War weapons seized during series of raids

[FangFerang]

I am glad they are grabbing this stuff, but it seems reasonable that something is missing here. 54 guns, 22 various grenades (and one smoke grenade) and all this all adds up to "a large haul"?

I am not expecting them to turn up tactical nukes, nor do I want this unstable country in a civil war of any scope, but...

Something is very fishy. I could put everything they found in a van and drive it to China in one pop.

I am worried about what they are NOT finding. I am very worried about that.

Thaksin is a highly intelligent man. All the criticisms of him are about his morals, not his intelligence. I would venture that he is smarter than any Thai Visa poster, including myself (as much as it irks us all, with the idiocy being bandied about as leadership under his remote control command). Did any of us figure out how to be a billionaire?

Uh, NO.

With his resources and intelligence, this could get very messy. The political pattern is predictable. He knew there would be another coup. It was like betting the sun would rise. A total no brainer.

Further, one can go to East Timor and buy ten cases of Good-old-fashioned Russian claymores and not raise any eyebrows. One could go to Malaysia and buy twenty kilos of NATO plastique, with no questions asked. The power brokers did this. We flooded the world with arms -- all of us. The US, Russia, Britain, China, France, and all the permanent members of the UN "insecurity council" sold bullets and ka-booms of every kind like rice around the world. And some of them have come to the Land Of Smiles, and that is a matter of grief. No matter the news reports, there is a lot of merchandise that is not in the inventory of any side.

But, like Afghanistan, arming people to fight our enemies is a shortcut to a backfire. People who like you today do not have to like you next week. And they still have your Stinger Missiles.

Look at it, baldly, strip away who you support and who you do not support and you have....an Acme Time Bomb that Coyote could not have rigged to snuff the Road Runner. The leaders are rounded up, people squawk, but 'cells' are immune to this inquisition. The 'cell' structure for resistance was a horrible, effective way to deal with a larger enemy that has the advantage. Each cell is very barely connected to any other cell. Very barely. If you do not know, you have no one to betray. And the 'cells' remain stable... It works like this: I am the only one who knows the leaders of ten cells -- but I am invisible....I am not public, I am not vocal, I am not armed, I am not dangerous. In short, I am a nobody, and if the Big Boss is smart he pays me cash that never sees a bank account. I am invisible.

Crap. Most westerners are intellectually incapable of dealing with any organization they cannot overwhelm. Straight up, plain and simple. Cells terrify them, and myself. It lets cave men become martyrs -- what a mess!

Welcome to 21st century guerrilla warfare. 'Cells' protect the organization absolutely. 'Cells' are the new marines of the 21st century -- and no interrogation can extract information the detainee does not possess.

This all scares the hell out of me. This is a wonderful country, with a wise and brilliant King. His mom, the Queen Mother, was nothing less than inspirational -- flying in her helicopter to dig wells for thirsty people, when she could have stayed home and nibbled biscuits. Shame on the West and our sometimes diffident Queens!

Thais deserve better than the education the 'cells' and 'political alliances' have given them. Screw NATO -- Thailand has the right to make their own mistakes and create their own successes. Thye only whinge seems to be that some capitalists on Wall Street have their panties in a bunch....

There are a large number of foreigners here who do not like Thais, and they should all be deported, but a lot of us like Thais, they are a sweet and gentle people much different than the people of the surrounding countries -- and I have been to their neighboring countries. There is just something uniquely NICE about the people here (even though they baffle me daily and do things I do not understand to the point of, well, inebriation). I think that is what the Great Man tried to describe as "Thainess".

If you really care about the people here...maybe helping your neighbor is better than doing a daily pro-color rant on TVF? The economy is in a strait. If you really hate Thaksin, give a kilo of rice to a random poor Thai (you see them every day). If you really support Thaksin, give a kilo of rice to a random poor Thai (you see them every day)...

Maybe by now you are getting the point of a centrist...

Just a thought. I gave the klong-dwellers down the street a 100 kilos of Thai jasmine rice as an example.

The world of ideas is a way for a mind to congratulate itself at its own cleverness. The world of action is a way for a human to become a being.

Anybody feel froggy? One kilo of rice costs less than a pack of cigarettes. Try it. You might find why the Lord Buddha decided to love everyone, and not just the lucky ones.

You feel froggy?

Jump!

[rreddin]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

Well, there never was a free press in Thailand, but there is no doubt that is less free now. Probably more self-censorship than previously, much as is exhorted by the moderators on this forum. Given that scenario, there is little point to any discussion in any news forum in this country. Others are free to disagree. There is much more news about Thailand being reported outside of the country by less restricted media and it is from those sources that I prefer to get my information. Nevertheless, I remain sceptital, keep an open mind and keep my oun counsel.

There are parts of Thai Visa that are of greater utility than the news forum and long may it remain so.

[Morch]

Irrespective of who's weapons they are it is yet more weapons that the PTP and CAPO were unwilling to uncover through either an agenda driven lethargy or through incompetence. Either way, one can conclude they are either affiliated with the militia or they are simply incompetent.

After seeing the rice scheme as well as Nattawut who is an accused terrorist UDD leader sharing that role along side being a PTP minister I suspect a mixture of both.

Well done again General and even less weapons on the street that can kill or maim my family.

Cannot deny the progress the democracy restoration team have made.

Yes.....progressive democracy.

Quite obvious.

Yes vey progressive. Through reconciliation then reform then a return to democracy. That is progressive.

As opposed to the PTP that was regressive. Started with democracy (elections) and then went down hill from there)

PS - I prefer progressive too!

Thanks.

Buzzwords.

What reconciliation? - National reconciliation is usually a process taking years if not decades.

To imagine everyone will be living happily ever after within a year's time and that all will be forgotten is naive at best.

