Warning of highly addictive 'yaba'

[hyperdimension]

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Dimethylamphetamine is a group.

See link of Jeremy again : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

If you check the 'chapter/folder' stimulants you will find a large variety of core agents.

You wil find the following agent : 4MA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Methylamphetamine

4-MA:

and

N,N-DMA:

are different chemical compounds.

Both have the same molecular elements (C+H+N) and same nitrogen structure.

Differentiation is only existing in carbon an hydrogen elements.

So both have different atomic numbers, read relative additives, but they are the same product.

They will taste, smell and look different but they are made from the same core substances.

Just because different chemical compounds contain the same elements, it doesn't mean that they will have very similar properties. Different chemical structures (atoms held together by chemical bonds) result in different properties (for drugs in particular, different pharmacological effects). Your statement "they are the same product" is false. 4-MA has a methyl group hanging off the main ring, whereas N,N-DMA has 2 methyl groups hanging off the nitrogen atom (which is why it's called "dimethylamphetamine"). Such a difference in the chemical structure can produce different effects in the human body when consumed. These chemical compounds aren't simply created by physically mixing carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen like a cocktail in a container.

Edited June 2, 2014 by hyperdimension

[Ulysses G.]

I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

The report you saw was heroin mixed with meth, which would be much more physically addictive eventually, but it would still take at least a few weeks of constant use and probably more like months. Nothing is physically addicting after two tries other than - as you mentioned - perhaps good hot poontang. The OP is complete nonsense.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[rabas]

What I see is a few studies that say MA and DMA are quite different because the dimethylamphetamine analog does not cause serious or lasting damage the serotonergic neurons, but that MA does, quite a bit. One of these studies compared the two compounds at equivalent behavioral dosages and found the same conclusion. So, maybe the DMA derivative allows higher levels of serotonin, especially in the presence of other drugs. There is also no mention of how much of the drugs are in the new yaba pills. I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine (N,N-DMA), a controlled substance analog that has recently appeared on the illicit drug market, and compare it to that of methamphetamine, a structurally related drug with known dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxic activity. Like methamphetamine, N,N-DMA induced degeneration of nerve terminals in the mouse striatum, but did not produce cell loss in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra. The dopamine-depleting effects of N,N-DMA were approximately one-eighth of those of methamphetamine. Assessment of N,N-DMA's effects on serotonergic neurons showed that it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain. By contrast, equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%. These results indicate that N,N-DMA, the N-methylated analog of methamphetamine, is considerably less potent than its parent compound both as a dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxin, and raise the question of whether or not it may be possible to dissociate the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine from its reinforcing actions by means of N-methylation. Safety of N,N-DMA in humans remains to be investigated.

I saw that too, here's the link: Evaluation of the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine: an illicit analog of methamphetamine. Notice the parts "it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain" and "equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%". Depletion is the result of release of serotonin which is what causes euphoria. So based on this research, methamphetamine releases far more serotonin than dimethylamphetamine, which completely contradicts Thorgal's statement "Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine."

Yes, so combine the DMA with the 4-MA that Thorgal is talking about and you may have a very potent mix. Maybe the DMA is really used to get an optimum effect mix for desired market conditions. They do need lasting customers.

Why is anyone even talking about 4-MA? It was never mentioned in the original news article and is a different chemical compound to dimethylamphetamine, therefore has different effects and safety level. It was wrong for Thorgal to even bring 4-MA into the conversation.

Well, I followed Thorgal's lead because it's the only thing that made sense of the article. The authorities do seem quite worried about a new potent version of yaba in this article. Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack, thus yaba laced with DMA would be N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. Which would not seem too horrible of a mix. 4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix and also explain the reason for the extra DMA, as a way to control the strong serotonin effects of the 4-MA. Want less serotonin effect, increase the DMA. Don't know if it is right, but either Thorgal is right or we just designed our own.

Edited June 2, 2014 by rabas

[Ulysses G.]

Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack

Crack has nothing to do with methamphetamine. Crack is made from cocaine and is a completely different substance. You Thai Visa "scientists" really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to illegal drugs.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[meom]

Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack

Crack has nothing to do with methamphetamine. Crack is made from cocaine and is a completely different substance. You Thai Visa "scientists" really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to illegal drugs.

LOL.

Except when you heat up crystal meth in the glass pipe.

If it cracks back alright you know you got good gear.

[Thorgal]

I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

The report you saw was heroin mixed with meth, which would be much more physically addictive eventually, but it would still take at least a few weeks of constant use and probably more like months. Nothing is physically addicting after two tries other than - as you mentioned - perhaps good hot poontang. The OP is complete nonsense.

"Most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues.

People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction.

Since these psychologically based addictions are not based on drug or brain effects, they can account for why people frequently switch addictive actions from one drug to a completely different kind of drug, or even to a non-drug behavior."

Source : http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

You should better leave completely chemistry, biochemistry and neurobiology and give a new try to psychology...

The OP is not completely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshit

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[JeremyBowskill]

I would hang up all the drug dealers as well as I can without any deeper thoughts. Just do it.

Who are you gonna assign to go up to the HQ of Seagrams, Johnny Walker, Chivas, and Pfitzer, knock on their thick oak doors, and haul 'em off to be hung? Then you gotta go round up all the corner store drug dealers and their spouses. You would have fit in great when Thaksin was compelling his underlings to capture and kill supposed drug dealers in Thailand. Extrajudicial murders? Mai pen f'ckin' rai.

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic, I wouldn't take 2 of these (or any yaba pill) for a million dollars a pill. I would rather trap my nuts in a revolving door!

You're assessing each drug from how DEA, Thai law-enforcement and liquor corporations want you to see it. It's like judging whether you like non-conformist sex, by lapping up what some Muslim clerics pontificate about it.

I am assessing each drug from my own point of view of living in each country for more than a decade each, The DEA means nothing to me as I'm English snf hsvr no idea what they say,

[Thorgal]

I would hang up all the drug dealers as well as I can without any deeper thoughts. Just do it.

Who are you gonna assign to go up to the HQ of Seagrams, Johnny Walker, Chivas, and Pfitzer, knock on their thick oak doors, and haul 'em off to be hung? Then you gotta go round up all the corner store drug dealers and their spouses. You would have fit in great when Thaksin was compelling his underlings to capture and kill supposed drug dealers in Thailand. Extrajudicial murders? Mai pen f'ckin' rai.

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic, I wouldn't take 2 of these (or any yaba pill) for a million dollars a pill. I would rather trap my nuts in a revolving door!

You're assessing each drug from how DEA, Thai law-enforcement and liquor corporations want you to see it. It's like judging whether you like non-conformist sex, by lapping up what some Muslim clerics pontificate about it.

I am assessing each drug from my own point of view of living in each country for more than a decade each, The DEA means nothing to me as I'm English snf hsvr no idea what they say,

It's not really a point of view of living. No need to google it.

Your assessment and 'making a living' looks like a strange cocktail to me. I won't drink it.

There will obviously always be a thin line between money and legality...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/730210-british-man-falls-to-his-death-at-pattaya-hilton-hotel/

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[partington]

"Most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues.

People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction.

Source : http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

Pol Col Panacharat Waratapong warned citizens today of a dangerous new line of handbags that have come on sale recently in Thailand.

He cautioned that buying as little as two of these handbags is enough to cause profound and damaging shopping addiction. He also stated that if these were acquired by Visa or other forms of credit, purchasers could literally take leave of their senses, and become obsessive or delusional. "We are rushing to look into these handbags" he stated firmly.

Furthermore he denied that using the same word, "addiction", to describe both physical dependency and merely something you quite like doing, deprives the term of any significant meaning, and that vast areas of "psychology" are not experimentally validated science, just a collection of faith-based opinions like astrology or Freudian analysis.

[JeremyBowskill]

Thorgal.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean........ Guess somehow, in some way its linked to me owning a pub before but god knows how. To be fair from your posts of calling me a drug dealer and then later a user on a learning curve, you wouldn't have been welcome in my boozer to drink any cocktail anyhow. You would have been shown the door quick smart.

