Decline in tourist arrivals?

[cmsally]

The figures I saw was +- 10% down in March. There was an article about it but can't remember where I saw it, arrivals for the year was however in the negative. If you look at the countries that have travel warnings out, it makes up the bulk of the Thai tourists. The guys incharge are coming up with many fancy schemes including the revival of the B 2 tn schemes (555 not corrupt and a waste of money now), the easiest and most effective way the economy can get a kick start is to let the Baht depreciate to 40 to the USD. Both exports and tourism (80% of GDP) will boom at that exchange rate and some expats will smile again.

The minimum wage was increased in January 2012 and the effect of that has worked its way through the economy. Any shop closing now can't claim its because of the wage issue. The real issue is the level of personnal debt thats way to high. Many Thai's (and developed countries citizens) can't spend more because of this debt level and when interest rates starts to rise they going to be in trouble.

Thank you for posting that. I was about to post something similar but thought maybe not relevant. I agree with you regarding personal debt. It has been a number of years now - spending seems to be way out of sync with incomes. On a domestic level it would seem people are finally forced to put the brakes on and the tourist dollar is not coming in either. Makes a pretty dire scenario when combined with the politics.

[northernjohn]

Please excuse the semi ramble...

Would not that twice democratically elected ex government clique stand just as much chance as getting elected again (or a new party with similar policies) given previous experience, unless you are going to change the whole concept of democracy (ie a country vote is worth a sixth of a Bangkok vote).

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

Equality is not the problem. In the voting system all are equal. One person one vote. The problem is in the understanding of the consequences of your vote.

The people in the north for the most part do not realize that the money they get paid for their vote and the promises they get will lead to nothing but turmoil. They had the money in their hand for their votes in the last election they had the promise of a golden era for them and they failed to realize it was just smoke and mirrors they had. Look at the results of their choices.

If they had been able to understand the consequences as many people did they would not have choose the people they did.

Democracy in principal is a great thing to have but when it is used as a tool to serve just the rulers it is not a great thing. We now have a military coup running the country. This is not a Democracy it how ever is far better than what we had which was a minority of the population 48% dictating to 52% of the population. With the 48% coming up on the short end of the stick. The 52% can afford the cost of living and the rise in household debt far better than the 48% can.

With the military junta running the country all are being called on the carpet and asked to explain their actions. No longer do we have one man living in Dubai dictating to us through his hired underlings that the 48% elected. The people on all sides of the question are being called in and having their part in the mess examined.

In a about a year give or take there will be another election. This time it will not be full of criminals who are out of jail on bail. People seeking office because if they are in office they can not be charged with there crimes. There will be a whole lot of new faces and the people will be given a choice between people who are far more honest than they have now and more interested in the welfare of Thailand. There will be no more marches on the government howling for the money they promised to pay them if elected.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

[Chiengmaijoe]

In a about a year give or take there will be another election. This time it will not be full of criminals who are out of jail on bail. People seeking office because if they are in office they can not be charged with there crimes. There will be a whole lot of new faces and the people will be given a choice between people who are far more honest than they have now and more interested in the welfare of Thailand. There will be no more marches on the government howling for the money they promised to pay them if elected.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

And everybody lived happily ever after.....

[cmsally]

Seems to be a very naive view of Thai politics. Party politics is really a reflection of the whole system. You need to break it down into networking and its associated parts. Whichever side, there really is not a whole lot of difference.

Then you are suggesting that the military is going to root out all criminality and corruption - that's funny.

I think Thailand is probably in the worst possible position for it's launch into AEC, the country has some really bright people but there are failings throughout the whole system.

As for democracy where everybody understands their vote. In the west you will find people who vote exactly the way they and their fathers have done. I doubt a lot of them bother to look at the policies and then you get others who are very well informed - that's just how it is. There is no use coveting someone's vote because in your opinion they have used it incorrectly. It is theirs - to use how they see fit.

[wwest5829]

Well, I am not in the tourism business but neither do I fill a barstool (ha! Not allowed out alone at night), so from observations here in Chiang Mai there is no way around facing that tourism is down noticibily.

