schengen visa (Spain)

[MaprangHolmes]

I will be going to Spain in October of this year and would like my wife to come with me, her UK settlement visa will expire in November 2014 will there be any issue with the Spanish embassy issuing a visa with her UK settlement visa expiring in November?

Thank you

[Donutz]

Why would there be any issue? Since you are married and assuming you are aUK national (any EU nationality except for Spain would do), you wife falls under the Freedom of Movement act, thus a visa should be issued quicly, with mimimum hassle and for free. See the following links for more info:

- Schengen Visa sticky: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724180-schengen-visa-faq/ - Especially the paragraphs and posts on EU/EEA family members.

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

- Recent topic on Spanish Schengen visa: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/731531-help-needed-please-for-spanish-tourist-visa-for-my-thai-wife-who-is-a-uk-resident-with-ilr/

In a nutshell: contact the Spanish embassy, don't go to VFS unless you see a benefit in doing so (Schengen applicants are at all times entitled to direct contact and applications with the embassy, though some aren't exactly informing people about those rights, which infact is in violation of the Visa rules, to which people ought to complain if you ask me with the EU Home Affairs depertment and other relevant authorities). Your wife has to show she is married to an EU national to proof the family relation, and make it evident that the two of you are indeed going to travel or joining eachother in Spain (via a statement by you, or if you like a ticket reservation etc.).

--------------------

And just for other readers who happen to be unmaried and wish to travel from the UK to Spain with their GF: If you were not married it would be slightly more difficult but not really that much different from a Schengen application from Thailand: convince the embassy that the intentions of travel (goal) are genuine, and that there are reasons (strong ties) to return. If ressidency or any other form of legal access to the UK were to be about to expire then they I bet they would want to see where she would be leaving to (back to TH?) followed by a "why? is the partner joining her there or ...?". Which could (should) all be adressed in a covering letter together with any supporting evidence.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Donutz

[MaprangHolmes]

Thank you for your reply the thing that concerned me, is that on the VFS web site it says as part of the documents required:

Passport or travel document valid for at least 3 months beyond the intended departure from Spain and with at least two full blank pages to affix the visa. Passport must not be older than 10 years regardless of the date of expiry.

UK residence permit and photocopy with a validity of at least 3 months beyond the intended departure from the Schengen area.

​So I took that as meaning that her UK settlement visa would need to be valid for 3 months after she would return from Spain which does seem a bit strange.

​may I ask do you know if the Spanish embassy will post the passport back? if a special delivery bag is provided or by paying a fee

Thank you

Edited June 8, 2014 by MaprangHolmes

[marksm]

If you are applying for a visa through vfs they won't let you apply unless you have it in writing from the embassy that it's ok to travel within the last 90 days of your wife's visa . My wife got turned away and we had to make another appointment

[MaprangHolmes]

If you are applying for a visa through vfs they won't let you apply unless you have it in writing from the embassy that it's ok to travel within the last 90 days of your wife's visa . My wife got turned away and we had to make another appointment

Thank you for the reply,I would assume that it would be better to apply at the embassy plus than it would be free.

[Donutz]

Indeed, don't go to VFS, waste of money and they aren't exactly the most competent people out there (just an optional handling agency). There is nothing in the rules that limite or forbits Schengen applications from people who are somewhere legally but in a temporary basis, let alone a ressidence permit that has yet to be extended.

The Handbook says:

2.8. Can a consulate accept an application from an applicant not residing in the jurisdiction of the consulate?

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 6

As a general rule, only applications from persons who reside legally in the jurisdiction of the competent consulate (as described in points 2.1-2.5) should be accepted

However, an application may be accepted from a person legally present but not residing - in the jurisdiction of the consulate where the application is submitted, if he can justify why the application could not be lodged at a consulate in his place of residence. It is for the consulate to appreciate whether the justification presented by the applicant is acceptable.

"Non-residing applicant" means an applicant who resides elsewhere but is legally present within the jurisdiction of the consulate where he submits the application.

"Legally present" means that the applicant is entitled to stay temporarily in the jurisdiction on the basis of the legislation of the third country where he is present either for a short stay or

[when he is allowed to stay for a longer period of time while maintaining his permanent residence in another third country.

