Working in a Thai team

[wprime]

Does anyone have experience in working in teams with Thai people? Do you have any pointers in getting things done?

For example, they all keep doing something the same way which causes a problem. I propose a solution, explain why it will lead to better results, prove this. They all agree, then proceed to do things their way again. So I bring it up again, this time specifically pushing for them to explain why they continue to do things their way. They can't explain why they think their way is better, instead relying on the fact that they all think it's better as a means to demonstrate that it is.

They're all slightly older than me (< 5 years) which I think is a factor. Anyone have any solutions on how to get through to this bunch?

[Bangkokhatter]

One idea that worked for me was to make it seem as though it was their idea to change something. A bit of manipulation works wonders. Still can't get them to drill a hole properly though.

[Cloggie]

Have a look at: http://www.amazon.com/Working-Thais-Henry-Holmes/dp/9748496503

[Soutpeel]

Does anyone have experience in working in teams with Thai people? Do you have any pointers in getting things done?

For example, they all keep doing something the same way which causes a problem. I propose a solution, explain why it will lead to better results, prove this. They all agree, then proceed to do things their way again. So I bring it up again, this time specifically pushing for them to explain why they continue to do things their way. They can't explain why they think their way is better, instead relying on the fact that they all think it's better as a means to demonstrate that it is.

They're all slightly older than me (< 5 years) which I think is a factor. Anyone have any solutions on how to get through to this bunch?

I work with quite a few hundred thai nationals and this "team work" way of managing things doesn't work, if your the boss you tell them what you want, explaining very specially what your expectations are and it will get done

[PattayaPhom]

No chance, if you want something doing do it yourselfe.....shave your head so you cant pull your hair out. Its an uphill struggle...thats my experience of working with Thais for over 10 years....check and double check. Thais work by memory...unless they are shown 100 times and do it 100 times they will revert to their own way.

[Soutpeel]

No chance, if you want something doing do it yourselfe.....shave your head so you cant pull your hair out. Its an uphill struggle...thats my experience of working with Thais for over 10 years....check and double check. Thais work by memory...unless they are shown 100 times and do it 100 times they will revert to their own way.

Completely disagree, I have been working with thai nationals for nearly 14 years so not my experience, what doesn't work certainly is management by consensus, maybe the difference is due to the type of employees your dealing with. Edited June 10, 2014 by Soutpeel

[InsideOut]

No chance, if you want something doing do it yourselfe.....shave your head so you cant pull your hair out. Its an uphill struggle...thats my experience of working with Thais for over 10 years....check and double check. Thais work by memory...unless they are shown 100 times and do it 100 times they will revert to their own way.

Completely disagree, I have been working with thai nationals for nearly 14 years so not my experience, what doesn't work certainly is management by consensus, maybe the difference is due to the type of employees your dealing with.

Or maybe the type of person he is.

Some foreigners have a tendency to treat Thais as if they are unintelligent kids, and believe it or not, Thais, just like any other humans, does not like to be belittled, even though I must say, I see Thais put up with a lot more than, most of us foreigners would put up with….

[PattayaPhom]

No chance, if you want something doing do it yourselfe.....shave your head so you cant pull your hair out. Its an uphill struggle...thats my experience of working with Thais for over 10 years....check and double check. Thais work by memory...unless they are shown 100 times and do it 100 times they will revert to their own way.

Completely disagree, I have been working with thai nationals for nearly 14 years so not my experience, what doesn't work certainly is management by consensus, maybe the difference is due to the type of employees your dealing with.

Or maybe the type of person he is.

Some foreigners have a tendency to treat Thais as if they are unintelligent kids, and believe it or not, Thais, just like any other humans, does not like to be belittled, even though I must say, I see Thais put up with a lot more than, most of us foreigners would put up with….

