opening a bar/ restaurant without knowing the basics?

[crazykopite]

Not so long ago a friend of my son was out on holiday he tapped up with a bar girl and within days they were talking about opening a bar he told me it was the girls idea, the guy I am talking about is an absolute computer wiz 30 something so he is no spring chicken his salary back in the Uk is over 50 k thank goodness he had the sense to,hear me out and did not go ahead with the GFs idea, after a month of releasing his energies he returned back to the Uk and back to his employment !!

Note ; I did suggest to him that if he decided to stay in Thailand he could set up his own Company supplying hotels, food houses , Bars as well as private individuals with computer upgrades, rebuilds, web design and end up making a lot more money than standing behind a bar hoping for a customer to come in !!

[seajae]

had a thai restaurant open up in the main road near usm, all new furniture, very presentable but the thai food was absolute crap as well as the "english" food, My wife couldnt even eat the thai food, after they spent all the money to set it up(I think for their daughter) it folded within 2 weeks as no one would go back or recomend it so even the locals get it wrong.

Actually I love pickled pigs trotters with sourkraut and mustard, yum, like kartofflepuffers(spelling) too, my aussie mates wife is german and could she cook.

Edited May 31, 2014 by seajae

[nithisa78]

have to agree with your last sentence but even as an retirement "hobby" it could bring quiet a decent profit if properly done and you'r not relying/ dependandt on it.

Good English.

[maderaroja]

I have a small cafe as a hobby because I am retired. My cafe is cleaned to a sparkle every day, several times during the day. I have not dirt on the ceiling, the fans are washed and clean, there are no rats or cockroaches on the floor. My prices are higher that the Thai street food vendors because my food is top quality and fresh.

I serve western food because everyone else is serving Thai food.

The margin of profit for the Thai street food is about 2 baht per plate, but the price is super cheap. The food may not be fresh and there may be garbage hanging from the ceiling and there may be rats and cockroaches on the floor.

My experience is that 99% of Thai customers do not want to even try western food; of any sort. 80% of the western customers only want Thai food, but they want to eat it in a clean environment.

My cafe is clean, but only serves western foods. When the western people come to my cafe and ask to Thai food, I point to the street vendors that are plentiful. Of course, you will have to stand up or squat to eat.

Take from this post what you need.

[Pralaad]

Being in this business myself I can only give one advise .

In Thailand .....

Do not open any restaurant if you are not a cook by trade.

Thai chefs are as reliable as a used condom.

All and I do mean all chefs are had were alcoholics, so not showing up is standard.

With the change of chef need to change the menu.

Having your wife do the cooking because you like the taste may sound like a great idea, however if she is not a cook by trade , she would not be able to size the portions or present it .

Bar is little different, have to know how bar operates and way people skim to be able to run it without serving yourself

[raytyson]

I had a very good Lampburger recently in Koh Chang accompanied with french fleas.

I had pukin soup ( pumpkin )

[thrilled]

Your braver than I am.If you can invest ,and if you lose the investment and still be ok then maybe give it A go.

If your using a lot of your money that you would have in retirement you'd better think twice.

Maybe you wouldn't Mind going back to work in your 70's.But I'm going to do everything in my power to keep that from happening

To me.Good Luck.

[Benmart]

It's hard to get excited about German food per se.

I have found that the excitement is in trying something I have never tried before. That way, I can share my first hand experiences with others, be they good or otherwise.

[Benmart]

I have a small cafe as a hobby because I am retired. My cafe is cleaned to a sparkle every day, several times during the day. I have not dirt on the ceiling, the fans are washed and clean, there are no rats or cockroaches on the floor. My prices are higher that the Thai street food vendors because my food is top quality and fresh.

I serve western food because everyone else is serving Thai food.

The margin of profit for the Thai street food is about 2 baht per plate, but the price is super cheap. The food may not be fresh and there may be garbage hanging from the ceiling and there may be rats and cockroaches on the floor.

My experience is that 99% of Thai customers do not want to even try western food; of any sort. 80% of the western customers only want Thai food, but they want to eat it in a clean environment.

My cafe is clean, but only serves western foods. When the western people come to my cafe and ask to Thai food, I point to the street vendors that are plentiful. Of course, you will have to stand up or squat to eat.

Take from this post what you need.

I like your philosophy and business approach. Clean and well run gets my vote over price any day. Thanks for the insight.

[Benmart]

have to agree with your last sentence but even as an retirement "hobby" it could bring quiet a decent profit if properly done and you'r not relying/ dependandt on it.

Good English.

I figured out what he meant.

Thank goodness I'm not the English teacher for the TVF, as I'm hardly qualified.

I realized some years ago, that some people are dyslexic, have poor eyesight, have impairments of the extremities and other conditions that I am fortunate not to have. I try to remember that when I interact with others. I am not perfect and sometimes I stumble.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Benmart

[hellohello123]

I'm a restaurant/Cafe consultsnt as a side business, my dad has been involved in restaurants for over 30 years, but back home and not thailand

So I.know what I'm talking about

For all of those.complaining that their.spelling errors.on the menu, it completely depends on what cycle.the market is,

If.you are the very few .German restauarants in th area or country, spelling errors don't mean squat!

