European retailers put pressure on Thai prawn suppliers

[chooka]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

While not condoning your post or slavery, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the Democrat government, the coalition government, the Thai Rak Thai government, the coup fascist government, the PPP government, the Democrat government, the Pheu Thai government and the Coup '14 government rulers.

Good for The Guardian to take the forefront. Not to condone slavery, but The Guardian and 5,000 other media worldwide and in Thailand should have done something about it many years ago and should be ashamed they didn't.

I'm not sure who else BUT Thailand and the current government junta regime should receive the beating today, though. Any suggestions welcome. Thaksin? George W Bush? They're not the ones putting tens of thousands of entirely harmless people in trucks, beating them, allegedly killing them and dumping them at the border while refusing to track, catch and prosecute very high-ranking military officers involved in human trafficking. Thailand and its current authorities are doing that. Other governments and military officers WERE doing that, but aren't any more.

.

Why on earth is this a media responsibility to act upon?

The media has been annually been reporting this story in detail for many years. Why should they be ashamed? It is their job to simply investiagte and report, and that they have done. You even wrote yourself "this is not a new story", and thus you are aware of media exposure yourself!

Don't shoot the messenger.

It is now the Junta's responsibility and if they want to gain some respect from the world they will start pulling in those involved including people like the owners of C.P and order them to clean up the mess.

[Seastallion]

Ok, so the big supermarket chains are getting concerned about the prawns that are fed fishmeal made from by-catch of slave-manned fishing boats.

What about the main catch????

I would think that these slave-crewed fishing boats' main source of income would be the primary catch, not the by-catch.

Are these supermarkets also buying fish from Thailand?

What is the market for the primary catch? That is where to sting them, not some secondary supply through broker-processor-merchant-prawn farmer-broker-Tesco.

[UbonRatch]

Ok, so the big supermarket chains are getting concerned about the prawns that are fed fishmeal made from by-catch of slave-manned fishing boats.

What about the main catch????

I would think that these slave-crewed fishing boats' main source of income would be the primary catch, not the by-catch.

Are these supermarkets also buying fish from Thailand?

What is the market for the primary catch? That is where to sting them, not some secondary supply through broker-processor-merchant-prawn farmer-broker-Tesco.

Dead right! And not only the physical big fish catch, but the big fish boat/ship owners.

It's a very easy thing to do. Simply round up the Governor, Deputy Governor, Chief of Police and Chief of Labour of Samut Sakhorn, and there you have everybody who knows and has listed all the boat/ship owners from whom they receive their annual mortgage payments.

Then go chain the latter guys, and Bob's your uncle...

Edited June 14, 2014 by UbonRatch

[wandasloan]

It is now the Junta's responsibility and if they want to gain some respect from the world they will start pulling in those involved including people like the owners of C.P and order them to clean up the mess.

I'm a little confused.

What we are worried about is a very large company which buys a small portion of its fishmeal from slave operators, right? The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business.

I can assure you that the owners of CP and the CP Group are about as minor players as you can get in this network. Yes they are involved, but not at all directly, and even indirectly they are barely players. Putting their name in there is just part of the overall propaganda effort. If the junta acts against CP and wipes its hands (again) then nothing will have been done. Nothing.

One of the biggest problems here is that while previous governments (Chuan, Thaksin and lackies, Abhisit) were not directly involved in any of this, the military is a major player. Arguably it is the biggest of all (why the Navy is suing the Phukewan journalists, remember that?). Right at the very height of the anti-Thailand storm around the world on slavery, very influential colleagues of the slave-trade operators and enablers are in charge.

That's a big problem.

.

[UbonRatch]

It is now the Junta's responsibility and if they want to gain some respect from the world they will start pulling in those involved including people like the owners of C.P and order them to clean up the mess.

The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business.

You're kidding, right?

CP buys the ship operators' goods. Those goods are the result of slavery. Therefore, they are a direct party to funding slavery.

Tesco et al. buy CP's goods, Therefore, they are a direct party to slavery in funding CP which funds the shipping goods.

This is not in parallel; it's in series, and it's not third or fourth hand optics, whereby one blames the other. This is a matter of who supports the chain, and all chain members need to break their links, not one. If one link is broken, there is always a dick-link to step in and repair it, so far.