Treat everyone the same. Varying positions in different parts of Thailand I have found the same. Even with my intermediate Thai language it still isnt sufficient. If a member of staff is shown how a task should be done 1,2,3 times but insists on doing it their way regardless and this being more time consuming with less accurate results what do you suggest?...With 0% unemployment, they are aware that they can walk to another job less demading. Pay, benefits etc makes no difference. People skills does not seem to play a part......I know Thais that have the same problem with their staff so its not a cultural thing either...

[seabass69]

FACE...You've somehow got to find a way of getting them to do things your way while letting them think that it's their way.

[fletchsmile]

Have a look at: http://www.amazon.com/Working-Thais-Henry-Holmes/dp/9748496503

Yes "Working With the Thais" is one of the best books I read on cultural issues and the workplace.

This book is starting to look a bit dated now, and the new generation of Thais coming thru are shifting in outlook. But it's still a good traditional culture book nonetheless

Cheers

Fletch

[JimMagee]

I don't want to generalize since there are always exceptions, but here goes: Thais seem to have a tough time getting away from the "this is the way we've always done it" syndrome. Creativity is not a strong trait for many Thais. Money always motivates them. Offer a cash reward for the person who comes up with a new and better way to get a process accomplished. Chances are you'll keep your cash. Have you noticed that they copy everything? There may be one person in a group that has some creativity, and everyone else will just copy them. Find that one person, and if he/she doesn't exist, then look for that person and import them into the group.

[gaurang]

i may not be an experienced person as such but i m working in a thai company for the last 2.5 years...these are the points i have observed...again there are always exceptions...

1. Money seriously matters...but nothing is above mai sanook ....if they find something mai sanook (not happy to do ) they might just grumble and do the work to downright avoid it ...hell people have resigned just because of that reason.

2. Yes as mentioned earlier the "this is the way we've always done it" syndrome is true..and they will tend to do what they know and not what they can...

3. If you are in a team as an equal member ..chances are they wont be listening to you ..unless you are a falang in which case ..they will be listening to you ..however its not necessary they might do as you say...

4. One thing i have seen very particular...that finishing off their work in the shortest time (or finding the best economical way ) is not their idea of work..it mostly is to drag on till the due date ....

I may be wrong as not all people are same ..

My advise....just go on with your work and if you need someone to do something just give them the work and deadline...rest leave it upto them

[razer]

Years ago Standard Chartered did a survey of foreign managers from all over the world who worked here at some time in their career, and one common thread was the Thai inability to understand teamwork. Usually, when there is a deadline the team will ignore the work while encouraging the most competent person to do it.

[recycler]

I work as only foreigner in a Thai company and some colleagues I've worked with for over 8 years.

In my experience there is no standard way, my approach differs on a personal basis.

What helps me a lot is to understand Thai language and with some speak Thai. If you understand the language you understand the way Thais communicate and that differs a lot from how westerners communicate. An important issue is that verbal and written communication has a lot of room for different interpretation and vagueness. As a solution to that you can try to communicate in visual manner with drawings and examples.

Actively sharing information and knowledge in an open way works good and gains respect in contrast with Thais that don't like to share information and knowledge in general.

The use of humor also works for some, but be careful they have a different humor than we in many cases.

If you make a mistake it puts many people on the wrong foot if you actually admit is and correct it. Many have never seen something like it.

And in some cases you have to let it go as some Thais will never listen to anything, in many cases because they are of such status that they know everything. For these people you can only hope that hitting the wall will not cause to much damage to others, but often they will put the blame on others.

[ggt]

then proceed to do things their way again!

You will not win this battle...do not let yourself get frustrated...I know...it defies logic and reason...some call this "Thainess"...Thais believe they...and only they...know what is best...in most all circumstances...just go with the flow...keep your sanity...

[Bcgardener]

Repetition is the answer! but , not always possible. However I find that you have to be the boss (not in a bad way) and in that position have the staff's respect. If you achieve that respect and then show them how you want something done I find it usually gets done that way. Every so often you will get a lapse back to the "old ways" but when I point this out to the person concerned you get that "Thai smile" as they no it is not right . They will then fix the problem the correct way.

