Junta mulls pricey transport projects

[smutcakes]

Why is this military dictatorship reviewing investment infrastructure projects? This should be deferred by them until an election is held and there is a civilian government. This news points out how out of hand the Thai situation is.

Yes, you would of thought that more pressing matters of 'reform' etc would be first on the agenda, but it seems the funders behind the PDRC want their money back asap. (and more)

Interesting noting that no one is asking for reports, feasibility studies, plans etc of the infrastructure plans which were all necessary and impossible to proceed without previously.

Wonder how long it will be until people finally wake up and see this power grab for what it is. Great way to reform the country, replace cronies of one person with your own cronies.

[boomerangutang]

Ncfc what an allegation. Spending money is what government does. It is a lot better laid out than those who,previously fed off the trough

A lot of ideas like infrastructure look good at initial stages. Someone could propose overhead mag-lev trains connecting every city in Thailand. That person could hire an adept artist to draw impressive depictions of happy people using them. Does that make it a good idea?

It's the implementation and payment methods and maintenance which show their fuzzy heads later on. Look no further than the concrete megaliths marching up to Don Muang airport. Or read up on the persistent problems with low-speed rail in Thailand - or military arsenals blowing up about once-per-year. The junta should not meddle in infrastructure projects. It should leave such things to elected reps (who already make plenty of mistakes).

Corruption and tea money can happen just as easily during juntas as during parliamentary rule. During several Thai administrations, purchases were made of black boxes which did nothing, and cost roughly $30,000 each. All those purchases had military and police oversight. Those black boxes are still being used. The Shinawatre administration bought furniture and clocks for hundreds of times more money than you or I would have paid.

That's a basic function of government: To grossly overpay for everything and every service they purchase.

Edited May 30, 2014 by boomerangutang

[theoldgit]

Flame removed.

[boomerangutang]

From Today's Nation newspaper:

The State Enterprise Policy Office (SEPO) will propose to the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to push for investment under the joint investment act, public-private partnership (PPP) and planned infrastructure fund,...

The Office would propose public-private partnership, investments beyond Bt1 billion under the joint investment act and plans to set up infrastructure funds, Prasong said. State enterprises' disbursement of the investment budget would also be speeded up for fiscal 2014 and was planned to be close to the target of Bt400 billion.

source

Ahhhh, the smell of money: All types of slicksters are sallying up to the trough. They quickly surmised: now that Army brass hold the purse strings - let's go sliding up alongside our military friends, bearing gifts and big smiles. Sales of boxes of Johnny Walker Black Label probably just shot up in Bangkok.

[The Deerhunter]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Not having the funding is a very sensible reason not to proceed. Not that that ever stopped Thaksin and his stooges when it was Other People's Money.

OPD is better thatn OPM that is when Other Peoples Debt becomes "our money."

[The Deerhunter]

Nope we will scrap the lot and just buy every general a new Mercedes 500 and 200 new Tanks and a few aircraft carriers much more things needed as a priority then people going about Thailand in trains trains will be no good when the Chinese are invading us at least the generals can speed away to the nearest border bolt hole during an invasion.

That sounds more like Johnny Walker talking, not Jim Walker. Do we assume you are not enjoying the lack of violence during the coup?

[whybother]

No. The request is to avoid political lobbying and propaganda. This was a discussion that did that until you arrived wanting to score points. Your obsession with Thaksin is really tiresome.

Sorry ... who was trying to score points?

The problems with Hopewell were under a Democrat administration. <snip>

[whybother]

Why is this military dictatorship reviewing investment infrastructure projects? This should be deferred by them until an election is held and there is a civilian government. This news points out how out of hand the Thai situation is.

Because the economy can't wait a couple of years for government investment.

[ratcatcher]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Yes - because the current infrastructure we have is so advanced isnt it. broken track, broken stock basic carriages, 100 year old stations, signals lights.............Im not a train expert but i think thailand trains need to be upgraded before we can build up to super level.How many hours from BKK to Chiang mai?

BKK to CNX 1 hr. and 15 min. why would any one ride the train .

You may well be able to afford the money to fly from Don Mueang to Chiang Mai. Thousands who ride the trains every day ride them because they cannot afford the air fare and there are no airports in little Nakhon Nowhere, but the good old train stops there.