It is not a junta responsibility to stop the trade. That is a moral and purchasing responsibility involving the ruddy whole lot of the parties involved.

As for your comment, "The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business" - despicable!

[wandasloan]

It is now the Junta's responsibility and if they want to gain some respect from the world they will start pulling in those involved including people like the owners of C.P and order them to clean up the mess.

The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business.

You're kidding, right?

CP buys the ship operators' goods. Those goods are the result of slavery. Therefore, they are a direct party to funding slavery.

Tesco et al. buy CP's goods, Therefore, they are a direct party to slavery in funding CP which funds the shipping goods.

This is not in parallel; it's in series, and it's not third or fourth hand optics, whereby one blames the other. This is a matter of who supports the chain, and all chain members need to break their links, not one. If one link is broken, there is always a dick-link to step in and repair it, so far.

It is not a junta responsibility to stop the trade. That is a moral and purchasing responsibility involving the ruddy whole lot of the parties involved.

As for your comment, "The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business" - despicable!

Yes, I WAS kidding that was what you SEEMED to be saying. But it turns out that's what you mean. So now I'm not kidding. According to you, the junta should not stop the slave trade. According to you, the slave operators and slaves should just go about their business while CP and similar chain members are busted. And repeat: According to you the junta has no responsibility to step in to stop the trade because slavery is just a moral issue.

And *I* am despicable? I'm tempted to wear that proudly as a badge. Good grief.

.

[Now or Never]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

Do you have to try and twist everything to be political ? its not its about human suffering and a UN vote on the table to do something about it.

Its not just a Thailand problem but international, hence the UN making it clear and voting on an update to help curb things.... It should also be noted that Thailand was the ONLY country to vote against. thats the 12 June 2014.... nothing to do with PTP at all and they have by actually voting against made it clear they do in fact see nothing wrong with slavery and forced labour...

The UN didnt pick the date conveniently to play politics its been on the agenda for a while like all voting items have to be.

Sorry but your way out, The Guardian would have known exactly when this vote was coming up and of course ran the story for maximum exposure at the prime time.... The BBC also ran a story highlighting Taiwan in the fishing trade and previously a lot has been highlighted about middle eastern countries using slave labour in construction and their mistreatment.

This is not only about Thailand I suggest you widen your reading and interests to include more than just LOS.

How old are you?

What are you on?

[sandyf]

well it just wuddent be PC to come out and say it was because of the coup. note too that a good percentage of the prawn farms are in the south.

rice slaves anyone?

howbout gemslaves?

touristslaves?

have i missed any?

Perhaps you missed the point that it was not the pawn farms using slave labor but the fishing fleets that provided the fish meal, the food for the prawns. The Thai fishing industry has long been a blight upon the Kingdom that has received far too little notice. The conditions for Thai's working on the boats was horrible enough with many young men shanghaied onto the boats. But today the conditions for the Burmese now working the boats are even worse, far worse.

We have friends at Ao Yang with a prawn farm and like many in the area it is a family run business.

[Lancelot]

Maybe they will send the Jet Ski boys to beat up the European retailers

Back on topic- consumers have the ultimate power to boycott and force an end to this abuse.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Lancelot

[UbonRatch]

It is now the Junta's responsibility and if they want to gain some respect from the world they will start pulling in those involved including people like the owners of C.P and order them to clean up the mess.

The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business.

You're kidding, right?

CP buys the ship operators' goods. Those goods are the result of slavery. Therefore, they are a direct party to funding slavery.

Tesco et al. buy CP's goods, Therefore, they are a direct party to slavery in funding CP which funds the shipping goods.

This is not in parallel; it's in series, and it's not third or fourth hand optics, whereby one blames the other. This is a matter of who supports the chain, and all chain members need to break their links, not one. If one link is broken, there is always a dick-link to step in and repair it, so far.

It is not a junta responsibility to stop the trade. That is a moral and purchasing responsibility involving the ruddy whole lot of the parties involved.

As for your comment, "The slave operators and slaves should just go about their business" - despicable!

