Greater focus on history and citizens duties

[rametindallas]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

The points you make about the importance of teaching history are true. But whose version history will be taught? The juntas, the royalists, the democrats or perhaps yours, with your distorted view of Thaksin. Thaksin was far from blameless but he was just one cog in the bizarre mess that is Thai politics. To single him out is to distort Thai history. Anyway, history is written by the victors so we know what will be taught in the classrooms of Thailand.

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

The bitter hatred that you demonstrate for Thaksin when espoused by Thais is part of the problem. That is why I suggested moving on and looking for a solution. A new way. Ranting about the evils of Thaksin is not going to solve anything, it is divisive.

You're so protective of Thaksin that my stating facts is perceived by you as hatred. I feel sad for you. i don't hate anyone; that requires more energy than they are worth and wouldn't hurt them but would cause illness in me. Hate is a useless emotion along with envy and jealousy. I know from keeping up with Thaksin since 1999 what sort of person he has become and my best Thai friend who knew him since he was a police superintendent has remarked on the changes in Thaksin while still staying loyal to him. The general had to warn him directly to stop interfering in Thai politics just yesterday. He and you cannot let go.

[citizen33]

It seems to me that any serious analysis of Thai history (or political science or sociology for that matter) from within the country is highly risky now.

[Thai at Heart]

Citizens duties?????

What?

It is to know your place in the pecking order, not to question authority and keep your opinions to yourself.

I know that's what it is, I just didn't think it was officially part of the curriculum alongside physics.

[cmsally]

It seems to me that any serious analysis of Thai history (or political science or sociology for that matter) from within the country is highly risky now.

Precisely; which is why any kind of education and anything trying to resemble academia is such a farce . When one finds oneself going to publications such as Irrawaddy to see if they have any kind of intelligent articles on Thailand, you really do have to do a double take.

[Lupatria]

I'll bet the history content will be very carefully selected and edited.

Citizen's duties will be taught along other three topics - religion, economics and geology...

If they were not scared to show the forbidden movie “1984” in schools, maybe the students (future proles) would learn a lot more about (human)rights, liberties, and democracy.

Btw, shouldn’t it read: the conveniently modified History and Citizen's Duties Course Development Committee?

[metisdead]

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[Neurath]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Until anything can be taught with the freedom to ask questions and have a truthful and diverse discussion you are wasting your time.

No can do. Thai language and culture is so heavily invested in identifying and respecting the status of the speaker that it becomes extraordinarily difficult without great rudeness to separate the speaker from what is said. But it's that separation that allows for critical thinking and contest of ideas. And therein lies the true problematic nub and hub of education reform in the country. Those at the top seem to think that the problems in country have come about because of a falling away from 'authentic' Thai culture. Perhaps a large part of the current impasse is the opposite.

[HUAHIN62]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

The question is will these changes make the Thai young more competitive in an intergrated ASEAN and or world labor market? I think you know the answer.

[Aussie Paul]

I'll bet the history content will be very carefully selected and edited.

It already is. What passes for 'history' in the Thai educations system is 50% whitewash and 50% fantasy.

[bigbamboo]

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You've studied Thai history, have you? Ever heard of Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat?

Makes you appreciate how lucky we are to have General Prayuth in our midst.

[wwest5829]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

After reading the book Thaksin, I found both admiration and recognition of the changes he started, as well as, understanding that he fell into the same trap many leaders in history fell into. IMHO it is best for Thailand that he not return. Still some of the changes brought will positively affect Thailand for the future. I am thinking here that the citizens of areas outside the Bangkok central region will demand more attention and resources from those in power.

Just a note of clarification from wikiquotes: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

• This famous statement has produced many paraphrases and variants:
  • Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
  • Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
  • Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
  • Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
  • Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
• There is a similar quote by Edmund Burke that often leads to misattribution, "People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors."

Edited June 15, 2014 by wwest5829

[Hawk]

Thai students will only study what the ruling elite deem that they need to know and nothing more!

Anyway, there are already vast sections of recent history missing from the history books. And so it will go.

[rametindallas]

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You've studied Thai history, have you? Ever heard of Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat?

Makes you appreciate how lucky we are to have General Prayuth in our midst.