Always have had a low tolerance for argumentative people looking to start trouble for no reason.

Edited June 2, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[Seastallion]

Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Counter-intuitive it may be, and I agree with you there, I think (not state as fact) that it is common sense to err on the side of caution.

Despite your wishful thinking and apparent street-level knowledge of illegal drugs, in chemistry there are many instances where "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts". Ever tried fusing two hydrogen atoms...they are really really really small, and individually quite harmless, but get some fusion going.....

Your stance of, "Nobody has proved it so don't worry about it, it MUST be weaker" is not what many people would call "common sense" when involving a potentially and allegedly lethal drug.

No matter how many times you repeat it.

And there I leave this discussion It's no fun debating with people who have little common sense and who do not have the grace, honesty or logic to concede any point.

[boomerangutang]

I would hang up all the drug dealers as well as I can without any deeper thoughts. Just do it.

Who are you gonna assign to go up to the HQ of Seagrams, Johnny Walker, Chivas, and Pfitzer, knock on their thick oak doors, and haul 'em off to be hung? Then you gotta go round up all the corner store drug dealers and their spouses. You would have fit in great when Thaksin was compelling his underlings to capture and kill supposed drug dealers in Thailand. Extrajudicial murders? Mai pen f'ckin' rai.

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic, I wouldn't take 2 of these (or any yaba pill) for a million dollars a pill. I would rather trap my nuts in a revolving door!

You're assessing each drug from how DEA, Thai law-enforcement and liquor corporations want you to see it. It's like judging whether you like non-conformist sex, by lapping up what some Muslim clerics pontificate about it.

I am assessing each drug from my own point of view of living in each country for more than a decade each, The DEA means nothing to me as I'm English snf hsvr no idea what they say,

US's DEA is quite influential, so their edicts affect 100's of millions of people worldwide. DEA spends billions of $$'s to influence people like the person who made the claims in the OP article.

DEA is like Thaksin in tht way: It can get its opinions fixed in many peoples' minds, by pure power of spending lots of campaign money. If I had a budget of $5 million/day, I could enact campaigns to get my opinions spread around, if I so chose. Part of the DEA's policy is to continue to classify hemp as a class 5 drug ....go figure.

Another aspect is its 100 billion dollar War on Drugs, and look at how successful that's been. The whole time (45 years?) the 'War on Drugs' has been policy, Colombian drug lords have been getting richer by the month. Thaksin did his copy version, in cohoots with his buddy, George W. Bush, and 2,000 Thai families lost at least one member, extrajudicially, in a matter of weeks.

[JeremyBowskill]

Boomer.

Which is why I never take an article at face value and research what little facts they give. I don't rely on the media for information or governments but do listen to general talk from other sources.

[JeremyBowskill]

Well I cannot find any evidence anywhere that combining methamphetamine and dimethyl amphetamine produces a super drug. Either this is the latest greatest version, which this copper found and had tested in lest than a few weeks, or quiet simply the article is merely propaganda. Don't know how long it takes to get reports back from labs in Thailand but in the UK it takes months, also how would the "2 pills and you are an addict" be proved in a few weeks? Maybe they were boshing them down rats necks as soon as the bust was made......... all seems to short a time frame for all this to have taken place.

Someone please provide a link where it says anywhere else, that combining these to chems makes a super chem and I will eat my words.

Edited June 3, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[boomerangutang]

Well I cannot find any evidence anywhere that combining methamphetamine and dimethyl amphetamine produces a super drug. Either this is the latest greatest version, which this copper found and had tested in lest than a few weeks, or quiet simply the article is merely propaganda. Don't know how long it takes to get reports back from labs in Thailand but in the UK it takes months, also how would the "2 pills and you are an addict" be proved in a few weeks? Maybe they were boshing them down rats necks as soon as the bust was made......... all seems to short a time frame for all this to have taken place.

Someone please provide a link where it says anywhere else, that combining these to chems makes a super chem and I will eat my words.

