Dowry

[Oceanbat]

I've browsed through most postings on this topic from today and would like to clarify a few things from my point of view because some comments are misleading or not correct.

1) Sin Sod

Some have commented that this not really practiced by Thais anymore and is only used by Thai girls to get money from their foreign boyfriends. I would say this opposite is true from my experience. The practice of paying Sin Sod is an old tradition still practiced by Thais in all regions, regardless whether this is Isaan, North, Central, East or South. It's also independent of religion, Muslims in the South pay it as well. It also doesn't matter whether you are poor or rich, celebrities, rich business people as well as farmers practice this tradition.

Now I cannot say how it is practiced between foreigners and Thais since some clearly articulated that they didn't pay Sin Sod and still got married with a Thai woman. However I would like to point out that this is rather unusual as the common question from all friends and families of your Thai woman will be about how much Sin Sod was paid.

2) How much to pay

Some have suggested to not pay more than 50k. I must say this is rather low and can be an insult especially if your future wife has a decent background. If she is university educated, has a well paid job, her parents do very well, she has never been married before and no kids, you will be expected to pay a lot more. If your wife is from a good background and you have a good background as well, expect to pay at least 400-500k and some Gold. Some of my friends have paid quite a bit more than that. The amount is usually agreed between the 2 families and since the expat's family is unlikely to be here, I guess you will have to talk to her parents. Suggest to do this yourself and not through your future wife, if language is a problem bring a Thai speaking friend along who helps translating. You can also agree to get the money back after the wedding, i.e. say you want to use the money to buy or build a house to live in, I think this is likely accepted by the other family. Or you can also say that you want everything back maybe except the Gold you gave. It's entirely up to you to negotiate something acceptable for you.

3) Thai language

Some have suggested that the term jai dee (good heart) is only used by prostitutes or sex workers. I would like to emphasize that this is a common expression used by all Thai speaking people, regardless of your background. Same applies to jai dam, jai ien, jai khaeng, etc etc. There are many other expressions with Jai in the Thai language, The Thai speakers amongst the readers in this forum will be well aware of that.

Hope this helps. Clearly everyone has strong opinions on this which I accept. And again as I previously posted, the below link may provide some further useful information on Sin Sod.

http://www.thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

Seems to depend if the girl is from the "village" or has an international perspective.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[EyesWideOpen]

Sinsod is paid all the time. The important thing is for it to be shown at the wedding. Often arrangements are made to show it at the wedding, and then given back to the groom afterwards. Sometimes if the groom does not have the money, the brides parents put up their own money to show at the wedding, and then of course keep it after the wedding. Everyone saves face. Don't let anyone tell you that this does not happen. Believe it or not, just like the rest of the world, some marriages do last forever. Especially when you start in your 60's.

Sometimes they say they will give the money back, and they don't.

A regular poster on this forum lost 200k that way.

Sinsod has been beaten to death on TV , am always amazed when somebody posts anew..

Yeah I have always wondered about that giving the money back after the wedding.. Give a

family of poor Isan farmers a half million baht before the wedding, likely more money than they have ever seen in their lives, and then ask for it back after the wedding......Hmmmmm I can see

where some problems might come up. .

in their life,

[khunPer]

Does your 36 year younger GF love you? And is that the reason she have asked you many times to marry her?

Not sure if she loves me or my wallet

»You can’t buy love, but you can buy something that looks exactly like love…«

As long as both parts are happy and feel good, does it matter…?

Many posters have mentioned warnings about ladies aged in the twenties and that they will quickly leave, and also about age difference. Well, I had a number of friends in their 40’ies who had Thai girlfriends in their 20’ies, one on 45 had one at 20, and they lasted for long time and are all later happily married. Okay only some 20-25 years age difference.

There is (only) 32 years between me and my Thai girlfriend, we have been together now for 10½ year, since she was 22…

OP, if you feel good and feel it’s right for you, go ahead – as long as you are aware of potential financial risk and can afford it…

Per, but are you married and have paid dowry? Or built a house on her parents land? That's the important questions when talking about the age difference in this case. If the answer is no to those questions. And It's just a normal GF. Then it doesn't matter if there are 80 years difference

Thanks for your comment, Lars.

In my opinion marriage, sin sot and building a house on parents land are not important to the 2 posts I replied to: “Love” or “Love wallet”…

I was not at all trying to compare OP and me, just cheer OP up about the comments mentioning girls in their 20’ies and age difference – mentioning a few positive examples – and also saying, at the end it’s about what OP feel is right, not what everybody else think…

And in answer to your question: No, we – my GF and I – are not married, but probably considered so after Thai standard when living together for many years and having a child; but she’s just a “normal” GF…!

We may have different views on age difference, “normal” GF and potential future wife – that’s fine and what makes TV forum so exiting, and some times valuable learning or eye-opener for new thinking – because we are all individuals. Perhaps “age difference” is different when wife, rather that when just GF…?

OP’s original questions were about converting sin sot into instead building a house, and have a land lease, so it will be OP’s house. Not about both paying sin sot and build house on parents land.

