Unprofessional and unskilled English Teacher's do you feel guilty?

[AYJAYDEE]

I can assure you that to teach English, you DON'T need a native English teacher.

There are countries where there are perfect English teachers

(I am not specifically referring to TH)

But insisting that you need a native English teacher to teach English is absolute Bull.

(or for that matter ANY language)

True but this also means you don't understand what TEFL entails.

I agree.

But, if a teacher can teach English (or any other language) to another perfectly is it bad?

TEFL is a standard.

But again it goes like this...

Qualifications for TEFL teachers

Qualification requirements vary considerably from country to country and among employers within the same country. In many institutions it is possible to teach without a degree or teaching certificate.

Teacher surpluses in the USA, Canada and many places in the West have made available many degreed professional teachers. Thailand has only to increase it's recruiting efforts to better the quality of it's English education.

wages are too low

[wow64]

TEFL is way better then a 4 year degree. Its faster faster = better

[wilcopops]

TEFL is way better then a 4 year degree. Its faster faster = better

if you mean first degree? Most TEFLs are taken by people after they graduate.

[Yooyung]

Ok...all this pontificating is hilarious. Take it from someone who has actually taught at many different levels in this country, for about 10 years now. The realites of teaching English in Thailand are as follows:

1) You get thrown in a room with 40 disinterested kids that cant really see the purpose of learning English. The room is 37 degrees celcius with two broken fans on the roof. The 'agency' or 'owner' of the school gives you a pen and says "we want con WER SAY CHAN!!!! ....are there any books? No! Is there any sort of curriculum to follow..NO! Do the kids have books specifically used for my classes, that they can take notes in NO! Are there ANY resources I can use NO!.....how about the photocopier....CANNOT!!!!

2) The Thai kids are being taught incorrectly most of the time by the Thai English teachers. The Thai English teacher RARELY get the kids to actually use any English....even basic conversations. So, what are we left with? Basically a bunch of kids that have been given bogus information, that have never really had the chance to actually use English.....in a 37 degree room with a broken fan on the roof!!!

3) You see the kids ONCE PER WEEK FOR ABOUT 40 MINUTES!!!! After that they leave the classroom and dont use, hear or even think about English again untill you see them next week....by which time they have forgotten anything that you have taught them.

4) English is NOT taken that seriously as a subject.....and heres the thing THE KIDS ALL PASS ANYWAY!!!!!! I have had kids that are really strong in English, really talented students but, there is always a certain 'attitude' amongst other students that if they are too good....that they are somehow 'not one of us' and maybe..just maybe are losing too much of their 'Thainess' This attitude does not help. I must stress though that I think this attitude may be changing... for the better.

5) The pay is too low to attract REAL qualified...in their home countries teachers. Sure, a teacher should have some kind of degree and a TEFL...but REAL teachers from the west will NOT work for 35,000/ 40,000 baht per month in the conditions that I am talking about....So you can FORGET any pie in the sky ideals about that....it aint gonna happen.

Thats it for now. Let me just say that I still like teaching here. I have found my own way of doing things, this has kept me sane, while others have gone mad and headed back home. There are some good schools. A lot of the schools know the problems and would love to/ are trying to get better. I just cant stand to hear people rave on about things that they obviously dont really have any experience in. Teaching here is VERY challenging, basically the odds are stacked against you.....all these 'ideal world' rants dont actually mean s**t.

Cheers

[boomerangutang]

Why expect Thai kids to get top notch teachers? Anything is better than nothing. Thai standards are just that; Thai standards. there's a road near me, in Chiang Rai. It has sand and gravel trucks going back and forth every day. One section has giant red signs saying in Thai; 'all trucks over 5 tons, take detour.' The first day the signs were put up, about 3 trucks took the detour. In the 15 months since, none have. The main part of the road was getting torn up, so it was resurfaced. I watched the workers doing the job and thought to myself; that resurfacing is going to last 6 months. It lasted 5.