The police authority who made the claims is a product of a school system of rote learning and a career peppered with pay-for-promotions. Scientific method and objective research plays no part in his statements.

[robblok]

"Most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues.

People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction.

Source : http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

Pol Col Panacharat Waratapong warned citizens today of a dangerous new line of handbags that have come on sale recently in Thailand.

He cautioned that buying as little as two of these handbags is enough to cause profound and damaging shopping addiction. He also stated that if these were acquired by Visa or other forms of credit, purchasers could literally take leave of their senses, and become obsessive or delusional. "We are rushing to look into these handbags" he stated firmly.

Furthermore he denied that using the same word, "addiction", to describe both physical dependency and merely something you quite like doing, deprives the term of any significant meaning, and that vast areas of "psychology" are not experimentally validated science, just a collection of faith-based opinions like astrology or Freudian analysis.

Its better to give up.. you have gone at it from a scientist point of view.. they wont believe it.

I have gone after it as someone who has used drugs they also wont believe it.

They never really investigated it themselves, just copy the scaremongering of governments and the DEA.

Anti drug people will never take logic into account or even science. If you snort cocaine your an addict right away, not knowing many bankers use it on a night out. If you do XTC your an addict.. not knowing that many people (me too) used it to party at times while not overusing it and having a normal life and a job next to it (though I stopped as it reduced clearness in my mind because of lack of sleep after the weekends). If you do pot (oh not that one that myth has died now).

Then forgetting about alcohol.. that causes many fights and spousal abuse not to mention that for some it really damages their body. While on the other hand there are people that can drink without problems.. but they don't accept you can do that with other drugs too.

[hyperdimension]

Why is anyone even talking about 4-MA? It was never mentioned in the original news article and is a different chemical compound to dimethylamphetamine, therefore has different effects and safety level. It was wrong for Thorgal to even bring 4-MA into the conversation.

Well, I followed Thorgal's lead because it's the only thing that made sense of the article. The authorities do seem quite worried about a new potent version of yaba in this article. Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack, thus yaba laced with DMA would be N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. Which would not seem too horrible of a mix.

Yes, the original news article is describing N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine, and you are most likely correct in saying that it "would not seem too horrible of a mix".

4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix

Yes, but there is no mention of 4-methylamphetamine in the original news article. 4-methylamphetamine is a different chemical compound to N-methylamphetamine. Note that the "N" does not refer to "number" as some may think. It is used in naming amines (R-NH₂) and amides (R-CO-NH₂) and signifies that the substitutent is connected to the nitrogen (which has symbol N).

4-methylamphetamine has a methyl group (R-CH₃) hanging off the 4th position of the phenyl ring, whereas N-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the nitrogen atom.

Similar to 4-methylamphetamine, 2-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 2nd position of the phenyl ring, and 3-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 3rd position of the phenyl ring. These are also different to N-methylamphetamine.

and also explain the reason for the extra DMA, as a way to control the strong serotonin effects of the 4-MA. Want less serotonin effect, increase the DMA. Don't know if it is right, but either Thorgal is right or we just designed our own.

It doesn't explain it. Why would you want less "serotonin effect"? The more serotonin released, the more euphoria and therefore the more enjoyable.

I think the best explanation of the existence of the N,N-DMA is that it is an unintended byproduct of imperfect methamphetamine manufacture. It is a relief that it is not as toxic as the methamphetamine itself. This can lead to the question - have there been any batches from other producers that have had byproducts that are quite toxic? It is certainly possible if the manufacturers have little quality control or are amateurs (what can you expect from underground laboratories?).

If the drugs were manufactured by legal pharmaceutical companies who are required to comply with strict quality control procedures, then the end products would be much safer to consume.

Edited June 3, 2014 by hyperdimension

[ATF]

Ya ba was originally Ya ma (horse drug) it was fed to race horses in Thailand to put a little extra pep in them. I remember going to the stadium and I was told to always bet on the horse foaming at the mouth with a rabid look in it's eyes.

After over the counter speed was banned truck drivers started taking Ya ma and it filtered down through society. It was then put into full production in Burma after the Thai army destroyed all the poppy fields in Thailand and Khun Sa was forced to relinquish his heroin empire.