Yes, I WAS kidding that was what you SEEMED to be saying. But it turns out that's what you mean. So now I'm not kidding. According to you, the junta should not stop the slave trade. According to you, the slave operators and slaves should just go about their business while CP and similar chain members are busted. And repeat: According to you the junta has no responsibility to step in to stop the trade because slavery is just a moral issue.

And *I* am despicable? I'm tempted to wear that proudly as a badge. Good grief.

.

I'm talking about the whole trade Godammit. The trade from Tesco, the final customer, all the way down to the fish food sales. Not the slave trade as an entity. The WHOLE trade involves all the links. Yes, the Junta should stop the shipping/fishing - I said that previously, where I also said it's very easy to do.

The junta has no say in what Tesco, or Walmart, or Tom, Dick and Harry does, so no - they cannot stop the trade - as a whole!

Try not to complicate matters for yourself ja.

[rreddin]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

The Guardian has been running this story for a while and it is nothing to do with the coup. They have even managed to catch out David Cameron for not recording, as he is required to do, the fact he had a private meeting last year with the president of CP. Maybe the junta, who usurped the democratically elected government you are so keen to heap blame upon, can redeem the county's image by actually stopping slavery on Thai owned fishing boats.

[Absolut]

"Carrefour said it had carried out checks on the factory in 2013 which had not revealed anything out of the ordinary."

This has got to be the weakest excuse a company could ever use. The slave labour is on the boats, not in the factory so why even put out this kind of comment?

In other words, we know it's going on, we chose to totally ignore it and we are now trying to blow smoke up everyones *ss.

The people they employ to do their inspections must have car loads of bribe money to not be aware of how unethical their product it.

[Usual Suspect]

IMO all these promises by the supermarkets, all the assurances by Tesco etc that their products are being produced by humane means only

(no slavery or human-rights issues) all boils down to who is actually carrying out the inspections, & filling in the reports..?

As we all know here just about EVERY official is on the take, & corruption will be as rife in this area as any other.

Maybe the might of Tesco, Carrefor etc would benefit from applying pressure directly to the Military powers-that-be..especially in the light of the

results towards fighting the corrupt elements that have been exposed over the last week or so.

So far this Junta is paving the way towards a new era here..I hope they can keep it up, & the Thai's as a nation can be taught corrupt practices are part of Thailand's history...NOT it's future. (But that may be a long way ahead of us..?)

[WhizBang]

Walmart and Costco will follow shortly. They are very conscious of human trafficking in their network and channels and they are very reputable.

I disagree that those companies are reputable, but they are very sensitive to public pressure, and anything that will effect their bottom line.

It is long overdue that boycotts against firms that knowingly, or even unknowingly, support any form of slavery are put in place. The ONLY thing these companies will understand is when actions hit their income stream.

Now let's hope this first step by Carrefour marks the beginning of the end of slavery in all it's forms in Thailand, and indeed, the world.

[Somtamnication]

So Carrefour inspected the factory in 2013. Did it not occur to them to inspect the BOATS????????

[ratcatcher]

My better have says cp is owned by 7

So we also have to stop buyer there

Go to tesco and support the Brits!!

Here in the country we have only tesco and no 7!

A very bad day, since I read the old Thai gov also not signature the un

Agreement against human slavery!

Most other country's agree withit..

Actually C.P owns the Thai Licence of 7 Eleven

Tesco - Lotus owned by The Charoen Pokphand Group ( AKA CP)

You would be hard pressed to shop anywhere or purchase anything in Thailand that isn't connected to the Charoen Pokphand Group

Actually C.P owns the Thai Licence of 7 Eleven TRUE

Tesco - Lotus owned by The Charoen Pokphand Group ( AKA CP) FALSE

Tesco Lotus i operated by Ek Chai Dist.

CP Group operates Lotus Supercenters in China.

CP owns TRUE Corp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus

[fab4]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

The Guardian has been running this story for a while and it is nothing to do with the coup. They have even managed to catch out David Cameron for not recording, as he is required to do, the fact he had a private meeting last year with the president of CP. Maybe the junta, who usurped the democratically elected government you are so keen to heap blame upon, can redeem the county's image by actually stopping slavery on Thai owned fishing boats.

