Parents Of Children Selling Garlands May Face State Penalties

[Jai Dee]

Parents abusing children to sell garlands may face state penalties

Parents who use their children to sell flowers and garlands at intersections can be penalized and those minors taken into state custody.

Social Development and Welfare Department chief Panita Kampu na Ayutthaya (พนิตา กำภู ณ อยุธยา) said the agency has already helped those parents by giving them occupational trainings and money to start their own businesses and also providing their children scholarships.

They still put the lives of their children in danger, however, by going on with flower and garland sales at the intersections, Mrs. Panita said.

She said the department will give those parents a warning.

If they violated the Child Rights Protection Act again, the department could take back the money and put their children into state custody, she said.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 June 2006

[Scott]

I always assumed that children were the property of their parents here.

It's about time the gov't begins to see that not all the things that parents do are right. Or maybe there is too much money to be made in the garland selling business!

[chownah]

People selling things at intersections and in the lanes of traffic are creating a distraction for drivers and pedestrians and thus creating a dangerous situation for not only themselves but everyone in the vicinity. This type of activity should be outlawed and the ban strictly enforced as a public safety measure.

[stumonster]

People selling things at intersections and in the lanes of traffic are creating a distraction for drivers and pedestrians and thus creating a dangerous situation for not only themselves but everyone in the vicinity. This type of activity should be outlawed and the ban strictly enforced as a public safety measure.

I would hazard a guess that distractions from mobile phones cause more accidents and injury than garland sellers at traffic lights but I doubt we will see a rush to regulate their usage.

[bino]

I agree that this is total child abuse.

Nine times out of ten the child selling garlands is not wearing any shoes. I'm sure that the parents make them go shoeless to make motorists sympathetic and generate more sales. Especially so when you consider that a pair of cheap flip flops can be had for 20 baht... equivalent to 1 or 2 sales. I have also noticed children working during what would be regular school hours.

Any parent who would send a child out to work in a busy intersection on hot pavement with bare feet has their own greedy interest at heart, and definitely not the child's best interests. Parents like this deserve to lose their children to the state, who would provide a safer environment and education.

I do buy the garlands... hang them from my rearview mirror to make my car smell nice. There is a woman who works at the Lad Prao / Ratchadaphisek junction, which is part of my daily route to work. She hustles her *ss, and probably makes a reasonable living. She knows my car- and comes running when she sees me!

Having said that- I would never buy from a child, especially one with no shoes. I'll be d*mned if I am going to put one satang in that parent's pocket.

Edited June 21, 2006 by bino

[Axel]

Take BKK Sukhumvit around Asoke crossing. The government had put bushes in the center, wires etc. to avoid people crossing the street illegally.

The children selling flowers and staff walk up and down the green divider knocking of the plants and the grass.

What did the government do? Put tiles on to make the way easier for the children.

Or any other reason?

[Heng]

It's a good start I think. Intersection vendors and especially the new windshield wiper/beggar trend of the last few years are one of the few truly annoying things. Buying or donating to these folks only teaches them that begging (and not working) pays.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Take BKK Sukhumvit around Asoke crossing. The government had put bushes in the center, wires etc. to avoid people crossing the street illegally.

The children selling flowers and staff walk up and down the green divider knocking of the plants and the grass.

What did the government do? Put tiles on to make the way easier for the children.

Or any other reason?

Would you have preffered broken glass to tiles?

[leisurely]

I find it tragic that anyone has to stand in traffic fumes selling stinky flowers . I suppose you could argue that they are working rather than begging. Agree that the children need an education though

[Scott]

I am going to watch this story as it develops, but I doubt that it's going to go very far. Several months ago, the gov't tried to get the children selling garlands to switch to selling coupons for the expressway. This scheme didn't work, because they can make more money selling garlands. I understand selling garlands is relatively lucrative.

From this one has to wonder what the motives are. It certainly doesn't seem that it had much to do with wanting the kids off the street.

[chownah]

I am going to watch this story as it develops, but I doubt that it's going to go very far. Several months ago, the gov't tried to get the children selling garlands to switch to selling coupons for the expressway. This scheme didn't work, because they can make more money selling garlands. I understand selling garlands is relatively lucrative.