Reform is yet another vague concept - a lot of talk about reforms being needed, talk which been going on for about a

year now. Not one of the players have presented a reasonable blue print for what they might include, an acceptable

format of body to formulate them, and no clear ideas as to meaningful application of these reforms.

Democracy - everyone loves that one, just that most players have trouble with actually adhering to its many pesky

constraints.

[djjamie]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand

So that narrows it down to Zimbabwe or Sudan then…Both being an elected govt that abuse democracy post elections.

Love your other quote too

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries.

I have heard it all when it does not suit the PTP agenda. Fake farmers. Fake monks. Fake red shirts. Fake ID cards. Fake police. But never fake news reports that don't suit the PTP agenda.

That my friend is undoubtably, unequivocally, without question PTP logic right there. AND I LOVE IT!!!

PTP, red-shirts, and PDRC all used the "fake" card when things did not suit them. Nothing to be proud about, and

not endemic to one of the sides. Non of them are in charge, by the way.

The fact that the press is not free now is a fact, which the generals themselves openly concede. Could be a called

a temporary measure or a step back in order to step forward - doesn't matter the fact that this is a reality at present.

That is not to say that the news regarding those weapons (and others) are "fake", just that there is currently one

narrative, one version, one public view on things. It may be correct, but it cannot be disputed. So in this meaning,

no, the press is not free.

Whatever the situation of the press was under the PTP's rule, is one thing. The present is another.

Basically, another version of "but...but...PTP" (with the unnecessary tired slogan about PTP logic).

Wonderful and the press was relatively free before the 22nd of May and not one report of weapons caches was in the media anywhere and not one report of arrests of militants in the media. One could suggest the PTP had an agenda not unlike what some allure too with the military yet the PTP did not make any or very minimal progress in uncovering anything of the extent the Junta has and rest assured if the PTP did uncover the extent of weapons and militia arrests that the Junta did the narrative by the "red shirt" sympathizers on TVF or in the general public would be very different to what they are spouting now.

The military to date have;

Seized the weapons in the above OP.

Also today - Police in the lower Central Plains area have arrested 121 people wanted on old arrest warrants, seized more than 200 illegal guns and about 2,600 bullets over the past seven days.

A few days ago concerned citizens were worried about weapons the PDRC dumped in a canal. The military investigated. They discovered a body and a cache of weapons. It was reported by the media and all fingers point at PDRC / PCAD protestors or guards.

Fire arms seized in Samot Sahkon. Lady admitted they were for protests in Bangkok. UDD ID’s etc found at scene. Subsequently a few days later after ballistic tests it was discovered the machine gun matched that which was used in the Trat attacks

"the RDG-5 grenades (same grenades used in Trat attack as well) had the same lot number as those used in previous attacks in Bangkok's Bang Na area, Chon Buri and Nonthaburi."

Charupong Ruengsuwans resort found with a cache of weapons.

troops arrested 22 armed suspects and seized a large cache of arms on May 23 in Khon Kaen also showing that thaksin controls the violent militia uprising

180 M67s, 27 RPG rounds found in Chonburi

A joint raid by police, troops and and administrative officials led by Pol Col Nipon Hemsalamad, the Singha Nakhon police chief, conducted a search in a house in Singha Nakhon district on Monday morning. After the raid, police said they found and seized an M16 rifle with 73 rounds of ammunition, a 9mm pistol with 28 rounds, an M26 hand grenade and two methamphetamine pills.

More than 3,000 people were rounded up and a large number of heavy weapons seized under a coordinated crackdown by police, military officials and civilian volunteers

So far we have a partisan military that has so far paid farmers. Proactively made progress in Phuket by arresting taxi scam culprits. Improved "Thai Confidence" and through their actions consumer sentiment is recovering with stocks and baht gains. We have public input on the reform process. Not just PDRC or DEM input mind you. All the public. The streets are safer. Not just for PDRC mind you. For all the public. Terrorist attacks have stopped. Criminals are being arrested. Nobody who has been arrested by the Army has claimed anything but professional treatment. No tortures are reported and no disappearances.

So it seems instead of some celebrating this fact that the military are showing no bias and having made 100% more progress in removing weapons and potential terrorists than the PTP they are instead denounced by some and their hard work downplayed (as in your reply to GeorgeO) and most glaringly their motives questioned. (as in your reply to me)

I feel the military could remove every weapon from Thailand, reform the country brilliantly and restore a democracy that is faultless and there will still be some bitter people in the shadows that spout the army are evil and partisan.

Well that is why there is reconciliation before reform and before true democracy.

So when a tired slogan is stated like "PTP logic" it coincides with the tiring pessimistic attitude that some have toward anyone or anything that does not suit the PTP agenda.

The PTP/ UDD started this attitude with the DEM's in 2010.

They worked there way through the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the Environmentalists, the corn farmer, rubber farmers, rice farmers, medical association, rural teachers, academics, Supa, global economists, IMF, private banks, GSB, the EC, AoT, the courts, bangkok middle class, business owner, state enterprise staff, Buddhist monks, civil servants, labor unions, Green Politics group, Thai Constitution Protection Association, The Thai press, NIDA poll, Bangkok Poll between 2011 to 2013.

​And it is now currently the military in 2014 which underscores your narrative which is projected into the forum in an albeit subtle way.

Take care and may peace and reconciliation be with you.

<EDIT> Just read your post above. Like I said, the pessimistic attitude is tiring.

Edited June 5, 2014 by djjamie

[love1012]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

Garbage!

[love1012]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand

So that narrows it down to Zimbabwe or Sudan then…Both being an elected govt that abuse democracy post elections.

Love your other quote too

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries.

I have heard it all when it does not suit the PTP agenda. Fake farmers. Fake monks. Fake red shirts. Fake ID cards. Fake police. But never fake news reports that don't suit the PTP agenda.

That my friend is undoubtably, unequivocally, without question PTP logic right there. AND I LOVE IT!!!