The point here; we can't expect farang standards of teaching for Thai students. Personally, I favor allowing any native-English speaker the opportunity to show whether he/she is up to snuff, if they're willing to devote the hours and calories to being a teacher. It they aren't good enough, let 'em go. However, some folks, even with zero paper credentials, will prove to be adept at imparting their knowledge on students.

What Thai students need, most of all, in regard to learning English, is simply to converse with a native speaker who will gently aid them along the way. Memorizing sintax and pluperfect subjuctive and past-perfect subjunctives is how Thai (English teachers) would steer the course, but it's like going to a Beethoven concert and only studying the notations on the manuscript, and not listening to the music.

Edited June 5, 2014 by boomerangutang

[thailiketoo]

Ok...all this pontificating is hilarious. Take it from someone who has actually taught at many different levels in this country, for about 10 years now. The realites of teaching English in Thailand are as follows:

1) You get thrown in a room with 40 disinterested kids that cant really see the purpose of learning English. The room is 37 degrees celcius with two broken fans on the roof. The 'agency' or 'owner' of the school gives you a pen and says "we want con WER SAY CHAN!!!! ....are there any books? No! Is there any sort of curriculum to follow..NO! Do the kids have books specifically used for my classes, that they can take notes in NO! Are there ANY resources I can use NO!.....how about the photocopier....CANNOT!!!!

2) The Thai kids are being taught incorrectly most of the time by the Thai English teachers. The Thai English teacher RARELY get the kids to actually use any English....even basic conversations. So, what are we left with? Basically a bunch of kids that have been given bogus information, that have never really had the chance to actually use English.....in a 37 degree room with a broken fan on the roof!!!

3) You see the kids ONCE PER WEEK FOR ABOUT 40 MINUTES!!!! After that they leave the classroom and dont use, hear or even think about English again untill you see them next week....by which time they have forgotten anything that you have taught them.

4) English is NOT taken that seriously as a subject.....and heres the thing THE KIDS ALL PASS ANYWAY!!!!!! I have had kids that are really strong in English, really talented students but, there is always a certain 'attitude' amongst other students that if they are too good....that they are somehow 'not one of us' and maybe..just maybe are losing too much of their 'Thainess' This attitude does not help. I must stress though that I think this attitude may be changing... for the better.

5) The pay is too low to attract REAL qualified...in their home countries teachers. Sure, a teacher should have some kind of degree and a TEFL...but REAL teachers from the west will NOT work for 35,000/ 40,000 baht per month in the conditions that I am talking about....So you can FORGET any pie in the sky ideals about that....it aint gonna happen.

Thats it for now. Let me just say that I still like teaching here. I have found my own way of doing things, this has kept me sane, while others have gone mad and headed back home. There are some good schools. A lot of the schools know the problems and would love to/ are trying to get better. I just cant stand to hear people rave on about things that they obviously dont really have any experience in. Teaching here is VERY challenging, basically the odds are stacked against you.....all these 'ideal world' rants dont actually mean s**t.

Cheers

Sorry but your post is full of it. 1. You wrote, "You get thrown in a room with 40 disinterested kids that cant really see the purpose of learning English. The room is 37 degrees celcius with two broken fans on the roof. The 'agency' or 'owner' of the school gives you a pen and says "we want con WER SAY CHAN!!!! ....are there any books? No! Is there any sort of curriculum to follow..NO! Do the kids have books specifically used for my classes, that they can take notes in NO! Are there ANY resources I can use NO!.....how about the photocopier....CANNOT!!!!"

The reality is that the government school is hot but after school they have an English club that meets and interested students practice English subjects.

The reality is that all the schools compete in English contests; spelling, speaking and acting.

The reality is that the good teacher buys a printer and prints books and exercises every day.

2. You wrote, " English is NOT taken that seriously as a subject.....and heres the thing THE KIDS ALL PASS ANYWAY!!!!!! I have had kids that are really strong in English, really talented students but, there is always a certain 'attitude' amongst other students that if they are too good....that they are somehow 'not one of us' and maybe..just maybe are losing too much of their 'Thainess' This attitude does not help. I must stress though that I think this attitude may be changing... for the better.