Just finished reading "Thaksin", 2nd Edition (2009) by Pasuk Phongpaichit and Chris Baker and want to recommend it for reading. I believe it to present a balanced and well researched basis for understanding the hope of the majority populace and the failings of the era government. Toward the end of the book, I had to check the calendar as it was déjà vu, all over again. I take the time to make the recommendation because it should well give folks pause to reflect on where Thailand has been and where it continues to go. As some might observe, things will again repeat unless there is a serious change in the culture. Admittedly, I can hope, but will not hold my breadth. My poor benighted Thailand, so rich in culture, so little real potential realized to date.

[Foxter]

From the UK the government has advised tourists not to visit certain parts Thailand , the south etc. I don't know we're your business is but that might have some effect . Depending on who you mainly cater for, the countries I mean, have a look at the government sites and see what advice they are giving.

If the government say not to go, then travel insurance company's May not cover them.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Foxter]

Well, I am not in the tourism business but neither do I fill a barstool (ha! Not allowed out alone at night), so from observations here in Chiang Mai there is no way around facing that tourism is down noticibily.

Just finished reading "Thaksin", 2nd Edition (2009) by Pasuk Phongpaichit and Chris Baker and want to recommend it for reading. I believe it to present a balanced and well researched basis for understanding the hope of the majority populace and the failings of the era government. Toward the end of the book, I had to check the calendar as it was déjà vu, all over again. I take the time to make the recommendation because it should well give folks pause to reflect on where Thailand has been and where it continues to go. As some might observe, things will again repeat unless there is a serious change in the culture. Admittedly, I can hope, but will not hold my breadth. My poor benighted Thailand, so rich in culture, so little real potential realized to date.

Thanks will get the book mad get an idea about the man.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Gunna006]

I'm a little off the topic - but a group of us from Australia have put all travel plans to Thailand on hold - not because of the current situation but the lack of travel insurance. Basically once our government puts out a travel warning on a country you're unable to get travel insurance or the insurance can be voided anytime by the insurance company. In plain English they will sell it to you -- but ya cant claim.

[Foxter]

Contrary to several above comments, we have just had our busiest back to back months in 3yrs.

April and may have been great for us even including at least 6 days last month where we had no customers.

The traditional february surge however was very noticeable, we were down maybe 40% on the previous february and that was due to other countries clamping down on the political situation.

But then all that happened was that they waited a month or so to come back, so Songran was heaving more than ever.

I am never complacent about day to day business but wherever they come from we seem to drop lucky.

....ooh, gotta go another 4000bt just walked in!

Where are you based ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[choochoo]

Tourism is definitely down. But I am actually surprised to see any tourists at all given the situation.

However majority of tourists seem to be Chinese, I'm not too sure if they are aware of whats going on !

Even people who come regularly and can put up with the various "upheavals" are staying away . OK maybe not all but I personally know of half a dozen of these who should have come next month.

Customer count at NANA PLAZA very down. Very good indicator as horny tourist are the last segment to give it UP.......................lol.

[ajarnsiam]

Re poverty index, the World Bank figures: the poverty level in Thailand was reduced from 42.6 % in the year 2000 to 13.2 % in the year 2011.

[Eliot Rosewater]

I for the life of me can not understand why people would not come to Thailand for a holiday.

I do understand why the ones who want to drink and carouse all night don't come. But for the rest of them their is in reality no reason not to come.

The problem is the lack of or even trying to understand what is happening in Thailand and the down right refusal to look at how safe people are here. Far safer than in many of the cities in the countries who are warning tourists against Thailand are.

I do how ever admit that the tourism in other countries is rising as many people have been to Thailand often and heard of these other countries and decide to visit them for a change.

Edit

The media misinformation has caused several people from back home to question me about it. I suggest that they might take a look at how unsafe it is in some of their big cities yet no one say's don't go to Chicago or L A. even though you are not as safe there as you are here.

The fact that their insurance may be null and void might have something to do with it

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Rumblecat]

I for the life of me can not understand why people would not come to Thailand for a holiday.

I do understand why the ones who want to drink and carouse all night don't come. But for the rest of them their is in reality no reason not to come.

The problem is the lack of or even trying to understand what is happening in Thailand and the down right refusal to look at how safe people are here. Far safer than in many of the cities in the countries who are warning tourists against Thailand are.

I do how ever admit that the tourism in other countries is rising as many people have been to Thailand often and heard of these other countries and decide to visit them for a change.