Initially the military government was the only government that voted against the International Labour Organisation protocol on slave labour. Obviously, since that decision was made, the PR chappies have had a word in certain ears

This comes amidst intense pressure for Thailand to give every public indication it of concern for human trafficking problems as the US State Department’s Trafficking in Persons (TIP) report release comes next week.

Thai official Patana Bhandhufalk, Labor Attaché at Thailand Permanent Mission to the United Nations and other international organizations in Geneva sent a statement to the ILO governing body reversing the country’s stance on Friday.

“…We have decided to join the consensus in adopting the said protocol, bearing in mind our need to proceed in accordance with our domestic requirements,” Bhandufalk wrote in the statement.

The Thai delegation that attended the convention reversed its position after consulting further with the capital “at the policy level”, she said.

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/06/14/thailand-reverses-ilo-convention-no-vote-joins-international-labor-rights-consensus/

[Now or Never]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

The Guardian has been running this story for a while and it is nothing to do with the coup. They have even managed to catch out David Cameron for not recording, as he is required to do, the fact he had a private meeting last year with the president of CP. Maybe the junta, who usurped the democratically elected government you are so keen to heap blame upon, can redeem the county's image by actually stopping slavery on Thai owned fishing boats.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

This is fact.

the junta, did not usurped the democratically elected government.. There was only a caretaker government that was crumbling under the weight of corruption charges and the Senate which was no longer controlled by the PTP.

The previous PTP government had no respect for the law and used the term "" democratically elected ' to justify their disrespect for the law and condone their criminal activities.

[Thai at Heart]

While in no way condoning the slavery in the Thai fishing industry, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the PTP government.

The Guardian Newspaper is very pro PTP and have swallowed their "Democracy " rant hook line and sinker.

The Guardian has been at the forefront of the foreign presses criticism of the coup.

Now they have decided to revive this issue as a stick to beat Thailand and the military coup.

While not condoning your post or slavery, this is not a new story and something should have been done about it by the Democrat government, the coalition government, the Thai Rak Thai government, the coup fascist government, the PPP government, the Democrat government, the Pheu Thai government and the Coup '14 government rulers.

Good for The Guardian to take the forefront. Not to condone slavery, but The Guardian and 5,000 other media worldwide and in Thailand should have done something about it many years ago and should be ashamed they didn't.

I'm not sure who else BUT Thailand and the current government junta regime should receive the beating today, though. Any suggestions welcome. Thaksin? George W Bush? They're not the ones putting tens of thousands of entirely harmless people in trucks, beating them, allegedly killing them and dumping them at the border while refusing to track, catch and prosecute very high-ranking military officers involved in human trafficking. Thailand and its current authorities are doing that. Other governments and military officers WERE doing that, but aren't any more.

.

No one touches CP.

That is the problem.

[Basil B]

Funny how the likes of Tesco will buy cheap prawns, as long as no one tells them why they are so cheap.

[Thai at Heart]

Funny how the likes of Tesco will buy cheap prawns, as long as no one tells them why they are so cheap.

That's why its imperative to have a free press.I don't expect companies to do much more than the least they can to save the world. Their job is to make money legally.

Slavery is illegal in Thailand. Indebted work is illegal in Thailand. Its not Tesco job to enforce the law in Thailand

[wandasloan]

"Carrefour said it had carried out checks on the factory in 2013 which had not revealed anything out of the ordinary."

This has got to be the weakest excuse a company could ever use. The slave labour is on the boats, not in the factory so why even put out this kind of comment?

In other words, we know it's going on, we chose to totally ignore it and we are now trying to blow smoke up everyones *ss.

The people they employ to do their inspections must have car loads of bribe money to not be aware of how unethical their product it.

You're scratching at it.

Yes, definitely, the slave labour is on the boats. But this is the old lady who swallowed a fly, or the log in the bottom of the sea. This is a serious, tremendously organised crime syndicate of which, in step one of many, many steps, farmed shrimps are a part of the (Big Business-Medium Business) fishmeal trade. The fishmeal makers use some junk fish caught by dodgy boats, some of which use slave labour.

So at the very first stage, not buying farmed shrimp puts a few hundred thousand people on the street who were farming shrimp, buying fishmeal from factories that bought fish from middlemen who deal with fishing fleets, some of which have some boats with slave labour. All to free several hundred, probably not more, indentured fishing boat employees. Who, by the way, don't have jobs.