Example: A Peruvian artist is scheduled to perform in Portugal on 25.5., and from 20.2. to 15.5 she is performing in Canada and the United States.

Under such circumstances a Portuguese consulate in Canada or the United States should allow the applicant to submit the application,because it would be impossible for her to apply while still in her country of residence given the rule of not applying for a visa earlier than three months before the date of the intended entry into the territory of the Member States.

Example: A Chinese professor has travelled to London to teach at a university summer school. During her stay, her father, who lives in France, falls seriously ill and in order to travel to France the Chinese woman applies for a visa at the French consulate in London.

The French consulate in London should deal with the application because it would be excessive to require the person concerned to return to her country of residence to apply for the visa.

Example: A Moroccan national who spends his holidays in Montreal (Canada) wishes to apply for a visa to travel to Germany at the German consulate in Montreal. He claims that the waiting time for obtaining an appointment for submitting the application at the German consulate in Rabat (Morocco) is too long.

The German consulate in Montreal should not accept to deal with the application, because the justification is unfounded.

Example: An accredited commercial intermediary lodges the applications of a group of Russian tourists at the Spanish Consulate General in Moscow. All of them will travel together to Spain for two weeks. The majority of them reside in the jurisdiction of the Spanish Consulate in Moscow while some others reside in the jurisdiction of the Spanish Consulate in Saint Petersburg.

The Spanish consulate in Moscow should deal with the applications.

Source: page 24/111 of the handbook.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_1620_en.pdf

As far postal return: I don't know if the Spaniards in the UK do. Some embassies do if you hand a pre adressed enveloppe with sufficient stamps and ofcourse all at your own risk.

Edit: it would be rather silly and against the rules not to allow an application of somebody with residency in the UK. If it were about to expire upon return to the UK, I'd ofcourse be extra careful in adressing the reasons for return to the UK such as explaining in the supporting letter that the UK ressidency will be extended after return and isn't something you can do right now (or perhaps the extention is already in the pipine, but no official confirmation yet, even better since you could then provide documents showing that the applicant has very good reasons to return and will soon be granted the new residency rights (extention).

Edited June 9, 2014 by Donutz

[Donutz]

What does matter is if the Traveldocument (passport) is valid long enough:

Travel document

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 12

4.1.1. What is the minimum duration of validity of travel documents that can be

accepted?

The travel document presented must be valid at least three months after the intended date of departure from the Member States in case a single-entry visa is applied for.

If a multiple-entry visa is applied for, the travel document must be valid three months after the last intended date of departure.

[MaprangHolmes]

I emailed the Spanish embassy and had this reply:

Dear Sir/Madam:

We would like to inform you that the Spanish Embassy is not in charge with the visas paperwork.

The Embassy in these cases delegates to the Consulates. The Spanish Government has two consulates in UK: Edinburgh and London.

Please, contact them through the following details, depending on the place where you are living.

• http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Pages/inicio.aspx

There is a link for appointments which is http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Pages/Appointments.aspx

if you click on the booking for a visa link it just takes you to VFS.

How do you book an appointment to get a visa without going to VFS?

There was a link in one of the threads that took you to a page that explained about posting all your documents to them and they will issue you with an appointment within 2 weeks but I am unable to find the thread.

Edited June 10, 2014 by MaprangHolmes

[Donutz]

- Assuming you wish to aplpy in London, contact the Spanish consulate in London instead. See:

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Pages/LocalizacionContacto.aspx

Not really showing much service that they don't make an appointment for you with the consulate or provide a direct contact adress (website, mail, adress). Even worse and in violation of the EU Schengen rules is the link directing you to VFS.

Contact the consulate in London for an appointment within 2 weeks. Everything should go smoothly after that.