From this one has to wonder what the motives are. It certainly doesn't seem that it had much to do with wanting the kids off the street.

Its a public safety issue. People in the street distract motorists and pedestrians causing an increase in mishaps. This is especially important at intersections where accidents are more likely to happen even without the added distraction.

It is a traffic flow issue. People in the street tend to make people drive more slowly so the traffic flow will overall slow down because of these people on the streets and medians.

At least this is what they taught me when I attended university and when I worked as a transportation engineer.

Chownah

Edited June 22, 2006 by chownah

[jdinasia]

This is Thailand ... slowing people down on the streets is a GOOD thing

[chownah]

This is Thailand ... slowing people down on the streets is a GOOD thing

Gridlock is great, I agree.

[jdinasia]

hmmm I guess you mean in BKK ... though the story didn't state just BKK. However the street folks selling stuff to car windows are IMHO a bad thing for the people actually selling the stuff.

They have little enough affect on traffic here though. One could wish that is did slow traffic down to posted speeds in places where traffic opens up though!

The lead story talks about having helped the parents of these kids in the past ... do they think that when they help move some out of doing that ... that there aren't a large number waiting to fill the vacuum?

[astral]

It is a way to pass the 5 minute wait at the lights.

They have crack downs on these kids and the window washers, from time

to time, but like everything else it is a knee jerk reaction and soon forgotten as politicians move on to the next headline catcher.

[Jai Dee]

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will find ways to end garland trade at intersections

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will hold a brainstorming session to work out measures to solve problems of children selling garland at street intersections.

Caretaker minister Wattana Muangsuk (วัฒนา ม่วงสุข) said the ministry will invite child rights activists and children protection organizations to jointly find ways to stop child exploitation once and for all.

Mr. Wattana said the ministry has already helped by providing young garland sellers scholarships and their parents occupational training but that could not end the trade.

He said the ministry has no power to arrest the sellers and force parents to stop using their children. He hoped the discussion to be held will be able to produce some effective measures.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 July 2006

[Scott]

Just as I figured--suddenly they can't figure out what law is being broken--althopugh I am sure it could fall into a number of categories of broken laws.

By the way, these kids are at intersections that are very busy and they sell flowers when the traffic is stopped. I've never seen them stopping traffic. When the cars start going, they get back on the median (usually).

After the story first broke, for a few days there was a noticable absence of the vendors in my area, but I saw they were back quickly. Since they sell at intersections that are manned by police, it was obvious nothing was going to be done.

So now a brainstorming session--I doubt that much rain will come out of that storm!

[Old Man River]

Just as I figured--suddenly they can't figure out what law is being broken--althopugh I am sure it could fall into a number of categories of broken laws.

By the way, these kids are at intersections that are very busy and they sell flowers when the traffic is stopped. I've never seen them stopping traffic. When the cars start going, they get back on the median (usually).

After the story first broke, for a few days there was a noticable absence of the vendors in my area, but I saw they were back quickly. Since they sell at intersections that are manned by police, it was obvious nothing was going to be done.

So now a brainstorming session--I doubt that much rain will come out of that storm!

The story first broke during the 60th Anniversary celebrations and street vendors were banned all over Bangkok. It didn't take long to get back to normal.

Wherever you have poverty without social support programs you will have beggars and street vendors. Targeting the parents will just cause them to move to some other way of using their children to support the family.

[soic]

It's not only done in Thailand and it's not "ALWAYS" child abuse to have your children help you with chores or in a business. I used to help my step-father work on cars, I sold Christmas Cards, had a paper route and mowed lawns and any other work I could find. I know that Child Abuse happens and those that commit it should be tortured and jailed, but give me a break, not everything is Child abuse. If we spank them, if we raise our voice to them, I was even told that it was abuse if I made my son wait until dinner time to eat, because he refused to eat his lunch at the restaurant, just because he was mad at his mother. We coddle them, give them everything, then wonder why they don't listen, don't work, don't appreciate anything and claim to know everything about nothing. When I was growing up, I knew what child abuse iwas... for me it was the beatings I recieved from my natural father daily. For me spankings involved black eyes and lots of bruises. Now days, we can get in trouble for saying boo to the kids. I don't want to spark a debate on abuse, but let's not call helping the family abuse, sometimes it's not.

