From A teachers perspective, what can be done about education in Thailand

[Bcgardener]

I hope this topic is not in the wrong place but as foreign teachers are at the "coal face" so to speak with education here , I thought you may be able to provide an insight as to what is wrong. A few examples that I have experienced within our company......

1. My Thai assistant at work is around 29 years old, has a degree in business (of some sort) and is generally a nice intelligent person. However I asked her to show me where Thailand was on a World map and she didn't know. She also said that her teacher at the English classes she attended when starting with us (Thai teacher) had told her that Thailand was a larger Country than Australia and that we spoke Australian, not English (okay maybe that is true).
2. One of my tradesman who finished all 6 years of high school and then did a technical college course could not read and understand his employment contract written in Thai
3. A visiting Thai electrical engineer to our company from one of the largest companies in Thailand could not read and interpret an electrical wiring diagram that related to a product he was inspecting yet this guy had a degree in electrical engineering from a Thai university

These are just a few that stick in my mind. Why is this the case with the education system here? The two staff members I mentioned are normal intelligent people and great employees so it is not the person that is at fault so it must be the "system".

From a foreign teachers perspective what can be done about this (if anything) or what do you think are the causes... The teachers , the curriculum , the education department.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[iTravelNow]

Will PM you

[cgphuket]

I feel the problem is basically, because most jobs are restricted to Thais, the lack of competition lead to laziness. Why bother teaching more than needed, since the students will only have to compete with students from other Thai universities. All will change in the near future and many Thais will see their previously "safe" jobs going to other Asians. Then the schools will have to actually try to raise the bar. I worked with an "office manager" who had a degree in IT and computer networking, but took him 3 months to figure out how to hook up our office printer. However, he slept with the Dutch owner and now he has a new Ducati and a new Toyota, so I guess some skills are more valuable than others...

[biggles45]

" All will change in the near future and many Thais will see their previously "safe" jobs going to other Asians. Then the schools will have to actually try to raise the bar. "

Not likely, Thailand has already announced that it will restrict employment after 2015 for other ASEAN people to eight professional categories. Whether ths is in the spirit of the EC Is something the other nations will have to decide. If there is any chance of Thais being excluded from local jobs because of their lack of ability you can bet they will change the rules to suit.

[Khun Loong]

Don't start me......my favourite: an acquaintance who after 4 years of university insisted that "Brazil is a country in England". Kind of typical really from a country where most people refuse to believe the Americans landed on the moon, but are quite happy believing in ghosts.

'The problem of education' in this society will take generations to solve.

[OmarZaidMD]

A similar apartheid system is in effect in Malaysia with comparable results for native Malays. Public schools are dismal failures, especially when controlled by a central authority. Local autonomy wanes, corruption waxes along with nepotism, and incompetents win the day.

[ebean001]

The education change has to begin with better education in the younger years. I talked to an 8th grader and asked him 7 times 5. he struggled. The truth is - it is too late for him. It is too late for many students if they did not get the basics in grades 1,2,3. I can understand teachers in the later grades simply go through the motions of teaching because the students do not have a background of knowledge.

[aussie11950]

I think the main problem is lack of testing.
When students are passed for exams regardless of performance, nothing will change.


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[sdanielmcev]

There you go again, trying to change Thailand into the West.

[joshstiles]

You say that the problem is the "system"....but you neglect to look further than your nose.... The problem is the "culture"....which creates the system....which generates the mentality.....short term gains are good.....this leads to corruption.....this is also why thai people can learn to speak english in just 30 hours!!!!!!!

Give it to us quickly!!!

[Paulzed]

The culture of "I am older than you and there for I am smarter than you" and "do as I say and not as I do", doesn't help the education system either

[kaorop]

There you go again, trying to change Thailand into the West.

An incorrect assessment of the ops intention.

[Paulzed]

There you go again, trying to change Thailand into the West.

My parents come from Europe pre world war 2 and there culture was exactly like that of Thailand today, and the people were dirt poor, had bad education, a lot of crime and lets not forget about loosing face.

They saw they had bad culture and education and they insisted on change.