Yes more proof that red shirt thai visa posters probably originated in Narnia!!

[noitom]

What about the shotgun? I see a 12 gauge shotgun shell there.

[Morch]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand

So that narrows it down to Zimbabwe or Sudan then…Both being an elected govt that abuse democracy post elections.

Love your other quote too

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries.

I have heard it all when it does not suit the PTP agenda. Fake farmers. Fake monks. Fake red shirts. Fake ID cards. Fake police. But never fake news reports that don't suit the PTP agenda.

That my friend is undoubtably, unequivocally, without question PTP logic right there. AND I LOVE IT!!!

PTP, red-shirts, and PDRC all used the "fake" card when things did not suit them. Nothing to be proud about, and

not endemic to one of the sides. Non of them are in charge, by the way.

The fact that the press is not free now is a fact, which the generals themselves openly concede. Could be a called

a temporary measure or a step back in order to step forward - doesn't matter the fact that this is a reality at present.

That is not to say that the news regarding those weapons (and others) are "fake", just that there is currently one

narrative, one version, one public view on things. It may be correct, but it cannot be disputed. So in this meaning,

no, the press is not free.

Whatever the situation of the press was under the PTP's rule, is one thing. The present is another.

Basically, another version of "but...but...PTP" (with the unnecessary tired slogan about PTP logic).

Wonderful and the press was relatively free before the 22nd of May and not one report of weapons caches was in the media anywhere and not one report of arrests of militants in the media. One could suggest the PTP had an agenda not unlike what some allure too with the military yet the PTP did not make any or very minimal progress in uncovering anything of the extent the Junta has and rest assured if the PTP did uncover the extent of weapons and militia arrests that the Junta did the narrative by the "red shirt" sympathizers on TVF or in the general public would be very different to what they are spouting now.

The military to date have;

Seized the weapons in the above OP.

Also today - Police in the lower Central Plains area have arrested 121 people wanted on old arrest warrants, seized more than 200 illegal guns and about 2,600 bullets over the past seven days.

A few days ago concerned citizens were worried about weapons the PDRC dumped in a canal. The military investigated. They discovered a body and a cache of weapons. It was reported by the media and all fingers point at PDRC / PCAD protestors or guards.

Fire arms seized in Samot Sahkon. Lady admitted they were for protests in Bangkok. UDD ID’s etc found at scene. Subsequently a few days later after ballistic tests it was discovered the machine gun matched that which was used in the Trat attacks

"the RDG-5 grenades (same grenades used in Trat attack as well) had the same lot number as those used in previous attacks in Bangkok's Bang Na area, Chon Buri and Nonthaburi."

Charupong Ruengsuwans resort found with a cache of weapons.

troops arrested 22 armed suspects and seized a large cache of arms on May 23 in Khon Kaen also showing that thaksin controls the violent militia uprising

180 M67s, 27 RPG rounds found in Chonburi

A joint raid by police, troops and and administrative officials led by Pol Col Nipon Hemsalamad, the Singha Nakhon police chief, conducted a search in a house in Singha Nakhon district on Monday morning. After the raid, police said they found and seized an M16 rifle with 73 rounds of ammunition, a 9mm pistol with 28 rounds, an M26 hand grenade and two methamphetamine pills.

More than 3,000 people were rounded up and a large number of heavy weapons seized under a coordinated crackdown by police, military officials and civilian volunteers

So far we have a partisan military that has so far paid farmers. Proactively made progress in Phuket by arresting taxi scam culprits. Improved "Thai Confidence" and through their actions consumer sentiment is recovering with stocks and baht gains. We have public input on the reform process. Not just PDRC or DEM input mind you. All the public. The streets are safer. Not just for PDRC mind you. For all the public. Terrorist attacks have stopped. Criminals are being arrested. Nobody who has been arrested by the Army has claimed anything but professional treatment. No tortures are reported and no disappearances.

So it seems instead of some celebrating this fact that the military are showing no bias and having made 100% more progress in removing weapons and potential terrorists than the PTP they are instead denounced by some and their hard work downplayed (as in your reply to GeorgeO) and most glaringly their motives questioned. (as in your reply to me)

I feel the military could remove every weapon from Thailand, reform the country brilliantly and restore a democracy that is faultless and there will still be some bitter people in the shadows that spout the army are evil and partisan.

Well that is why there is reconciliation before reform and before true democracy.

So when a tired slogan is stated like "PTP logic" it coincides with the tiring pessimistic attitude that some have toward anyone or anything that does not suit the PTP agenda.

The PTP/ UDD started this attitude with the DEM's in 2010.

They worked there way through the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the Environmentalists, the corn farmer, rubber farmers, rice farmers, medical association, rural teachers, academics, Supa, global economists, IMF, private banks, GSB, the EC, AoT, the courts, bangkok middle class, business owner, state enterprise staff, Buddhist monks, civil servants, labor unions, Green Politics group, Thai Constitution Protection Association, The Thai press, NIDA poll, Bangkok Poll between 2011 to 2013.

​And it is now currently the military in 2014 which underscores your narrative which is projected into the forum in an albeit subtle way.

Take care and may peace and reconciliation be with you.

<EDIT> Just read your post above. Like I said, the pessimistic attitude is tiring.

If my posts tire you, you are at liberty to ignore them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings.

But since you tired yourself with that lengthy reply....

I was responding to a rather specific point regarding current freedom of press, which like it or not, is officially curbed.

There was no praise for the investigative abilities or journalistic prowess of Thai media, nor a claim that all was rosy

under the PTP government. The main point was that the news are currently officially controlled and moderated. It can

be said that there are good reasons for it, and that is fine, but that is a different claim - one which I did not take issue

with.

I did not, "glaringly" or otherwise, bring the Army's motives into this, nor into any of the other posts I made here.

Not quite sure what you found pessimistic about this part, really.

