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Farang Police Volunteer with a very bad attitude.


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Posted

Poo-lice usually are horrible psychotic bullies

A person that was bullied at school

A misfit

So they join the poo-lice force to feel powerful and strong.

Because without the police organisation behind them they are impotent and weak!

Volunteer police should be seen and not heard?

Let me guess, you were one of the school yard bullies and one of the kids you tormented locked you up. Great way to speculate and generalize ALL police around the world. I really hope to never meet you in person someday, not to do anything untoward to you, but to never have to share my oxygen with someone of such a narrow minded mentality.

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Posted

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree this guy is a bellend but why was your tax under the seat?

A precaution against theft.

Posted

Personally, if you want to be a law enforcement volunteer to assist the police, you should have had a career in law enforcement, armed forces, corrections, customs to name a few. Some guy who worked at Walmart and decides to come over to be a FPV is doing the community and themselves a disservice.

Being a police officer is not being an enforcer. It is someone who has to have a VERY good knowledge of laws, the rights of citizens and the ever changing policies and procedures that arise. The agency I work for and have participated in the interview process of volunteers who become sworn peace officers that are allowed to enforce the national and provincial laws have to take extensive training (at least a year, two or three evenings a week) and commit to providing a minimum of 20 hours per month (most put in 40 ish, and some as high as 100). These people are well trained in use of force using pepper spray, a defensive baton, handcuffs, police driving, and the handling of firearms. They do not carry firearms, but are trained to use them in case of their partner becoming incapacitated and having to defend against deadly threats.

Those people who don a uniform to inflate their heads are an absolute joke. I have come across some of them in action and witnessed their skills, and they would be lucky to be hired as a security guard protecting a house being built from copper wire thieves. They do not have the skills that are designed to interact and react to the situation they are in. We use a model of interaction with subjects that is a dynamic wheel to determine the threat posed to us. It is ever changing and provides guidelines on what interaction and intervention is appropriate. Without extensive training in this model, you are more of a liability to the police, and become a laughing stock of the public.

Upon my retirement I will look into the system as I possess a "very special set of skills" to quote Nic Cage in Taken, which I would love to pass on to the Thai Police. I teach classes to junior police officers (and some senior ones) and enjoy it. As I stated before, possessing policing skills and providing these skills along side the local police can often be a great asset. I don't have any interest in being a "volunteer accountant / doctor / lifeguard" as I have no actually experience of skills in those careers.

All in all, better screening of applicants who bring some law enforcement experience to the table would be the right choice.

Nic Cage in Taken. Hmmmm. Do you teach observation skills?

My apologies, I mistook him for Liam Neeson. Please forgive me for my mixing up of such famous people who have contributed so much to the betterment of society.

Your humble servant......

Posted

Personally, if you want to be a law enforcement volunteer to assist the police, you should have had a career in law enforcement, armed forces, corrections, customs to name a few. Some guy who worked at Walmart and decides to come over to be a FPV is doing the community and themselves a disservice.

Being a police officer is not being an enforcer. It is someone who has to have a VERY good knowledge of laws, the rights of citizens and the ever changing policies and procedures that arise. The agency I work for and have participated in the interview process of volunteers who become sworn peace officers that are allowed to enforce the national and provincial laws have to take extensive training (at least a year, two or three evenings a week) and commit to providing a minimum of 20 hours per month (most put in 40 ish, and some as high as 100). These people are well trained in use of force using pepper spray, a defensive baton, handcuffs, police driving, and the handling of firearms. They do not carry firearms, but are trained to use them in case of their partner becoming incapacitated and having to defend against deadly threats.

Those people who don a uniform to inflate their heads are an absolute joke. I have come across some of them in action and witnessed their skills, and they would be lucky to be hired as a security guard protecting a house being built from copper wire thieves. They do not have the skills that are designed to interact and react to the situation they are in. We use a model of interaction with subjects that is a dynamic wheel to determine the threat posed to us. It is ever changing and provides guidelines on what interaction and intervention is appropriate. Without extensive training in this model, you are more of a liability to the police, and become a laughing stock of the public.