After the second world war the people of Europe evolved to what they are today.

[Kf6vci]

There are almost 1,000 schools with admin staff and teachers - but no students (customers).

Amazon.com is a customer centric company. Schools need to put their customers first! Im reality, students don't really matter. And when government controlled schools can't or won't use the xx IT professionals on the payro;ll to get the wifi network or the classroom PCs working, then you have an example of how things are being done.

[smotherb]

Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century

Thailand is not the only country doing poorly in Math, Science, Reading, Geography, History or any other subject, except perhaps, playing video games. I have been involved in course development at two universities. The primary trend in both curricula was to lessen the complexity of the assignments.

It is strikingly apparent, the Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century; dumb down the assignments.

For example, math skills are atrocious worldwide. Lets take a look at the same math problem over the years:

1950s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 4/5 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a slide rule, calculate the percentage between his initial purchase price and his total sales?

1970s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a calculator, compute his profit over his initial purchase price?

1990s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Has he recovered his investment in teapots; Yes or No?

2010s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Underline the number 80.

[dao16]

Basically, most university degrees here mean nothing--you have to look at other things about the person. Just recently I had a student ask for a grade change. I went back to my records and saw that he really didn't do any work during the whole term and got as near to 0% as possible on the final exam. The school wanted him passed through, so I made him jump through some hoops and do a bunch of work and gave him the lowest passing grade (in case you are wondering....proficiency according to the university? 50%!)

A few days ago he emailed me wanting a higher grade. The reason is that most of his teachers would just raise it to be done with it. So, as long as you can consistently pay for each term during the degree, you will get a fancy sheet of paper with your name on it.

At a meeting a while back, some teachers were complaining that the students wouldn't study but would just show up for exams without knowing anything. Someone asked if they do the same thing when it comes to other subjects, like science or mathematics. The admin staff laughed and covered their mouths, which basically means "yes."

Now, there might be some Thai universities that aren't like this, but nobody has specifically pointed one out to me.

[62strat]

A quality education is the privlidge of the empowered elite.The masses do not have access to a decent standard of education, and are socially prevented from benefiting from any meaningful advancement. When will an educated population (an informed electorate), be in the best interests of the powers that be ? Perhaps when the centrally controlled system finds itself falling behind Cambodia..

Edited June 5, 2014 by 62strat

[3R1C]

It is cultural. Among the Thai, a foremost priority is to not offend the culture. You do not disagree with what an older person says, and you do not speak first if you think you have an idea. You do not correct another person's mistake, and you do not criticize another person's views. That is lovely sentiment. It is extremely pleasant living among Thais because they are so committed to keeping it Gkreng-Jai. Not a day goes by I do not genuinely appreciate their attitude towards one another.

But: How in the blue fork do you teach critical thinking skills and a problem-solving mindset to a classroom full of that? Just please explain how, because I cannot see a way.

[sirchai]

From A teachers perspective, what can be done about education in Thailand

1. Cancel all boy scout activities.

2. Let Thai English teacher study abroad in an English speaking country for at least four years. When they come back, they speak English and don't lose face anymore.

3. Shorten the morning flag ceremony to a 5 minute event, as nobody wants to hear weird speeches in the morning in the heat, while kids collapse through heat strokes.

4. Thai teachers are not allowed to lose face anymore, they'll have to "carry" a mirror in front of their foreheads to be able to have a face. Cancel Facebook for them.

5. Students will be encouraged to ask questions.

6. Students can fail.

7. Thai teachers will get immediately dismissed, when hitting a child, or sexually assault one.

8. Pay a higher salary to foreign teachers, those who work here for many years should be given the opportunity to have a Thai ID as well.

9. Also foreign teachers have the right to open up a bank account at a Thai teacher bank.

10. Make Thai teachers understand how stupid they sometimes look in their fancy uniforms.

11. Let the children play.-

Edited June 5, 2014 by sirchai

[smotherb]

Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century

Thailand is not the only country doing poorly in Math, Science, Reading, Geography, History or any other subject, except perhaps, playing video games. I have been involved in course development at two universities. The primary trend in both curricula was to lessen the complexity of the assignments.