Then you go on to say "The military to date...", linking a host of reports which were all over the news.

Although I repeatedly mention in my posts that confiscating illegal weapons is a good thing, and that the red-shirts

are rightfully the main target of this searches, you somehow decide that I "denounce" and "downplay" the army's

efforts. If anything I was downplaying GeorgeO's somewhat hyperbole post - basically that the amount of weapons

and ammunition caught so far is not exactly indicative of a seriously organized attempt at instigating a real civil war

(do note the "so far"), and that the army is yet to make any public accusations implicating PTP/red-shirt leaders (do

not the "yet").

The bit about lack of concentrated information regarding figures stands - compiling a list (as you did) is not always

accurate nor comfortable. There were a few times were reports were wrong or inaccurate, overlaps, and no follow

ups. This is possibly an issue more to do with Thai media.

Again, not really pessimistic - quite the opposite even: good that the army is able to pick up the weapons and arrest

offenders, good that the supposed underground movement seems neither well organized nor very capable.

I do not know that there is an active, ongoing process of formulating reforms, nor which specific reforms are on the

table. There are, as there were before, certain suggestion, assurances and ideas floated. It was said the public views

will be represented - lets see how that in which manner is this applied and who is included before announcing it.

Do point me out to where I laid praise on PTP government, or where I claimed the current situation (under the coup

leadership) is bad. I don't sing their praises same way I don't cheer for most governments, nor do I condemn them -

partly because it is not advised to do so, and mostly because I am well aware of whom they replaced. Some of their

actions so far were very positive, this is true. Still remains to be seen how this pans out, though.

I do not think that the army is evil, and I'm not bitter. These are, once again, your imagination and sneaky insinuations.

Same goes for your assertion that I support (or supported) the PTP. I get that lumping everyone in neat groups makes

life easier for some, and that repeating the same cut and paste lines saves time and the effort of considering another's

point of view.

Some people find it hard to accept that while they jump up and down, waive their pom-poms and cheer for whomever,

there can be others who might hold a somewhat more reserved view, without them being totally in opposition to that

cheerleader squad. Hard to make this clear to people with dichotomous world view - black and white, good vs. bad,

us and them, friend or foe.

Reconciliation is not about people coming around to your point of view, its more about meeting somewhere in between.

[bkkfaranguy]

Hang in there Morch, there are some very hard core extremest here on TV that go by the montra your either with us or against mentality and if you don't adhere to that you get labeled red! But back on topic would love to see the military go after the flow of arms in the south with the same type of enthusiasm.

[djjamie]

they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand

So that narrows it down to Zimbabwe or Sudan then…Both being an elected govt that abuse democracy post elections.

Love your other quote too

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries.

I have heard it all when it does not suit the PTP agenda. Fake farmers. Fake monks. Fake red shirts. Fake ID cards. Fake police. But never fake news reports that don't suit the PTP agenda.

That my friend is undoubtably, unequivocally, without question PTP logic right there. AND I LOVE IT!!!

PTP, red-shirts, and PDRC all used the "fake" card when things did not suit them. Nothing to be proud about, and

not endemic to one of the sides. Non of them are in charge, by the way.

The fact that the press is not free now is a fact, which the generals themselves openly concede. Could be a called

a temporary measure or a step back in order to step forward - doesn't matter the fact that this is a reality at present.

That is not to say that the news regarding those weapons (and others) are "fake", just that there is currently one

narrative, one version, one public view on things. It may be correct, but it cannot be disputed. So in this meaning,

no, the press is not free.

Whatever the situation of the press was under the PTP's rule, is one thing. The present is another.

Basically, another version of "but...but...PTP" (with the unnecessary tired slogan about PTP logic).

Wonderful and the press was relatively free before the 22nd of May and not one report of weapons caches was in the media anywhere and not one report of arrests of militants in the media. One could suggest the PTP had an agenda not unlike what some allure too with the military yet the PTP did not make any or very minimal progress in uncovering anything of the extent the Junta has and rest assured if the PTP did uncover the extent of weapons and militia arrests that the Junta did the narrative by the "red shirt" sympathizers on TVF or in the general public would be very different to what they are spouting now.

The military to date have;

Seized the weapons in the above OP.

Also today - Police in the lower Central Plains area have arrested 121 people wanted on old arrest warrants, seized more than 200 illegal guns and about 2,600 bullets over the past seven days.

A few days ago concerned citizens were worried about weapons the PDRC dumped in a canal. The military investigated. They discovered a body and a cache of weapons. It was reported by the media and all fingers point at PDRC / PCAD protestors or guards.

Fire arms seized in Samot Sahkon. Lady admitted they were for protests in Bangkok. UDD ID’s etc found at scene. Subsequently a few days later after ballistic tests it was discovered the machine gun matched that which was used in the Trat attacks

"the RDG-5 grenades (same grenades used in Trat attack as well) had the same lot number as those used in previous attacks in Bangkok's Bang Na area, Chon Buri and Nonthaburi."

Charupong Ruengsuwans resort found with a cache of weapons.

troops arrested 22 armed suspects and seized a large cache of arms on May 23 in Khon Kaen also showing that thaksin controls the violent militia uprising

180 M67s, 27 RPG rounds found in Chonburi

A joint raid by police, troops and and administrative officials led by Pol Col Nipon Hemsalamad, the Singha Nakhon police chief, conducted a search in a house in Singha Nakhon district on Monday morning. After the raid, police said they found and seized an M16 rifle with 73 rounds of ammunition, a 9mm pistol with 28 rounds, an M26 hand grenade and two methamphetamine pills.