The Ya ba that followed was a very potent drug and there were always stories on the TV and in the newspaper about people killing themselves and others and going completely psycho.

Whatever this new form is I doubt if it can match the carnage of the original.

[boomerangutang]

They never really investigated it themselves, just copy the scaremongering of governments and the DEA.

Anti drug people will never take logic into account or even science. If you snort cocaine your an addict right away, not knowing many bankers use it on a night out. If you do XTC your an addict.. not knowing that many people (me too) used it to party at times while not overusing it and having a normal life and a job next to it (though I stopped as it reduced clearness in my mind because of lack of sleep after the weekends). If you do pot (oh not that one that myth has died now).

Well said, and right along the lines of what I've been saying. Using the DEA as your guide for drugs (what's good, what's bad) is like using an angry Muslim preacher (who has never been to Thailand) for your guide to Pattaya's Walking Street.

[rabas]

Well, I followed Thorgal's lead because it's the only thing that made sense of the article. The authorities do seem quite worried about a new potent version of yaba in this article. Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack, thus yaba laced with DMA would be N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. Which would not seem too horrible of a mix.

Yes, the original news article is describing N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine, and you are most likely correct in saying that it "would not seem too horrible of a mix".

4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix

Yes, but there is no mention of 4-methylamphetamine in the original news article. 4-methylamphetamine is a different chemical compound to N-methylamphetamine. Note that the "N" does not refer to "number" as some may think. It is used in naming amines (R-NH₂) and amides (R-CO-NH₂) and signifies that the substitutent is connected to the nitrogen (which has symbol N).

4-methylamphetamine has a methyl group (R-CH₃) hanging off the 4th position of the phenyl ring, whereas N-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the nitrogen atom.

Similar to 4-methylamphetamine, 2-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 2nd position of the phenyl ring, and 3-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 3rd position of the phenyl ring. These are also different to N-methylamphetamine.

and also explain the reason for the extra DMA, as a way to control the strong serotonin effects of the 4-MA. Want less serotonin effect, increase the DMA. Don't know if it is right, but either Thorgal is right or we just designed our own.

It doesn't explain it. Why would you want less "serotonin effect"? The more serotonin released, the more euphoria and therefore the more enjoyable.

I think the best explanation of the existence of the N,N-DMA is that it is an unintended byproduct of imperfect methamphetamine manufacture. It is a relief that it is not as toxic as the methamphetamine itself. This can lead to the question - have there been any batches from other producers that have had byproducts that are quite toxic? It is certainly possible if the manufacturers have little quality control or are amateurs (what can you expect from underground laboratories?).

If the drugs were manufactured by legal pharmaceutical companies who are required to comply with strict quality control procedures, then the end products would be much safer to consume.

What you say is right of course. I was speculating on how to make sense of the report since news agencies often garble technical information. Outside of Thorgal, nothing suggests 4-MA in the mix. I was pointing out the name similarities between 4-methyl and N-methyl amphetamines, which are in fact isomers, as a potential source for incorrect reporting. Yes, chemically they are different drugs with different properties. I know organic nomenclature quite well, though others may not, and even that all these compounds have stereo isomers based on the alpha phenethylamine position, amphetamine being alpha-methylphenethylamine, or even 1-phenyl-2-amino-propane.

There is still no good link between the presence of the N,N-DMA and a new super strong yaba variety. 4_MA is showing up in many places in Europe. But I guess we wait for a Thai chemical analysis, I hope they do not use something like their Thai bomb sniffers.

[meom]

Why is anyone even talking about 4-MA? It was never mentioned in the original news article and is a different chemical compound to dimethylamphetamine, therefore has different effects and safety level. It was wrong for Thorgal to even bring 4-MA into the conversation.

Well, I followed Thorgal's lead because it's the only thing that made sense of the article. The authorities do seem quite worried about a new potent version of yaba in this article. Yaba is traditionally based on methamphetamine which is N-methylamphetamine or crack, thus yaba laced with DMA would be N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. Which would not seem too horrible of a mix.

