folks who have been our natural allies for decades since WWII and earlier. The Thai King was born in America. Right now, most Thai people are angry at us.

Our government desperately needs accurate, correct information about the political process underway in Thailand. I can only hope that the Station's reporting is better, because the State Department's reporting is terrible. God help them if a future Chelsea Manning ever publishes the cables from this timeframe. Then we will know precisely where the stupidity began, and how far it spread."

Andrew MacGregor Marshall attributes the original letter to Sirilaksana Khoman, an NACC advisor, who is conflated with Thanat Khoman, a former Foreign Minister in "US backed military dictatorships of the 1950's and 1960's," who was also a former Chairman of the Democratic Party.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152412641506154&substory_index=0&id=627196153

I hate spam.

[aimbc]

100% Agree and yes I'm an AMERICAN.

Yes, many Americans who move to Thailand sadly abandon the principles their parent country were founded upon. Thankfully, I am not one of them.

Kenney is doing a good job representing US interests in Thailand and defending the rights of the people of both countries with her actions and words. If you truly prefer living in a military dictatorship then by all means enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Our basic rights in US is the freedom of speech. When the government allows people to be killed and intimidated by the third party, then that is a form of suppression. This is the basis of democracy. People are afraid to demonstrate after nightly attacks were made against the people. And people know that the government is not to be trusted to protect them. Their basic rights. If US is so like a knight in shining armor, then they should have told the Thai government to offer better protection to the protesters and find the troublemakers. But no, they just sat idle and allow democracy to be taken away from everyone. Shame on the USA. Another tainted chapter in their history.

No one can dispute that after 700 some odd attacks and 22 protesters killed that not one suspect were caught. Democracy was gone way before the coup. The coup was just a chance for restoring democracy again.