More than 3,000 people were rounded up and a large number of heavy weapons seized under a coordinated crackdown by police, military officials and civilian volunteers

So far we have a partisan military that has so far paid farmers. Proactively made progress in Phuket by arresting taxi scam culprits. Improved "Thai Confidence" and through their actions consumer sentiment is recovering with stocks and baht gains. We have public input on the reform process. Not just PDRC or DEM input mind you. All the public. The streets are safer. Not just for PDRC mind you. For all the public. Terrorist attacks have stopped. Criminals are being arrested. Nobody who has been arrested by the Army has claimed anything but professional treatment. No tortures are reported and no disappearances.

So it seems instead of some celebrating this fact that the military are showing no bias and having made 100% more progress in removing weapons and potential terrorists than the PTP they are instead denounced by some and their hard work downplayed (as in your reply to GeorgeO) and most glaringly their motives questioned. (as in your reply to me)

I feel the military could remove every weapon from Thailand, reform the country brilliantly and restore a democracy that is faultless and there will still be some bitter people in the shadows that spout the army are evil and partisan.

Well that is why there is reconciliation before reform and before true democracy.

So when a tired slogan is stated like "PTP logic" it coincides with the tiring pessimistic attitude that some have toward anyone or anything that does not suit the PTP agenda.

The PTP/ UDD started this attitude with the DEM's in 2010.

They worked there way through the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the Environmentalists, the corn farmer, rubber farmers, rice farmers, medical association, rural teachers, academics, Supa, global economists, IMF, private banks, GSB, the EC, AoT, the courts, bangkok middle class, business owner, state enterprise staff, Buddhist monks, civil servants, labor unions, Green Politics group, Thai Constitution Protection Association, The Thai press, NIDA poll, Bangkok Poll between 2011 to 2013.

​And it is now currently the military in 2014 which underscores your narrative which is projected into the forum in an albeit subtle way.

Take care and may peace and reconciliation be with you.

<EDIT> Just read your post above. Like I said, the pessimistic attitude is tiring.

If my posts tire you, you are at liberty to ignore them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings.

But since you tired yourself with that lengthy reply....

I was responding to a rather specific point regarding current freedom of press, which like it or not, is officially curbed.

There was no praise for the investigative abilities or journalistic prowess of Thai media, nor a claim that all was rosy

under the PTP government. The main point was that the news are currently officially controlled and moderated. It can

be said that there are good reasons for it, and that is fine, but that is a different claim - one which I did not take issue

with.

I did not, "glaringly" or otherwise, bring the Army's motives into this, nor into any of the other posts I made here.

Not quite sure what you found pessimistic about this part, really.

Then you go on to say "The military to date...", linking a host of reports which were all over the news.

Although I repeatedly mention in my posts that confiscating illegal weapons is a good thing, and that the red-shirts

are rightfully the main target of this searches, you somehow decide that I "denounce" and "downplay" the army's

efforts. If anything I was downplaying GeorgeO's somewhat hyperbole post - basically that the amount of weapons

and ammunition caught so far is not exactly indicative of a seriously organized attempt at instigating a real civil war

(do note the "so far"), and that the army is yet to make any public accusations implicating PTP/red-shirt leaders (do

not the "yet").

The bit about lack of concentrated information regarding figures stands - compiling a list (as you did) is not always

accurate nor comfortable. There were a few times were reports were wrong or inaccurate, overlaps, and no follow

ups. This is possibly an issue more to do with Thai media.

Again, not really pessimistic - quite the opposite even: good that the army is able to pick up the weapons and arrest

offenders, good that the supposed underground movement seems neither well organized nor very capable.

I do not know that there is an active, ongoing process of formulating reforms, nor which specific reforms are on the

table. There are, as there were before, certain suggestion, assurances and ideas floated. It was said the public views

will be represented - lets see how that in which manner is this applied and who is included before announcing it.

Do point me out to where I laid praise on PTP government, or where I claimed the current situation (under the coup

leadership) is bad. I don't sing their praises same way I don't cheer for most governments, nor do I condemn them -

partly because it is not advised to do so, and mostly because I am well aware of whom they replaced. Some of their

actions so far were very positive, this is true. Still remains to be seen how this pans out, though.

I do not think that the army is evil, and I'm not bitter. These are, once again, your imagination and sneaky insinuations.

Same goes for your assertion that I support (or supported) the PTP. I get that lumping everyone in neat groups makes

life easier for some, and that repeating the same cut and paste lines saves time and the effort of considering another's

point of view.

Some people find it hard to accept that while they jump up and down, waive their pom-poms and cheer for whomever,

there can be others who might hold a somewhat more reserved view, without them being totally in opposition to that

cheerleader squad. Hard to make this clear to people with dichotomous world view - black and white, good vs. bad,

us and them, friend or foe.

Reconciliation is not about people coming around to your point of view, its more about meeting somewhere in between.

Apart from your assumptions that I was referring to you and your lack of understanding about your subtly (obviously unconscious since you are not even aware of it) pessimistic view of the military I enjoyed your post.

Good to see some can reply without "You're a fascist pig"…"You're garbage"..or my favorite "There are some hardcore extremists on TV"

[ILOOKFORWORK]

Guess the army can now regain control of its m-79 grenade launchers......

Perhaps they never lost control of them

[IamNoone88]

Law and Order is finally starting to be restored. Great work. Keep it up and more of it.

[GeorgeO]

Irrespective of who's weapons they are it is yet more weapons that the PTP and CAPO were unwilling to uncover through either an agenda driven lethargy or through incompetence. Either way, one can conclude they are either affiliated with the militia or they are simply incompetent.

After seeing the rice scheme as well as Nattawut who is an accused terrorist UDD leader sharing that role along side being a PTP minister I suspect a mixture of both.

Well done again General and even less weapons on the street that can kill or maim my family.

Cannot deny the progress the democracy restoration team have made.

How much more proof do the terrorist sympathizers on here need to see before they will admit that what Gen. Prayuth has put into motion was totally necessary...?!

It is abundantly clear that the PTP, the UDD and the inactive police force were setting this country up for a full-blown civil war. All of them must now be ready to take responsibility for their actions.

