Dowry

keithkarmann · June 10, 2014

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you would be making a large mistake. at your age, you are being taken for a ride. dowry? i guess you mean sinsod. i don't know anyone, Thai or farang, who has ever paid such a thing. find a lady closer to your own age who likes you for who you are, and not what you can do for her and her family.

how does this relate C.M. anyway?

why do you "pay towards her family already"???

Very good question Oscar.

My girlfriend wants to go out to work to get her own money (she has always had jobs to support her family before she met me) but I want her at home with me so I give her an allowance out of which she gives her parents some money. As long as she does not give them too much I am ok with that. I have put the house idea to her and she says her parents are ok with that.

That sounds fine, but don't let her family use you as an ATM, especially if cousins etc, start to show up. Come to an agreement with her, ask her how much she gives her family, I assume it's only her parents, and you give the same if that's what you want to do.

Hopefully things will work out.

We have to be realistic and in the real world I would not be able to have a girlfriend 36 years younger than me with the advantages that brings and living in Thailand if you marry a girl you nearly always have to support her family. But I have made it clear to my girlfriend that there are limits. I have worked very hard to get what I have got and I do not hand money out easily but I live for today and with my plans I know I could not have a happier life back in the UK so I spend accordingly as I know you can't take it with you and if I leave everything to my children in the UK they will only go and take expensive holidays and buy new cars etc.

Ozybear · June 10, 2014

OP, I did the same. After meeting her siblings, who are alcoholics, gamblers or bludgers who would not work a day in thier life, I built a 400.000 baht home to keep her mother out if the dirt, which she formally lived in, a tin shack. Ever since we send a small amount to her to pay the bills and a little spending money which the siblings beg, borrow or steal off her. If I paid a dowry, it would be gone instantly with nothing to show for it.

If you feel the need, go ahead and use your excess money wisely and if you build, look at it like a permanent holiday home for you and your wife.

The maintenance will never be done if you are not there.

My home looked 20 years old after one year, so do t be disheartened upon your return as it will keep you busy doing repairs and so forth.

I have one room dead bolted with bedding, tools and my motorbikes.

Yes, the neighbours still call me stingy as I won't leave my bike for the siblings but I did buy 2 second hand bikes for them, which they sold and drank.

Don't expect much as the siblings will try everything to bleed you.

Enjoy and be happy with your partner and don't get involved in family drama as it never ends and will be costly.

Cheers.

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larsjohnsson · June 10, 2014

In the real world nobody would marry a girl that don't like to be his girlfriend

keithkarmann · June 10, 2014

When it came to sin sod with my in-laws I sat down with them and discussed it reasonably.

They said if I respected their culture I should pay it, I agreed with this. I then asked if they respected my culture and they said they did.

We then negotiated how much sin sod for me to pay(100k) and once that was done I gave them the bill for the wedding(350k) and advised as part of my culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding....they never asked about the 100k again.

and youre proud you shamed them?

I don't think I did shame them, if they want me to respect their culture and they say they respect mine where is the shame?

I was more than happy to pay the sin sod as I agreed with them as a sign of respect, I feel more that they disrespected me by lying to me.

I am on your side with that, not sure if I could do it as my girlfriend's family have no money but my wedding will not cost too much in the village.

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

OP, I did the same. After meeting her siblings, who are alcoholics, gamblers or bludgers who would not work a day in thier life, I built a 400.000 baht home to keep her mother out if the dirt, which she formally lived in, a tin shack. Ever since we send a small amount to her to pay the bills and a little spending money which the siblings beg, borrow or steal off her. If I paid a dowry, it would be gone instantly with nothing to show for it.

If you feel the need, go ahead and use your excess money wisely and if you build, look at it like a permanent holiday home for you and your wife.

The maintenance will never be done if you are not there.

My home looked 20 years old after one year, so do t be disheartened upon your return as it will keep you busy doing repairs and so forth.

I have one room dead bolted with bedding, tools and my motorbikes.

Yes, the neighbours still call me stingy as I won't leave my bike for the siblings but I did buy 2 second hand bikes for them, which they sold and drank.