However in saying that I check everything even if they say they have checked it. It also helps if you know how to do the task yourself. Rather than just explaining things, if you do it once the way you want it done while they watch then they will usually do it that way in the future. Probably the worse thing you can do is to try and be their best friend. This approach may work in team building in the West but you will lose their respect if you try it in Thailand.

All of the above is just my opinion based on 6 years in manufacturing here, however I am far from an expert, still learning everyday!

[Loles]

Don't think they are sillier than you, just their thoughts are not same with your thinking. And you came here .....

If you are the boss, or they are your employees, you have to tell them exactly your policy, and if some-one doesn't want to take it let him/her go easy.

There are always problems about their "losing face".

If they made a mistake you can't confront them with their mistake 100% cause this already losing face. You have to stop around 70% and much better if when the next problem comes to say good by to employee.

You never forget, you and they are not from same culture, so the 100% co-operation is impossible.

[Paulzed]

I had this problem when building my home as an Owner Builder, I gave them many chances to do as they were told after careful explanation and drawing of diagrams ON house plans written in Thai, until I slowly told them one by one that they were not required any more I then tried some new workers until I got a team that were able to read a Thai house plan and do as instructed.

If they do it wrong you still have to praise what they have done, but explain that we now have a change in plans and we have to do it this way now.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Paulzed

[Soutpeel]

Repetition is the answer! but , not always possible. However I find that you have to be the boss (not in a bad way) and in that position have the staff's respect. If you achieve that respect and then show them how you want something done I find it usually gets done that way. Every so often you will get a lapse back to the "old ways" but when I point this out to the person concerned you get that "Thai smile" as they no it is not right . They will then fix the problem the correct way.

However in saying that I check everything even if they say they have checked it. It also helps if you know how to do the task yourself. Rather than just explaining things, if you do it once the way you want it done while they watch then they will usually do it that way in the future. Probably the worse thing you can do is to try and be their best friend. This approach may work in team building in the West but you will lose their respect if you try it in Thailand.

All of the above is just my opinion based on 6 years in manufacturing here, however I am far from an expert, still learning everyday!

Bingo...the first part of your post is 100% correct IMHO

[indothai]

I've seen great team work and absolute manure. And we are all generalizing here, and I'll try to help out by being specific so that you can get your job done.

Is your boss Thai or Foreigner?

- If Thai, then he is either expecting you to fail or expecting you to do great things.

-- Did you oversell yourself? Telling him/her you can do great and wonderful things without doing your homework? <<time to do your homework>>

- If he is a Foreigner, then he failed trying to do what you are currently doing and now looking for someone to get the job done. Careful, you could be the fall guy.

-- Best case scenario is that he heard great things about you and chose you for the job. Did you do your homework carefully before taking on the task?

Who get's to fire them?

- You?

-- If you get to fire them, then you lack management skills and lack the understanding of the Thai culture.

-Or your boss?

-- If your boss get's to fire them, get your boss to tell them that your words are the same as his. You will be able to recommend bonuses, promotions, as well as termination. If he is not on board, prepare to find to work elsewhere 'cause this is going to be a long ass tiring road for you.

Here's my take:

Thai generally do note take orders from Foreigners, but those that do "take orders" understand the "corporate culture" and know how to do their jobs when "taking orders" from a Foreigner(s). Understand the culture and history of Thailand and you'll master doing business in Thailand. Learn the history and culture from books and professors, but that alone would not be enough. You also have to do to "observe" how Thais interact with each other. Talk to a lot of Thais (I do hope you have a lot of Thai friends), and understand their behaviors... observe them, see how they interact with each other. You will be perplexed and at times confused, that's where your good Thai friend comes in to help explain the behavior.

Thais will generally respect a Foreigner more if "said" Foreigner speaks their language and apply cultural behaviors with them, this is usually true with older Thais (40's onwards, the older the harder it becomes for Foreigners).

Understand this. Even though you are their boss, Thai culture would trump that in a heartbeat. Because they are older, you need to show respect and know how to give orders accordingly.

good luck.