Not everybody in the country is in a rush to get from A to B. Thank God.

[The Deerhunter]

Doomsayers constrain Thailand's development. This is visionary and is a wonderful investment in the future

Your other post on this subject, applauding the prospect, now visionary,

Why would anyone buy a rail ticket to get to CMai, at more than the price of a flight ??? 6hours or 1 and a half hour.

Who would use the rail ??? business NO time is money so to many hours wasted on the train.

A similar standard rail of UK is more than adequate for here. At a fraction of the cost. the lines first, standard gauge after years of running invest if necessary bullet style. The tracks are in place then--only rolling stock to replace.

Walk before run.

me for one. i go to great lengths and would also incur costs to avoid the gestapo stamping ground that is todays airports. sleeper trains are a fine way to travel. free shaking massage included. time is not in short supply for most retirees.

But were talking about Extra high speed or 125 style UK, European width tracks--dual. Especially, BKK--Korat--K.Khen--Udon--Nong Khai--I call the big city line, freight to Laos. more important than a bleeding high speed to C.Mai for who ??? Inter city link, NOT BKK -C.Mai.

The Chaingmai destintion was a political decision. The CM Ammart. & her mates would always go by helicopters but they need their staff & local business peoples & shopkeeper friends to have high speed trains from Bkk to CM. Sorry. Just telling it like it probably is. (was).

[Piichai]

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird. And one month ago all the yellow supporters were slamming any infrastructure projects, although they are badly needed here? Now, suddenly, officials are talking about infrastructure projects?

... thinking people notice.

Caretakers have limited power to do things. Yingluck was attempting to overstep her authority, and that's why people complained; it had nothing to do with whether the projects were needed or "good." It was simply not her place to do so at that time.

Prayuth is not lumbered by being a caretaker.

[ratcatcher]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Yes - because the current infrastructure we have is so advanced isnt it. broken track, broken stock basic carriages, 100 year old stations, signals lights.............Im not a train expert but i think thailand trains need to be upgraded before we can build up to super level.How many hours from BKK to Chiang mai?

BKK to CNX 1 hr. and 15 min. why would any one ride the train .

I think any high speed train system will be about freight not about people. That's why it goes to Nong Khai.

"I think any high speed train system will be about freight .........."

No country in the world has "High Speed Freight" trains. The U.S.A. and Canada, because of their huge size, have fast, efficient trans-continental trains that carry freight from Pacific coast ports to Atlantic coast destinations and in between.

Thailand's rail system needs to be brought into the 20th century to serve the Thai people who are not all wealthy or even well off but can at least afford the fare from their hometown (if served by rail nearby) to Bangkok .

China, with a population of over 1.3 billion people has dozens of huge cities with a network of railways serving them. Thailand has a railway built over 100 years ago that needs serious upgrades with double tracking, new rolling stock and locomotives.. HST is a dream to be realized in the future not at the present.

[Piichai]

It takes a couple of weeks to see who is onboard with the junta and then get right on the money.

Does Asia seem a bit mysterious times ?? No problem, just follow the money.

I am a bit astounded at the military raising this transportation bill boondoggle.

Thought they were smarter than that. There is no need for a high speed rail

service from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. The peasants will not be able to afford

the ticket costs, and the rich people will be flying overhead in jets.....

Regarding the Nong Khai to Bangkok proposal , that is simply opening up a Chinese

invasion route...... How about fixing up existing roads, and not worry about raking

off 30 % tea money fees for new mega infrastructure projects...

As budget time approaches, the military is just performing their due diligence.

[pancakeman]

Good way to get popular real quick is push through some mass transit projects.

If a BTS or MRT station popups I right near me I won't give a crap if they are elected or not.

[The Deerhunter]

PS But the really expensive infrastructure things should be decided by a proper democratic government (not an undemocratic that arranged for itself to be elected; ....... apparently democraticly. I would not be surprised if the General defers these big projects to the next govt. The HS rail definetely is not urgent.

[issanaus]

Transport infrastructure is a National issue. Party political is geographical focused to meet the needs of the supporters and financial backers. The Military government is national focused and committed to the unification and reconciliation of the Kingdom.

If you look at history you will find that the Military were often the driving force behind major transport infrastructure projects. From the times of the Romans in Britain to the development of the road network in Isaan in response to communist threats we have seen the military need for efficient transport benefit the civilian community after the military purpose has finished.