All fab4 can do is throw out a name of a 'repressive' general. In my post, I didn't ask for the 'worst' PM, I asked if there was a more corrupt or divisive PM. I can't find evidence that Field Marshal Sarit enriched himself at the public coffers (like Thaksin did) or divided society (like Thaksin did). He was not liked by anyone. Sarit is a totally different kind of disaster for Thailand than was Thaksin. No comparison.

[Robby nz]

Please let this country make his own mistakes, I bet in your country they have learn from that too, however if I read all the stories here I have my doubts.

Don't you think its reasonable to learn from the mistakes of others rather than make the same mistakes over again ?

[rametindallas]

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You've studied Thai history, have you? Ever heard of Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat?

Makes you appreciate how lucky we are to have General Prayuth in our midst.

Yes indeed, just what the world needs, yet another dictator. Heil Generalissimo, we welcome you and your tanks, guns, forced imprisonment etc.

Admit it. What you don't like is the dismantling of the Thaksin criminal empire and the reforms that benefit all Thai instead of Thaksin and his cronies. BTW, where are the tanks and guns? Who is being forcibly imprisoned. Hyperbole, much?

[Benmart]

Citizens duties?????

What?

In the old days, at least in the USA, it was called "Citizenship".

[rametindallas]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

The question is will these changes make the Thai young more competitive in an intergrated ASEAN and or world labor market? I think you know the answer.

Young Thais growing up knowing they share a common history and educated to be civic minded will make for a more cohesive society that will definitely benefit Thailand in the competition within the AEC.

AEC will not, IMO, integrate members of ASEAN and is not meant to. AEC is to create an economic zone to boost ASEAN's competitiveness against the likes of China, USA, and the EC.

[cmsally]

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You've studied Thai history, have you? Ever heard of Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat?

Makes you appreciate how lucky we are to have General Prayuth in our midst.

All fab4 can do is throw out a name of a 'repressive' general. In my post, I didn't ask for the 'worst' PM, I asked if there was a more corrupt or divisive PM. I can't find evidence that Field Marshal Sarit enriched himself at the public coffers (like Thaksin did) or divided society (like Thaksin did). He was not liked by anyone. Sarit is a totally different kind of disaster for Thailand than was Thaksin. No comparison.

If you look at the period immediately after his death concerning the dispute of his will it should be clearly detailed.

As for divisiveness, it really didn't get that far as he mostly crushed his enemies.

But his rule does show up a lot of things that are problematic about Thai politics and society.

[fab4]

All fab4 can do is throw out a name of a 'repressive' general. In my post, I didn't ask for the 'worst' PM, I asked if there was a more corrupt or divisive PM. I can't find evidence that Field Marshal Sarit enriched himself at the public coffers (like Thaksin did) or divided society (like Thaksin did). He was not liked by anyone. Sarit is a totally different kind of disaster for Thailand than was Thaksin. No comparison.

Unbelievable. Was Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat a political leader or not? Not divisive? Can't find any evidence that he enriched himself from the public coffers?

I can only assume that your study of Thai history was about as in depth as the history taught in today's Thai schools.

Sarit is a cult figure among many Thais. It may even be true, as they think, that the dictatorial era was a phase that Thailand, as nation, had to go through before it could evolve into the democratic society that many take for granted today. But it would also be wrong to try to compartmentalise Sarit's "achievements" as a national leader and praise him for his "decisive leadership" without taking into account the cost to Thailand: the total disregard for the dignity of citizens whose rights and freedom were brutally suppressed, the countless number of political opponents murdered and the billions of baht of taxpayer's money stolen.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Dictator-Sarits-image-burnished-61.html

[Emptyset]

The bitter hatred that you demonstrate for Thaksin when espoused by Thais is part of the problem. That is why I suggested moving on and looking for a solution. A new way. Ranting about the evils of Thaksin is not going to solve anything, it is divisive.

Yep, Rametindallas accuses others of being Thaksin fanatics or being obssesed or whatever, yet I've barely seen a post by him that doesn't mention "Dr Thaksin" or "the Shins". Why would Thaksin be the object of history lessons taught now anyway? What we're talking about is mostly pre-20th century history and early 20th century history. The question to ask regarding Thaksin is how does someone like him come to be widely loved, revered and hated in equal measure? What engendered the conditions that made it possible? Why did UDD claims about "amaat" and "phrai" resonate with the red shirts? Why do masses mobilize and move? It isn't as simple as "Dr Thaksin tricked them", and I hope such simplistic nonsense isn't what Ramet thinks should pass for history.

