Farang Police Volunteer with a very bad attitude.

[NamKangMan]

So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com

Do you have the powers of arrest and do you have the power to conduct vehicle stops and issue fines, whilst unsupervised by Thai Police?

Also, can you give the definition of being "supervised" by Thai Police?

As I stated earlier, a volunteer has the same powers of arrest as you do. Any person can arrest another in Thailand if they witness that person commit a crime. This does not apply to traffic infractions.

Outside of direct supervision, volunteers can't issue traffic citations or force a person to be subject to a search. Under direct supervision (sworn Thai police officers must be present and in control) volunteers, whether Thai or foreign, can carry out any legal orders or standing direction given by the sworn Thai police officer.

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

In the OP's case, would you say he was under the "direct supervision" of the Thai Police at the time he was conducting a vehicle stop, or was he acting alone, with the Thai Police nearby?

I would like to know, what constitutes "direct supervision?"

For me, it's the Thai Police Officer standing next to the TPV, but I could be wrong. The Thai Police Officer could be across the road, or down the road.

What is in your Standard Operating Procedures (SOP's) for "direct supervision?"

Edited June 17, 2014 by NamKangMan

[hansgruber]

When the farang cops try to talk to me I ignore them or pretend I don't speak English.

They have no authority to do traffic stops unless translating for a Thai officer.

Sent from my D6503 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[huahinjoe]

If I see Flappy Farang copper waving me over, I just keep going. Problem solved.

Agree, and dont forget a friendly waving back

[NomadJoe]

So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com

Do you have the powers of arrest and do you have the power to conduct vehicle stops and issue fines, whilst unsupervised by Thai Police?

Also, can you give the definition of being "supervised" by Thai Police?

As I stated earlier, a volunteer has the same powers of arrest as you do. Any person can arrest another in Thailand if they witness that person commit a crime. This does not apply to traffic infractions.

Outside of direct supervision, volunteers can't issue traffic citations or force a person to be subject to a search. Under direct supervision (sworn Thai police officers must be present and in control) volunteers, whether Thai or foreign, can carry out any legal orders or standing direction given by the sworn Thai police officer.

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

In the OP's case, would you say he was under the "direct supervision" of the Thai Police at the time he was conducting a vehicle stop, or was he acting alone, with the Thai Police nearby?

I would like to know, what constitutes "direct supervision?"

For me, it's the Thai Police Officer standing next to the TPV, but I could be wrong. The Thai Police Officer could be across the road, or down the road.

What is in your Standard Operating Procedures (SOP's) for "direct supervision?"

I wasn't there but its reasonable to assume he was working under the direct supervision of the officers present. Volunteers don't just rock up and start working a check point on their own, which it seems you are suggesting is a possibility here.

I have sufficiently explained direct supervision already.

[Tywais]

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

That is not quite accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your statement. Reasonable cause is required to search in public without warrant.

Police may conduct searches and seizures without a warrant when he has reasonable grounds to believe that the suspect has in his possession:

1. Articles that may be used to commit a crime;
2. The fruits of a crime;
3. Illegal items (like illegal substances).

Siam-Legal

[NamKangMan]

So, can I ask, who is your "employer?" Who approves or rejects TPV applications and where do they get the power to accept a new TPV into the ranks?

I am not an employee. I'm a volunteer for the Royal Thai Police.

I think we covered the authority part. Anything else they wish to make public you can find at the TPV website.

http://www.phuket-tourist-police-volunteers.com

Do you have the powers of arrest and do you have the power to conduct vehicle stops and issue fines, whilst unsupervised by Thai Police?

Also, can you give the definition of being "supervised" by Thai Police?

As I stated earlier, a volunteer has the same powers of arrest as you do. Any person can arrest another in Thailand if they witness that person commit a crime. This does not apply to traffic infractions.

Outside of direct supervision, volunteers can't issue traffic citations or force a person to be subject to a search. Under direct supervision (sworn Thai police officers must be present and in control) volunteers, whether Thai or foreign, can carry out any legal orders or standing direction given by the sworn Thai police officer.

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

In the OP's case, would you say he was under the "direct supervision" of the Thai Police at the time he was conducting a vehicle stop, or was he acting alone, with the Thai Police nearby?

I would like to know, what constitutes "direct supervision?"

For me, it's the Thai Police Officer standing next to the TPV, but I could be wrong. The Thai Police Officer could be across the road, or down the road.

What is in your Standard Operating Procedures (SOP's) for "direct supervision?"

I wasn't there but its reasonable to assume he was working under the direct supervision of the officers present. Volunteers don't just rock up and start working a check point on their own, which it seems you are suggesting is a possibility here.