Strange that the TVF UDD sympathizers have stopped even trying to put some spin on these discoveries; mind you, I suppose they fully accept Wanchai's explanation for these weapons.....

"The suspect, Wanchai Theerarattanakhet, reportedly admitted he used guns for sports but said the war weapons found in his home were not his"...!!

Do you think that the weapons found so far are sufficient to win a full-blown war? Or even to start one?

Are there any public allegations by the army that the weapons found proof such intentions on part of the

RTP, PTP and UDD leadership?

And before you call me something charming like "terrorist sympathizer" - I will say it again, it is good indeed

that the weapons are confiscated, and no, does not look like people had them as collector items. That said,

it is still a far cry from a massive organized effort to bring the country on its knees. If it was, though, and if

this was its full extent - than perhaps we can all take it down a notch, not very impressive as underground

movements go.

On the same note, the current reports are mostly centered on searches connected with red-shirts. Fair enough,

they probably earned that. Would be interesting to know if searches in PDRC strongholds will yield similar results.

I think that the weapons discovered so far are of sufficient concern to suggest that there are huge stockpiles that have yet to be discovered.

Exactly how many weapons would you like to see before agreeing that it's a matter of concern ... a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand...?!

And please don't be so defensive...! I'm not about to start referring to you as a "terrorist sympathizer", unless of course your posts start to reflect such a stance...!!

[coma]

It appears a few armed criminals are running scared and dumping weapons and ammunition in rubbish dumps to avoid the wrath of the military justice system.

Here is some footage of three Thai made pistols, two M18 claymore anti pers mines, 13 M79 40mm grenades and a few various hand grenades found dumped in Rayong Province yesterday.

[Eric Loh]

So what's the beef about large of haul of weapons seized or discovered without a clue who they belongs to. And just what big achievement as weapons seized can easily be replaced. Stop the weapon trade and that will be a big achievement. Get those big shots behind arms deal, that will be a big achievement. This just a vicious cycle and weapons will appear again at the next conflict, poltical impasse and sure enough we will have a coup to hold our hands and lead us to safety. The pattern is so bloody predicted and obvious and seem to made some PDRC sympathizers happy.

[djjamie]

So what's the beef about large of haul of weapons seized or discovered without a clue who they belongs to. And just what big achievement as weapons seized can easily be replaced. Stop the weapon trade and that will be a big achievement. Get those big shots behind arms deal, that will be a big achievement. This just a vicious cycle and weapons will appear again at the next conflict, poltical impasse and sure enough we will have a coup to hold our hands and lead us to safety. The pattern is so bloody predicted and obvious and seem to made some PDRC sympathizers happy.

And you have highlighted the traits of a stage 2 specimen.

Thank you.

[Traveling Sailor]

"The suspect, Wanchai Theerarattanakhet, reportedly admitted he used guns for sports but said the war weapons found in his home were not his"

Quite possibly true. Could be he was just storing them for his friends in the "red army".

[Fat Haggis]

I doubt any inteligent self confessed extremist lunatic is ever going to put all his eggs in one basket and have the "mother of all caches" uncovered, you want to hide stuff, you make it as difficult as you can for the authorities, one or two weapons found doesn't sound like much, and at times not even newsworthy, so it would go un noticed, but if there's a cache with dozens of weapons, thousands of rounds of ammo, and pyrotechnics, then these are the headline grabbers.

There's also the art of deception, you leave a small breadcrumb for the authorities to "find" whilst your main supply is kept intact.

Thailand is awash with weapons, legal and illegal, the PDRC guards had to have had a supplier, have these "guard leaders" been identified by the Main PDRC leadership and "asked" for a source of their "popcorn" guns? Make no mistakes, the PDRC leadership are complicit in the use of illegal weapons, they "hired" those personnel, they even boasted of tightening up their "training" to minimise accidental shootings.

What happened to the guards that allegedly shot the "allegedly' drunk Army Colonel? at Issra's location? Have they pointed their fingers to their "arms supplier" ?

Getting ALL the weapons off the streets is a noble and grand idea, but the reality is that it's never going to happen, there will always be an illegal arms trade going on within the criminal fraternity.

People shouldn't assume that all the caches uncovered so far belong to the reds either

[robertson468]

Amazing that the solution was so easy. Change one letter in CAPO to NCPO and all of a sudden, the police become efficient 555.

Still, these finds are relatively small. This is the stuff that low-level and/or independent operatives have. Some of it is very old (but still dangerous). There are still weapons cashes out there that can supply a small army. Six thousand M-16 rifles were stolen at one time, along with associated ammunition, during the troubles of 2010, that have never surfaced. Also in 2010, a home-made weapons factory was shut down that was making launchers for M-79 grenades. If I remember correctly, there were more than 200 of those, either completed or had parts for and awaiting assembly. There must be a huge number of grenades to need that many launchers. Hate and a billion dollars can buy enough equipment to start a civil war. How many times have you heard/read the threat of civil war if this or that happened? I would expect Ko Tee (and others) knows were lots of war weapons are. While I appreciate that some war weapons are being found, I am not comforted because they are not finding the truly large cashes.

And they seem to be only fingering the foot soldiers and not those at the top of the chain who are giving the orders.

[Baerboxer]

As there is no longer free press and we have to trust whatever the army sends out as news it would be wise to think before we applaud them onto greater discoveries. Dare I say a not to effective PR campaign from an outfit that has its thinking and ideologies entrenched from over a century ago. They find these weapons caches and yet when the C n C was asked many questions , by the foreign journalists, he muttered one word and walked away.

I have not doubt there are serious weapons out there, on both sides, whatever they find will not scrape the surface. Its a scary thought when you are trying to control the masses to accept your doctrine, that one might have your name on it.