Make me think about how many posters here would have told me I am stupid and should back out immediately, if I had asked their opinion about my idea of spending some hundred thousand baht on a just 24 years old, 32 years younger than me and only known less than 2 years, normal GF’s parents house for upgrade, and also buying them a car in GF’s name…?

And how many would say that’s a great idea for an elderly man (in medical term you are elder when over 40) to spend some hard earned savings on a very young girl he like…?

Appreciate your post and input to think about, Lars. And especially your positive 80-year age difference comment, now I can look forward to my 100-years birthday and the 20 year old mia noi, gik or GF I’m having – not joking, that would be really great – indeed hope I have inherited my parents good genes for longevity…

[F4UCorsair]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

[shadmo63]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

@F4UCorsair - Great post, I think you have nailed it. Enough said.

[bangkoklasse]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

Good post

Yes it's strange some farangs pay sin sod when marry a divorced woman. Or a woman with kids. Or a bargirl that have slept with a hundred other men before.......

[F4UCorsair]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

Good post

Yes it's strange some farangs pay sin sod when marry a divorced woman. Or a woman with kids. Or a bargirl that have slept with a hundred other men before.......

To me it shows two things bangkoklasse......there are a lot of suckers among foreigners, and that there are a lot of scammers among the Thais.

There's some misguided desire to save them, but from what?

[thailiketoo]

Why marry her then ?

There comes a time in most men's lives when they can take care of someone besides themselves. Maybe make another person's life a little better. Maybe make her family's life a little better. Maybe make the world a better place. I'm not going to invent the cure for a disease but my money allowed her father to live a bit longer without pain.

I could be living by myself. She chose to marry me. I do more things for her than she does for me. When she makes an error I don't mention it. When she is happy perhaps I'm due a bit of credit for that.

I married her because it makes me feel good. My memorial will be her house and comfort when I'm gone.

You don't have to marry her to do that. He can help her father or give them a house without being married.............

Nonsense and shows your complete lack of knowledge about Thai women. A respectable Thai woman will always want to be married if she lives with you. No exceptions.

Edited June 12, 2014 by thailiketoo

[bangkoklasse]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

Good post

Yes it's strange some farangs pay sin sod when marry a divorced woman. Or a woman with kids. Or a bargirl that have slept with a hundred other men before.......

To me it shows two things bangkoklasse......there are a lot of suckers among foreigners, and that there are a lot of scammers among the Thais.

There's some misguided desire to save them, but from what?

Agree 100%........and yes there are a lot of suckers

[EyesWideOpen]

My understanding of sinsot/d comes from reading many years ago and had its roots in an agrarian society which Thailand principally was. The basis of paying sinsot was that a farming family could afford to bring in hired help to run the farm for a couple of years after the daughter left, and another sibling was old enough to take up the load. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons families were much larger many years ago, to provide continuity of the labor source, along with a much higher infant mortality rate.

I therefore can see that sinsot may apply in rural areas, although farming practices have changed a lot, and families are much smaller, but for it to apply when the girl's family are city folk, seems to be a little odd to me, and to continue this anachronistic practice could easily be interpreted as scamming a foreign man.

Having said all that, I don't condemn anybody who goes down that line, but reading many, many threads here, leads me to believe that it is a practice that continues to scam foreigners, particularly where some sucker is asked to pay for a divorced woman, some divorced several times, with a number of kids in tow, and in bad need of a rebore and sleeve, using a motoring term.

In western agrarian societies, if a farmer had daughters, he would offer a dowry to any man

who would marry his daughters and take them off his hands so they would not be a drain

on his resources. So clearly Thailand has morphed that around into basically the selling of the daughter as a valuable commodity..... :-) And yeah everybody knows that even in Thai culture, a woman who has been around the block ten times and has two kids from a Thai boyfriend who are staying with granny in Isan does not deserve a bride price.

I am always amazed that bar girls can get away with this with stupid farangs who clearly have never read Thai Visa........

Edited June 12, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[Grindting]

Wow 60 and 27. My wife is also 27, but I am 29.

In my opinion the OP is awesome!! Get in there!

Clearly it is an arrangement, but aren't most relationships in some way? There are even caveats in my relationship, such as lying to her parents that I am a Muslim, and supporting her father with money as he drank and gambled the family home away many years ago. He is in his mid 70s so I won't be taking care of him forever, and the actual cost is very minimal so it is what it is, but it is a caveat none the less.

The OP suggestion is a good one, if I were him I'd probably do something similar, I mean what kind of life is available to him in the UK for less than £2k ? Take off rent, counsel tax, bills and food, he'd be living most of his life in the whetherspoons with the rest of the whinos, drinking his hard earned retirement away. In his current situation he has a lovely looking girl to spend his time with who will hopefully keep him off the booze, in a warm climate with a low cost of living. He's no worse off financially for it.

I find my situation is better for me, even with the caveats, as the alternative for me back in the UK is an average looking British girl, who will gradually fill out even more over the years and have a 50% chance of taking my house and half my pension off me eventually anyway. (Yes I've been reading these boards since I was 21..).