I have sufficiently explained direct supervision already.

No, you have not sufficiently explained "direct supervision" already.

As another member stated, he sees "direct supervision" as translating. I see it similarly, with the TPV standing next to the Thai Policeman.

I do not see "direct supervision" as the Thai Policeman talking to a motorist on one side of the road, while a TPV is on the other side of the road performing a traffic stop and demanding to see licence and vehicle tax sticker.

I am asking for the TPV's "orders" in relation to what constitutes "direct supervision." If you do not know, that's fine, perhaps another TPV can quote your manual.

[NamKangMan]

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

That is not quite accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your statement. Reasonable cause is required to search in public without warrant.

Police may conduct searches and seizures without a warrant when he has reasonable grounds to believe that the suspect has in his possession:

1. Articles that may be used to commit a crime;
2. The fruits of a crime;
3. Illegal items (like illegal substances).

Siam-Legal

I always had the understanding they needed reasonable cause to search.

Can you expalin about the drug tests?

I do not take drugs, but if they come into a nightclub one night, do they have the power to randomly demand a urine sample from me?

Edited June 17, 2014 by NamKangMan

[NomadJoe]

In Thailand, civilians in a public place are subject to searches of their person and vehicles (but not their homes) by police without probable cause or articulable suspicion.

That is not quite accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your statement. Reasonable cause is required to search in public without warrant.

Police may conduct searches and seizures without a warrant when he has reasonable grounds to believe that the suspect has in his possession:

• Articles that may be used to commit a crime;
• The fruits of a crime;
• Illegal items (like illegal substances).

Siam-Legal

Can I refuse Phuket Police 'pat-down' searches?

Recently I was again stopped by police close to my house and searched. They went through my pockets, wallet, my motorcycle and frisked me as well. They were apparently picking out people at random so it wasn’t due to exigent circumstances.

It is generally a very unpleasant experience and I have in the past been told by a policeman doing it that he would “keep an eye on me”.

In all my years here I have never had any problems with the law, so naturally I strongly resent this. What are my rights under these circumstances? Can I refuse the search? Can I demand representation?

Tom, Kathu. Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:50:39 AM

“The Royal Thai Police are empowered by Cabinet resolution and through the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) to set up checkpoints and search people.

We do not need a warrant from the court to search people at checkpoints in any public areas. This is because checkpoints are set up in order to protect public safety.

Sometimes officers cannot stop and check everyone simply because there are too many vehicles passing through the checkpoint at that time.

However, in special circumstances such as when we are trying to apprehend a specific criminal, we will stop and check every person.

No person can refuse to be searched by an officer.

Any person who refuses to let a police officer perform his duty and conduct a search will be charged with obstructing an officer from performing his duty.”

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:50:39 AM Col Sermphan Sirikong, Superintendent, Phuket City Police.

“It is very important to cooperate with police conducting inspections and searches. They do so to improve public safety and to prevent crime in the area.

Also, Section 138 of Thailand Penal Code states: “Whoever, resisting or obstructs an official or a person required by law to assist such official in the due exercise of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fine not exceeding two thousand Baht, or both.”

However, if you are not in a public area and a person identifies him or herself as a law enforcement officer and asks to search you, you have the right to ask that person to show you his or her identification to confirm he or she is indeed a law-enforcement official.

You also have the right to ask to see the warrant empowering that officer to search you.

If they can not present the correct identification and search warrant, you have the right not to be searched.”

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:51:27 AM Werapong Khaokhawong, an officer at the Ministry of Justice’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department Phuket Office.

[Chainsaw]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Chainsaw

[NamKangMan]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

Well, that's what I was trying to get at in a previous post.

If appointed by Royal Decree, or the Council of Ministers, is it to the individual, or the TPV's as a group?

Who is the "employer" of these people? (yes - I know it's not a paid position, it's voluntary)

In other words, who is their boss? Who is the hirer and firer?

[NomadJoe]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

The volunteer in question is not a part of the tourist police volunteers or region 8 volunteers. He works directly with and for the Thai police at his respective station. So no, no foreigner to complain to.

[Chainsaw]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

The volunteer in question is not a part of the tourist police volunteers or region 8 volunteers. He works directly with and for the Thai police at his respective station. So no, no foreigner to complain to.

So what would you advise anyone to do about this and similar situations NJ? Please give us the benefit of your expertise.

I'm sure you wouldn't want one man to be able to sully the reputation of all the Volunteers with his attitude. Would you?

[eezergood]

This volunteer situation seems ridiculously complicated, or is it just me???? tvp, avp, vhs, dnf??? NFClue

[NomadJoe]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

The volunteer in question is not a part of the tourist police volunteers or region 8 volunteers. He works directly with and for the Thai police at his respective station. So no, no foreigner to complain to.