Doubt we will see here as news is censored but just saw one of Thaksins aides on Australia Network discussing the setting up of a "network" of peaceful resistance to the current junta. All he would say was that it would not be in a ASEAN country but they would have a base in a country which has a democracy model they wish for Thailand and have free unfettered access to the press.

Has the fightback begun?

A non ASEAN country, with a democracy model that Thaksin likes? Is it North Korea? I bet 100% of the people would turn out and vote 100% for Thaksin as president for life in his idea of democracy too!

What is really disturbing, if your comments are factual, is that Australia allows air space to an "aide" of a convicted criminal fraudster on the run from his conviction and 15 outstanding pending court cases. Did they mention that, in the interests of fair balanced reporting?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Robby nz]

The red tactic of deviating from the subject and filling up a topic with screeds of garbage gets very tiresome and not worth reading.

However back to the subject :

Posted Today, 12:07

AK assault rifle, flares, bombs left at Sattahip roadside in Chon Buri; 254 cartridges in fertilizer bag found in Sing Buri /MCOT

[Morch]

Amazing that the solution was so easy. Change one letter in CAPO to NCPO and all of a sudden, the police become efficient 555.

Still, these finds are relatively small. This is the stuff that low-level and/or independent operatives have. Some of it is very old (but still dangerous). There are still weapons cashes out there that can supply a small army. Six thousand M-16 rifles were stolen at one time, along with associated ammunition, during the troubles of 2010, that have never surfaced. Also in 2010, a home-made weapons factory was shut down that was making launchers for M-79 grenades. If I remember correctly, there were more than 200 of those, either completed or had parts for and awaiting assembly. There must be a huge number of grenades to need that many launchers. Hate and a billion dollars can buy enough equipment to start a civil war. How many times have you heard/read the threat of civil war if this or that happened? I would expect Ko Tee (and others) knows were lots of war weapons are. While I appreciate that some war weapons are being found, I am not comforted because they are not finding the truly large cashes.

And they seem to be only fingering the foot soldiers and not those at the top of the chain who are giving the orders.

I would guess that is a matter of time. Works like this with most investigations. Bottom to top.

Question is if they can prove links and if the familiar rituals of backroom face saving deals will be upheld.

I hope this time would be different.

[Fat Haggis]

air space space, or air time? they're both have very different meanings , although I suspect you meant "air time" as in access to the media, I think that the Australians can make up their own minds as to who they let speak don't you?

The whole Government is exile is a stupid idea, and I doubt it will ever take off, but until Australia officially recognises the Junta as the official Governing body in Thailand, then perhaps they still view the overthrow of the PTP Government as an illegal act? I dunno, don't really care, don't really care who speaks on the worlds stage either, there's a lot more worrying issues out there that bother me...like where am I going to get some milk from for my morning coffee, when there's non left in the camp!!

[Morch]

Yes. When the label fits change the subject and turn in onto me.

I love it! Like clockwork. Stage 2 written all over it!!

<EDIT> PS Don't reply in a condescending way.

Rich.

You make a whole post that is nothing but an Ad hominem argument, then whine when you get a similar response.

Congratulations on your new cut and paste phrase.

Stage 2.

You make a whole post about, The army are great, BUT. I congratulate the army, BUT. Great that the weapons are off the street, BUT. Great they are doing searches connected with red shirts………..BUT!!!!

I think you don't support the red shirts, BUT!

Stage 3? Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock...

My posts were on topic, whether you agree with them or not.

You are the one who shifted the focus to personal level.

Can't you drop it and address issues without attempting to tag posters?

[Baerboxer]

Hang in there Morch, there are some very hard core extremest here on TV that go by the montra your either with us or against mentality and if you don't adhere to that you get labeled red! But back on topic would love to see the military go after the flow of arms in the south with the same type of enthusiasm.

Indeed there are - and some of those "extremists" as you quaintly call them support Thaksin and his various regimes in the same opinionated way as those that oppose him.

The struggle in Thailand is between the old elite families and their grip on power and the "new" money gang headed by the Shins who want to take it over from them.

We put this into our own framework of left and right wing to facilitate understanding in the metaphors and analogy of our own worldviews. It is not a left / right. socialist / capitalist battle at all. It is two gangs based on feudal Chinese family hierarchies vying for power and to control the wealth of a country as if it is their own. If the military can mange to reform this and give the Thai people a real choice of non aligned clan based political parties with real reforms they will be real heroes. Bloody hard to do mind

The South - and how do you propose that is done? Have you any experience in counter insurgency operations? Or studied other countries with similar issued over the years?

[wolf5370]

I think this just shows that the Thai people is not ready to stop killing. Somebody should teach them a lesson. The saw it before in all neighbouring countries, do they want the same here ? Primitive people has to be dealt with in a primitive way.

Another arrogant imperialist. American or British I assume. There are 'primitive' people everywhere. I should know, as I'm teaching in a deprived area of the UK. Not for long though. Returning to the land of smiles where teachers are respected and students know their place!! I would class someone as primitive if they had a closed, arrogant mind like yours!!

yes, how dare a student ask a teacher a question or query their answers, especially when a year 12 student from Australia would have more knowledge than most of the thai teachers. If there is one thing I have seen first hand here it is the amount of thai teachers that are so far below a decent teaching standard along with their totally arrogant attitudes, after reading your comment you would fit in here very well. Although the original post may well be wrong your reply shows that much contempt its not funny, when people think that shooting/bombing/killing people that have different opinions to them is the answer then you do have to wonder at their intelligence or lack of it and that rests primarily with the education of the populace and the so called teachers that worry more about face than teaching the students.

Interesting that Claffey, being a teacher in the UK, cannot recognise from either the poor English or the name (Espinoza) that perhaps it is unlikely to be either a Brit or a Yank, as he "assumed".

[Baerboxer]

air space space, or air time? they're both have very different meanings , although I suspect you meant "air time" as in access to the media, I think that the Australians can make up their own minds as to who they let speak don't you?