Meanwhile tens of thousands of other trafficked slaves, indentured people or just plain ripped-off, beaten and barely surviving people in debt, thrall or gratitude for not being killed today - employees in fish and fruit packing firms, brothels, factories that make the British child-looms look quite nice.... this human trafficking is a huge, multi-billion dollar enterprise to the very, very top of the current regime.

If you wipe out the entire fishmeal slave-labour problem - and it is a big problem - you've really not even made a dent in this.

If you end your project by it saying, "Well, okay, The Guardian should be happy now," you literally have not started on the problem.

And here (edit) is a sad note. Sending you after the big chain stories is in the interest of the people behind all this. It's a totally legitimate thing to do, "We're going to boycott and butcher Tesco", but it's The Organisation's version of prestidigitation - "That's right fellows, look at my right hand, see, I've got Walmart in it." If you lose sight of the left hand by focussing on the right, which people have been doing on this growing industry for 40 years, you've lost sight of the WHOLE problem.

No one touches CP.

That is the problem.

Right and wrong. No one touches CP, so what? That is NOT the problem. The problem is CP isn't even a real player in this. If you wiped out CP and burnt their headquarters, it would not make the slightest difference. The real problem is who else you don't touch. It's a GENERAL problem, in fact.

.

Edited June 14, 2014 by wandasloan

[Thai at Heart]

"Carrefour said it had carried out checks on the factory in 2013 which had not revealed anything out of the ordinary."

This has got to be the weakest excuse a company could ever use. The slave labour is on the boats, not in the factory so why even put out this kind of comment?

In other words, we know it's going on, we chose to totally ignore it and we are now trying to blow smoke up everyones *ss.

The people they employ to do their inspections must have car loads of bribe money to not be aware of how unethical their product it.

You're scratching at it.

Yes, definitely, the slave labour is on the boats. But this is the old lady who swallowed a fly, or the log in the bottom of the sea. This is a serious, tremendously organised crime syndicate of which, in step one of many, many steps, farmed shrimps are a part of the (Big Business-Medium Business) fishmeal trade. The fishmeal makers use some junk fish caught by dodgy boats, some of which use slave labour.

So at the very first stage, not buying farmed shrimp puts a few hundred thousand people on the street who were farming shrimp, buying fishmeal from factories that bought fish from middlemen who deal with fishing fleets, some of which have some boats with slave labour. All to free several hundred, probably not more, indentured fishing boat employees. Who, by the way, don't have jobs.

Meanwhile tens of thousands of other trafficked slaves, indentured people or just plain ripped-off, beaten and barely surviving people in debt, thrall or gratitude for not being killed today - employees in fish and fruit packing firms, brothels, factories that make the British child-looms look quite nice.... this human trafficking is a huge, multi-billion dollar enterprise to the very, very top of the current regime.

If you wipe out the entire fishmeal slave-labour problem - and it is a big problem - you've really not even made a dent in this.

If you end your project by it saying, "Well, okay, The Guardian should be happy now," you literally have not started on the problem.

And here (edit) is a sad note. Sending you after the big chain stories is in the interest of the people behind all this. It's a totally legitimate thing to do, "We're going to boycott and butcher Tesco", but it's The Organisation's version of prestidigitation - "That's right fellows, look at my right hand, see, I've got Walmart in it." If you lose sight of the left hand by focussing on the right, which people have been doing on this growing industry for 40 years, you've lost sight of the WHOLE problem.

.

Wanda. How do you know it is only a few hundred? That is a big assumption.

Beyond that, to solve it should then be quite simple and if it can be done it should be.

We were inspected by the buying companies own SRP teams. Different crop but no external audit, everything in house.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

"Carrefour said it had carried out checks on the factory in 2013 which had not revealed anything out of the ordinary."

This has got to be the weakest excuse a company could ever use. The slave labour is on the boats, not in the factory so why even put out this kind of comment?

In other words, we know it's going on, we chose to totally ignore it and we are now trying to blow smoke up everyones *ss.

The people they employ to do their inspections must have car loads of bribe money to not be aware of how unethical their product it.

