"Saving face"

[MonkeyLoo]

Ive been in Thailand for several Months now and have been coming here since 1998.

I really love the country and its people but one thing i have still failed to get my head around is the Thai custom of saving face.

For example, i have seen people blatantly lie and continue to lie even when found out!

It frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. I guess i need to learn how to handle it.

Any suggestions?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CharlieH]

You'll never undestand it, so dont waste time and effort trying.

[Soutpeel]

I guess i need to learn how to handle it.
Any suggestions?

Stay in your own country ?

[MonkeyLoo]

I guess i need to learn how to handle it.

Any suggestions?

Stay in your own country ?

More frustrations in my own country btw.

Im just trying to understand this particular custom.

Must make doing business here very hard.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sirineou]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

[Soutpeel]

Im just trying to understand this particular custom.

and there is the answer dear boy....don't try to understand...

[inutil]

Fortunately im british. We dont play the face game so much, but we do skirt around the flower garden a little. Just learn to be indirect or 'diplomatic' and voila, you understand 'face'. If you still dont understand, spend a month with copies of yes minister/prime minister and watch Sir Humphrey until you get the general gist.

Edited May 31, 2014 by inutil

[Soutpeel]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

In the west we have

"morals", principles, integrity, etc. (for the most part at least one hopes)

In East

There is face (Face is not just Thailand unique)

opposite sides of the same coin me thinks....

[Costas2008]

Nothing difficult to understand.

Just don't hurt a Thai's ego.

There being brought up like that, so it's very difficult to change now.

[inutil]

Face is all over east asia. Its just about being indirect and not attacking the person. Its very very simple. Just think of the person youre talking to as a superior who can cut off your head. Youll quickly find that face not only allows you to keep your head, but also allows you to creatively insult them without either of you losing face in the matter.

[sirineou]

I don't know why you find the concept so hard to understand

Thais are a lot more social than people in the West where one could live in a neighborhood for ten years and not know the people living four houses away

because they are more social their reputation (face) is a lot more important than people in the west.

In the west we have

"morals", principles, integrity, etc. (for the most part at least one hopes)

In East

There is face (Face is not just Thailand unique)

opposite sides of the same coin me thinks....

I think I am either misreading this or you did not express your thought properly because if I understand this correctly, it would be inconsistent with your posting record.

I really don't understand this reply. are you implying that in Thailand they don't have morals, principles, or integrity?

Face, IMO ,is what Erving Goffman first described in his sociological book "The presentation of Self in every day Life" where we have a front stage where the performance is presented to society, and a back stage, where we can be ourselves with close family and friends.

Our Private and Public face, or perception management.

Thai, and for that manner eastern societies are structured differently than western societies , In eastern society privacy is not as prevalent as western societies, thus a need for a greater "Front Stage" thus more a need to control perceptions, and maintain "Face", and little to do with morals or integrity.

This is of course a superficial analysis to a complex subject.

[marko kok prong]

I don't like it but i live here so i go along with it as much as i can,but it does annoy me in as much it is the most important aspect of social intercourse.

[CryWolf]

I saved my face on a photo a few years ago...

Still use it

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[greg71]

Maybe a suggestion is read the other posts relating to the exact same question,there you will find the exact same answers as all previous posts .

[marko kok prong]

Also the 'have to care for the parents,because they gave me life" regardless of wether they were good parents,after the act ,really annoys me,my wife's father treated her like shit,from what she tells me yet now he lives in our family compound[outside the house itself] and has been given a new motorbike,is waited on hand and foot,with no thank you i have ever heard,he looks at me like i am some alien from another planet,never rarely replies to my greetings,i would like to kick the old C#$@ up the backside,but of course i don't,but some days i get angry,and think what would these peasants do if i walk,of course it would make no difference,sometimes i hate them.

[wow64]

I have only found white lying..such as at work. If I ask do you understand? They will never say no or in a meeting no- one will ever ask a question for fear of loosing face.

Its a bit weird sometimes.... Its just how it is.

Comes in handy when arguing point... I never loose lol.