It is strikingly apparent, the Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century; dumb down the curricula.

For example, math skills are atrocious worldwide. Lets take a look at the same math problem over the years:

1950s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 4/5 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a slide rule, calculate the percentage between his initial purchase price and his total sales?

1970s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a calculator, compute his profit over his initial purchase price?

1990s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Has he recovered his investment in teapots; Yes or No?

2010s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Underline the number 80.

[dotpoom]

I've seen street surveys on the TV both from Europe and America...where people were asked to point out something on a map, or asked the name of a President or some other world figure, questions that you would expect a baby to be able to answer and the about of ignorance on the subjects was beyond belief...so it's not confines to Thailand.

[iancnx]

Good thread. Hoping to read more constructive posts. I'm not a teacher of children, I am an adult life-long learning instructor/ workshop facilitator. I have every intention of home-schooling my son up to age 10.

[iTravelNow]

Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century

Thailand is not the only country doing poorly in Math, Science, Reading, Geography, History or any other subject, except perhaps, playing video games. I have been involved in course development at two universities. The primary trend in both curricula was to lessen the complexity of the assignments.

It is strikingly apparent, the Educational Philosophy of the 21st Century; dumb down the assignments.

For example, math skills are atrocious worldwide. Lets take a look at the same math problem over the years:

1950s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 4/5 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a slide rule, calculate the percentage between his initial purchase price and his total sales?

1970s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for a 30% profit each. Without using a calculator, compute his profit over his initial purchase price?

1990s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Has he recovered his investment in teapots; Yes or No?

2010s Math

A vendor has 100 teapots which cost him $5 each. He sells 80 of them for $6.50 each. Underline the number 80.

Great example - will bookmark it. Thanks for sharing this.

[iancnx]

" All will change in the near future and many Thais will see their previously "safe" jobs going to other Asians. Then the schools will have to actually try to raise the bar. "

Not likely, Thailand has already announced that it will restrict employment after 2015 for other ASEAN people to eight professional categories. Whether ths is in the spirit of the EC Is something the other nations will have to decide. If there is any chance of Thais being excluded from local jobs because of their lack of ability you can bet they will change the rules to suit.

Could you please share the eight professional categories; I'm not aware of this rule, though don't doubt it for one moment. Thanks

[Balance]

There you go again, trying to change Thailand into the West.

I am not sure if this was meant to be facetious or not, but it has nothing to do with changing Thailand into the west. It has to do with the future of Thailand on the world stage. It has to do with Thailand's ability to compete with other countries. It has to do with standards and setting expectations for children. I stopped to buy 15 eggs in a shop recently. Two boys, aged about 9 and about 14 could not figure out the price of 15 eggs if the sign on top of the eggs said that 30 eggs was TB119. Believing that this is a complete tragedy and that the system that produced this result should be corrected is not trying to change Thailand into the west.

[silent]

Don't start me......my favourite: an acquaintance who after 4 years of university insisted that "Brazil is a country in England". Kind of typical really from a country where most people refuse to believe the Americans landed on the moon, but are quite happy believing in ghosts.

'The problem of education' in this society will take generations to solve.

Please don't start on my favourite Khun Loon......... I can take computers, cars, almost anything apart, (and put back together), or tell more than needed to know about many things, but if asked how many planets or continents there are, I guess I was sleeping when the latest verdicts came out.

It was shocking to learn of my competence lacking in the English language from a younger smarter Native English teacher, that after all these years of being number 9, (number 9 in my mind), Pluto's just a ghost now and additionally that the jury's still hung on the continent issue.

These are the important things in Thailand for a Native English Speaking teacher to know and consider in order to teach Thais how speak English.

Ask where Manilla is and I might say in Ontario, Canada from the last time I saw, and at the same time I believe there's an Ontario somewhere in the US of A. If you asked me where Brazil is, I'd probably guess you're English and say the same thing.