Edit

The media misinformation has caused several people from back home to question me about it. I suggest that they might take a look at how unsafe it is in some of their big cities yet no one say's don't go to Chicago or L A. even though you are not as safe there as you are here.

Well, yeah, but at the same time.. there's a massive reason. The nation is under martial law, there's a curfew in place (and even for normal holidaymakers, having a midnight cap on your activities isn't a great state of affairs), there's armed forces on the streets, there's protests and the possibility of violence down the line...

I agree with you it's still safe here. But if I didn't live here, and I was looking for somewhere to spend my one holiday of the year..? The one I'd been saving up for with my family... do I choose some nice attractive beach location where the country is stable and tourist friendly... or do I choose the place where curfews and coups are in effect? I wouldn't care less about trying to understand what is happening in Thailand- I'd care about the safety of my family and the fact that I didn't want to to holiday in a place that was clearly going through some sort of political and military turmoil.

I reckon it's pretty easy to understand why people don't want to come here for a holiday. I know a few families who have cancelled, and one set of honeymooners who switched to Bali instead. And everyone said the same thing - we don't want to take the risk.

[thailiketoo]

I for the life of me can not understand why people would not come to Thailand for a holiday.

How about no travel insurance? Do you understand that?

Apology to Eliot who already said this.

Edited June 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[hawkeye76]

A friedn of mine owns a motorbike rental + tour operator shop, and he told me this morning, that business were down 40% since the coup started. People are cancelling every day because of what people see in the news. This included some of his chinese customers!.. So.. Things are clearly not getting better right away..

[mrfaroukh]

It is not only noticeable we can hardly see any western tourist in Pattaya at least. My friend was in walking street the other day and told me beside some Asian tourist and Thai people there are almost no Western here. I notice it too in the city, bars, restaurant everywhere.

[mudscrubber]

Please excuse the semi ramble...

Would not that twice democratically elected ex government clique stand just as much chance as getting elected again (or a new party with similar policies) given previous experience, unless you are going to change the whole concept of democracy (ie a country vote is worth a sixth of a Bangkok vote).

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

I take no position on the current political situation but your comments about the economic situation couldn't be more wrong. Isaan and the north have seen dramatic economic gains in the past 14 year for their respective populations - gains which far outpace the average for Thailand. What's more, I'd be careful about criticizing the previous regime's economic programs. In case you haven't heard, the military government plans to continue with the previous regime's huge infrastructure programs to help the Thai economy grow. Where do you get your misinformation from?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Good luck finding Burmese workers for 150 Baht! Most get 500.

Plenty willing to work for that, they are living in a hut 10m from my house, where I am typing this post now.

Edited June 3, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

^^^^^hooray.. another expat who thinks he can run the country,best for these lot is to return to their own country,and let the thais do the business ,good or bad, its their blooming country u know..

If I were in charge

1st I'd silence all the opposition (done)

2nd I'd chuck all the white people out (coming soon), I might let the foreigners married to Thai ladies and already on Marriage extensions stay, as I don't want to upset the UN civil rights bunch, but all those on retirement extensions, gone. The only foreigners I would allow in the country is real tourists, limited to 3 weeks max in any one year.

3rd Confiscation of all land and houses that appeared to be owned (or controlled) by foreigners. That would include all property in business names with foreign directors, all property owned by Thai ladies who appeared to pay for it using a foreigners money.

4th get rid of all the Thai police high-ups who have no loyalty to me, replace them with my own Army men.

5th Close Pattaya, Nana, Patong and all those other blights on the Thai nation.

6th Might as well solve the Muslim problem down south, I have a final solution in mind (once all foreign eyes have gone).

Yep, I agree with you Thailand for the Thais, we don't need you here.

First they came for the Socialists Red Shirts, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist Red Shirt.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists Journalists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Trade Unionist Journalist.

Then they came for the Jews Hill Tribe people, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew Hill Tribe person.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.

Edited June 3, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[DoctorB]

I for the life of me can not understand why people would not come to Thailand for a holiday.

I do understand why the ones who want to drink and carouse all night don't come. But for the rest of them their is in reality no reason not to come.

The problem is the lack of or even trying to understand what is happening in Thailand and the down right refusal to look at how safe people are here. Far safer than in many of the cities in the countries who are warning tourists against Thailand are.