The whole Government is exile is a stupid idea, and I doubt it will ever take off, but until Australia officially recognises the Junta as the official Governing body in Thailand, then perhaps they still view the overthrow of the PTP Government as an illegal act? I dunno, don't really care, don't really care who speaks on the worlds stage either, there's a lot more worrying issues out there that bother me...like where am I going to get some milk from for my morning coffee, when there's non left in the camp!!

Camp - you camp out in Thailand. Stay out of the sun, it dangerous and my affect your cognitive abilities.

Air space is used figuratively by the media when deciding whether to let people actually speak - that usually involves the policy of the channel and may involve their view, or how they want to be perceived to view, ethics, morals, etc. These days, a lot also include rationale whereby certain topics/people/contents have to be cleared through the lawyers as part of risk management and mitigation. Air time is the operational exercise of allocating broadcast time to an individual topic.

The Australians are perfectly entitled to decide for themselves. Just as I am perfectly entitled to express the view that they allow the views of a criminal fugitive to be represented legitimately. All part of the watering down of legal process and replacement by some kind of justification in the media.PR firms are more valuable than lawyers now!

Unfortunately media outlets are not always interested in providing balanced unbiased reports anymore.

Even if any country did still recognize PTP has the legitimate government of Thailand, and not one country has so far, why would you allow an elected non member of the government, who happens to be a convicted criminal fugitive facing considerably more serious charges, speak through one of his aides?

As you say up to them. And, after all your milk supply is of far more concern to you.

[Baerboxer]

I think this just shows that the Thai people is not ready to stop killing. Somebody should teach them a lesson. The saw it before in all neighbouring countries, do they want the same here ? Primitive people has to be dealt with in a primitive way.

Another arrogant imperialist. American or British I assume. There are 'primitive' people everywhere. I should know, as I'm teaching in a deprived area of the UK. Not for long though. Returning to the land of smiles where teachers are respected and students know their place!! I would class someone as primitive if they had a closed, arrogant mind like yours!!

yes, how dare a student ask a teacher a question or query their answers, especially when a year 12 student from Australia would have more knowledge than most of the thai teachers. If there is one thing I have seen first hand here it is the amount of thai teachers that are so far below a decent teaching standard along with their totally arrogant attitudes, after reading your comment you would fit in here very well. Although the original post may well be wrong your reply shows that much contempt its not funny, when people think that shooting/bombing/killing people that have different opinions to them is the answer then you do have to wonder at their intelligence or lack of it and that rests primarily with the education of the populace and the so called teachers that worry more about face than teaching the students.

Interesting that Claffey, being a teacher in the UK, cannot recognise from either the poor English or the name (Espinoza) that perhaps it is unlikely to be either a Brit or a Yank, as he "assumed".

Claffey seems more like an American or Brit basher. Ironic given the date to day. Without them he certainly wouldn't be free to post his rhetoric.

Espinoza - more irony. He writes such a post and then calls other people primitive!

[djjamie]

Rich.

You make a whole post that is nothing but an Ad hominem argument, then whine when you get a similar response.

Congratulations on your new cut and paste phrase.

Stage 2.

You make a whole post about, The army are great, BUT. I congratulate the army, BUT. Great that the weapons are off the street, BUT. Great they are doing searches connected with red shirts………..BUT!!!!

I think you don't support the red shirts, BUT!

Stage 3? Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock...

My posts were on topic, whether you agree with them or not.

You are the one who shifted the focus to personal level.

Can't you drop it and address issues without attempting to tag posters?

I did not say your posts were not on topic.

I did not shift it to a personal level. I simply stated to GeorgeO (not you) what your style of argument was. Nothing to do with you. I even stated "I am in no way denouncing him, but am only highlighting studied and proven stages of this technique."

It seems you are now frustrated thus why your replies are not making any sense so I feel it best you take a breather and regroup.

Take care and may reconciliation be with you.

And back on topic. Well done to the General for removing all these weapons off the streets. They have certainly taken the right step in making Thailand safer from any armed militia groups.

[Fat Haggis]

air space space, or air time? they're both have very different meanings , although I suspect you meant "air time" as in access to the media, I think that the Australians can make up their own minds as to who they let speak don't you?

The whole Government is exile is a stupid idea, and I doubt it will ever take off, but until Australia officially recognises the Junta as the official Governing body in Thailand, then perhaps they still view the overthrow of the PTP Government as an illegal act? I dunno, don't really care, don't really care who speaks on the worlds stage either, there's a lot more worrying issues out there that bother me...like where am I going to get some milk from for my morning coffee, when there's non left in the camp!!

Camp - you camp out in Thailand. Stay out of the sun, it dangerous and my affect your cognitive abilities.

Air space is used figuratively by the media when deciding whether to let people actually speak - that usually involves the policy of the channel and may involve their view, or how they want to be perceived to view, ethics, morals, etc. These days, a lot also include rationale whereby certain topics/people/contents have to be cleared through the lawyers as part of risk management and mitigation. Air time is the operational exercise of allocating broadcast time to an individual topic.

The Australians are perfectly entitled to decide for themselves. Just as I am perfectly entitled to express the view that they allow the views of a criminal fugitive to be represented legitimately. All part of the watering down of legal process and replacement by some kind of justification in the media.PR firms are more valuable than lawyers now!

Unfortunately media outlets are not always interested in providing balanced unbiased reports anymore.

Even if any country did still recognize PTP has the legitimate government of Thailand, and not one country has so far, why would you allow an elected non member of the government, who happens to be a convicted criminal fugitive facing considerably more serious charges, speak through one of his aides?

As you say up to them. And, after all your milk supply is of far more concern to you.

LOL I'm at work, in a camp/compound out in Iraq, not home till the end of the month .. and a fresh delivery of milk duly arrived too!!

I do get where you're coming from, with the crux of your posting though