Kerry urges Snowden to return to US

[sgtsabai]

lomatopo, I agree whole heartedly. I didn't exactly catch what you meant. Daniel Ellsberg would have been 'disappeared' under today's regime. I was fortunate enough to met him at a Texas Tech Vietnam symposium years back.

[catweazle]

Honestly, I don't really know what to make of this whole Snowden thing... He popped up from out of nowhere and announced that he has a truckload of insider $#ite about the US government and secret organisations incl. the NSA to unload that would turn the world upside down. So far, so good...

 

Then we learned something that any person with a brain and open eyes already knew or at least suspected: Everything typed, copied, sent, received, clicked on, downloaded said on the phone etc. has been collected and saved somewhere and most likely, each and every person that ever had an email address or used a mobile has a massive electronic file about him/herself somewhere on a server in the US of A, in which can be found anything from sexual preferences, general interests, hobbies and political orientation to complex personal and psychological evaluation results, and any "illegal" deeds ever performed in the past 20 or so years since the internet exists, to be pulled out of the digital library whenever needed - may it be to eliminate a possible political or industrial opponent or to ridicule, and put someone to shame who might become an obstacle to "their" hidden agenda in the future, etc... So it's nothing new there to be learned by open-minded people (who manage to think outside the box and who gather their information from any other media but mainstream) from this. E. Snowden.

 

The big bang is missing! The information that should shake the world never has been given, and if it ever will be, then whohooo, it will be done in tiny baby steps, some here, some there... almost like this fake wikileaks thing... If anyone truly wants to wake up and unite all people in the world and disclose something such drastic, you do it right away before ending up in an airport waiting hall, and you do it with a big bang, resulting in the highest impact possible! But one would definitely NOT apply it to the public like a body lotion, a tiny little rub a day... and perhaps another one tomorrow...

 

This all said, I believe that Snowden himself is not a genuine person, but a part of the plan behind this hidden agenda, whatever it is. Perhaps his job in form and appearance of a sympathetic bloke was simply to break and confirm to the public what most deep inside already knew - we are being watched, every day, every minute, every second of the way and soon also the times of cash money will be over so that we can be perfectly monitored, and can't even "consult" a hooker without big brother knowing it, letting alone the doobie you wanna buy from your favourite Bob Marley beach rasta boy...

 

So was that all, Snowden? Do you have anything more to disclose but info most of us already knew or suspected?

 

And if he really was that US of A enemy number one, the big traitor, etc. - he would be lying dead in some airport toilet by now and would not even had the time or chance to make his name public. Does anyone really believe that someone who has worked in a secret government organisation who decides to run and disclose top secret information would make it to some airport alive anywhere in the world? Come on, people, wake up!

 

Its all just a big show "they" are putting on display for us here, perhaps it was to simply distract freethinkers and lead them in the wrong direction, while a completely different deck of cards is being played behind the curtain, while we are being blinded by a dummy named E. Snowden - I very much doubt that this is his real name. If he returns, he'll most likely will be discharged with honor for a well-performed worldwide disinformation propaganda campaign, living on his very own private island in the Bahamas while the rest of the world thinks he's getting gangbanged in Super Max...

 

Am I alone with my thoughts?

Edited May 29, 2014 by catweazle

[sgtsabai]

catweazle. Yea, pretty much alone. Your thoughts have been floated out before. Personally I don't trust where those 'thoughts' came from. No way they could have dumped all that info at once and had the impact, what little it has. Hang on and wait, there is a list coming out of those under surveillance by NSA. Unfortunately most Americans didn't believe big brother was watching and had been for years. And far too many believe (still) the old crap about if you didn't do anything wrong you have nothing to fear. Bullcrap and I can testify to that. Too bad he wasn't able to reveal info on the Fumbling Bureau of Idiots, Fusion Centers and others on their spying on innocent people. While the info released by him has stirred a bit of a debate, it is too little and too late. Congress just makes it worse. Nothing has changed and nothing will unless the sheeple find their hind feet, which they show no sign of doing. He outsmarted the feds this time, but should have waited until he was in a country that would give him sanctuary until he and Greenwald released the info. As I've said, Snowden is a walking dead man and Greenwald etc. better watch their 6.

[Morch]

Am I alone with my thoughts?

 

No, no, no....the Easter Bunny concurs, and the leprechauns  are leaning toward a similar point of view.
 

Other than that. you should be aware that "they" are probably monitoring your thoughts as well, so in this sense, you're never

really alone.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Morch

[catweazle]

 

Am I alone with my thoughts?