Upon my retirement I will look into the system as I possess a "very special set of skills" to quote Nic Cage in Taken, which I would love to pass on to the Thai Police. I teach classes to junior police officers (and some senior ones) and enjoy it. As I stated before, possessing policing skills and providing these skills along side the local police can often be a great asset. I don't have any interest in being a "volunteer accountant / doctor / lifeguard" as I have no actually experience of skills in those careers.

All in all, better screening of applicants who bring some law enforcement experience to the table would be the right choice.

Nic Cage in Taken. Hmmmm. Do you teach observation skills?

Wow What country is the above long winded writer referring too????? This thread is about Thai police auxiliary. OH I see on re-read the writer is beating his own drum or??????

The comment below shows how out of touch the writer really is. First of all security is an illusion and secondly of all a security guard has to do is call 911 Security guards are trained not to engage perpetrators of crime. The bottom line is the guard has to note the criminal description, time, location and the direction the criminal took. Mostly security guard are known as the after the fact crime scene respondents. Wonder what the writer would do as a retired aged security guard for minimum wage Rambo?."Those people who don a uniform to inflate their heads are an absolute joke. I have come across some of them in action and witnessed their skills, and they would be lucky to be hired as a security guard protecting a house being built from copper wire thieves. They do not have the skills that are designed to interact and react to the situation they are in. We use a model of interaction with subjects that is a dynamic wheel to determine the threat posed to us. It is ever changing and provides guidelines on what interaction and intervention is appropriate. Without extensive training in this model, you are more of a liability to the police, and become a laughing stock of the public."

It is quite apparent you have never done the job, or maybe you are a security guard yourself. And since you are in Canada, feel free to come on out and walk a mile in a cop's shoes. I can gladly take you out to see what it is REALLY like.

And I have no desire to work for minimum wage or any wage after my "work" of 24 years and one day for my pension, as your tax dollars will provide me with a very generous income that I thank you for. I will actually volunteer my time to provide skills that have been provided to me to contribute back to society. As for beating my own drum, I took band in school and was a drummer and I still enjoy drumming to this day. Thank you for recognizing my musical talent!

Posted

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh Cont-rare he has no authority what so ever and what actually transpired in the OP's scenario is evidence of that fact. An auxiliary officer is considered untrained and therefore is more of back coverage of the official officer. Muscle if you will but in the above scenario the MOUTH went off.

So who is correct, NomadJoe or poweratradio?

Posted

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh Cont-rare he has no authority what so ever and what actually transpired in the OP's scenario is evidence of that fact. An auxiliary officer is considered untrained and therefore is more of back coverage of the official officer. Muscle if you will but in the above scenario the MOUTH went off.

This was always my understanding. They have no authority. They are there to "assist" police and tourists, usually with translating, but not to actively "police" the public. Eg. vehicle stops and asking for drivers/riders licences.

  • Like 1
Posted

So, under Thai labour law, should he have a work permit, or not?

As I have stated on many previous threads, yes he should have a WP. No exception to this requirement exists in Thai Labour legislation.

The reason why he does not have a WP is because the Thai police believe themselves to be above the law. Many years ago (I have been a police volunteer since about 2006), I tried to persuade my Thai superiors to apply for WPs for the TPV team. It was like speaking to a brick wall.

A general comment:

Time and time again we read about crimes committed by police volunteers (Gary Halpin drugs, Dork ? body in the bin murder etc). Time and time again we read about totally unprofessional behavior of some of these foreign volunteers.

The bottom line is that something is clearly very amiss in the assessment and training program for these foreign volunteers for such crimes and behavior to occur.

Is a comprehensive background check being made for new volunteers? (I know that the true answer is no)

Do new applicants undergo psychological tests to ascertain their potential behavior 'in the field'? The answer is no

Are all volunteers monitored and assessed on a regular basis by a competent superior? The answer is no

Do all volunteers speak Thai language to a level sufficient to converse with any Thai police officer or member of the public at an incident? The answer is no

I could go on and on with my constructive criticism of the volunteer programs, but it is simply wasting my energy because no advice or constructive criticism from a foreigner would be taken on board. It's very frustrating!