You need.to.target the right market, tourists or long term.Expats or.locals

The first restaurants of.a particular culture need to.get the word out on the cuisine and.to.adapt to.local tastes

You could have Michelin star food but.if.no.body wants to try it then you've going got.fail unless you.have marketing or.celebrity backing

As for.spelling errors, have you ever been to a restaurant in thaialbd and seen poor translations and being offended by it as long as the food was ok????

Unfortunately.food is very subjective and competitive

[Crazy chef 1]

in our small town we don't have decent western restaurants but quiet a large expat population though the demand is there.i've decided to visit him on monday again and offer my help.it is not rocket sience to get things right.will take me about a week for the basics and if needed i'll stay in contact.

[Crazy chef 1]

PS. i think it is better to support each other than the usual bitching...isn'it?

[Pattszero]

PS. i think it is better to support each other than the usual bitching...isn'it?

If it wasn't for the bitching Thaivisa would collapse.

[ableguy]

I had a very good Lampburger recently in Koh Chang accompanied with french fleas.

I recently dined on oysters balls.j

[ableguy]

have to agree with your last sentence but even as an retirement "hobby" it could bring quiet a decent profit if properly done and you'r not relying/ dependandt on it.

Good English.

I figured out what he meant.

Thank goodness I'm not the English teacher for the TVF, as I'm hardly qualified.

I realized some years ago, that some people are dyslexic, have poor eyesight, have impairments of the extremities and other conditions that I am fortunate not to have. I try to remember that when I interact with others. I am not perfect and sometimes I stumble.

You rascal you.

[Suradit69]

If the owner of the restaurant is Swiss and he chose to produce a menu in German to describe/price German food, why could he not write it out properly and/or proofread it to see whether the result was in comprehensible German?

"the english menu didn't made any sense the german description weird"

"when you see the next German students in your restaurant..."

I thought the Swiss functioned pretty well in both French and German. Did he not speak at least some German?

[marko kok prong]

Not so long ago a friend of my son was out on holiday he tapped up with a bar girl and within days they were talking about opening a bar he told me it was the girls idea, the guy I am talking about is an absolute computer wiz 30 something so he is no spring chicken his salary back in the Uk is over 50 k thank goodness he had the sense to,hear me out and did not go ahead with the GFs idea, after a month of releasing his energies he returned back to the Uk and back to his employment !!

Note ; I did suggest to him that if he decided to stay in Thailand he could set up his own Company supplying hotels, food houses , Bars as well as private individuals with computer upgrades, rebuilds, web design and end up making a lot more money than standing behind a bar hoping for a customer to come in !!

Good on you mate,you snatched him from the doors of doom just in time i would say,thankfully for him he listened,just hope he is grateful for what you did,otherwise get him to have a look a tv,or Stickmans readers subs,jeez a sorry lot of blokes on there ,cheers.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Where a lot of people starting out go wrong is by not correctly identifying their target customers. If the owner is say, German and the chef can do German food, great, go for it.

But you have to look further, how many Germans are in the area, how many people would like to try German food and how reliable is that base. You need alternate items on the menu, at least some Thai dishes.

And, as has been said, the biggest mistake of all is not having your menu proof read, with a translation in English (not German unless you are sure of your base) and Thai as a minimum.

(Only using German as an example, same applies for all countries)

G&M Sausages restaurant near BoSang is full of Thais.

They all seem to like his German food.

[ronthai]

After 2 sentences I got bored, to be honest after reading the headline, I got bored but tried.

Do it and get less money in your account.

Come to Thailand and get less money in your account.

Whatever you do, come with a big fortune, if you what a small fortune.

(Unless you are a real business man, which you are not, very clear)

[poweratradio]

I have seen that everywhere: running a bar/restaurant is easy, after all I have been and eaten and drunk in many establishments. And the bucks in the till in the evening are pure profit, my mates come over every night and eat and drink for free, I do not know that there is a painfully low season, I do not know how to cost a menu item, and on and on.

These restaurants and bars have a habit of disappearing very quickly.

Oh, and I have been working in the hospitality business for 30 years and still wouldn't open a restaurant (except as a hobby when I retire), I much rather have a guaranteed salary in my pocket at the end of every month.

90% of restaurants /bars fail their first year and if there is an owner operator then expect 18 hour days, sore feet and alcohol poisoning, bankruptcy and depression.

[Friendly Stranger]

Isn't this like for anything? Know your demographics and style it the way it should for your taste and the area/theme/cuisine.

Having a soft opening is key. This means inviting family, friends and others to come view the place and eat the food and see what the response is like prior to opening for paying guests.

If it's a hole in the wall, nothing wrong with that, then ensure the food is spot on for the area and the nationality you're cooking for. The look of the place is not as important if the main clientele are locals.

It's weird, don't see many Thai places close down but the foreigner run ones do so more frequently.

Sorry meant this response for the OP and not the one before mine.