Don't expect much as the siblings will try everything to bleed you.

Enjoy and be happy with your partner and don't get involved in family drama as it never ends and will be costly.

Cheers.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

why do you assume his in laws will be as despicable as yours?

ljd1308 · June 10, 2014

When it came to sin sod with my in-laws I sat down with them and discussed it reasonably.

They said if I respected their culture I should pay it, I agreed with this. I then asked if they respected my culture and they said they did.

We then negotiated how much sin sod for me to pay(100k) and once that was done I gave them the bill for the wedding(350k) and advised as part of my culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding....they never asked about the 100k again.

and youre proud you shamed them?

I can't see how he shamed then AYJAYDEE, the parents said they should go with Thai culture, Ijd was prepared to do that, so the parents should also go by Western culture. It's only fair.

I can see you dont see. but they will be ashamed, nontheless. the parents dont live in a western culture. he lives in a thai culture

I don't live in a Thai culture, I live in Sydney Australia and I am pretty sure that is a western culture.

My wife lives in Sydney Australia, so she doesn't live in a Thai culture.

Not sure where you are going with this?

Ozybear · June 10, 2014

OP, I did the same. After meeting her siblings, who are alcoholics, gamblers or bludgers who would not work a day in thier life, I built a 400.000 baht home to keep her mother out if the dirt, which she formally lived in, a tin shack. Ever since we send a small amount to her to pay the bills and a little spending money which the siblings beg, borrow or steal off her. If I paid a dowry, it would be gone instantly with nothing to show for it.

If you feel the need, go ahead and use your excess money wisely and if you build, look at it like a permanent holiday home for you and your wife.

The maintenance will never be done if you are not there.

My home looked 20 years old after one year, so do t be disheartened upon your return as it will keep you busy doing repairs and so forth.

I have one room dead bolted with bedding, tools and my motorbikes.

Yes, the neighbours still call me stingy as I won't leave my bike for the siblings but I did buy 2 second hand bikes for them, which they sold and drank.

Don't expect much as the siblings will try everything to bleed you.

Enjoy and be happy with your partner and don't get involved in family drama as it never ends and will be costly.

Cheers.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

why do you assume his in laws will be as despicable as yours?

nat e th

Maybe they are, maybe thier not.

I will leave that up to him.

Although the majority of farangs I have met who paid a dowry, the families have nothing to show for it except memories. Hence a house is better than a hangover.

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AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

When it came to sin sod with my in-laws I sat down with them and discussed it reasonably.

They said if I respected their culture I should pay it, I agreed with this. I then asked if they respected my culture and they said they did.

We then negotiated how much sin sod for me to pay(100k) and once that was done I gave them the bill for the wedding(350k) and advised as part of my culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding....they never asked about the 100k again.

and youre proud you shamed them?

I don't think I did shame them, if they want me to respect their culture and they say they respect mine where is the shame?

I was more than happy to pay the sin sod as I agreed with them as a sign of respect, I feel more that they disrespected me by lying to me.

well you did. they EXPLAINED the ramifications of their culture before you agreed to respect it. You , on the other hand, did not and waited until they agreed to respect a culture they knew nothing about before you sprung your demand on them. so you not only shamed them but you manipulated them. what a start to a marriage!

sandyf · June 10, 2014

Sinsod is paid all the time. The important thing is for it to be shown at the wedding. Often arrangements are made to show it at the wedding, and then given back to the groom afterwards. Sometimes if the groom does not have the money, the brides parents put up their own money to show at the wedding, and then of course keep it after the wedding. Everyone saves face. Don't let anyone tell you that this does not happen. Believe it or not, just like the rest of the world, some marriages do last forever. Especially when you start in your 60's.

Absolutely. It is an integral part of the "exchanging gifts" ritual in the marriage ceremony. My wife suggested using Sterling so the wedding guests would have little idea of how much was involved.

In this area the money is always returned to the couple.

bangkoklasse · June 10, 2014

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OP (Keith) has your gf been married before? Any children? Is she 35+ as alluded to above?

