Rice scheme probe now more important than ever: Thai opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Rice scheme probe now more important than ever
The Nation

Investigators must prove how the populist programme is corrupted

BANGKOK: -- The military coup has led to many things, and one of them is the Finance Ministry's "admission" that the rice pledging scheme had inflicted the state with a Bt500 billion loss. Many people have been curious why such a staggering figure had not been officially announced before.

As always, theories toe the ideological lines. It could have been a "conspiracy" to frame the ousted government, or the "democratic" administration held desperately onto power because it was sitting on one major scandal.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission will still need time before filing criminal charges against ex-prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra. Having indicted her for allegedly allowing graft to plague the populist programme, the NACC is now on an arguably more sensitive phase of the case.

Seeking her impeachment is one thing; criminalising her acts which could land her in jail in quite another.

The rice pledging case has stunk from the very beginning, with warnings coming from even staunch backers of the Yingluck administration. But the case has also become politicised, featuring in the anti-government campaign that has led to a House dissolution, nullification of a general election and finally the coup. Even the government's failure to pay farmers who sold their rice to the authorities at inflated prices has become controversial, with polarised Thais finding culprits in accordance with their political leanings.

Corruption is known to have loomed over the rice scheme and prominent figures like Pridiyathorn Devakula and Virabongsa Ramangkula had seriously warned about the problem. Having said that, the NACC must come up with strong evidence if criminal proceedings are to begin against Yingluck. In seeking impeachment, the NACC can get the benefit of the doubt. In charging her with corruption, the proof must be beyond reasonable doubt.

While Thailand's political crisis has revolved around charges of corruption, the "big fish" have rarely been caught. Charges of "insufficient proof" have often been used by one side, or the camp led by Thaksin Shinawatra to be exact. While many corruption cases are understandably sophisticated _ like state decisions benefiting some politically-connected businesses and not the others _ money trails related to the rice scheme are said to be relatively easier to track. The burden of proof is on the NACC.

If Yingluck allowed corruption to take place under her nose, subjecting her to impeachment is fair. If she was involved in corruption, the NACC has to prove it. An example was set one day before Yingluck's indictment. The Constitution Court, in a detailed ruling, described how and why Thawil Pliensri was removed as secretary-general of the National Security Council. The ruling left no doubt that his removal was a case of nepotism that totally ignored national interests.

The Constitution Court's watertight ruling embittered supporters of the Pheu Thai Party but there was not much they could do about it. This is in spite of the fact that nepotism and democratic "mandate" are sometimes separated by a very thin line. The NACC has to follow the court's example in solving a jigsaw puzzle for the public. A criminal proceeding against Yingluck, if it's to take place, must be based on a solid "how" she was "involved" in irregularities.

The next challenge for the NACC is to make it a habit. Corruption in Thailand encompasses political parties and the NACC's work must reflect that. Fighting corruption can be the loneliest job on earth but the NACC must have been thankful to the political backdrop against which the rice scheme case was building. The "real fight" will be when the NACC has virtually nobody on its side.

And if it can carry on that fight, maybe Thailand can see light at the end of the tunnel.


-- The Nation 2014-06-02

[waza]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

[Emptyset]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Pretty sure the current money is included in the figure which is only an estimate. Pridiyathorn's estimate is 460 billion, whilst a subcommitee under the last govt estimated the losses from the first three pledging schemes at 332 billion. So if you add in the two more since then, 500 or so seems about right. However, it's possible some of that will be recouped after current stocks are sold, not sure if the estimates are taking that into account or not.

By the way the president of the PWO says that the "missing rice" isn't actually missing, it was just undocumented at the time due to it being milled. Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt now though because there are those who will want to exaggerate the scale of the losses, and there are also those with reputations to defend (presumably the latter with be transferred quite quickly though).

[Stradavarius37]

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Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Pretty sure the current money is included in the figure which is only an estimate. Pridiyathorn's estimate is 460 billion, whilst a subcommitee under the last govt estimated the losses from the first three pledging schemes at 332 billion. So if you add in the two more since then, 500 or so seems about right. However, it's possible some of that will be recouped after current stocks are sold, not sure if the estimates are taking that into account or not.

By the way the president of the PWO says that the "missing rice" isn't actually missing, it was just undocumented at the time due to it being milled. Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt now though because there are those who will want to exaggerate the scale of the losses, and there are also those with reputations to defend (presumably the latter with be transferred quite quickly though).

But with the character and quality of the folks running the rice scheme - reported losses to me actually seem "under" the mark.

[Bakseeda]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Waza.... it sure was and is NOT the coup government which created the debt burden...it was the "legally" elected goverment of the Shinewatras ...get your facts right..!

[shirtless]

I am sure the truth will come out but this needs a real investigation,

[stickyrice2000]

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

[NongKhaiKid]

Take the time and do a full and thorough enquiry and place blame and guilt exactly.where they should go not just a few sacrificial lambs.

If this goes all the way to the top so be it and it might just set a nice precedent for the future.

I should also add that when the guilty get weighed off for this the punishment should fit the seriousness of the crime and not be the all too familiar Thai ' tap on the wrist ', set another valuable precedent.

[Stradavarius37]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

So you are arguing that PTP politicians are "NOT" corrupt? Bwhahahahaahahahahaha Tell me another story Grandpa, I like fairy tales!

[clockman]

Simple, follow the money!

[ramrod711]

I don't know if corruption can be proved, incompetence has surely been. The PTP government knew that the price they were paying could not be sustained, their answer was to keep offering it and not pay the farmers. Cynical and criminal, truly, corrupt, I don't know.