In government schools the principal always asked me for grades. Why? I had older students from a previous year that had failed. Why?

3. "The pay is too low to attract REAL qualified...in their home countries teachers. Sure, a teacher should have some kind of degree and a TEFL...but REAL teachers from the west will NOT work for 35,000/ 40,000 baht per month in the conditions that I am talking about....So you can FORGET any pie in the sky ideals about that....it aint gonna happen."

There is a surplus of teachers in many parts of the West and school teachers have a choice; flip burgers or come to Asia to teach. Plus one would have to be completely clueless not to pick up on the after school opportunities in English in Thailand.

[thailiketoo]

True but this also means you don't understand what TEFL entails.

I agree.

But, if a teacher can teach English (or any other language) to another perfectly is it bad?

TEFL is a standard.

But again it goes like this...

Qualifications for TEFL teachers

Qualification requirements vary considerably from country to country and among employers within the same country. In many institutions it is possible to teach without a degree or teaching certificate.

Teacher surpluses in the USA, Canada and many places in the West have made available many degreed professional teachers. Thailand has only to increase it's recruiting efforts to better the quality of it's English education.

wages are too low

My rate was 1000 baht per hour. I don't care how many students. 1 or 100.

I use the BGRROP. When I first got here it was 500 baht per hour.

Schools pay all across the board. I'd say the average teacher I know has a base rate of between 25 and 40,000 baht per month. There are a lot of after school opportunities.

[AYJAYDEE]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

[thailiketoo]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

[AYJAYDEE]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

[thailiketoo]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

You don't sing and dance. I do. You mean, you have never heard of my book? Dancing and singing your way to English proficiency?

Edited June 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[AYJAYDEE]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

You don't sing and dance. I do. You mean, you have never heard of my book? Dancing and singing your way to English proficiency?

before elvis there was chuck berry

[thailiketoo]

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

You don't sing and dance. I do. You mean, you have never heard of my book? Dancing and singing your way to English proficiency?

before elvis there was chuck berry

Elvis first album 1956. Now you tell us when Chuck Berry released his first album.

[wilcopops]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

just over a minute per kid....

[thailiketoo]

rural schools and parents cant afford that rate

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

just over a minute per kid....

I gotta tell you this. Teachers teach in classrooms because they talk to and teach more than one child at a time. It's not like Western marriage.

I started teaching here in the 1960's. Most Thais knew not one word of English. Then I started teaching with my, "Dancing and singing your way to English proficiency." I taught everyone how to bump and grind and sing one song, "Happy Birthday." I'm sure you have met some of my students. The goal is to have realistic goals.

Edited June 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[wilcopops]

If they got enough students they could. 50 children is only 20 baht each for an hour. Not bad for a babysitter.

I dont care how good you are, 1 hour with 50 kids is not going to teach them much.

just over a minute per kid....

I gotta tell you this. Teachers teach in classrooms because they talk to and teach more than one child at a time. It's not like Western marriage.

I started teaching here in the 1960's. Most Thais knew not one word of English. Then I started teaching with my, "Dancing and singing your way to English proficiency." I taught everyone how to bump and grind and sing one song, "Happy Birthday." I'm sure you have met some of my students. The goal is to have realistic goals.

It would appear after 50 or so years of teaching your comprehension (or have you just become obtuse in your dotage?) along with many other of your faculties are on the wane.......it also looks to me that you haven't updated your teaching skills since the sixties, which would explain your big gaps on this subject.

[JLCrab]

'Elvis Presley' the album was released in March 1956. Little Richard's "Here's Little Richard" was released in March 1957 however he had six Top 40 hits the previous year, some of which were included on the album.

'Elvis Presley' the album contained the song Tutti Fruitti co-credited to Richard Wayne Penniman AKA Little Richard.