So what would you advise anyone to do about this and similar situations NJ? Please give us the benefit of your expertise.

I'm sure you wouldn't want one man to be able to sully the reputation of all the Volunteers with his attitude. Would you?

I suggested very early in this thread that if someone has a complaint with a member of the royal thai police, they file a complaint at the station which has jurisdiction over the area where they work.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Chainsaw]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

The volunteer in question is not a part of the tourist police volunteers or region 8 volunteers. He works directly with and for the Thai police at his respective station. So no, no foreigner to complain to.

So what would you advise anyone to do about this and similar situations NJ? Please give us the benefit of your expertise.

I'm sure you wouldn't want one man to be able to sully the reputation of all the Volunteers with his attitude. Would you?

I suggested very early in this thread that if someone has a complaint with a member of the royal thai police, they file a complaint at the station which has jurisdiction over the area where they work.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I haven't got any complaint against the Royal Thai Police but against the Farang Police Volunteer. Other folks on this thread have said that when they did complain at Chalong Police station they got laughed at.

Are you seriously suggesting that I make the same futile complaint, knowing that nothing will be done?

Is this man a friend of yours?

Edited June 17, 2014 by Chainsaw

[NomadJoe]

Are there no farang supervisors in the TVP who this man would be answerable to?

If the only place to complain is Chalong Police station where it will be treated as a joke, it seems that the TVP are able to get away with acting outside their remit with impunity.

So they can insult and swear at tourists and expats, lie about their powers etc. and nobody will do anything to correct them?

Please tell me this isn't the situation.

The volunteer in question is not a part of the tourist police volunteers or region 8 volunteers. He works directly with and for the Thai police at his respective station. So no, no foreigner to complain to.

So what would you advise anyone to do about this and similar situations NJ? Please give us the benefit of your expertise.

I'm sure you wouldn't want one man to be able to sully the reputation of all the Volunteers with his attitude. Would you?

I suggested very early in this thread that if someone has a complaint with a member of the royal thai police, they file a complaint at the station which has jurisdiction over the area where they work.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I haven't got any complaint against the Royal Thai Police but against the Farang Police Volunteer. Other folks on this thread have said that when they did complain at Chalong Police station they got laughed at.

Are you seriously suggesting that I make the same futile complaint, knowing that nothing will be done?

Is this man a friend of yours?

I am just telling you what your options are. You could also try HQ in town.

No, I have never met him.

[NomadJoe]

... I'll add that I have tried to be helpful and informative here but its clear you guys don't appreciate it so I won't be commenting any further on this subject. It was a mistake for me to think anything constructive would come of it anyway. If anyone wants more info, I can be reached by pm.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simon43]

Why don't you find him again and video him?

After all, if he is acting in a professional manner, he should have no problems with this.

(I have never had an issue with tourists taking photos/videoing me when I work as a TPV...).

[stevenl]

I haven't got any complaint against the Royal Thai Police but against the Farang Police Volunteer. Other folks on this thread have said that when they did complain at Chalong Police station they got laughed at.

Are you seriously suggesting that I make the same futile complaint, knowing that nothing will be done?

Is this man a friend of yours?

1 person said she was laughed at, and I presume that was some time ago.

The way things are at the moment I'm pretty convinced you'll be taken seriously. Laughing here can also be a sign of embarrassment BTW.

[TeeKay]

You did the right thing. This wannabe has issues. Consider reporting him if you're up to it

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[NomadJoe]

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Your explanation of the distinctions amongst different enforcement agencies is enlightening.

Thanks.

WRONG no authority

Where are you getting your mis-information, poweraudio? I suggest you look up the"posse comitatus" and citizens arrest laws in Thailand.

Actually. when any person is directed by a Thai police officer to assist him, you are not just empowered, you are obligated.

[eezergood]

again in the real world...........

some of these guys are helpful no doubt, but others.....

[nedkellylives]

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Your explanation of the distinctions amongst different enforcement agencies is enlightening.

Thanks.

WRONG no authority

Where are you getting your mis-information, poweraudio? I suggest you look up the"posse comitatus" and citizens arrest laws in Thailand.

Actually. when any person is directed by a Thai police officer to assist him, you are not just empowered, you are obligated.

Theyare not Thai citizensand do not have the rights of Thai citizens, some just think they do

[NomadJoe]

Your explanation of the distinctions amongst different enforcement agencies is enlightening.

Thanks.

WRONG no authority

Where are you getting your mis-information, poweraudio? I suggest you look up the"posse comitatus" and citizens arrest laws in Thailand.