I still work as a volunteer police officer, but restrict my activities to helping tourists at the airport - I see my work really as a 'PR' role for the Tourist Police for arriving tourists.

Simon

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Posted

So, under Thai labour law, should he have a work permit, or not?

As I have stated on many previous threads, yes he should have a WP. No exception to this requirement exists in Thai Labour legislation.

The reason why he does not have a WP is because the Thai police believe themselves to be above the law. Many years ago (I have been a police volunteer since about 2006), I tried to persuade my Thai superiors to apply for WPs for the TPV team. It was like speaking to a brick wall.

A general comment:

Time and time again we read about crimes committed by police volunteers (Gary Halpin drugs, Dork ? body in the bin murder etc). Time and time again we read about totally unprofessional behavior of some of these foreign volunteers.

The bottom line is that something is clearly very amiss in the assessment and training program for these foreign volunteers for such crimes and behavior to occur.

Is a comprehensive background check being made for new volunteers? (I know that the true answer is no)

Do new applicants undergo psychological tests to ascertain their potential behavior 'in the field'? The answer is no

Are all volunteers monitored and assessed on a regular basis by a competent superior? The answer is no

Do all volunteers speak Thai language to a level sufficient to converse with any Thai police officer or member of the public at an incident? The answer is no

I could go on and on with my constructive criticism of the volunteer programs, but it is simply wasting my energy because no advice or constructive criticism from a foreigner would be taken on board. It's very frustrating!

I still work as a volunteer police officer, but restrict my activities to helping tourists at the airport - I see my work really as a 'PR' role for the Tourist Police for arriving tourists.

Simon

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Amazing Thailand!

They have no real power, they cannot arrest you, ignore & drive off

Posted (edited)

So, under Thai labour law, should he have a work permit, or not?

As I have stated on many previous threads, yes he should have a WP. No exception to this requirement exists in Thai Labour legislation.

The reason why he does not have a WP is because the Thai police believe themselves to be above the law. Many years ago (I have been a police volunteer since about 2006), I tried to persuade my Thai superiors to apply for WPs for the TPV team. It was like speaking to a brick wall.

A general comment:

Time and time again we read about crimes committed by police volunteers (Gary Halpin drugs, Dork ? body in the bin murder etc). Time and time again we read about totally unprofessional behavior of some of these foreign volunteers.

The bottom line is that something is clearly very amiss in the assessment and training program for these foreign volunteers for such crimes and behavior to occur.

Is a comprehensive background check being made for new volunteers? (I know that the true answer is no)

Do new applicants undergo psychological tests to ascertain their potential behavior 'in the field'? The answer is no

Are all volunteers monitored and assessed on a regular basis by a competent superior? The answer is no

Do all volunteers speak Thai language to a level sufficient to converse with any Thai police officer or member of the public at an incident? The answer is no

I could go on and on with my constructive criticism of the volunteer programs, but it is simply wasting my energy because no advice or constructive criticism from a foreigner would be taken on board. It's very frustrating!

I still work as a volunteer police officer, but restrict my activities to helping tourists at the airport - I see my work really as a 'PR' role for the Tourist Police for arriving tourists.

Simon

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Amazing Thailand!

They have no real power, they cannot arrest you, ignore & drive off

If I'm ever waved over by one of these guys, I will tell him I will gladly show my licence to a Thai Policeman, but not him.

If he is alone and asks for my licence, I will tell him he has no authority to do so and that I am riding off, and should he try to stop me, I will be pressing charges against him for assault.

Being legal on the road here, as I always am, my thoughts are the incident would leave him with more questions to answer than myself.

If such an incident was also to make the Phuket Gazette and/or involve Honorary Consuls, than perhaps this is what it might take to clarify, officially, for everyone, what powers, or lack of, these TPV actually have.

Edited by NamKangMan
Posted

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

I would suggest items 5 relates to NGO's.

Item 6 is possible, but are their appointments by "Royal Decree?"

Item 7 is also possible, so, do they have permission from the "Council of Ministers?"