After the application I'd sent a mail to EU Home Affairs and complain about their unhelpfullness and violation of the rules including directing you to VFS, hope the application itself will go smoothly (it should if the Spaniards are comptent and abide EU regulations!), if not complaint about that too:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/who-we-are/contact-us/index_en.htm

All Spanish embassies and consulates across the globe can be found via:

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/en/ServiciosAlCiudadano/Paginas/embajadasconsulados.aspx

Edited June 10, 2014 by Donutz

[MaprangHolmes]

These are the requirements listed on the Spanish consulate in Edinburgh

1 DEPENDANTS OF EU/EEA (Including UK citizens)

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Under Directive 2004/38/EC and according to “Real Decreto 240/2007, 16 February”, Family members of an EU/EEA National in possession of a valid UK Residence Card are not required of a visa to enter Spain when travelling with the EU/EEA National or joining him/her in Spain. Otherwise, a visa will be still required (“Real Decreto 1161/2009, 10th July 2009”).

For spouses and/or children of Spanish Nationals the above condition applies providing that the marriage and/or birth is registered according with the Spanish Civil Register (original “Libro de Familia”).

Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions:

1.1. Passport or travel document valid for at least 3 months beyond the intended departure from Spain and with at least two full blank pages to affix the visa.

1.2. One completed and signed visa application form.

1.3. One recent passport colour photograph. (No more than six months old)

1.4. Original and photocopy of EU/EEA passport or National ID card of the EU/EEA National

1.5. UK residence permit. (Valid UK Visa stamped on this or previous passport or Residency Card). This residency must be valid at least three months after the exit from the Schengen Area

1.6. Original and copy of “Libro de Familia” for dependants of Spanish Nationals.

1.7. Original and copy of the marriage certificate translated into Spanish or English.

1.8. Dependant children must have original and copy of Birth certificate translated into Spanish or English.

1.9. Dependant ascendants (parents) must present the original birth certificate for the son/daughter proving the family link to the EEA/EU national and copy translated into Spanish or English.

1.10. Original and copy of proof of residence (such as recent bank statements or household bills with the name of both parties).

1.11. Proof of confirmed return ticket to the UK or to the country of final destination

It is 1.5 that concerns me, I can not see why her settlement visa would need to be valid for 3 months after her return to the UK!

I think I may have missed this part: Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions: her visa says she is my spouse so I would assume that because it says that then these requirements are not vaild (ANY IDEAS?)

Edited June 11, 2014 by MaprangHolmes

[Donutz]

These are the requirements listed on the Spanish consulate in Edinburgh

1 DEPENDANTS OF EU/EEA (Including UK citizens)

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Under Directive 2004/38/EC and according to “Real Decreto 240/2007, 16 February”, Family members of an EU/EEA National in possession of a valid UK Residence Card are not required of a visa to enter Spain when travelling with the EU/EEA National or joining him/her in Spain. Otherwise, a visa will be still required (“Real Decreto 1161/2009, 10th July 2009”).

1.3. One recent passport colour photograph. (No more than six months old)

1.4. Original and photocopy of EU/EEA passport or National ID card of the EU/EEA National

1.5. UK residence permit. (Valid UK Visa stamped on this or previous passport or Residency Card). This residency must be valid at least three months after the exit from the Schengen Area

It is 1.5 that concerns me, I can not see why her settlement visa would need to be valid for 3 months after her return to the UK!

I think I may have missed this part: Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions: her visa says she is my spouse so I would assume that because it says that then these requirements are not vaild (ANY IDEAS?)

1.5 Seems like to me. It most certainly doesn't apply for married couples traveling or joining eachother anyway (EU/EEA spouse, only need to provide evidence of family relatiob bascially, see earlier posts). Since there isn't any such rule in the Visa Code or handbook either, I don't think such a made up requirement could be applied to unmarried couples, the whole demand doesn't make any sense at all. All that matters is if the applicant will be able to return to the UK, even if it the residence card would expire soon after return, that wouldn't be of conern to the Spaniards... And it doesn't say your actual residence rights expired either... If you are unmarried and wish to be sure, contact Your Europa Advice via the "EU travel documents" link found in the sticky. Via " need more help?"

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm or http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm (non family and EU family respectively).