Let's also not forget, at least those of us that have been fortunate enough... The selling of Fresh Krispy Kreme doughnuts in intersections all around Atlanta, Georgia, USA/

[Jai Dee]

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will prepare assistance measures for street garland vendors

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will set up a database of children who sell garlands and flowers at 10 intersections in Bangkok.

Permanent-Secretary Wanlop Ploythapthim (วัลลภ พลอยทับทิม) said information will be used by agencies concerned in working out assistance measures.

Mr. Wanlop said parents are putting the lives of their children, some as young as six years old, in danger by making them sell garlands and flowers at various intersections .

There are about 30 young vendors at Yommaraj (ยมราช) intersection alone, he said, adding they come from 23 families living nearby.

Mr. Wanlop said officials will take photographs and gather information about young street hawkers throughout Bangkok and put them in the database.

The ministry has planned to send social welfare officials and psychologists to survey their problems and then work with other agencies to protect these children from labour abuse, he said.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 July 2006

[Scott]

SOIC, you by the way, were a victim of child abuse and it doesn't appear that you are a particularly happy or content person because of your pass. This thread is about something else, it's about child endangerment.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with children working, especially if they are under the supervision of the parents while doing it. Being a productive part of a family unit is good and healthy and teaches responsibility to children.

The difficulty here is that these children are put in a particularly dangerous situation. Have you seen how people drive in Bangkok? Nothing, even passengers, aren't safe in BKK. Not to mention the gasoline fumes and other pollutants. They are out at odd hours, late at night etc. Somewhere there are parents who are watching because they know the children can get more money than an adult. This is exploitation.

My interest in the story, sadly, has less to do with the children than with the gov't. I keep waiting for them to decide to do something and then actually follow through with it and DO IT. It's not the parents that are so much at fault as a government that doesn't enforce it's laws, especially when those laws relate to the youngest and most innocent in a society.

[bino]

It's not only done in Thailand and it's not "ALWAYS" child abuse to have your children help you with chores or in a business. I used to help my step-father work on cars, I sold Christmas Cards, had a paper route and mowed lawns and any other work I could find.

I did things like this too, and believe that it is good to teach children the value of money by making them earn it instead of spoiling them and giving them everything automatically.

Having said that, I do believe that taking Thai children out of school and making them sell garlands under a hot sun, on hot pavement with no shoes is complete child abuse. Any parent who does this has their own selfish and lazy best interests in mind, not that of the child.

All of the jobs I did as a child were nowhere near as potentially dangerous as standing in a busy intersection, never conflicted with my schooling, and I was never expected to be the breadwinner and provide for my parents.

[soic]

I agree with both of you 100%. I don't think that children should be endangered in that heavy traffic. It's the part of making it a nationwide law. I live in the Isaan and there are many stands beside the road that are ran by the family. Mom, Dad and the kids all working together. I would just hate to see all suffer because of those in Bangkok or the bigger cities.

As for me... I am a very happy and content person. I believe that going through what I did made me a better parent. I know the difference between a spanking and a beating. I have more patience with my children than some. I give respect to them and recieve it in return. It hasn't made me bitter nor has it made me a chicken little pointing my finger at everybody. I just don't like to see everyone going overboard and calling everything abuse. Heck to some, abuse is withholding allowance. I apologize for the missing the point. I don't want to start a rant about abuse.

[aaaaaa]

I was told many times by Thais, that many or most of such kids selling flowers and garlands, especially on Sukhumvit - are not even thai kids, but from Cambodia .... true or not ?

[Scott]

SOIC, glad you clarified things. Some rocks get polished in the stream of life and others get worn away--seems you have been polished and are stronger for things.

I agree with all. I don't want a rant about abuse. With a lot of these families the issues are too complex to just label as abuse. You have families that are truly poor and have few or no options but to involve the children. You have families that simply want and are happier with the kids working/helping them.

My biggest concern is the gov'ts attitude. One day they are going to throw the parents in jail and take the kids away, the next they want them to sell expressway coupons, and then they decide that they can't do anything. If it's a law, then enforce it. Tell people what they mean by "children"--under 6, 12, 14?

There are laws about going to school etc. Do they check to see if these kids are in school?