I do how ever admit that the tourism in other countries is rising as many people have been to Thailand often and heard of these other countries and decide to visit them for a change.

Edit

The media misinformation has caused several people from back home to question me about it. I suggest that they might take a look at how unsafe it is in some of their big cities yet no one say's don't go to Chicago or L A. even though you are not as safe there as you are here.

Most genuine tourists want the security of travel insurance. If your country has issued a travel warning no reputable company will cover you, therefore you have a choice: go somewhere else or travel uninsured to a country under military rule. I know which I would choose. Your sanctimonious comments about "the ones who want to drink and carouse all night" and "the lack of even trying to understand what is happening" are neither here nor there in this context.

[Ve37]

Please excuse the semi ramble...

Would not that twice democratically elected ex government clique stand just as much chance as getting elected again (or a new party with similar policies) given previous experience, unless you are going to change the whole concept of democracy (ie a country vote is worth a sixth of a Bangkok vote).

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

Equality is not the problem. In the voting system all are equal. One person one vote. The problem is in the understanding of the consequences of your vote.

The people in the north for the most part do not realize that the money they get paid for their vote and the promises they get will lead to nothing but turmoil. They had the money in their hand for their votes in the last election they had the promise of a golden era for them and they failed to realize it was just smoke and mirrors they had. Look at the results of their choices.

If they had been able to understand the consequences as many people did they would not have choose the people they did.

Democracy in principal is a great thing to have but when it is used as a tool to serve just the rulers it is not a great thing. We now have a military coup running the country. This is not a Democracy it how ever is far better than what we had which was a minority of the population 48% dictating to 52% of the population. With the 48% coming up on the short end of the stick. The 52% can afford the cost of living and the rise in household debt far better than the 48% can.

With the military junta running the country all are being called on the carpet and asked to explain their actions. No longer do we have one man living in Dubai dictating to us through his hired underlings that the 48% elected. The people on all sides of the question are being called in and having their part in the mess examined.

In a about a year give or take there will be another election. This time it will not be full of criminals who are out of jail on bail. People seeking office because if they are in office they can not be charged with there crimes. There will be a whole lot of new faces and the people will be given a choice between people who are far more honest than they have now and more interested in the welfare of Thailand. There will be no more marches on the government howling for the money they promised to pay them if elected.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

Although I appreciate your post, I disagree with the rumors of "cash in hand" vote buying. I've seen no proof of such. I have seen documents of Thaksin getting moneies to communities for their needs, and those communities empowered to disperse it,...to the chagrin of the Bangkok elite who feel the monies, which normally went to them, were now going to the North. By the way....although I spent countless hours trying to understand Suthep, I have never heard an accurate thing from his mouth. If Yingluck was Thaksin's puppet, show me some proof,...not Gobbelsian rhetoric.

However, your points on majority and minority is very important here, and around the World, as people have become more and more divisive, usually by way of media-tion from those seeking to cash-in on hate...ie...Fox News vs NBC News.

As I under it,...in the past 8 years, a land-slide elected Thai government has been destroyed by an unhappy Minority,...in this case, a Minority that controls the Court's and has support of the Military.

My primary Nationality is American,...and in America it is ridiculous how many people believe the County there is under Majority Rule. The fact however is this....America used to be (prior to the Christian take-over in the 1950's) one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. In a Constitutional Democracy the majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion.

Although in America, the Minority does all they can to obstruct the likes of the Obama Administration,...that is, at the expense of regular American's,...in Thailand they go further to destroy Democracy. Perhaps "hate" should be a crime in the Constitution,...if that was so in Thailand, the gangster Suthep would have not made it past last August, and I'd be looking forward to my first ride on High Speed Rail.

[northernjohn]

Please excuse the semi ramble...

Would not that twice democratically elected ex government clique stand just as much chance as getting elected again (or a new party with similar policies) given previous experience, unless you are going to change the whole concept of democracy (ie a country vote is worth a sixth of a Bangkok vote).

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

I take no position on the current political situation but your comments about the economic situation couldn't be more wrong. Isaan and the north have seen dramatic economic gains in the past 14 year for their respective populations - gains which far outpace the average for Thailand. What's more, I'd be careful about criticizing the previous regime's economic programs. In case you haven't heard, the military government plans to continue with the previous regime's huge infrastructure programs to help the Thai economy grow. Where do you get your misinformation from?