You're scratching at it.

Yes, definitely, the slave labour is on the boats. But this is the old lady who swallowed a fly, or the log in the bottom of the sea. This is a serious, tremendously organised crime syndicate of which, in step one of many, many steps, farmed shrimps are a part of the (Big Business-Medium Business) fishmeal trade. The fishmeal makers use some junk fish caught by dodgy boats, some of which use slave labour.

So at the very first stage, not buying farmed shrimp puts a few hundred thousand people on the street who were farming shrimp, buying fishmeal from factories that bought fish from middlemen who deal with fishing fleets, some of which have some boats with slave labour. All to free several hundred, probably not more, indentured fishing boat employees. Who, by the way, don't have jobs.

Meanwhile tens of thousands of other trafficked slaves, indentured people or just plain ripped-off, beaten and barely surviving people in debt, thrall or gratitude for not being killed today - employees in fish and fruit packing firms, brothels, factories that make the British child-looms look quite nice.... this human trafficking is a huge, multi-billion dollar enterprise to the very, very top of the current regime.

If you wipe out the entire fishmeal slave-labour problem - and it is a big problem - you've really not even made a dent in this.

If you end your project by it saying, "Well, okay, The Guardian should be happy now," you literally have not started on the problem.

And here (edit) is a sad note. Sending you after the big chain stories is in the interest of the people behind all this. It's a totally legitimate thing to do, "We're going to boycott and butcher Tesco", but it's The Organisation's version of prestidigitation - "That's right fellows, look at my right hand, see, I've got Walmart in it." If you lose sight of the left hand by focussing on the right, which people have been doing on this growing industry for 40 years, you've lost sight of the WHOLE problem.

No one touches CP.

That is the problem.

Right and wrong. No one touches CP, so what? That is NOT the problem. The problem is CP isn't even a real player in this. If you wiped out CP and burnt their headquarters, it would not make the slightest difference. The real problem is who else you don't touch. It's a GENERAL problem, in fact.

.

CP dominates agriculture. They are almost the government agri extension in some businesses. They set the standard for many industries. They are the ones with the power to enforce a change.

If they can't be forced to act, nothing moves.

[wandasloan]

Wanda. How do you know it is only a few hundred? That is a big assumption.

Beyond that, to solve it should then be quite simple and if it can be done it should be.

We were inspected by the buying companies own SRP teams. Different crop but no external audit, everything in house.

Pick a number, then. A few thousand? I'll not quibble. I wish I did know, or someone knew.

Every one of those men is an important life, and no question. But in the Big Picture, they are a small number. Last year's US report mentioned 49 total fishermen, of whom 29 were slaves. Obviously that's a sample, but what's the real number? If someone comes up with a credible number, I'll adopt it immediately. I definitely won't argue over number until we get it down to "less than 100" then we can quarrel over that. Until then...

But overall, we're talking tens of thousands and maybe hundreds of thousands of trafficked, indentured, enslaved or hugely exploited people who should be liberated or aided or sheltered. And every one of the NON-fishermen matter too. Many are children.

CP dominates agriculture. They are almost the government agri extension in some businesses. They set the standard for many industries. They are the ones with the power to enforce a change.

If they can't be forced to act, nothing moves.

And again, okay, I'll not quibble over that. I know for sure CP *will* act but acting and achieving are different. So we'll see.

The only thing I'm stubbornly adamant about is that the current regime has the power to act, but it will have to act against its own. And as tough as it is to get CP to move, I'm not arguing that, it's one heck of a lot easier to force CP to act than a military dictatorship, eh?

.

Edited June 14, 2014 by wandasloan

[Thai at Heart]

Wanda. How do you know it is only a few hundred? That is a big assumption.

Beyond that, to solve it should then be quite simple and if it can be done it should be.

We were inspected by the buying companies own SRP teams. Different crop but no external audit, everything in house.

Pick a number, then. A few thousand? I'll not quibble. I wish I did know, or someone knew.

Every one of those men is an important life, and no question. But in the Big Picture, they are a small number. Last year's US report mentioned 49 total fishermen, of whom 29 were slaves. Obviously that's a sample, but what's the real number? If someone comes up with a credible number, I'll adopt it immediately. I definitely won't argue over number until we get it down to "less than 100" then we can quarrel over that. Until then...