Yes, the original news article is describing N-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine, and you are most likely correct in saying that it "would not seem too horrible of a mix".

4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix

It doesn't explain it. Why would you want less "serotonin effect"? The more serotonin released, the more euphoria and therefore the more enjoyable.

How would you describe euphoria?

In my experience there's quite some ifference between for example the euphoria you get from xtc and the euphoria you get from crystal meth.

With xtc the euhoria is more psychological and makes you belong to something while with meth the euphoria is much more physical and less psychogical.

AFAIK the diference is caused because xtc works more on serotonin while meth releases much more dopamine in comparison to serotonin.

Anyway drugs work different for different people.

[hyperdimension]

4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix

Yes, but there is no mention of 4-methylamphetamine in the original news article. 4-methylamphetamine is a different chemical compound to N-methylamphetamine. Note that the "N" does not refer to "number" as some may think. It is used in naming amines (R-NH₂) and amides (R-CO-NH₂) and signifies that the substitutent is connected to the nitrogen (which has symbol N).

4-methylamphetamine has a methyl group (R-CH₃) hanging off the 4th position of the phenyl ring, whereas N-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the nitrogen atom.

Similar to 4-methylamphetamine, 2-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 2nd position of the phenyl ring, and 3-methylamphetamine has the methyl group hanging off the 3rd position of the phenyl ring. These are also different to N-methylamphetamine.

and also explain the reason for the extra DMA, as a way to control the strong serotonin effects of the 4-MA. Want less serotonin effect, increase the DMA. Don't know if it is right, but either Thorgal is right or we just designed our own.

It doesn't explain it. Why would you want less "serotonin effect"? The more serotonin released, the more euphoria and therefore the more enjoyable.

I think the best explanation of the existence of the N,N-DMA is that it is an unintended byproduct of imperfect methamphetamine manufacture. It is a relief that it is not as toxic as the methamphetamine itself. This can lead to the question - have there been any batches from other producers that have had byproducts that are quite toxic? It is certainly possible if the manufacturers have little quality control or are amateurs (what can you expect from underground laboratories?).

If the drugs were manufactured by legal pharmaceutical companies who are required to comply with strict quality control procedures, then the end products would be much safer to consume.

What you say is right of course. I was speculating on how to make sense of the report since news agencies often garble technical information. Outside of Thorgal, nothing suggests 4-MA in the mix. I was pointing out the name similarities between 4-methyl and N-methyl amphetamines, which are in fact isomers, as a potential source for incorrect reporting. Yes, chemically they are different drugs with different properties. I know organic nomenclature quite well, though others may not, and even that all these compounds have stereo isomers based on the alpha phenethylamine position, amphetamine being alpha-methylphenethylamine, or even 1-phenyl-2-amino-propane.

There is still no good link between the presence of the N,N-DMA and a new super strong yaba variety. 4_MA is showing up in many places in Europe. But I guess we wait for a Thai chemical analysis, I hope they do not use something like their Thai bomb sniffers.

I did see a news report about these "SU" pills on Thai television and it showed chemical analyses equipment and results, and a representative talking about it. So I assume that the police's announcement that the pills contain N,N-DMA was from such analysis. I'm not sure how often confiscated pills are analyzed, but it should be done every time, instead of assuming that every batch of confiscated pills is Yaba. We hardly ever hear of seizures of MDMA pills do we?

It seems though that the police took the results and did a major unscientific extrapolation by stating that these "SU" pills are a newly-designed super-addictive and dangerous drug cocktail.

[Thorgal]

"Most addictive behavior is not related to either physical tolerance or exposure to cues.

People compulsively use drugs, gamble, or shop nearly always in reaction to being emotionally stressed, whether or not they have a physical addiction.

Source : http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

Pol Col Panacharat Waratapong warned citizens today of a dangerous new line of handbags that have come on sale recently in Thailand.

He cautioned that buying as little as two of these handbags is enough to cause profound and damaging shopping addiction. He also stated that if these were acquired by Visa or other forms of credit, purchasers could literally take leave of their senses, and become obsessive or delusional. "We are rushing to look into these handbags" he stated firmly.