Edited June 12, 2014 by Grindting

[keithkarmann]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Wow 60 and 27. My wife is also 27, but I am 29.

In my opinion the OP is awesome!! Get in there!

Clearly it is an arrangement, but aren't most relationships in some way? There are even caveats in my relationship, such as lying to her parents that I am a Muslim, and supporting her father with money as he drank and gambled the family home away many years ago. He is in his mid 70s so I won't be taking care of him forever, and the actual cost is very minimal so it is what it is, but it is a caveat none the less.

The OP suggestion is a good one, if I were him I'd probably do something similar, I mean what kind of life is available to him in the UK for less than £2k ? Take off rent, counsel tax, bills and food, he'd be living most of his life in the whetherspoons with the rest of the whinos, drinking his hard earned retirement away. In his current situation he has a lovely looking girl to spend his time with who will hopefully keep him off the booze, in a warm climate with a low cost of living. He's no worse off financially for it.

I find my situation is better for me, even with the caveats, as the alternative for me back in the UK is an average looking British girl, who will gradually fill out even more over the years and have a 50% chance of taking my house and half my pension off me eventually anyway. (Yes I've been reading these boards since I was 21..).

You could not have said it any better-Thanks

[tutsiwarrior]

when I married my thai wife no dowry was asked for or expected and I was unaware of the custom...we were both living in the Middle East where I was working and got married at the local thai embassy...

a couple of years later when we bought a house in her home town in Suphanburi the wife threw a huge thai 'new house' party with hundreds of guests, a band, huge catering and etc...we hired a venue at the local tesseban just next door to our premises...earlier in the day the monks came out to the house and chanted with ritual pouring of water and etc...

the foregoing is just a suggestion; the wife seemed to cover all issues with a 'new house' party...it cost around 60k baht which I was glad to pay as the wife was proud of her new digs...

at the party I got up on stage with the wife and the MiL during the proceedings and took my cue from the 'ich bin ein berliner' speech and warbled emotionally 'pom yu ti Suphanburi!' to a huge roar from the crowd...tutsi bares his heart, etc...

[belg]

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

[bangkoklasse]

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

The girl is 36 years younger than him. So probably both her parents are also younger than him

[thailiketoo]

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

The girl is 36 years younger than him. So probably both her parents are also younger than him

So?

[keithkarmann]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

62 and 26 her father is about 52 but with no go in him. Not sure what love is anymore I just like waking up with a sexy 26 year old girl next to me and for the time being she seems to like sleeping with me (well at least she has convinced me anyway). Only time will tell-"Enjoy the Moment" worry about tomorrow when it comes.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

62 and 26 her father is about 52 but with no go in him. Not sure what love is anymore I just like waking up with a sexy 26 year old girl next to me and for the time being she seems to like sleeping with me (well at least she has convinced me anyway). Only time will tell-"Enjoy the Moment" worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Replace "like" with "endure" for a more factually correct statement.

Not sure I know what love is either, but I sure know what love isn't.

[Grindting]

60 ? and how old is your girlfriend ?

is her dad younger than you ?

62 and 26 her father is about 52 but with no go in him. Not sure what love is anymore I just like waking up with a sexy 26 year old girl next to me and for the time being she seems to like sleeping with me (well at least she has convinced me anyway). Only time will tell-"Enjoy the Moment" worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Replace "like" with "endure" for a more factually correct statement.

Not sure I know what love is either, but I sure know what love isn't.

Yeah but what would you trade just to spend just a day (and night) in his shoes ?

Sounds like the OP is living each passing moment to the full, is enjoying everything while it lasts, has saved a nice retirement pot to see him comfortable for the rest of his life, regardless of what the future holds with this girl, as she can't touch that income if she's not around.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Yeah but what would you trade just to spend just a day (and night) in his shoes ?

500bht, if she weighs less than 50Kg!

(whereustay, whereustay)

[joshstiles]

You said this.....he said that....children shut the F up

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[louse1953]

you would be making a large mistake. at your age, you are being taken for a ride. dowry? i guess you mean sinsod. i don't know anyone, Thai or farang, who has ever paid such a thing. find a lady closer to your own age who likes you for who you are, and not what you can do for her and her family.

how does this relate C.M. anyway?

why do you "pay towards her family already"???

You must move in very small circles,because plenty of Thais and foreigners do pay sinsod.How do you know how old his gf is.Family is a big deal in Thailand,ignore it at your peril.

[bangkoklasse]

you would be making a large mistake. at your age, you are being taken for a ride. dowry? i guess you mean sinsod. i don't know anyone, Thai or farang, who has ever paid such a thing. find a lady closer to your own age who likes you for who you are, and not what you can do for her and her family.

how does this relate C.M. anyway?

why do you "pay towards her family already"???

You must move in very small circles,because plenty of Thais and foreigners do pay sinsod.How do you know how old his gf is.Family is a big deal in Thailand,ignore it at your peril.

He have told us the age of his GF ten times in this thread. So how can you write a reply like that ??