So, are the TPV "official" at the Bangkok Government level (Royal Decree / Council of Ministers) or at a local level, thus making them, technically, unofficially appointed?

Edited by NamKangMan
Posted

Regardless of whether the PV has the authority to do what he did, he should not be resorting to using language like the OP has quoted.

I am posting before finishing the thread - I would bet that this fella's name is Dave. He is an incredibly rude piece of work. Earlier someone mentioned that the OP should report the conversation - I agree with you, and good luck. I had a similar experience with this man (at least I believe it to be the same man) - he was rude and aggressive and called me a b*tch - and I went to the Chalong Police Station and reported it, but the officer taking my report just giggled.

Posted

Regardless of whether the PV has the authority to do what he did, he should not be resorting to using language like the OP has quoted.

I am posting before finishing the thread - I would bet that this fella's name is Dave. He is an incredibly rude piece of work. Earlier someone mentioned that the OP should report the conversation - I agree with you, and good luck. I had a similar experience with this man (at least I believe it to be the same man) - he was rude and aggressive and called me a b*tch - and I went to the Chalong Police Station and reported it, but the officer taking my report just giggled.

Where do they find these idiots!?

What nationality, assumed, is he?

Posted

Regardless of whether the PV has the authority to do what he did, he should not be resorting to using language like the OP has quoted.

I am posting before finishing the thread - I would bet that this fella's name is Dave. He is an incredibly rude piece of work. Earlier someone mentioned that the OP should report the conversation - I agree with you, and good luck. I had a similar experience with this man (at least I believe it to be the same man) - he was rude and aggressive and called me a b*tch - and I went to the Chalong Police Station and reported it, but the officer taking my report just giggled.

Where do they find these idiots!?

What nationality, assumed, is he?

If it is the same man, he has an Irish last name and an English accent.

Posted

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

Thanks for clarifying that to everyone. I was going to post that but couldn't find the section.

Posted

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

I would suggest items 5 relates to NGO's.

Item 6 is possible, but are their appointments by "Royal Decree?"

Item 7 is also possible, so, do they have permission from the "Council of Ministers?"

So, are the TPV "official" at the Bangkok Government level (Royal Decree / Council of Ministers) or at a local level, thus making them, technically, unofficially appointed?

Bangkok Government Level.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Posted

Regardless of whether the PV has the authority to do what he did, he should not be resorting to using language like the OP has quoted.

I am posting before finishing the thread - I would bet that this fella's name is Dave. He is an incredibly rude piece of work. Earlier someone mentioned that the OP should report the conversation - I agree with you, and good luck. I had a similar experience with this man (at least I believe it to be the same man) - he was rude and aggressive and called me a b*tch - and I went to the Chalong Police Station and reported it, but the officer taking my report just giggled.

Where do they find these idiots!?

What nationality, assumed, is he?

If it is the same man, he has an Irish last name and an English accent.

Correct.

  • Like 1
Posted

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

I would suggest items 5 relates to NGO's.

Item 6 is possible, but are their appointments by "Royal Decree?"

Item 7 is also possible, so, do they have permission from the "Council of Ministers?"

So, are the TPV "official" at the Bangkok Government level (Royal Decree / Council of Ministers) or at a local level, thus making them, technically, unofficially appointed?

Bangkok Government Level.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Do you actually have proof of your own appointment? Your previous post suggests you do not.

Quoting an excerpt of The Alien Employment Act hardly gives an individual, or group, permission to volunteer or work in Thailand, without some sort of official document.

Do you have a certificate or similar document to prove you are personally appointed by Royal Decree or the Council of Ministers, or is it like the Phuket time share touts, "My boss has my work permit in the office." biggrin.png

Posted (edited)

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

I would suggest items 5 relates to NGO's.

Item 6 is possible, but are their appointments by "Royal Decree?"

Item 7 is also possible, so, do they have permission from the "Council of Ministers?"

So, are the TPV "official" at the Bangkok Government level (Royal Decree / Council of Ministers) or at a local level, thus making them, technically, unofficially appointed?