[freebyrd]

I've worked with Asians from Nepal, Hong Kong, Thailand, China, Philippines and now Cambodia. This isn't specific to Thais by any means, I've experienced the same in each of these countries.

I learned very early on that you need a right hand man/woman that you can trust and rely on. Take time to select one, put them in a trusted position, befriend them to a certain extent without getting too cosy, give them a job title that means something and work through them, I had a Senior Manager work with me, not for me, in Thailand, there is a subtle difference, although he knew where the line was. In every country it has worked out well for me. I'm the only foreigner in a small company here and tried working without a trusty sidekick for the first 9 months, all to no avail, life was miserable. I knew I was peeing into the wind, so I reverted to the old method and life has been far easier since.

[tao40]

Great advce and feedback, thanks to all who have contributed their experience!

[ChiangraiTony]

Have them become part of the solution. First, define the process and then develop a procedure and then training. Adopt the procedure and make it policy. The procedure will standardize and the process will be repeatable. Make minor adjustment with the documentation such as (draft), initial release, version 1, version 2, etc...

Have a team leader. If you make them part of the solution and they understand the expectation and it's documented then over time you can change the behavior.

[Oziex1]

When working in Africa I had similar issues, I appointed local workers as Leading Hands at first they came to me saying things like I told them but they didn't do it. I regularly held meetings with my Leading Hands to help them to understand the need to take responsibility as in: It is your responsibility to make sure my instructions are carried out, with the clear message that if my instructions are not carried out effectively I will not be dealing with the crew on the shop floor I will be dealing with you (Leading Hands) and it will be unpleasant! Change didn't happen over night, after a while I was very pleased as to how the Leaders rose to the task and got results. However hands on supervision is essential, you cannot sit in your office all day as things can go off the rails very quickly.

Any others here see many similarities with the people of Thailand and other developing nations?

Regards

[CharlesHH]

Make one of the Thai a team captain.

Explain to all that he is sub boss and is getting extra something to get them to work right.

Put all the onus on the captain. Work THROUGH a Thai on the job like everywhere else here.

If I want anything done in Thailand, I reserve or assign a Thai to do it. Thai wives are excellent at this especially because the wife wants husband's approval, wants to save him money, and wants job done right as a matter of her personal honor. Tell her she can keep whatever money she saves you. Otherwise, remind her that her monthly allowance is paid to her in part to help with these supervisory jobs. She will love ordering other people around.

A junior person LOVES to boss people more junior than he/she.

other option is to charge one of the working group with a fault by implication, but punish the whole group. Be sure obliquely that all of the group know that THAT ONE screwed up and cost them all. The group will police itself, often.

However, you will NEVER get a Thai to run an electric drill continuously instead of burrum, burrum, burrum in jolts.

Some things one can not change.

[peter267]

"TIT" To expand the point. A living experience akin to "trying to herd pussy cats"

[In Search of Space]

I think I was very lucky, i spent 2 years working for a major US/UK IT company and the Thai staff (1,200) were fantastic, all worked harder than me and all had a very westernized attitude when it came to work and dealing with each other, so the company had done a very good job of transferring an internation business culture.

[Albertosez]

Why u no wissen. Do like that long time already, make same same before.......better me, friends do same same, this way good more !

Start the Car ?

[belg]

go to the boss, get them all fired, get new hirees and explain your vision

you might get to fire that new team again

[snottgoblin]

I have over a 100 Thai nationals at I am responsible for managing. As Soutpeel has stated , team consensus doesn't work, you need to be clear and defined in what you want, and I've found over the years that if you are seen as firm and fair then they are much more responsive, if you are seen as weak you'll have problems. It is certainly a different way of working than the West, but it is not rocket science. I have a very good Thai Assistant who has worked with me for the last three years, and we have managed to get a very good team ethic going, although it took a while to get away from some of the old lazy, corrupt and haphazard culture that I inherited.