If yes to ANY of these questions i would not even contemplate sin sod (it is not dowry, thats Indian).

If NO to all 3 questions then you can think about sin sod as a mark of respect to her family. 50,000 sounds very very reasonable.

Its a shame when you can not trust your wife or girlfriend. I understand as my first wife was an untrustworthy cheating stealing gambling adulterous liar, so now my first criteria in a partner is being honest and trustworthy to a fault. There are plenty of lovely goodhearted honest Thai girls who would never ever do the wrong thing like suggested. If I could not trust my lady I would not marry her, but that was a lesson hard learned.

NO, 50,000 baht is not enough especially if the groom is a white man. It is 200,000 baht minimum now.

I agree 50,000 baht is not enough if you were buying a woman that's why I am willing to build the house that will cost a minimum of 750,000 baht which will eventually belong to my future wife and her family.

you should do that too. but the parents (and the whole village) expect a dowry.

He doesn't marries the whole village. I'm sure everyone in the village like to have a new car and a house also. But they have nothing to do with him or his GF

NoshowJones · June 10, 2014

You have a point there, but the Thais want to make it all one sided. I would say that in any culture there should be fairness involved.

keithkarmann · June 10, 2014

OP, I did the same. After meeting her siblings, who are alcoholics, gamblers or bludgers who would not work a day in thier life, I built a 400.000 baht home to keep her mother out if the dirt, which she formally lived in, a tin shack. Ever since we send a small amount to her to pay the bills and a little spending money which the siblings beg, borrow or steal off her. If I paid a dowry, it would be gone instantly with nothing to show for it.
If you feel the need, go ahead and use your excess money wisely and if you build, look at it like a permanent holiday home for you and your wife.
The maintenance will never be done if you are not there.
My home looked 20 years old after one year, so do t be disheartened upon your return as it will keep you busy doing repairs and so forth.
I have one room dead bolted with bedding, tools and my motorbikes.
Yes, the neighbours still call me stingy as I won't leave my bike for the siblings but I did buy 2 second hand bikes for them, which they sold and drank.
Don't expect much as the siblings will try everything to bleed you.
Enjoy and be happy with your partner and don't get involved in family drama as it never ends and will be costly.
Cheers.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I have plans to make the house very difficult to get into while we are not there as I do not want her family living there when we are in Chiang Mai. I understand what you mean about the houses looking old very quickly as nobody does any maintenance. But I do need a little bit of work to keep me occupied so that will not bother me. I have told my girlfriend that one of the reasons I do not like her to send her father money is because he is a lazy b_____d. Her reply is that he is not as strong as me but he 10 years younger than me.

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

He doesn't marries the whole village. I'm sure everyone in the village like to have a new car and a house also. But they have nothing to do with him or his GF

as long as they are content to shame the parents in front of the village

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

You have a point there, but the Thais want to make it all one sided. I would say that in any culture there should be fairness involved.

you dont get to define fairness in someone elses culture. sin sod developed for a reason. one you dont seem to understand

Alfredo46 · June 10, 2014

I have married a thai woman 4 years ago - mother wanted dowry and show of money. I declined both (Iwas not in the business of buying a woman - especially not a second hand one lol) and we had a great party. Then a built a 3.5 mil house on 10 rai's and paid over 300,000 baht to rebuild the mother's house. Not because I was asked to but because I wanted to. According to my wife everyone respects me here for the decisions I made.

PaulHamon · June 10, 2014

neither.

glegolo · June 10, 2014

keithkarmann

Posted Yesterday, 16:30

I recently posted about Dowry and I have strong feelings against paying dowry so I have come up with an alternative. As I already through my girlfriend pay towards her family I do not want to pay them any extra, which the dowry would be extra money to them. I have been with my girlfriend approaching two years now and can see no reason why we should not make our relationship long term.