 

No, no, no....the Easter Bunny concurs, and the leprechauns  are leaning toward a similar point of view.
 

Other than that. you should be aware that "they" are probably monitoring your thoughts as well, so in this sense, you're never

really alone.

 

 

Ridiculing someone who wanders off the beaten path is easy. Nothing to be proud of. Morch on !!! (cancelling the >ch< solves the riddle)... 
 

[Ulysses G.]

Ridiculing someone who wanders off the beaten path is easy. Nothing to be proud of.

A lot less effort than trying to refute imaginary nonsense though.

[AhFarangJa]

It appears the thorn in Kerry's backside called Snowden, is making sitting comfortably a bit awkward.

[catweazle]

catweazle. Yea, pretty much alone. Your thoughts have been floated out before. Personally I don't trust where those 'thoughts' came from. No way they could have dumped all that info at once and had the impact, what little it has. Hang on and wait, there is a list coming out of those under surveillance by NSA. Unfortunately most Americans didn't believe big brother was watching and had been for years. And far too many believe (still) the old crap about if you didn't do anything wrong you have nothing to fear. Bullcrap and I can testify to that. Too bad he wasn't able to reveal info on the Fumbling Bureau of Idiots, Fusion Centers and others on their spying on innocent people. While the info released by him has stirred a bit of a debate, it is too little and too late. Congress just makes it worse. Nothing has changed and nothing will unless the sheeple find their hind feet, which they show no sign of doing. He outsmarted the feds this time, but should have waited until he was in a country that would give him sanctuary until he and Greenwald released the info. As I've said, Snowden is a walking dead man and Greenwald etc. better watch their 6.

 

Nice answer, Sargeant Sabai - something I can live and work with! Most of what you have written aligns with my major concern which is that we all are being watched. I am very much with you when you mention those ignorant "as long as you don't do anything illegal" sheeple, and yes - perhaps I underestimated (or should I better use a Bushism; overunderestimated) in my text the average ignorant American. Most of the Europeans are the same, and while many post even the most intimate details about themselves on "farcebook and titter", they can't get their heads around the fact that every single bit they upload is being copied for savekeeping...

 

Guess you are right and Snowden really is genuine and made a lucky escape. In that case, he certainly is a dead man walking. And hellyeah, will he man up and go back to big daddy to receive a lethal injection (or worse)... did Kerry grow up in Disneyland?

 

Love your synonym for the Effen Bee Aye by the way! Good post! Thanks!

Edited May 29, 2014 by catweazle

[PiPiFFS]

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 

Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy. As I would imagine it is for most people. What you are saying is because Snowden passed on secret information to the American public then the American public must be the enemy of the American Government 

The only reason the USA is very Pi##ed off is because they have been exposed as spying on not only their own people but supposed close allies. And for Kerry to say he needs to man up just shows him for the clueless fool he appears to the world at large.

The British Government do exactly the same and have been along with the NSA for decades. 

Google Echelon. A joint listening post at Menwith Hill in the UK run by both Americans and the British to listen to every phone call, fax, email and sms etc.

It is what Governments do. they just don't like the stupid minions finding out just how much though.

I used to regularly go there to install fibre cables which allowed them to do the above

For me the guy is a whistle blower and not a traitor and should be treated as such because after all what the NSA was doing was illegal so why has nobody from the NSA facing charges ?

[catweazle]

 

Ridiculing someone who wanders off the beaten path is easy. Nothing to be proud of.

A lot less effort than trying to refute imaginary nonsense though.

 

 

You, quoting George Orwell as your signature, should now better. Time you seem to have a lot with 35.000 posts - get a life!
 

[F430murci]

Honestly, I don't really know what to make of this whole Snowden thing... He popped up from out of nowhere and announced that he has a truckload of insider $#ite about the US government and secret organisations incl. the NSA to unload that would turn the world upside down. So far, so good...
 
Then we learned something that any person with a brain and open eyes already knew or at least suspected: Everything typed, copied, sent, received, clicked on, downloaded said on the phone etc. has been collected and saved somewhere and most likely, each and every person that ever had an email address or used a mobile has a massive electronic file about him/herself somewhere on a server in the US of A, in which can be found anything from sexual preferences, general interests, hobbies and political orientation to complex personal and psychological evaluation results, and any "illegal" deeds ever performed in the past 20 or so years since the internet exists, to be pulled out of the digital library whenever needed - may it be to eliminate a possible political or industrial opponent or to ridicule, and put someone to shame who might become an obstacle to "their" hidden agenda in the future, etc... So it's nothing new there to be learned by open-minded people (who manage to think outside the box and who gather their information from any other media but mainstream) from this. E. Snowden.
 