But overall, we're talking tens of thousands and maybe hundreds of thousands of trafficked, indentured, enslaved or hugely exploited people who should be liberated or aided or sheltered. And every one of the NON-fishermen matter too. Many are children.

.

Its a start. Once this story starts all agribusiness will tighten up. From rice to fish sauce. No one will risk it.

Then, the NGOs will put a scare on someone, tourism? Construction? Something. Thailand cannot hide in a bubble if it wishes to business with the west.

[wandasloan]

Its a start. Once this story starts all agribusiness will tighten up. From rice to fish sauce. No one will risk it.

Then, the NGOs will put a scare on someone, tourism? Construction? Something. Thailand cannot hide in a bubble if it wishes to business with the west.

Teflon Thailand?

Well, we'll see. I've been here a while and remember some of the times people told me it was finally in the cards for Thailand - and a time or two I agreed.

We'll see.

The normal story is that Thailand reads The Guardian story, Thailand puts a thumb on a couple of pressure points, Thailand puts out a press release saying (truthfully) "We have investigated this and there is definitely something wrong, and we intend to take this very seriously." In a couple of cases people went to jail or worse.

Fade to next scene.

The next five, six days are going to be the absolute worst in Thailand's human rights life. It's the perfect storm of anti-Thai abuse. We'll see how it goes down.

.

Edited June 14, 2014 by wandasloan

[Thai at Heart]

Its a start. Once this story starts all agribusiness will tighten up. From rice to fish sauce. No one will risk it.

Then, the NGOs will put a scare on someone, tourism? Construction? Something. Thailand cannot hide in a bubble if it wishes to business with the west.

Teflon Thailand?

Well, we'll see. I've been here a while and remember some of the times people told me it was finally in the cards for Thailand - and a time or two I agreed.

We'll see.

.

This starts with the US State dept and their report. They have given Thailand a long time to change.

CP and the company that owns Chicken of the Sea are now well established big boys. They are global heavyweight agribusinesses. If you want to play in the big leagues, welcome to the real world. This is CP, Tesco and the British PM. The British press are like terriers for this type of thing.

Consumers and markets will punish you if you disrespect them. They don't want shrimp peeled by slaves, so fix it. I don't expect some massive change, but at least in agribusiness for export a little might give.

But these things tend to snowball. Note the Cambodians all running for home scared of the army. That would have been a non story only 10 years ago.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[wandasloan]

But these things tend to snowball. Note the Cambodians all running for home scared of the army. That would have been a non story only 10 years ago.

And the ILO slavery vote. And the general distaste with the coup. And the Rohingya. And the Cambodians aren't RUNNING for home so much as they are being beaten and driven there. Supposedly some killed, according to NGOs.

But you've got a lot more faith in boycotts than me. Did you notice how everyone stopped buying T-shirts and gowns from Bangladesh for killing 2,000 people in a fire and building collapse? Or how Sri Lanka lost all its tea business for massacres and other human rights abuses? Burma is the world's fastest-grown drug nation in the world, a place where people are massacred over their religion, and it's everyone's darling!

I'll stick with "we'll see".

.

[Thai at Heart]

But these things tend to snowball. Note the Cambodians all running for home scared of the army. That would have been a non story only 10 years ago.

And the ILO slavery vote. And the general distaste with the coup. And the Rohingya. And the Cambodians aren't RUNNING for home so much as they are being beaten and driven there. Supposedly some killed, according to NGOs.

But you've got a lot more faith in boycotts than me. Did you notice how everyone stopped buying T-shirts and gowns from Bangladesh for killing 2,000 people in a fire and building collapse? Or how Sri Lanka lost all its tea business for massacres and other human rights abuses? Burma is the world's fastest-grown drug nation in the world, a place where people are massacred over their religion, and it's everyone's darling!

I'll stick with "we'll see".

.

Well, to read the investigations about what has gone on in Bangladesh there is now a proper industry body mandating how its done with industry buyers at the middle of it.

It ain't perfect but its an improvement. Who is at the centre? Primark.

Because they know if they don't do something the press will eat them.