[White Christmas13]

The high speed train is not economically feasible, expensive and dangerous.

It might be true for Thailand but not for the rest of the world just bought a ticked

from Frankfurt to Cologne on ICE, return ticked 38 euro

distance about 200 km one way,travelling time 58 min on this nice train

top speed about 300kh

From the OP:

The ministry has asked for a Bt380-billion budget for fiscal 2015, nearly triple the Bt130 billion for the current year, as some projects from the scrapped Bt2-trillion infrastructure scheme are now included.

It's not enough to already be deep in debt. Let's really have a party and triple our debt. Borrow a lot, and borrow some more, and leave it to our kids and grandkids to figure out how to pay for our wild excesses.

[northernjohn]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Yes - because the current infrastructure we have is so advanced isnt it. broken track, broken stock basic carriages, 100 year old stations, signals lights.............Im not a train expert but i think thailand trains need to be upgraded before we can build up to super level.How many hours from BKK to Chiang mai?

BKK to CNX 1 hr. and 15 min. why would any one ride the train .

I think any high speed train system will be about freight not about people. That's why it goes to Nong Khai.

Makes no difference to me I just want to ride one once. Guess the best way is to go to Japan or China. Not interested in Europe or pouring money into off shore bank accounts for Thai politicians.

[indyuk]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

You are certainly correct. I have always believed so my self. The entire railroad package as proposed by Pua Thai Party (and the democrat Party in the past) would most likely accelerate Thailand into a rapidly growing economy just as the friendship roads did years ago. The entire set of proposed rail projects offer a major game changer, not just for Thailand but also all of South East Asia too.

[Jay Sata]

You may well be able to afford the money to fly from Don Mueang to Chiang Mai. Thousands who ride the trains every day ride them because they cannot afford the air fare and there are no airports in little Nakhon Nowhere, but the good old train stops there.

Not everybody in the country is in a rush to get from A to B. Thank God.

If they are not in a rush why bother with a high speed train.

The Thai public will not pay higher fares hence the worn out old units that keeping falling off the rails.

If the fare was higher than the bus then there would be protests from the bus companies.

And how are all the veg vendors and market traders going to fit in to these new trains?

[boomerangutang]

PS But the really expensive infrastructure things should be decided by a proper democratic government (not an undemocratic that arranged for itself to be elected; ....... apparently democraticly. I would not be surprised if the General defers these big projects to the next govt. The HS rail definetely is not urgent.

You say you would NOT be surprised if....

With all due respect, I would say the opposite. He is already putting big spending infrastructure on the table. Do you think he would somehow become demure, and back down from turbo-charging all sorts of infrastructure initiatives?

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

You are certainly correct. I have always believed so my self. The entire railroad package as proposed by Pua Thai Party (and the democrat Party in the past) would most likely accelerate Thailand into a rapidly growing economy just as the friendship roads did years ago. The entire set of proposed rail projects offer a major game changer, not just for Thailand but also all of South East Asia too.

'Game Changer' can mean many things, not all of them positive. For starters, Thailand is bringing in LESS MONEY, not more. If it couldn't afford fancy new projects before, it certainly can't now. Unless, of course, you do what Uncle Sam or Shinawatres like to do: BORROW UNTIL YOUR BLUE IN THE FACE, ....and then borrow some more, and more, and....

The high speed train is a gift to Chinese commerce. Look at its main routes, most of which go from Bangkok up towards China. China will be asked to bankroll it. If any one of the successive 36 Thai administrations for the next 60 years defaults on payments (principal and/or %) ....Chinese Banks will own it and the properties it runs through. It's another brick in the wall towards Chinese take-over of SE Asia. How does 'The Autonomous Region of Thailand' sound? ....nice ring to it?

[troglodyke]

the major Raison d'être by far for the protests and coup. as with anything thai its all about the cash. even sutheps & abhists murder charges are distantly out paced by this cash splash..

assigning of milking rights is military business.

it about the proposed chinese high speed rail link. the US order this coup to stop that going ahead. they would lose to many plane sales. they instigate wars/unrest to keep air route profitable and the only alternative in key places around the globe. mainly to look after their air plane sales.

Edited June 8, 2014 by troglodyke