[zaphod reborn]

The criminal investigation should focus on the failure of the administration to present an accounting and come forward with both the losses and damages to the rice stocks as well as the overall financial losses. Without that transparency no one was in a position to make changes to the scheme to mitigate losses or cancel the program in its entirety.

[NeverSure]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

[rabas]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

[stickyrice2000]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

So you are arguing that PTP politicians are "NOT" corrupt? Bwhahahahaahahahahaha Tell me another story Grandpa, I like fairy tales!

I guess my sentences are too complicated for someone like you. Where did I type in my sentences that the PTP politicians are "NOT" corrupted? Before you accuse someone, you must have proofs that he/she is guilty. Look at it in a business context. Do the executives get arrested because they make wrong decision in the projects? The answer is ‘No’. If the executives embezzled the money from the business, the answer is ‘Yes’. Some government programs are designed to help certain target group. Dig deep and get the details out. Do they have vested interest in the project? Someone returns them the favors such as giving house, land, money, etc. Don’t just say they are “GUILTY” because they were warned about the loss.

Edited June 2, 2014 by stickyrice2000

[Tatsujin]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

It was a Court decision to return previously seized/confiscated funds that were frozen during the investigation of previous cases of corruption. Supposedly.

[worgeordie]

A few little fish will be sacrificed,then business as usual,how many

politicians,influential people do you know that have been found

guilty and have actually gone to prison,in all my time here i only

know one!

Unless investigations are going to be taken very seriously,all the

proof is out there,there will be no changes in Thailand.

regards Worgeordie

[Emptyset]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Waza.... it sure was and is NOT the coup government which created the debt burden...it was the "legally" elected goverment of the Shinewatras ...get your facts right..!

There is no serious debt burden. In Jan it was at 45% of GDP, down 45 billion. That's pretty low by global standards. It might be even lower now considering they haven't been able to spend any money, but with the economy affected and GDP falling, perhaps not (have to factor the 90 billion rice payments into this too, of course). Rice scheme was ridiculous and riddled with corruption, of course, partly by design, partly through mismanagement and incompetence. But let's not exaggerate the debt accrued from it...

[looping]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

I'd be disgusted and yet not surprised if he hadn't offered anyone an explanation of what the money was for.

He can simply take $1.1 billion from the government without any explanation?

And some would say that the Constitution is just fine as it is.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lovetotravel]

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

[Jip99]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Are you suggesting that the rice farmers should not have have paid what they were contractually due >

[Docno]

Shouldn't the title of this thread read "A Thai's Opinion" rather than "Thai Opinion"? I expected to read something about the majority of the national population agitating for a thorough investigation of this matter... [Otherwise, the piece seemed fairly even-handed to me, despite coming from the Nation].

[smedly]

If this investigation has teeth then it would be of great benefit for the NACC to offer an amnesty to a high level participant to turn states evidence and spill the beans on the lot of them - Thaksin already publically stated that he received a very large payment from Thailand last year - working back from that might open a hornets nest

[rametindallas]

A few little fish will be sacrificed,then business as usual,how many

politicians,influential people do you know that have been found

guilty and have actually gone to prison,in all my time here i only

know one!

Unless investigations are going to be taken very seriously,all the

proof is out there,there will be no changes in Thailand.

regards Worgeordie

You are correct but it may cause some bad-actors to take a multi-year holiday in a country other than Thailand.

[Emptyset]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

I'd be disgusted and yet not surprised if he hadn't offered anyone an explanation of what the money was for.

He can simply take $1.1 billion from the government without any explanation?

And some would say that the Constitution is just fine as it is.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where does he say this? Is this being confused with the court's seizure of his assets? They seized 1.4 billion and gave him 1 billion or so back.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Emptyset

[rametindallas]

Ms Yingluck needs to petition the NCPO to be allowed to visit the World Cup in Brazil (similar to what her brother did with the Chinese Olympics) before the shit gets any deeper. How ironic would it be if she was the one in prison for her brother's evil schemes while he is free to travel the world in style. Righ now she is probably cursing him with every other breath. I suspect that lots of former ministers, middlemen, mill owners, and other associates, who illegally benefited from the scheme, will be taking the 'self-exile' option.

Edited June 2, 2014 by rametindallas

[noitom]

Compared to typical Thai deals over the decades, the rice pledging scheme to guaranty farmers a good price and attempt to increase the value of Thai rice is not a serious thing. It is clearly being politicized as something to railroad Yingluck on.

[phantomfiddler]

I think the first thing I would do would be to investigate how the Prime Minister,s brother,s assets increased by 300-400% in the preceding year, an appreciation denied to us normal mortals

[selftaopath]

I am sure the truth will come out but this needs a real investigation,

Sure? LOL TIT ...

[Baerboxer]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

It was a Court decision to return previously seized/confiscated funds that were frozen during the investigation of previous cases of corruption. Supposedly.

Yes. But, does Thai law permit or prohibit, or even comment on, returning funds to a convicted criminal on the run? If so, did the Yingluck administration commit any offence in returning it so hastily?

I don't know the answers but guess not otherwise the Shin's opponents would have been shouting about this.

The Forbes report said the Shin family wealth has increased 450% since Yingy's administration took office. Not a bad increase over the last 3 years, particularly given the economic and financial environment over that period. Wonder why they never managed to bring such wonderful skills and expertise to running Thailand with such equally spectacular results?