The big bang is missing! The information that should shake the world never has been given, and if it ever will be, then whohooo, it will be done in tiny baby steps, some here, some there... almost like this fake wikileaks thing... If anyone truly wants to wake up and unite all people in the world and disclose something such drastic, you do it right away before ending up in an airport waiting hall, and you do it with a big bang, resulting in the highest impact possible! But one would definitely NOT apply it to the public like a body lotion, a tiny little rub a day... and perhaps another one tomorrow...
 
This all said, I believe that Snowden himself is not a genuine person, but a part of the plan behind this hidden agenda, whatever it is. Perhaps his job in form and appearance of a sympathetic bloke was simply to break and confirm to the public what most deep inside already knew - we are being watched, every day, every minute, every second of the way and soon also the times of cash money will be over so that we can be perfectly monitored, and can't even "consult" a hooker without big brother knowing it, letting alone the doobie you wanna buy from your favourite Bob Marley beach rasta boy...
 
So was that all, Snowden? Do you have anything more to disclose but info most of us already knew or suspected?
 
And if he really was that US of A enemy number one, the big traitor, etc. - he would be lying dead in some airport toilet by now and would not even had the time or chance to make his name public. Does anyone really believe that someone who has worked in a secret government organisation who decides to run and disclose top secret information would make it to some airport alive anywhere in the world? Come on, people, wake up!
 
Its all just a big show "they" are putting on display for us here, perhaps it was to simply distract freethinkers and lead them in the wrong direction, while a completely different deck of cards is being played behind the curtain, while we are being blinded by a dummy named E. Snowden - I very much doubt that this is his real name. If he returns, he'll most likely will be discharged with honor for a well-performed worldwide disinformation propaganda campaign, living on his very own private island in the Bahamas while the rest of the world thinks he's getting gangbanged in Super Max...
 
Am I alone with my thoughts?

My ADD is too bad to read your entire posts, but I certainly agree with the beginning part that I read.

Thus far, Snowden hasn't revealed much more than anyone with a brain and the ability to reason knew all along.

The real damaging stuff, if any, has never been discussed or is not the focal point as it has nothing to do with the popular topic of government intrusion and everything to do with national security. The stuff the media discusses is like "no shyte" stuff.

I do wish Keery and Obama would just stfu. I like Kerry and think he a decent person, but he is now losing respect since he has become the mouth piece of a weakling that does nothing but jabber. I have to think Kerry is just following marching orders, but does not necessarily agree with a lot if what he is told to say and do.

[catweazle]

 

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 

Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy. As I would imagine it is for most people. What you are saying is because Snowden passed on secret information to the American public then the American public must be the enemy of the American Government 

The only reason the USA is very Pi##ed off is because they have been exposed as spying on not only their own people but supposed close allies. And for Kerry to say he needs to man up just shows him for the clueless fool he appears to the world at large.

The British Government do exactly the same and have been along with the NSA for decades. 

Google Echelon. A joint listening post at Menwith Hill in the UK run by both Americans and the British to listen to every phone call, fax, email and sms etc.

It is what Governments do. they just don't like the stupid minions finding out just how much though.

I used to regularly go there to install fibre cables which allowed them to do the above

For me the guy is a whistle blower and not a traitor and should be treated as such because after all what the NSA was doing was illegal so why has nobody from the NSA facing charges ?

 

 

"What you are saying is because Snowden passed on secret information to the American public then the American public must be the enemy of the American Government"

 

Pipiffs - you managed to hit the nail on the head without knowing (nor believing in) it !!!

[Ulysses G.]

 

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 
Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy.

 

Snowden gave secret information to everyone in the world, including the enemy. That makes him a traitor in both our books.

[Morch]

 

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 

Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy. As I would imagine it is for most people. What you are saying is because Snowden passed on secret information to the American public then the American public must be the enemy of the American Government 

The only reason the USA is very Pi##ed off is because they have been exposed as spying on not only their own people but supposed close allies. And for Kerry to say he needs to man up just shows him for the clueless fool he appears to the world at large.

The British Government do exactly the same and have been along with the NSA for decades. 

Google Echelon. A joint listening post at Menwith Hill in the UK run by both Americans and the British to listen to every phone call, fax, email and sms etc.