I'd also look at why Thais revere authority figures so much and why puyai often seem to command blind respect, whatever nonsense they're spouting. It goes back deep into Thai history, but it's perpetuated deliberately by the way Thai history is taught. Many Thais come out of school not knowing the name of Pridi Banomyong, one of the few Thai figures of historical import who tried to challenge this system. For doing so, he was punished and exiled for it. That he isn't discussed in history classes isn't surprising, but it is damning indictment of the way it's taught.

Now instead of trying to change that, the junta is actually doubling down on these old methods. There was already a more than enough of it. And now there will be even more of it. More nationalism. More narrowminded "exceptionalism". More blinkered parochial idiocy and xenophobia. And, of course, more songs:

Oh Wong-Arthichart @oh_kub · 31m

min. of edu. prepare to give 35 nationalistic propaganda songs to play in every school during morning and lunch break.

[attrayant]

I'm a little puzzled by the mention of religion. According to the now-defunct constitution #17, there is no state-sanctioned religion here. Who knows what constitution #18 holds in store for us. Or will this be a broad approach to religions in general? That might be an interesting course, but it seems too esoteric for any grade below college freshman.

Edited June 15, 2014 by attrayant

[Emster23]

Those who control the present, control the past

Those who control the past control the future

My ex went to school for gifted. Asked her what they taught about WWII. She said taught that "America was very bad for dropping atomic bombs on Japan". End of story.

[ourmanflint]

Sounds like the General, might be referring to his own schooling and the emphasis on the cultural mandates, which aim to teach the Thai people what it means to be "Thai".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

[Emptyset]

History when taught well teaches children how to think for themselves. When taught badly, for e.g. just a list of dates and a narrow view of events from the past as gove in the UK wants it taught, it is useless at best and indoctrination at worst.

I can't stand Gove either but at least history in UK schools will still bear at least a passing resemblance to what actually happened... (hopefully). I can't agree with Rametindallas above at all, I'm afraid. It's better to teach no history at all rather than a history which is more or less pure propaganda.

Really - how do you know what actually happened?

In the USA in the 60's we were taught about heroic Christian settlers battling heathen savages and concepts like "manifest destiny" and "we owe the national debt to ourselves", all while being forced to pledge our allegiance to a nation "under God".

It's the same BS in every country.

To a greater or lesser degree, yes. Actually, you're right, there is no singular truth about the past, just different ways of interpreting it, some more accurate than others. Children should be made aware of this, but instead they're going to be fed a deliberately dishonest version which has as its aim the preservation of the status quo. And they'll be told: "this is the truth and you're unpatriotic if you question it".

[DrTuner]

What they don't understand is that the youngsters already have mobiles and access to wikipedia. I've been caught a couple of times by my stepdaughter for making up some juicy story about history.

The teaching method of rote memorization of the made available propaganda is already being shadowed by information in the internet. It doesn't much matter what they decide.

[Torrens54]

Translation: The poor need to know their place and accept the status quo otherwise military jail and bullshit law/military detention awaits.

Wow, what a poor, bitter and twisted soul you are.

Did one of those big burly Soldier Boys or Girls, run over your little peddle car in their Great Big APC or something?

If you don't like it, NO BODY is forcing you to stay here.

[Torrens54]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

Hmmff! Now you've upset my entire weekend with the above comments!

I was going to say much the same, but you beat me to it.

Cheers!!!

[maxme]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

The points you make about the importance of teaching history are true. But whose version history will be taught? The juntas, the royalists, the democrats or perhaps yours, with your distorted view of Thaksin. Thaksin was far from blameless but he was just one cog in the bizarre mess that is Thai politics. To single him out is to distort Thai history. Anyway, history is written by the victors so we know what will be taught in the classrooms of Thailand.