Well to be honest with you mostly about the economics right hear on Thai Visa and from the red shirts.

No the new regime is going too look at doing some thing about the infrastructure. That is normal. Every government does it every year some times more than other times. Not sure but I believe they had said the high speed rails were out.

Read in the Bangkok post where their is 20 new engines coming soon for the rail roads and looking into ordering 40 new ones. The PTP ( I presume they did could have been the democrats but I don't think so) ordered the 20 and the new regime is looking into ordering 40 more. Does that sound to you like they are planning on high speed rail road trains?

They are not air heads like the previous government. When they come out with a budget for the infrastructure it will be a detailed one they will be accountable for the money spent. Unlike the previous government who did not want to be accountable for it just give it to us was there attitude.

While we are talking about infrastructure I believe that the proposal to look into a joint venture with China all the way from one end of Thailand to the other end deserves another look. It would defiantly help Isaan.

[northernjohn]

I for the life of me can not understand why people would not come to Thailand for a holiday.

I do understand why the ones who want to drink and carouse all night don't come. But for the rest of them their is in reality no reason not to come.

The problem is the lack of or even trying to understand what is happening in Thailand and the down right refusal to look at how safe people are here. Far safer than in many of the cities in the countries who are warning tourists against Thailand are.

I do how ever admit that the tourism in other countries is rising as many people have been to Thailand often and heard of these other countries and decide to visit them for a change.

Edit

The media misinformation has caused several people from back home to question me about it. I suggest that they might take a look at how unsafe it is in some of their big cities yet no one say's don't go to Chicago or L A. even though you are not as safe there as you are here.

Most genuine tourists want the security of travel insurance. If your country has issued a travel warning no reputable company will cover you, therefore you have a choice: go somewhere else or travel uninsured to a country under military rule. I know which I would choose. Your sanctimonious comments about "the ones who want to drink and carouse all night" and "the lack of even trying to understand what is happening" are neither here nor there in this context.

Nice piece of misinterpreting. I already and will say so again I was wrong about the insurance companies they would make a difference.

the statement still stands.

"I do understand why the ones who want to drink and carouse all night don't come. But for the rest of them their is in reality no reason not to come."

Can you tell me why they would with a curfew in place?

You haven't got a leg to stand on you took this one out of context

"the lack of even trying to understand what is happening"

That statement was taken out of context if you read the whole post you will notice that it was directed at the people who won't come here because of the politics here. Not at the people who are here. All though reading some of their posts I do believe there are some here who don't know the whole story. All they know is their is a coup. The leaders were not elected.

are you telling me that many of the larger cities in so called Democratic first world nations are safer than Thailand? Of course if you throw in the southern provinces you would have a good argument to stand on. But then again there is not that many coming to spend tourist time in those three provinces.

[northernjohn]

Please excuse the semi ramble...

Would not that twice democratically elected ex government clique stand just as much chance as getting elected again (or a new party with similar policies) given previous experience, unless you are going to change the whole concept of democracy (ie a country vote is worth a sixth of a Bangkok vote).

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

Equality is not the problem. In the voting system all are equal. One person one vote. The problem is in the understanding of the consequences of your vote.

The people in the north for the most part do not realize that the money they get paid for their vote and the promises they get will lead to nothing but turmoil. They had the money in their hand for their votes in the last election they had the promise of a golden era for them and they failed to realize it was just smoke and mirrors they had. Look at the results of their choices.

If they had been able to understand the consequences as many people did they would not have choose the people they did.

Democracy in principal is a great thing to have but when it is used as a tool to serve just the rulers it is not a great thing. We now have a military coup running the country. This is not a Democracy it how ever is far better than what we had which was a minority of the population 48% dictating to 52% of the population. With the 48% coming up on the short end of the stick. The 52% can afford the cost of living and the rise in household debt far better than the 48% can.

With the military junta running the country all are being called on the carpet and asked to explain their actions. No longer do we have one man living in Dubai dictating to us through his hired underlings that the 48% elected. The people on all sides of the question are being called in and having their part in the mess examined.