[Yooyung]

Ok...all this pontificating is hilarious. Take it from someone who has actually taught at many different levels in this country, for about 10 years now. The realites of teaching English in Thailand are as follows:

1) You get thrown in a room with 40 disinterested kids that cant really see the purpose of learning English. The room is 37 degrees celcius with two broken fans on the roof. The 'agency' or 'owner' of the school gives you a pen and says "we want con WER SAY CHAN!!!! ....are there any books? No! Is there any sort of curriculum to follow..NO! Do the kids have books specifically used for my classes, that they can take notes in NO! Are there ANY resources I can use NO!.....how about the photocopier....CANNOT!!!!

2) The Thai kids are being taught incorrectly most of the time by the Thai English teachers. The Thai English teacher RARELY get the kids to actually use any English....even basic conversations. So, what are we left with? Basically a bunch of kids that have been given bogus information, that have never really had the chance to actually use English.....in a 37 degree room with a broken fan on the roof!!!

3) You see the kids ONCE PER WEEK FOR ABOUT 40 MINUTES!!!! After that they leave the classroom and dont use, hear or even think about English again untill you see them next week....by which time they have forgotten anything that you have taught them.

4) English is NOT taken that seriously as a subject.....and heres the thing THE KIDS ALL PASS ANYWAY!!!!!! I have had kids that are really strong in English, really talented students but, there is always a certain 'attitude' amongst other students that if they are too good....that they are somehow 'not one of us' and maybe..just maybe are losing too much of their 'Thainess' This attitude does not help. I must stress though that I think this attitude may be changing... for the better.

5) The pay is too low to attract REAL qualified...in their home countries teachers. Sure, a teacher should have some kind of degree and a TEFL...but REAL teachers from the west will NOT work for 35,000/ 40,000 baht per month in the conditions that I am talking about....So you can FORGET any pie in the sky ideals about that....it aint gonna happen.

Thats it for now. Let me just say that I still like teaching here. I have found my own way of doing things, this has kept me sane, while others have gone mad and headed back home. There are some good schools. A lot of the schools know the problems and would love to/ are trying to get better. I just cant stand to hear people rave on about things that they obviously dont really have any experience in. Teaching here is VERY challenging, basically the odds are stacked against you.....all these 'ideal world' rants dont actually mean s**t.

Cheers

Sorry but your post is full of it. 1. You wrote, "You get thrown in a room with 40 disinterested kids that cant really see the purpose of learning English. The room is 37 degrees celcius with two broken fans on the roof. The 'agency' or 'owner' of the school gives you a pen and says "we want con WER SAY CHAN!!!! ....are there any books? No! Is there any sort of curriculum to follow..NO! Do the kids have books specifically used for my classes, that they can take notes in NO! Are there ANY resources I can use NO!.....how about the photocopier....CANNOT!!!!"

The reality is that the government school is hot but after school they have an English club that meets and interested students practice English subjects.

The reality is that all the schools compete in English contests; spelling, speaking and acting.

The reality is that the good teacher buys a printer and prints books and exercises every day.

2. You wrote, " English is NOT taken that seriously as a subject.....and heres the thing THE KIDS ALL PASS ANYWAY!!!!!! I have had kids that are really strong in English, really talented students but, there is always a certain 'attitude' amongst other students that if they are too good....that they are somehow 'not one of us' and maybe..just maybe are losing too much of their 'Thainess' This attitude does not help. I must stress though that I think this attitude may be changing... for the better.

In government schools the principal always asked me for grades. Why? I had older students from a previous year that had failed. Why?

3. "The pay is too low to attract REAL qualified...in their home countries teachers. Sure, a teacher should have some kind of degree and a TEFL...but REAL teachers from the west will NOT work for 35,000/ 40,000 baht per month in the conditions that I am talking about....So you can FORGET any pie in the sky ideals about that....it aint gonna happen."

There is a surplus of teachers in many parts of the West and school teachers have a choice; flip burgers or come to Asia to teach. Plus one would have to be completely clueless not to pick up on the after school opportunities in English in Thailand.