I plan to put the dowry money towards building my girlfriend a house. The house would be built gradually and any money put towards the house would be money that I could afford to lose. If I look back to before I met my girlfriend I was spending large amounts on beer and women and now my spending has been reduced by 50% due to the stability my girlfriend has brought to my life. The house will be built on land her father owns (but transferred to my girlfriend) and I would have a lease on the land so the house would be in my name.

I am over 60 years old and know I will not live forever so in the event of my demise my girlfriend would have a house which she would not get if a dowry was insisted upon.

Has anyone got any positive or negative views on my plans as I can only see it would be a positive move. Yes of cours she could dump me after the house was finished but I do not plan to finnish it in a hurry and until it is finished andhopefully beyond I will keep the stability in my life.

Keithkarmann.

--------------------------------------

Good for you... I do exactly the very same thing. I am not even interested in having this house of mine in my own name. I am getting older by the day, I am 63 now and my wife since 6 years back, she is 39 years old now. I do hope that she will have this house as her HOME when I am gone.. that would feel great...

Dont be afraid of things that probably will shows up here on Thaivisa, like it always does amongst pattaya and bangkokguys.. Their enormous fear of loosing money. Usually we always ends up on our feets, and if worse come to worse who cares..not me,, not that much anyhow. I will always have my retirementmoney each month,, so life will go on... But I really wish to be positive and try out life, before I kick life in the groin of pure fear....

Scared guys always ends up with nothing mostly.. So go for it,, Good luck.. great approach to life in my mind!!

Glegolo

ljd1308 · June 10, 2014

When it came to sin sod with my in-laws I sat down with them and discussed it reasonably.

They said if I respected their culture I should pay it, I agreed with this. I then asked if they respected my culture and they said they did.

We then negotiated how much sin sod for me to pay(100k) and once that was done I gave them the bill for the wedding(350k) and advised as part of my culture the father of the bride pays for the wedding....they never asked about the 100k again.

and youre proud you shamed them?

I don't think I did shame them, if they want me to respect their culture and they say they respect mine where is the shame?

I was more than happy to pay the sin sod as I agreed with them as a sign of respect, I feel more that they disrespected me by lying to me.

well you did. they EXPLAINED the ramifications of their culture before you agreed to respect it. You , on the other hand, did not and waited until they agreed to respect a culture they knew nothing about before you sprung your demand on them. so you not only shamed them but you manipulated them. what a start to a marriage!

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

Oceanbat · June 10, 2014

You have a point there, but the Thais want to make it all one sided. I would say that in any culture there should be fairness involved.
you dont get to define fairness in someone elses culture. sin sod developed for a reason. one you dont seem to understand

Who says? It is 2 cultures coming together after all.

OB

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Ozybear · June 10, 2014

I have married a thai woman 4 years ago - mother wanted dowry and show of money. I declined both (Iwas not in the business of buying a woman - especially not a second hand one lol) and we had a great party. Then a built a 3.5 mil house on 10 rai's and paid over 300,000 baht to rebuild the mother's house. Not because I was asked to but because I wanted to. According to my wife everyone respects me here for the decisions I made.

Ps, my wife is a proud Australian citizen and thai secondary now.

She totally feels the same as I do.

You work for what you recieve, no hand outs.

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NoshowJones · June 10, 2014

Keith, I am from the UK also, and there is no way you would be better off there, you have done the right thing coming here. No, it is not any Farangs job to support the wifes family, unless like you, you stop her working so she can be home with you. But that's your choice, and I agree with it.

But the downside is, and this is my opinion, with the age gap between you, it is highly unlikely she is genuinely in love with you, but there are the very odd exceptions.

In saying that, there is no reason that you cannot be happy at your stage in life, and I wish you all the best.

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

i honour the culture in which I live. you have shamed the parents of your bride. where you gleaned the information is immaterial. all were aware you had it. manipulative games earn little respect.

joshstiles · June 10, 2014

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Hey lightning....slow down and perhaps do a little more research since you are so pro-culture.....the DOWRY.... is part of thai culture and when the dowry is paid to a thai family, the husband also receives 'something' from the family as an inheritance for the dowry received!!!!!! Typically this is land or livestock....or whatever the family has of value equal to the dowry amount. Do you homework.