It is what Governments do. they just don't like the stupid minions finding out just how much though.

I used to regularly go there to install fibre cables which allowed them to do the above

For me the guy is a whistle blower and not a traitor and should be treated as such because after all what the NSA was doing was illegal so why has nobody from the NSA facing charges ?

 

 

Well, pretty sure that sharing confidential information with any unauthorized person would constitute betrayal of trust.

Whether someone wished to call Snowden a traitor or not is another issue.

 

If he is indeed in possession of all those confidential documents, in addition to whatever other information on the agencies

he was working for, then residing in Russia certainly doesn't look that great when considering this issue. I am not suggesting

that he was necessarily interrogated by the Russians, but it wouldn't be a shocker if he gave them some extras, and of course,

any data he might have carried is almost assuredly already in their possession.

 

That is not to say that the NSA actions were lawful.

[I Like Thai]

Will the real John Kerry please man up

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs448eq1k9M[/media]

[sgtsabai]

Snowden does not have and has not had the documents, he has nothing to give Russia although I'm sure they'd like to try a little 'truth serum' on him. As in the case of Wikileaks and Chelsea Manning there is not one shred of evidence that anything that Snowden has released through Greenwald has given 'the enemy' (who ever the hell they are today) any information useful to them. Certainly most of our 'enemies' already knew much, much more than the American ignorant sheeple. Perhaps if Amerika stopped blowing up the rest of the world we wouldn't have so many 'enemies'. The real traitors are in Washington D.C., retired to home, making big bucks still telling lies and belong in GitMo. cheney/shrub et al outed a CIA agent as revenge for her husband's truth telling and that really did more than likely cost some lives and certainly cut off a flow of information. Snowden is a hero, deserves obushma's Nobel Peace Prize.

[neverdie]

Kerry needs to get his mentality out of the school playground.

Kerry is a douchebag. You'd expect a man like him to go on like this.

[Ulysses G.]

His actions during the Vietnam make him look like a hypocrite, but nothing new about that.

[sgtsabai]

Thank you I Like Thai. A very telling clip. He is not the same man I knew, although many of us knew, or at least suspected in the end he would sell out. He was so right in what he said before Congress then and so wrong for so many years now.

[Morch]

Snowden does not have and has not had the documents, he has nothing to give Russia although I'm sure they'd like to try a little 'truth serum' on him. As in the case of Wikileaks and Chelsea Manning there is not one shred of evidence that anything that Snowden has released through Greenwald has given 'the enemy' (who ever the hell they are today) any information useful to them. Certainly most of our 'enemies' already knew much, much more than the American ignorant sheeple. Perhaps if Amerika stopped blowing up the rest of the world we wouldn't have so many 'enemies'. The real traitors are in Washington D.C., retired to home, making big bucks still telling lies and belong in GitMo. cheney/shrub et al outed a CIA agent as revenge for her husband's truth telling and that really did more than likely cost some lives and certainly cut off a flow of information. Snowden is a hero, deserves obushma's Nobel Peace Prize.

 

He claims to be more than said before, with regards to his career. Operating abroad and all that.

He worked and had access to quite a few units, organizations and activities, probably not all directly

to do with mass spying on civilians.

 

Wouldn't say he has nothing to give them, if they ask nicely.

The other option would be to accept that he knows nothing - can't have both.

I'm not saying he gave them anything, just that it wouldn't be a surprise if he did.
 

Intelligence services of rival countries would naturally know more about USA confidential issues than the average

American. That's what they do. It does not mean that they know everything, nor that the general public in other

countries is better informed.

[wwest5829]

Yet another conundrum. While you don't want to encourage individuals to just go rogue and decide for themselves which government security secrets to divulge ( after all we all have varying judgements on this), on the other hand we would hope that individuals would take it upon themselves to publicly denounce government wrongdoing. So, where to draw the line? Had there been an effective, protective shield for Snowden to have come forth internally, I could condemn him. As it is, while I cannot call him a hero, I also cannot condemn him for exposing this over reach by a U.S. Government agency. As an American, I condemn the taking away of Constitutional Rights ( yes, I am fully aware of the Supreme Court rulings) in the name of security. This distroys the very thing we are supposed to be protecting...freedom for the individual against government control.

[catweazle]

Will the real John Kerry please man up

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs448eq1k9M[/media]

 

Wow!!! Finally I understand what Obama meant when he was babbling about CHANGE !

 

Thanks, I like Thai, for sharing this - great video!!!  