JMO

Edited May 31, 2014 by Friendly Stranger

[Strangebrew]

It is hard enough running a bar muchless a resturant, In a bar you deal with drunks in a resturant you deal with drunks from the bars, wait same thing oh forget it.

[kinmaew]

i know of a very successful German restaurant in Sukumvit. Food is good last time I was there but its very pricey middle class Thais go there and lots of foreigners. Owner in his 60's and working his ass off every day horrendous hours - Call that a life in LOS? I would rather the income from my home country either rent/investment income and work for someone else in LOS and let them take all the risks.

[chrisinth]

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Quote

I have a small cafe as a hobby because I am retired. My cafe is cleaned to a sparkle every day, several times during the day. I have not dirt on the ceiling, the fans are washed and clean, there are no rats or cockroaches on the floor. My prices are higher that the Thai street food vendors because my food is top quality and fresh.

I serve western food because everyone else is serving Thai food.

The margin of profit for the Thai street food is about 2 baht per plate, but the price is super cheap. The food may not be fresh and there may be garbage hanging from the ceiling and there may be rats and cockroaches on the floor.

My experience is that 99% of Thai customers do not want to even try western food; of any sort. 80% of the western customers only want Thai food, but they want to eat it in a clean environment.

My cafe is clean, but only serves western foods. When the western people come to my cafe and ask to Thai food, I point to the street vendors that are plentiful. Of course, you will have to stand up or squat to eat.

Take from this post what you need.

My friend, your post should be pinned as a prime example of recognizing your customer base (essentially your income). Your statement that you have found that 99% of Thai's don't want to try western food (?) and 80% of westerners want Thai food should be a good indicator, yet you turn away potential customers to the Thai stalls because you are stubborn about your business model for only western food and maintaining a clean, empty restaurant.

NB, Not sure where you are situated, but your experience of customer preference couldn't differ more than mine when in the business..................

[MrBanks]

LUCK

When I started on the path of standing on my own two feet I was lucky enough to have a fabulous mentor. I would look at other people doing the same work as me who always seemed to be able to make money easily, when I was struggling. I said to my mentor, boy those people really have some good luck, why do they do so much better than me? He laughed and said yes they have LUCK and you can get there too:

Labour Under Correct Knowledge.

In other words you have to learn the business that you are in and then be better than all the rest. It really is that simple.

Would you take your car to a chef (who has no engineering or mechanical experience) to have it repaired and serviced? if the answer is no, why then would you expect a mechanic who knows nothing about food, except how to eat it, to suddenly be able to run and operate a restaurant and professional kitchen?

I have no idea what profession your friend was in before he invested in a restaurant (I use the mechanic as an example only), however, it is obvious from your post that he certainly has no experience in catering. It is essential that he goes and learns or face the very real possibility of loosing all his money.

Running your own business can be great fun and very rewarding, when you know what you are doing, equally it can be an incredibly miserable experience if you have not got a clue!

[mishmash]

I've lost count of how many Thai/English menus I have written and have an impressive collection.

Some visitors even "borrow" a menu from some of their favourite stops and include it in their scrapbooks that detail and display memories of their trip to exotic Thailand. That's great!

I've found that many bars/restaurants in touristy areas deliberately misspell menu items. They do this to get a chuckle from imbibers, have their venue talked about (word of mouth being the best advertising) etc. Some are funny, some are obvious. The authentic spelling errors (and there are a lot) generally are found off the beaten track in smaller towns or non-tourist areas. Flied lice always gets a chuckle.

[chrisinth]

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Quote

Quote

Where a lot of people starting out go wrong is by not correctly identifying their target customers. If the owner is say, German and the chef can do German food, great, go for it.

But you have to look further, how many Germans are in the area, how many people would like to try German food and how reliable is that base. You need alternate items on the menu, at least some Thai dishes.

And, as has been said, the biggest mistake of all is not having your menu proof read, with a translation in English (not German unless you are sure of your base) and Thai as a minimum.

(Only using German as an example, same applies for all countries)

G&M Sausages restaurant near BoSang is full of Thais.
They all seem to like his German food.

Sure, I agree, there are some restaurants that make it by word of mouth. The (main) point of my post was to potentially expand the customer base by allowing customers to understand what they are eating and spread the word.

If all the customers relied and trusted the restaurant's choice or recommendations, that's great also, then there would be no need for a menu..........

[chrisinth]

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I've lost count of how many Thai/English menus I have written and have an impressive collection.

Some visitors even "borrow" a menu from some of their favourite stops and include it in their scrapbooks that detail and display memories of their trip to exotic Thailand. That's great!

I've found that many bars/restaurants in touristy areas deliberately misspell menu items. They do this to get a chuckle from imbibers, have their venue talked about (word of mouth being the best advertising) etc. Some are funny, some are obvious. The authentic spelling errors (and there are a lot) generally are found off the beaten track in smaller towns or non-tourist areas. Flied lice always gets a chuckle.

You really believe these are deliberate mistakes?

Welcome to Thailand my friend.....................