The " family member of an EU/EEA national" on the card applies to people who did the Surrender Sighn route (also known as EU route, French route, Belgian route, ...). They don't need a visa at all. UK citizens who followed the normal immigration route still need a visa for their spouse but it should be granted swiftly, with minimum hassle (barely any docs required) and for free.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Donutz

[MaprangHolmes]

Thank you for the reply and your time, I emailed the consulate in London and this was the reply I got:

Regarding your e-mail you can book the appointment at VFS or if you prefer to address her application directly to this Consulate General she should write a letter (phone calls, fax and e-mails will not be accepted) to this Consulate that can be sent by post or delivered in person. The applicant will be given an appointment on the first available date and in strict order of presentation. An appointment will usually be given within 2 weeks after you apply. Please state clearly the purpose of your visit, dates of travel, contact details (full name, address, email and day time telephone number) and enclose only photocopies of your passport, UK residence visa, (marriage certificate, birth certificate, if applicable) and a stamped SAE. Please do not send or hand in any original documents until you asked to do so by the Visa Department.

I hope this may also help someone else in the same situation.

Edited June 11, 2014 by MaprangHolmes

[Donutz]

By postal mail? Lol. They are cutting their own fingers since the appointment MUST be granted within 2 days of the day the request was made. If you send your request and it takes 2-3 days to arrive and be read then that is the embassies loss....

2. Applicants may be required to obtain an appointment for
the lodging of an application. The appointment shall, as a rule,
take place within a period of two weeks from the date when the
appointment was requested.

Source: Schengen Visa Code 810/2009

3.2.2. What is the maximum deadline for obtaining an appointment?
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 9(2)
The deadlines for obtaining an appointment shall as a rule not exceed two weeks. The
capacity of Member States' consulates to handle visa applications should be adapted so that
this deadline is complied with even during peak seasons.

Source: Visa Handbook

I wonder if they can restrict appointments to post only, especially for family members of EU nationals:

3.3. Granting every facility
Member States shall grant third country family members of EU citizens falling under the
Directive every facility to obtain the necessary visa. This notion must be interpreted as
ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the
obligations arising out of the right of free movement and afford to such visa applicants the
best conditions to obtain the entry visa.

3.4. Processing time
The visas must be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure and
the procedures put in place by Member States (with or without outsourcing) must allow to
distinguish between the rights of a third country national who is a family member of an EU
citizen and other third country nationals. The former must be treated more favourably than the
latter.

Processing times for a visa application lodged by a third-country national who is a family
member of an EU citizen covered by the Directive going beyond 15 days should be
exceptional and duly justified.

Source: Visa Handbook.

[Donutz]

My previous post #11 "1.5 Seems like to me." had the word b0ll0cks in it, didn't know the forum filtered it out...

As far as the Spanish consulate/embassy is concerned, they are making the following violations:

- Visa application information is not presented on the Spanish embassy website, the main location you'd go for visa information and applications... Not even a notice to contact the Consulate...

- The consulat's information is rather limited (this and this).

- They do mention you are entitled to a direct application but it doesn't sound efficient at all (written letter delivered in person or sent by post) to discourage direct applications. This may very well not be acceptable under directive 810/2009.

- No mention that applicants are entitled to an appointment within 2 weeks maximum (two weeks counting from the day the request was made).

- No mention that the procedure should take 15 days maximum as a standard, with individual applications possibly being delayed to a total of 30 days (missing docs, questions) or 60 days (exceptional cases).

- No list of what the requirements are for the various types of applicants

- Hardly a "fast and smooth service without hassle" for spouses of UK citizens, even though EU nationals and their family should be granted every facility to apply ASAP.

- The VFS site mentions various documents that are absolutely not required for EU spouses, the birth certificate + passports of the couple + something to show you will be traveling together or joining eachother in Spain (such as declaration by the EU national, optionally: transportation ticket reservations) should be enough. The request to show residency rights in the UK could be legit even though non residing Thai's (read: short time visitors) should be able to apply aswell if they can show there is a reasonable reason to do so (going back to Thailand for the application being unreasonable). The "your ressidence card should not expire within 3 months of return to UK" doesn't make sense at all and I strongly suspect it violate the EU rules.

- Overall, lots of room for improvement for both general applicants and especially EU citizens (British people) who wish to travel to Spain with their Thai spouse. Feedback/complaints could (should) be made to the embassy, Spanish ministry and EU Home Affairs if this lack of service and proper information is to change in the future.

Hopefully Brits will post their experiences on the forum and share their experience aswell with the EU (who could and will act if an EU member state is not providing the level of surfaces that is required from them by EU regulations).