Sent from my c64

[wow64]

Business idea paint a face on some rocks and sell them for 1000b.. Instructions: Carry the face all the time and you will never loose face again.

Sent from my c64

[MonkeyLoo]

Thanks for the posts all.

Im non the wiser really.

Just have to accept it as there way of avoiding conflict.

The white lies are not malicous just silly IMO.

Budhism allows a lie apparently if it means the party does not get hurt.

If we were all like this, having no backbone to tell things as they are, where would we be?!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AlexRRR]

Happens the world over mate...just a little more in Asia.

[pigeonjake]

Fortunately im british. We dont play the face game so much, but we do skirt around the flower garden a little. Just learn to be indirect or 'diplomatic' and voila, you understand 'face'. If you still dont understand, spend a month with copies of yes minister/prime minister and watch Sir Humphrey until you get the general gist.

im a brit too,

but im not sure i agree with this,

you live in a street, go buy a new car, i bet there would bo some down that street go and get a new car even if it skint them or on tick, just to show face, like we can afford one too,

i used to call it keeping up with the johnes,

ive seen it mant times, new conservetory,,, next door get one,,,

its all face

[hellohello123]

Unfortunately face is a part of asia

I find face to be a unnecessary layer of nothing, that makes a simple situation more complex and unproductive, especially in disputes

Eg complaining about bad service, telling people off, correcting people when they do wrong, being the cause of fights etc. etc.

[MonkeyLoo]

Unfortunately face is a part of asia

I find face to be a unnecessary layer of nothing, that makes a simple situation more complex and unproductive, especially in disputes

Eg complaining about bad service, telling people off, correcting people when they do wrong, being the cause of fights etc. etc.

Indeed. Seems like you cant have a dispute here. Its brushed under the carpet with a smile ;-)

Then we cough and move on.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Datebayo]

You are not Asian, you are not supossed to understand it fully.

[MonkeyLoo]

You are not Asian, you are not supossed to understand it fully.

No harm in trying mate...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[benalibina]

A thai guy told me once.....saving face in itself is ok.....the consequences however can be disasterous for some....selfdestruction....add to this the lack of correction and confrontation......in a hierarchic society....

[MAJIC]

Saving Face! IMO is the inability to face up to ones faults, and truth and reality,obviously covered up by denial,broadly accepted as normal behaviour!

[expatsupreme]

But thais have such a big boiling point. You can scream at them and they will always smile back and be polite. But when you come in Thai only part of BKK, you better watch out, but havent experienced this anyways. The boiling point of Thais is really really high, so you can really really make them angry till they explode. I remember only one Thai was angry at me, fitness instructor in the BKK, where not many falangs were around. He said to take my clothes off in the jacuzzi and I did not want to . Then he wanted to boot me out of the fitness but I started to scream at him, so we exchanged some words. But nothing more....

But you have to be carefull if you get into altercation with Thai, another Thai or several of them might step in, I have heard such stories in safest place on earth Pattaya.

[I Like Thai]

Lose the need to be always right and lose the need to always have to show that you are right.

[benalibina]

But thais have such a big boiling point. You can scream at them and they will always smile back and be polite. But when you come in Thai only part of BKK, you better watch out, but havent experienced this anyways. The boiling point of Thais is really really high, so you can really really make them angry till they explode. I remember only one Thai was angry at me, fitness instructor in the BKK, where not many falangs were around. He said to take my clothes off in the jacuzzi and I did not want to . Then he wanted to boot me out of the fitness but I started to scream at him, so we exchanged some words. But nothing more....

But you have to be carefull if you get into altercation with Thai, another Thai or several of them might step in, I have heard such stories in safest place on earth Pattaya.

Good to read that you were not tempted to loose your virginity in the jacuzzi.

[hellohello123]

Saving Face! IMO is the inability to face up to ones faults, and truth and reality,obviously covered up by denial,broadly accepted as normal behaviour!

Add to that the excuse of face to not accept your consequences and to behave against logic or respect while trying (successfully or not) to justify it