The problem is that education doesn't necessarily mean intelligence, near as much as being the only viable tool to use as a graph for the sometimes unnaturally low IQ to compare their intelligence, and sweep the below 100 number under the carpet. It's no more unique to this society than everything else imported here.

[iTravelNow]

Basically, most university degrees here mean nothing--you have to look at other things about the person. Just recently I had a student ask for a grade change. I went back to my records and saw that he really didn't do any work during the whole term and got as near to 0% as possible on the final exam. The school wanted him passed through, so I made him jump through some hoops and do a bunch of work and gave him the lowest passing grade (in case you are wondering....proficiency according to the university? 50%!)

A few days ago he emailed me wanting a higher grade. The reason is that most of his teachers would just raise it to be done with it. So, as long as you can consistently pay for each term during the degree, you will get a fancy sheet of paper with your name on it.

At a meeting a while back, some teachers were complaining that the students wouldn't study but would just show up for exams without knowing anything. Someone asked if they do the same thing when it comes to other subjects, like science or mathematics. The admin staff laughed and covered their mouths, which basically means "yes."

Now, there might be some Thai universities that aren't like this, but nobody has specifically pointed one out to me.

That is a problem we encounter in many countries. In the middle east as example, I heard from a colleague that when he gave a bad mark to a student, his father (from a strong tribe) came to school with a gun and asked to change it. We have bad performance and behavior also in western countries. PISA results by Westerners go down where the Nordic and Asian people are on the rise.

General speaking, I think it is not only the culture, system, teaching material, class size. But also the attitude of students and teachers. BTW; I like the example given by smotherb (post #15).

I also could tell pages of examples. It makes no sense to repeat them here again. Also, I am not teaching in schools but in the private industry. So dealing more with adults. The problems are not much different. Only, children don't feel so quickly ashamed and embarrassed as adults. I am fortunate to have a natural gift in communication. I use it and see the results in form of empowerment and inspirations I leave behind.

[iancnx]

Don't start me......my favourite: an acquaintance who after 4 years of university insisted that "Brazil is a country in England". Kind of typical really from a country where most people refuse to believe the Americans landed on the moon, but are quite happy believing in ghosts.

'The problem of education' in this society will take generations to solve.

Please don't start on my favourite Khun Loon......... I can take computers, cars, almost anything apart, (and put back together), or tell more than needed to know about many things, but if asked how many planets or continents there are, I guess I was sleeping when the latest verdicts came out.

It was shocking to learn of my competence lacking in the English language from a younger smarter Native English teacher, that after all these years of being number 9, (number 9 in my mind), Pluto's just a ghost now and additionally that the jury's still hung on the continent issue.

These are the important things in Thailand for a Native English Speaking teacher to know and consider in order to teach Thais how speak English.

Ask where Manilla is and I might say in Ontario, Canada from the last time I saw, and at the same time I believe there's an Ontario somewhere in the US of A. If you asked me where Brazil is, I'd probably guess you're English and say the same thing.

The problem is that education doesn't necessarily mean intelligence, near as much as being the only viable tool to use as a graph for the sometimes unnaturally low IQ to compare their intelligence, and sweep the below 100 number under the carpet. It's no more unique to this society than everything else imported here.

<deleted> ?

[Paulzed]

A lot of different opinions here, but I think that everyone agrees that education is important for our youth and for a country in whole.

The real challenge is to provide the education, that will give our youth the tools to be able to enter the workforce and gain a worthwhile career.

[iTravelNow]

It is cultural. Among the Thai, a foremost priority is to not offend the culture. You do not disagree with what an older person says, and you do not speak first if you think you have an idea. You do not correct another person's mistake, and you do not criticize another person's views. That is lovely sentiment. It is extremely pleasant living among Thais because they are so committed to keeping it Gkreng-Jai. Not a day goes by I do not genuinely appreciate their attitude towards one another.

But: How in the blue fork do you teach critical thinking skills and a problem-solving mindset to a classroom full of that? Just please explain how, because I cannot see a way.

Critical thinking has to be build up - subtle and smart. It takes time. Depending on your ability, the students openness and the size of the class, I think one year must be given.