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You of all people should know that history can be rewritten. The difference here is that westerners can analyze, spot errors and object against the revision whilst the Thais are simply silenced one way or the other. How you can twist this into a

'So do we' thing is amazing.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[maxme]

Translation: The poor need to know their place and accept the status quo otherwise military jail and bullshit law/military detention awaits.

Wow, what a poor, bitter and twisted soul you are.

Did one of those big burly Soldier Boys or Girls, run over your little peddle car in their Great Big APC or something?

If you don't like it, NO BODY is forcing you to stay here.

Speaking of the uneducated...

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[rametindallas]

At US high schools, the subjects are state and US history and Civics. Civics teaches that democracy comes with responsibilities as well as freedoms/rights; something sorely lacking in Thailand today. The ignorant jerks who posted before me have their noses out of joint because they are pissed that their hero, Thaksin, is de-clawed and they will denigrate anything done by the NCPO.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" - Edmund Burke. Teaching history allows citizens to learn from previous generations' mistakes e.g. thinking populist policies are sustainable a' la Greece. Knowing the history of one's province and nation can lead to understanding of how the system, in place today, came to be and can, also, become a point of pride at what was done right. Teaching civics makes better citizens when those citizens learn that the success of the entire country depends on everyone working together for the common good. Dr. Thaksin did his best to divide North and Northeast from the Southerners, the well-off and middle-class from the poor, the city dwellers from the rural, and the Monarchists from the Republicans. His selfish, personal goals were achieved by the old maxim of 'divide and conquer'. I never saw such divisions until Thaksin fled the country and formed the UDD. What he did is terrible for Thailand and Thai people. A personality cult must never again exist in Thailand and education is the key to preventing another Thaksin.

The points you make about the importance of teaching history are true. But whose version history will be taught? The juntas, the royalists, the democrats or perhaps yours, with your distorted view of Thaksin. Thaksin was far from blameless but he was just one cog in the bizarre mess that is Thai politics. To single him out is to distort Thai history. Anyway, history is written by the victors so we know what will be taught in the classrooms of Thailand.

Go ahead, name ONE Thai political leader who has had bigger successes enriching himself and created more divisions in Thai society than Dr. Thaksin during the last 65 years (living memory). I've studied Thai history and there was no single individual, civilian or military who enriched himself more and caused more divisions in society. He made himself a cult figure. Thaksin was not a cog, he was the engine. I noticed you didn't refute even one accusation I made re: Thaksin. Stop being a Thaksin apologist; it makes you look either ignorant or immoral. I didn't single Dr. Thaksin out, either, as I also mentioned the string of populist governments that drove modern Greece to bankruptcy. In any classroom history book, the evils are often softened or glossed over, e.g. Richard Nixon. JFK was a philanderer, while in the White House, but that fact isn't in any classroom history books. No school history book in Thailand would ever be as blunt as I, so you can stop worrying about how Dr. Thaksin will be portrayed in future Thai history books. Historians, on he other hand, will be able to know all the dirty details because things get reported now. When the NCPO finishes uncovering all the corruption of Dr. Thaksin's last puppet government (PTP), his reputation, even among the rural poor of the Northeast, will be diminished even further. Too many ignorant people still believe that only one man can save Thailand; that 'cult of personality' must be ended for democracy to bloom. Of course, all those details won't be discussed in any great detail in any Thai history book because of 'krieng jai' (unwillingness to offend).

You of all people should know that history can be rewritten. The difference here is that westerners can analyze, spot errors and object against the revision whilst the Thais are simply silenced one way or the other. How you can twist this into a

'So do we' thing is amazing.

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History books are full of inaccuracies and political bias. My main point was that learning history, in general, can be used as a 'cautionary tale' of where fanaticism can lead and, can also be a cohesive force that let's students know they share a common background. My other point is that school history textbooks rarely touch on details of the kind we discuss daily on this forum. All will be glossed over and, in Thailand, no one will be portrayed in too bad a light for fear of offending. (It may actually be the reason history is not taught much at all in Thailand) Dr. Thaksin's brief chapter won't be included in any curricula until long after his death so, not to worry. True historians, at university level, will have access to press accounts, participant's memoirs, and government records to write theses that no one will read. As long as Article 112 of the Thai Constitution is in effect, no comprehensive history of Thailand will be available in Thailand.