Bangkok Government Level.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Do you actually have proof of your own appointment? Your previous post suggests you do not.

Quoting an excerpt of The Alien Employment Act hardly gives an individual, or group, permission to volunteer or work in Thailand, without some sort of official document.

Do you have a certificate or similar document to prove you are personally appointed by Royal Decree or the Council of Ministers, or is it like the Phuket time share touts, "My boss has my work permit in the office." biggrin.png

Of course I don't carry around a written document proving I have been appointed by royal decree.

My clear understanding has always been government volunteers are exempt from WP requirements, and Tywais proved that.

All volunteers do possess ID cards signed by the regional superintendent of Royal Thai Police, and the function of police volunteers (whether Thai or foreign) is defined by the Thai penal code, and all Thai laws are considered royal decrees. ( They state this at the top of the code) If I can find an English version I'll post it.

Edited by NomadJoe
Posted (edited)

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh Cont-rare he has no authority what so ever and what actually transpired in the OP's scenario is evidence of that fact. An auxiliary officer is considered untrained and therefore is more of back coverage of the official officer. Muscle if you will but in the above scenario the MOUTH went off.

This was always my understanding. They have no authority. They are there to "assist" police and tourists, usually with translating, but not to actively "police" the public. Eg. vehicle stops and asking for drivers/riders licences.

A while back I found a very detailed English language university level paper on the topic of citizens arrest and "posse comitatus" (a concept which describes a civilians power to detain or arrest another when directed by a sworn police officer to do so) in Thailand vs. western countries. The conclusion was that the laws in Thailand were nearly identical to those in the west. Police volunteers (and any civilian in Thailand for that matter) derive their authority from these laws. Essentially, volunteers do have limited powers, they have the same powers you do. :)

I'll see if I can find that link too. No computer at the moment so won't be right away.

Edited by NomadJoe
Posted

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh Cont-rare he has no authority what so ever and what actually transpired in the OP's scenario is evidence of that fact. An auxiliary officer is considered untrained and therefore is more of back coverage of the official officer. Muscle if you will but in the above scenario the MOUTH went off.

This was always my understanding. They have no authority. They are there to "assist" police and tourists, usually with translating, but not to actively "police" the public. Eg. vehicle stops and asking for drivers/riders licences.

A while back I found a very detailed English language university level paper on the topic of citizens arrest and "posse comitatus" (a concept which describes a civilians power to detain or arrest another when directed by a sworn police officer to do so) in Thailand vs. western countries. The conclusion was that the laws in Thailand were nearly identical to those in the west. Police volunteers (and any civilian in Thailand for that matter) derive their authority from these laws. Essentially, volunteers do have limited powers, they have the same powers you do. smile.png

Which in the real world, let be honest, ammounts to bugger all!

You seem one of the few, genuine, volunteers that want to help so I am not trying to put you or your work down.

Posted

I Have found most (TPV) to be friendly polite and helpful, I have met a total tool in Phuket however.But Overall I won't let the one power tripping bell end, to undo the past experiences.

  • Like 2
Posted

Regardless of whether the PV has the authority to do what he did, he should not be resorting to using language like the OP has quoted.

I am posting before finishing the thread - I would bet that this fella's name is Dave. He is an incredibly rude piece of work. Earlier someone mentioned that the OP should report the conversation - I agree with you, and good luck. I had a similar experience with this man (at least I believe it to be the same man) - he was rude and aggressive and called me a b*tch - and I went to the Chalong Police Station and reported it, but the officer taking my report just giggled.

Where do they find these idiots!?

What nationality, assumed, is he?

If it is the same man, he has an Irish last name and an English accent.

i meet him to a couple of times, not very friendly..

Posted

So, given this TPV does not have a work permit, and volunteering is considered working in Thailand, he is working illegally, and what makes that remarkable is that it is with the full knowledge of police, and is in law enforcement.

A law breaker enforcing the law - how can the individual, and the position, be respected under such circumstances?

Actually you are wrong. There are conditions outlined by the Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 that covers these circumstances that don't require a WP. One of the items 5-7 would cover this one.