In a about a year give or take there will be another election. This time it will not be full of criminals who are out of jail on bail. People seeking office because if they are in office they can not be charged with there crimes. There will be a whole lot of new faces and the people will be given a choice between people who are far more honest than they have now and more interested in the welfare of Thailand. There will be no more marches on the government howling for the money they promised to pay them if elected.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

Although I appreciate your post, I disagree with the rumors of "cash in hand" vote buying. I've seen no proof of such. I have seen documents of Thaksin getting moneies to communities for their needs, and those communities empowered to disperse it,...to the chagrin of the Bangkok elite who feel the monies, which normally went to them, were now going to the North. By the way....although I spent countless hours trying to understand Suthep, I have never heard an accurate thing from his mouth. If Yingluck was Thaksin's puppet, show me some proof,...not Gobbelsian rhetoric.

However, your points on majority and minority is very important here, and around the World, as people have become more and more divisive, usually by way of media-tion from those seeking to cash-in on hate...ie...Fox News vs NBC News.

As I under it,...in the past 8 years, a land-slide elected Thai government has been destroyed by an unhappy Minority,...in this case, a Minority that controls the Court's and has support of the Military.

My primary Nationality is American,...and in America it is ridiculous how many people believe the County there is under Majority Rule. The fact however is this....America used to be (prior to the Christian take-over in the 1950's) one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. In a Constitutional Democracy the majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion.

Although in America, the Minority does all they can to obstruct the likes of the Obama Administration,...that is, at the expense of regular American's,...in Thailand they go further to destroy Democracy. Perhaps "hate" should be a crime in the Constitution,...if that was so in Thailand, the gangster Suthep would have not made it past last August, and I'd be looking forward to my first ride on High Speed Rail.

You are correct about America not being under Majority rule.

Then again America is not a Democracy it is a Republic. Remember the pledge of allegiance.

" I have seen documents of Thaksin getting moneies to communities for their needs, and those communities empowered to disperse it,..."

but I notice you don't mention what happened to that money. Was he getting money from them or giving money to them. LOL

[heybruce]

The World Bank says that the Bangkok elite have traditionally received 14 times more in services from Thailand's revenue than those in the North,...thus, the Bangkok elite (aka PDRC) may feel better if their votes were also 14 to one vote of those stupid Northerners looking for equality among all Thai people. And yes,...all politicians from the North with populous ideas for the Northern Thai should be Constitutionally banned.

Perhaps that should bring back tourism to pre-Suthep protest levels,...along with an unelected People's Council of Bangkok elite to run the Country.

Equality is not the problem. In the voting system all are equal. One person one vote. The problem is in the understanding of the consequences of your vote.

The people in the north for the most part do not realize that the money they get paid for their vote and the promises they get will lead to nothing but turmoil. They had the money in their hand for their votes in the last election they had the promise of a golden era for them and they failed to realize it was just smoke and mirrors they had. Look at the results of their choices.

If they had been able to understand the consequences as many people did they would not have choose the people they did.

Democracy in principal is a great thing to have but when it is used as a tool to serve just the rulers it is not a great thing. We now have a military coup running the country. This is not a Democracy it how ever is far better than what we had which was a minority of the population 48% dictating to 52% of the population. With the 48% coming up on the short end of the stick. The 52% can afford the cost of living and the rise in household debt far better than the 48% can.

With the military junta running the country all are being called on the carpet and asked to explain their actions. No longer do we have one man living in Dubai dictating to us through his hired underlings that the 48% elected. The people on all sides of the question are being called in and having their part in the mess examined.

In a about a year give or take there will be another election. This time it will not be full of criminals who are out of jail on bail. People seeking office because if they are in office they can not be charged with there crimes. There will be a whole lot of new faces and the people will be given a choice between people who are far more honest than they have now and more interested in the welfare of Thailand. There will be no more marches on the government howling for the money they promised to pay them if elected.

The people will be given a new chance. Thaksin will no longer control the government. Hopefully the people will have learned by then that smoke and mirrors has not given them any thing in the past and it will not give them any thing in the future. They will realize that in the past 14 years Thaksin has ruled for 9 of them and they are still poor.