Actually. when any person is directed by a Thai police officer to assist him, you are not just empowered, you are obligated.

Theyare not Thai citizensand do not have the rights of Thai citizens, some just think they do

It's not literal. "Citizens arrest" is actually a misnomer. E.g. you do not have to be a citizen of Thailand to make a citizens arrest in Thailand. You only need to be in Thailand. "Citizens" in this context simply means they are not sworn police officers.

[Chainsaw]

When I first saw Dave at the checkpoint some months ago, I thought it was a good idea to have an English speaking farang there to explain to the tourists why they were being fined etc.

I have never had any problems with the volunteers from any department, in fact I think the immigration volunteers do a sterling job, always helpful.

As shown by this thread there is a lot of confusion about who does what among the numerous volunteer departments. So, like me, most people tend to group them together. - A volunteer is a volunteer!

I'm sure most of them became volunteers because of a genuine desire to help. The problem is, when you have one volunteer that behaves badly, it sullies the reputation of ALL volunteer departments.

I have spoken to a few people about this incident and it seems that Dave carries on like this regularly, apparently he enjoys intimidating people, judging by the comments I've heard. As one person said, " everyone has a Dave story "

I wonder if he treats the tourists in this aggressive manner?

I've no wish for any redress against him, although I think it's sad that anyone would disgrace the uniform and his colleagues just to feed his ego.

I won't be reporting him at Chalong this time as I think it would be futile. I think a far better outcome would be if a few of his volunteer colleagues could explain to him how he's damaging their reputations by his actions.

On a lighter note, as NJ stated, anyone can make a citizens arrest. Well I know for sure that Dave wasn't instructed by the Thai policeman to act in the way he did after I'd been waved through the checkpoint.

Therefore, he was acting illegally. Maybe I should have made a citizen's arrest?

NJ Thanks for your help in clearing up some of the confusion regarding volunteers' powers.

[NomadJoe]

Glad to help Chainsaw. And I am sorry you had a bad experience. I am always surprised at these stories because it just doesn't reflect my experience with the volunteers before or since joining. In fact I find them to be super friendly with people, whether tourists, Thai's or expats, and I try to be this way too. I personally will not work a checkpoint like the police assistants do (region 8 and TPV's don't usually do this anyway) unless, perhaps, it was a late night one where they are looking for drugs and weapons. That to me has value beyond just creating a revenue stream from helmetless tourists.

I am not going to defend anyone actine abusive, however, concerning your thoughts about him stopping you... it is entirely possible, I would say probable, that he did not know that you had already been waved though. Just thinking back to my own experiences in checkpoints, I have been stopped twice by two different cops at the same checkpoint because the cop down the line didn't see I had already been stopped. And in this case, you weren't actually stopped yet and I wouldn't interpret one Thai cop waving you past as permission to carry on past any other officers, or volunteers, waving you to stop.

Edited June 19, 2014 by NomadJoe

[Chainsaw]

It's not remotely possible that he couldn't have known I'd been waved through. No chance of confusion on that score.

There were no other vehicles around and I was stationary, with my wallet in my hand, waiting to show my licence until the Thai policeman waved me through. Dave was across the road.

I stopped again AFTER being waved through in order to put my wallet back in my pocket. Dave was watching me and only reacted the way he did when I held my wallet up to indicate why I had stopped.

[NomadJoe]

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh Cont-rare he has no authority what so ever and what actually transpired in the OP's scenario is evidence of that fact. An auxiliary officer is considered untrained and therefore is more of back coverage of the official officer. Muscle if you will but in the above scenario the MOUTH went off.

Title 18: Power of the Traffic Officer and Competent Officer

Section 136

The Director General can appoint instructors to instruct traffic volunteers who assist competent officers.

Section 137

In performing his duty assigned to him under this Act, a traffic volunteer shall be an officer under the Criminal Code.

[Asiantravel]

He is referred to as a police assistant and not a part of either the tourist police or region 8 police volunteers.

Police volunteers in Thailand, whether Thai or foreign, posses the same authority as the officers directly supervising them. You're right, he's not a real policeman, but he is also right that you are required to show him your tax disc, DL etc. if he was instructed by the police to do so, and sounds like he was, although sounds as though he may have been a dick about it which certainly doesn't help the image of the foreign volunteers.

Sent from my Lenovo A369i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He is a dick for the very fact of not understanding life is too short to want to volunteer your valuable time parading around in a silly bl**dy pretend uniform

[bubblegum]

I was stopped by a foreign police man the other day, bit of an old man, my guess he was an ex sailor seeing the terrible anchor tattoo an his arm but he was very nice and polite.