I am actually NOT going to disagree with you. Sure the school I am working at has the things you mentioned, and its great! We have prep for competitions, English clb etc...BUT that has nothing to do with the run of the mill teaching in large classes, that is a separate issue. The fact is that run of the mill government high school classes are too big, a curriculum is NOT provided ( I have designed one myself because I do give a sh**) and there is really very little incentive for most students to learn English. Also, the no fail policy has been discussed countless times....Basically I have to prepare everthing for my normal (ie NOT IEP classes) and thats the way its always been. I have learnt how to cope. I cannot make photocopies as THERE ARE TOO MANY STUDENTS IN NORMAL PROGRAM!! Is there something you cant understand about that?

Anyway, there are some good schools. I have worked at them. If you have found a good school then great. The fact is that for the run of the mill farang stepping off the plane and straight into a government high school.....well, its a challenge to say the least.

[thailiketoo]

I am actually NOT going to disagree with you. Sure the school I am working at has the things you mentioned, and its great! We have prep for competitions, English clb etc...BUT that has nothing to do with the run of the mill teaching in large classes, that is a separate issue. The fact is that run of the mill government high school classes are too big, a curriculum is NOT provided ( I have designed one myself because I do give a sh**) and there is really very little incentive for most students to learn English. Also, the no fail policy has been discussed countless times....Basically I have to prepare everthing for my normal (ie NOT IEP classes) and thats the way its always been. I have learnt how to cope. I cannot make photocopies as THERE ARE TOO MANY STUDENTS IN NORMAL PROGRAM!! Is there something you cant understand about that?

Anyway, there are some good schools. I have worked at them. If you have found a good school then great. The fact is that for the run of the mill farang stepping off the plane and straight into a government high school.....well, its a challenge to say the least.

I worked in a number of schools. The largest government school I had all of the students for 5 years starting with 4th grade. It was ideal for establishing my own curriculum.

It was too bad I didn't know at the beginning what I knew at the end.

I converted a printer to ink tanks so in reality my cost was down to the cost of the paper.

I never had trouble with large classes as I broke them down to into 4 groups each taught by me but watched over by one of the better students (5 years at the same school made this possible).

It would be easy to improve the English education system 100% because it is so low right now. It is just too complicated. KISS and do the same for all children all over Thailand.

900 words. 100 per year. 100 school days per year (after festivals and such). All the kids in Thailand in the same grade learning one word at the same time on the same day.

Since I'm only trying to educate to a toddler level and since toddlers don't take grammar courses we can forget about grammar.

Edited June 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[JLCrab]

I worked in a number of schools. Some were actually located on Planet Earth.

[pigeonjake]

is this still the teachers thread

or the old grey wistlle test?

[Yooyung]

....EVERYBODY...1,2,3....Happy bird day too yooo happy bird day tooo yooo happy bird day happy bird day..........happy biiiiiirrrrrdddd ddddaaaaayyyy toooo yoooooo.....

[thailiketoo]

And that is the attitude that permeates English Education in Thailand. Kids in Thailand will learn anything if it is sung.

Thai kids like to dance and sing.

10 Thai children (ages 10 to 18) standing in a line. Ask each one where is the toilet?

How many will respond? 1 or 2.

10 Thai Children standing in a line. Ask each one to sing happy birthday. 100% can do.

Now who is the great teacher?

Edited June 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[rgs2001uk]

is this still the teachers thread

or the old grey wistlle test?

Nothing wrong with the OGWT apart from that obnoxious tawat "Whispering Bob"

Its teaching jake, but not as you and I know it, there aint have some load of waffle posted on here.

The real teachers are earning a crust eleswhere, the TEFLRs are stuck here becoz they have nothing to offer apart from some sort of dodgy KSR diploma.

Edited June 5, 2014 by rgs2001uk

[pigeonjake]

fancy going for an interview and singing your f$$king name

[thailiketoo]

fancy going for an interview and singing your f$$king name

There is a message for those who listen.

[thailiketoo]

Or for those who don't believe yet.

[AYJAYDEE]

Elvis first album 1956. Now you tell us when Chuck Berry released his first album.

since when does the existance of an album denote the existance of a person who plays rock and roll??

[AYJAYDEE]

Or for those who don't believe yet.

singing happy birthday aint gonna cut it at an ASEAN conference

[pigeonjake]

have a look at the thai tims singing, its on youtube,,