Soooooooooooooooo....if a foreigner pays a dowry.....what is he getting in return.????? Huh.....Wha????? Duh????

keithkarmann · June 10, 2014

I have married a thai woman 4 years ago - mother wanted dowry and show of money. I declined both (Iwas not in the business of buying a woman - especially not a second hand one lol) and we had a great party. Then a built a 3.5 mil house on 10 rai's and paid over 300,000 baht to rebuild the mother's house. Not because I was asked to but because I wanted to. According to my wife everyone respects me here for the decisions I made.

I am not in your league (in terms of spending power) but I have similar ideas to you and it seems to have worked out well for you

NoshowJones · June 10, 2014

You have a point there, but the Thais want to make it all one sided. I would say that in any culture there should be fairness involved.

you dont get to define fairness in someone elses culture. sin sod developed for a reason. one you dont seem to understand

I am not interested in understanding, if I don't get fairness in any country or culture, I just walk away.

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

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Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Hey lightning....slow down and perhaps do a little more research since you are so pro-culture.....the DOWRY.... is part of thai culture and when the dowry is paid to a thai family, the husband also receives 'something' from the family as an inheritance for the dowry received!!!!!! Typically this is land or livestock....or whatever the family has of value equal to the dowry amount. Do you homework.

Soooooooooooooooo....if a foreigner pays a dowry.....what is he getting in return.????? Huh.....Wha????? Duh????

whether he gets anything in return or not is not the point. the dowry is expected and if not given, it brings shame on the family. if a farang doesnt mind doing that, then go for it.

ljd1308 · June 10, 2014

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

i honour the culture in which I live. you have shamed the parents of your bride. where you gleaned the information is immaterial. all were aware you had it. manipulative games earn little respect.

You are the one who brought up where I got the information, are you saying your comments are immaterial?

I think you must have missed the post where I stated that I live in Australia and that I was trying to honour that culture.

So as you have said, if it is all about the culture in which you live then am I right in assuming that an apology is coming from you as you actually agree that our(my and my wife's Australian culture) culture is more important than my in-laws culture?

Oceanbat · June 10, 2014

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

i honour the culture in which I live. you have shamed the parents of your bride. where you gleaned the information is immaterial. all were aware you had it. manipulative games earn little respect.

You are the one who brought up where I got the information, are you saying your comments are immaterial?
I think you must have missed the post where I stated that I live in Australia and that I was trying to honour that culture.

So as you have said, if it is all about the culture in which you live then am I right in assuming that an apology is coming from you as you actually agree that our(my and my wife's Australian culture) culture is more important than my in-laws culture?

Boom

OB

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bangkoklasse · June 10, 2014

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

i honour the culture in which I live. you have shamed the parents of your bride. where you gleaned the information is immaterial. all were aware you had it. manipulative games earn little respect.

you have used your "shamed the parents" in ten posts that you have replied to in this thread. It starts to get monotonous

AYJAYDEE · June 10, 2014

They didn't explain anything of their culture, not sin sod nor anything else. In fact if they were to explain their culture to me why would the start with the part about giving them money?

I researched these things myself.

I also did not demand anything of them, I just showed them the bill for the wedding and explained my culture(as they could not be bothered to research it themselves) at this point they felt their culture was not important enough to mention to me again(I was still happy to pay it if need be). They still have not explained any other aspects of Thai culture to me......

And it was a great start to the marriage, a lovely beach ceremony that was enjoyed by all(including my wifes family) and the marriage is still going strong. In the end I was able to get over my disappointment of my in-laws lying to me as I still got to marry my lovely wife and start a family together.

I am not sure where you are from or if you are married but why would you place more importance on a foreign culture than your own?

i honour the culture in which I live. you have shamed the parents of your bride. where you gleaned the information is immaterial. all were aware you had it. manipulative games earn little respect.

you have used your "shamed the parents" in ten posts that you have replied to in this thread. It starts to get monotonous

then dont read my posts. simple

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