Furthermore he denied that using the same word, "addiction", to describe both physical dependency and merely something you quite like doing, deprives the term of any significant meaning, and that vast areas of "psychology" are not experimentally validated science, just a collection of faith-based opinions like astrology or Freudian analysis.

Thai critiques of consumer culture have often called on psychoanalytic theory to explain the psychology of consumption and commodity fetishism.

However, Pol Col Panacharat Waratapong engages his department with a different aspect of the Freudianism-consumerism nexus, namely, against the use of psychoanalytic theory by market researchers and advertisers themselves to construct their campaigns, design their commodities, interpellate consumers, and influence their behavior through the mass media in ways they conceived of as “social engineering.”

DMA, Celexa and Lexapro and many other prohibited drugs were used to promote the sale of the new line of handbags.

http://fr.eonline.com/news/368404/mary-kate-and-ashley-olsen-s-drug-covered-55-000-handbag-see-it-now

[hyperdimension]

4-MA is 4-methylamphetamine so the mix Thorgal mentions would be 4-methylamphetamine + N-N-dimethylamphetamine. That would be a powerful mix

It doesn't explain it. Why would you want less "serotonin effect"? The more serotonin released, the more euphoria and therefore the more enjoyable.

How would you describe euphoria?

In my experience there's quite some ifference between for example the euphoria you get from xtc and the euphoria you get from crystal meth.

With xtc the euhoria is more psychological and makes you belong to something while with meth the euphoria is much more physical and less psychogical.

AFAIK the diference is caused because xtc works more on serotonin while meth releases much more dopamine in comparison to serotonin.

Both serotonin and dopamine can result in euphoria, but they are different kinds of euphoria. The euphoria that results from consumption of methamphetamine doesn't reach the "spiritual" levels of euphoria that results from consumption of MDMA. I think it is because MDMA affects much more on the serotonergic system than the dopaminergic system, whereas methamphetamine is the other way around. Sense of emotional well-being and empathy are more to do with serotonin whereas pleasure, feeling powerful and confident have more to do with dopamine. Some people prefer the spiritual-like euphoria of MDMA and are disappointed when they try methamphetamine or cocaine as there are no "magical" or "loved-up" feelings due to much lower levels of serotonin release.

[boomerangutang]

Some of the above commentaries are the sorts of 'first-person' reports that aren't factored in, when government officials enact edicts criminalizing drugs.

It's easier for officials to deal with black and white scenarios. From their perspective, there is the but one legal recreational drug, alcohol (which they don't even want to call 'a drug'). Alcoholic drinks, in their view, are mostly benign and are good for socializing and for seducing chicks. But alcohol has some drawbacks if a person becomes a drunk.

On the other side, are all other recreational drugs. They're all bad bad bad and addictive. Anyone caught with even a little bit - is a hard core user and probably an active criminal. Either way, law-enforcement will criminalize them, if they aren't already hardened criminals. Malaysia, Singapore, and most other SE Asian countries will want to literally kill anyone with even a small amount. Excuses and reason don't amount to a hill of beans. DEA money going to authorities' bank accounts, however, is very appreciated. Thanks DEA, for contributing to the deaths of hundreds of young folks whose biggest mistake was carrying a bit of drugs from one country to another.

[banglassie]

Just as stupid as the "Kids now use a combo of Sweet carbonated drinks like red fanta or coke with Tramadol, the combination makes the medicine act as a narcotic"...
Tramadol is perfectly addictive by it's own, no "carbonated sugar bomb" needed... but since the description pfizer (or was it roche?) gave was that is was a non-addictive alternative to other pain medicines.. Well.. Turned out they where wrong again.. Not only addictive as an opioid, but also as an SNRI which may have been the bigger problem for some people... Anti-depression meds are not harmless just because they have no recreational value, they still cause addiction...
Next on the list? Super "harmless" Lyrica I assure you...

[boomerangutang]

More fatalities (and probably more harm) are tied in with pharma drugs than all illegal drugs combined.