Although I appreciate your post, I disagree with the rumors of "cash in hand" vote buying. I've seen no proof of such. I have seen documents of Thaksin getting moneies to communities for their needs, and those communities empowered to disperse it,...to the chagrin of the Bangkok elite who feel the monies, which normally went to them, were now going to the North. By the way....although I spent countless hours trying to understand Suthep, I have never heard an accurate thing from his mouth. If Yingluck was Thaksin's puppet, show me some proof,...not Gobbelsian rhetoric.

However, your points on majority and minority is very important here, and around the World, as people have become more and more divisive, usually by way of media-tion from those seeking to cash-in on hate...ie...Fox News vs NBC News.

As I under it,...in the past 8 years, a land-slide elected Thai government has been destroyed by an unhappy Minority,...in this case, a Minority that controls the Court's and has support of the Military.

My primary Nationality is American,...and in America it is ridiculous how many people believe the County there is under Majority Rule. The fact however is this....America used to be (prior to the Christian take-over in the 1950's) one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. In a Constitutional Democracy the majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, or religion.

Although in America, the Minority does all they can to obstruct the likes of the Obama Administration,...that is, at the expense of regular American's,...in Thailand they go further to destroy Democracy. Perhaps "hate" should be a crime in the Constitution,...if that was so in Thailand, the gangster Suthep would have not made it past last August, and I'd be looking forward to my first ride on High Speed Rail.

You are correct about America not being under Majority rule.

Then again America is not a Democracy it is a Republic. Remember the pledge of allegiance.

" I have seen documents of Thaksin getting moneies to communities for their needs, and those communities empowered to disperse it,..."

but I notice you don't mention what happened to that money. Was he getting money from them or giving money to them. LOL

This is off topic, but I keep seeing the statement "America is not a Democracy it is a Republic." Well:

re·pub·lic

riˈpəblik/

noun

noun: republic; plural noun: republics

1. a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

   • archaic

     a group with a certain equality between its members.

Ok, maybe not exactly the same thing, but...

Perhaps someone can explain why a democracy is not a republic.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ No let's not. You're 100% correct of course, but this is the final topic left where some reports about what's going on after the coup can be discussed; let's not go that far off topic because once closed and there is a new development the 're-starting a closed topic' rule will kick-in, no matter how valid the new observation.

Edited June 3, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cmsally]

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

I think we can safely say that Thailand is neither a Republic or Democracy.

Every day there are more people coming out denouncing Thai actions.

Of course you will see a decline in arrivals when a large portion of the worlds academics and press disagree with whats going on.

Edited June 3, 2014 by cmsally

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think we can safely say that Thailand is neither a Republic or Democracy.

Right, and let's hope it never becomes one. (Democracy). For expats and tourists alike, it's a lot better as a feudal system with a veneer of parliamentary window dressing. And this has been just fine with all Western democracies for the last 70 years or so, so long may it continue.

Just as long as nobody in parliament gets any funny ideas about actually running the country, all will be fine. And it's not even that hard; last time around the senate was switched to be half appointed. Do the same for the house and it's pretty much job done. (Though perhaps they'll just settle for a little tweaking / gerrymandering and just monitor things closely. That looks a bit better to the outside world, while it has worked perfectly fine for the establishment too for the last 70 years. ....AND it has resulted in the Thailand we all know and love!!! So let's get back to the tried and tested playbook.

[cmsally]

I think we can safely say that Thailand is neither a Republic or Democracy.

Right, and let's hope it never becomes one. (Democracy). For expats and tourists alike, it's a lot better as a feudal system with a veneer of parliamentary window dressing. And this has been just fine with all Western democracies for the last 70 years or so, so long may it continue.

Just as long as nobody in parliament gets any funny ideas about actually running the country, all will be fine. And it's not even that hard; last time around the senate was switched to be half appointed. Do the same for the house and it's pretty much job done. (Though perhaps they'll just settle for a little tweaking / gerrymandering and just monitor things closely. That looks a bit better to the outside world, while it has worked perfectly fine for the establishment too for the last 70 years. ....AND it has resulted in the Thailand we all know and love!!! So let's get back to the tried and tested playbook.

Yes and of course don't forget to keep that "little place in the country" (well actually , another country). Good to have a bolthole when the riff raff get restless.

[hugh2121]

Are you proposing that Thailand should reject the democratic principle of one person, one vote? I do not know enough of Thai politics to express any view at all but please remember that the "clique" you refer were elected by a large majority of the population.