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to the performance of specific duties by the alien in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as a member of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as a member of a consular mission;

(3) as a representative of member countries and official of the United Nations and specialised institutions;

(4) as a personal servant coming from foreign countries to work regularly for the person under (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as a person who performs duties or missions in accordance with agreements between the Government of Thailand and foreign government or international organisation;

(6) as a person who performs duties or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as a person permitted, with or without any condition, by the Council of Ministers to enter and perform any duty or mission.

Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521

I would suggest items 5 relates to NGO's.

Item 6 is possible, but are their appointments by "Royal Decree?"

Item 7 is also possible, so, do they have permission from the "Council of Ministers?"

So, are the TPV "official" at the Bangkok Government level (Royal Decree / Council of Ministers) or at a local level, thus making them, technically, unofficially appointed?

Bangkok Government Level.

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Do you actually have proof of your own appointment? Your previous post suggests you do not.

Quoting an excerpt of The Alien Employment Act hardly gives an individual, or group, permission to volunteer or work in Thailand, without some sort of official document.

Do you have a certificate or similar document to prove you are personally appointed by Royal Decree or the Council of Ministers, or is it like the Phuket time share touts, "My boss has my work permit in the office." biggrin.png

Of course I don't carry around a written document proving I have been appointed by royal decree.

My clear understanding has always been government volunteers are exempt from WP requirements, and Tywais proved that.

All volunteers do possess ID cards signed by the regional superintendent of Royal Thai Police, and the function of police volunteers (whether Thai or foreign) is defined by the Thai penal code, and all Thai laws are considered royal decrees. ( They state this at the top of the code) If I can find an English version I'll post it.

So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

Posted (edited)
So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?


I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com Edited by Tywais
Quote issues fixed
Posted

As I have stated on many previous threads, yes he should have a WP. No exception to this requirement exists in Thai Labour legislation.

The reason why he does not have a WP is because the Thai police believe themselves to be above the law. Many years ago (I have been a police volunteer since about 2006), I tried to persuade my Thai superiors to apply for WPs for the TPV team. It was like speaking to a brick wall.

A general comment:

Time and time again we read about crimes committed by police volunteers (Gary Halpin drugs, Dork ? body in the bin murder etc). Time and time again we read about totally unprofessional behavior of some of these foreign volunteers.

The bottom line is that something is clearly very amiss in the assessment and training program for these foreign volunteers for such crimes and behavior to occur.

Is a comprehensive background check being made for new volunteers? (I know that the true answer is no)

Do new applicants undergo psychological tests to ascertain their potential behavior 'in the field'? The answer is no

Are all volunteers monitored and assessed on a regular basis by a competent superior? The answer is no

Do all volunteers speak Thai language to a level sufficient to converse with any Thai police officer or member of the public at an incident? The answer is no

I could go on and on with my constructive criticism of the volunteer programs, but it is simply wasting my energy because no advice or constructive criticism from a foreigner would be taken on board. It's very frustrating!

I still work as a volunteer police officer, but restrict my activities to helping tourists at the airport - I see my work really as a 'PR' role for the Tourist Police for arriving tourists.

Simon

Your point is still valid even taking into account Dokset was never a police volunteer. There was a case in Pattaya similar to Halpins.

Posted (edited)
So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com

Do you have the powers of arrest and do you have the power to conduct vehicle stops and issue fines, whilst unsupervised by Thai Police?

Also, can you give the definition of being "supervised" by Thai Police?

Edited by NamKangMan
Posted

So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com

Do you have the powers of arrest and do you have the power to conduct vehicle stops and issue fines, whilst unsupervised by Thai Police?

Also, can you give the definition of being "supervised" by Thai Police?

As I stated earlier, a volunteer has the same powers of arrest as you do. Any person can arrest another in Thailand if they witness that person commit a crime. This does not apply to traffic infractions.

Outside of direct supervision, volunteers can't issue traffic citations or force a person to be subject to a search. Under direct supervision (sworn Thai police officers must be present and in control) volunteers, whether Thai or foreign, can carry out any legal orders or standing direction given by the sworn Thai police officer.

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

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