[catweazle]

Yet another conundrum. While you don't want to encourage individuals to just go rogue and decide for themselves which government security secrets to divulge ( after all we all have varying judgements on this), on the other hand we would hope that individuals would take it upon themselves to publicly denounce government wrongdoing. So, where to draw the line? Had there been an effective, protective shield for Snowden to have come forth internally, I could condemn him. As it is, while I cannot call him a hero, I also cannot condemn him for exposing this over reach by a U.S. Government agency. As an American, I condemn the taking away of Constitutional Rights ( yes, I am fully aware of the Supreme Court rulings) in the name of security. This distroys the very thing we are supposed to be protecting...freedom for the individual against government control.

 

Freedom already has been destroyed, or better put - wiped out for good in the western world. And there's no turning back, and it will get worse!

[Credo]

I have never been convinced that he had all that much information which would be of interest to anyone.   I think the danger that he posed was that he knew how the information was being gathered, sorted, analyzed and stored.   

[PiPiFFS]

 

 

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 
Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy.

 

Snowden gave secret information to everyone in the world, including the enemy. That makes him a traitor in both our books.

 

 

 

Yes He told The American people and the rest of the world the NSA was illegally recording AMERICAN calls etc. That doesn't make him guilty of passing information to the enemy unless you like the US Government see the American public as the enemy. 

You also don't answer why nobody from the NSA or the US Government has been charged with illegal behaviour. or because it is the Good old USA Government doing it then it is OK ?

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies deleted.  

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. 

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

 

I think that Snowden is a traitor, but if he volunteered to go back to the USA willingly, he would also be a complete imbecile. Run Ed, run!

 
Ulysses my definition of a traitor is someone who gives secret information to the enemy.

 

Snowden gave secret information to everyone in the world, including the enemy. That makes him a traitor in both our books.

 

 
 
Yes He told The American people and the rest of the world the NSA was illegally recording AMERICAN calls etc.

 

He also told all our enemies our capabilities for monitoring them, even though he swore an oath and signed a pledge not to. That means that he gave secret information to our enemies and makes him a traitor by your definition - and mine. 

[Chill1]

Perhaps ignorance really is bliss. We are probably better off not knowing that our governments are spying on us. It must be better not knowing. Less stressful. Keep me fat dumb and happy please.

Bradley (Chelsea) Manning showed US air crew laughing after killing dozens of innocent reporters and civilians in an air strike. He gave us the records of the civilian death toll in Iraq showing that of the 109,000 deaths logged, over 66,000 were unarmed civilians!
He showed that US Soldiers were committing horrific acts of torture on Iraqi prisoners, and despite hundreds of filed complaints, they were never investigated.

After that I was worried.

Now Snowden is releasing documents showing the extent to which our every communication is being monitored. This information could be used in decisions on whether I am a domestic terrorist or not.

Surely we are all better off not knowing.

Give me Duck Dynasty and the Kardashians please.

..................... Written in the sarcastic font...................

[Morch]

Perhaps ignorance really is bliss. We are probably better off not knowing that our governments are spying on us. It must be better not knowing. Less stressful. Keep me fat dumb and happy please.

Bradley (Chelsea) Manning showed US air crew laughing after killing dozens of innocent reporters and civilians in an air strike. He gave us the records of the civilian death toll in Iraq showing that of the 109,000 deaths logged, over 66,000 were unarmed civilians!
He showed that US Soldiers were committing horrific acts of torture on Iraqi prisoners, and despite hundreds of filed complaints, they were never investigated.

After that I was worried.

Now Snowden is releasing documents showing the extent to which our every communication is being monitored. This information could be used in decisions on whether I am a domestic terrorist or not.

Surely we are all better off not knowing.

Give me Duck Dynasty and the Kardashians please.

..................... Written in the sarcastic font...................

 

I don't have an issue with exposing wrongs done by armies and governments.

In many of the cases exposed, actions taken by the powers that be are unlawful and ought to be condemned.

 

That said, both Manning and Snowden did betray trust by relaying classified/restricted information outside their

respective authorized systems. They might have done so for noble reasons (or not, motivation is a somewhat

different, and tricky, angle), and it might be said that the general population is better off knowing these things -

but it is still, in a way, like trying to say that two wrongs make a right, or that they cancel each other. Now, I'm

not trying to claim that that the gravity of Manning and Snowden's transgressions are equal to those exposed,

just that it does not mean they did no wrong.

 

I have more sympathy for Manning, facing consequences and all, as opposed to Snowden. The latter is certainly

smarter, though.