[soic]

I'm afraid that many of the programs are just knee jerk reactions. There is a problem, let's fix it this way. It reminds me of a problem the Canadians had for a while. I guess there was a waiting list for MRI's, it was virtually impossible for patients to get one, so they went to a veterinarian to get one. The government said... that's terrible. They fixed the problem by making it illegal to go to the veterinarian. It did nothing to alleviate the problem, just eliminated an alternate means. Sometimes the "solution" is worse than the problem.

[Jai Dee]

Legal action will be taken against parents forcing their children to sell garlands

Parents who use their children aged below 15 to sell garlands at various Bangkok’s intersections can face legal action.

Sappasit Khumprapan (สรรพสิทธ์ คุมประพันธ์), director of the Child Rights Protection Foundation, said those parents can be sued for violating the Children Protection Act which carries criminal punishment.

The foundation is campaigning to save children from danger on the streets. Mr. Sappasit asked the public to call authorities at 1300 if they see small children sell things on the streets.

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry is providing occupational training to families of young garland vendors.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 02 August 2006

[terry57]

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will find ways to end garland trade at intersections

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry will hold a brainstorming session to work out measures to solve problems of children selling garland at street intersections.

Caretaker minister Wattana Muangsuk (วัฒนา ม่วงสุข) said the ministry will invite child rights activists and children protection organizations to jointly find ways to stop child exploitation once and for all.

Mr. Wattana said the ministry has already helped by providing young garland sellers scholarships and their parents occupational training but that could not end the trade.

He said the ministry has no power to arrest the sellers and force parents to stop using their children. He hoped the discussion to be held will be able to produce some effective measures.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 July 2006

well if they were serious about this situation the government would pass new legislation banning the practice would they not ?

of course they wont as then they have to figure out a way of offering these poor kids an alternative for survival.

nothing new in los people and its the same same but different angle once again.

when a country has no social security system this is always going to present its self as these kids have to make money for themselves as well as there parents.

things will never change unless the government is prepared to bite the bullet and supply a decent education for the underclass.

the bullet will always remain unmarked. no doubt about that is there ?

[terry57]

It's not only done in Thailand and it's not "ALWAYS" child abuse to have your children help you with chores or in a business. I used to help my step-father work on cars, I sold Christmas Cards, had a paper route and mowed lawns and any other work I could find. I know that Child Abuse happens and those that commit it should be tortured and jailed, but give me a break, not everything is Child abuse. If we spank them, if we raise our voice to them, I was even told that it was abuse if I made my son wait until dinner time to eat, because he refused to eat his lunch at the restaurant, just because he was mad at his mother. We coddle them, give them everything, then wonder why they don't listen, don't work, don't appreciate anything and claim to know everything about nothing. When I was growing up, I knew what child abuse iwas... for me it was the beatings I recieved from my natural father daily. For me spankings involved black eyes and lots of bruises. Now days, we can get in trouble for saying boo to the kids. I don't want to spark a debate on abuse, but let's not call helping the family abuse, sometimes it's not.

Let's also not forget, at least those of us that have been fortunate enough... The selling of Fresh Krispy Kreme doughnuts in intersections all around Atlanta, Georgia, USA/

we have this precise situation in oz and these stupid laws are ruining our children as they know all the laws about what parents are allowed to do and what there not aloud to do.

problem is they no nothing about being disaplined in a constructive way and are running riot within the school system and at home.

the goverment is insane to allow these laws to stand.

dont see this happenning in asian schools as they get there arse kicked.

[rishi]

Parents abusing children to sell garlands may face state penalties

Parents who use their children to sell flowers and garlands at intersections can be penalized and those minors taken into state custody.

Social Development and Welfare Department chief Panita Kampu na Ayutthaya (พนิตา กำภู ณ อยุธยา) said the agency has already helped those parents by giving them occupational trainings and money to start their own businesses and also providing their children scholarships.

They still put the lives of their children in danger, however, by going on with flower and garland sales at the intersections, Mrs. Panita said.

She said the department will give those parents a warning.

If they violated the Child Rights Protection Act again, the department could take back the money and put their children into state custody, she said.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 June 2006

... provided the state doesn't just put the kids back on the streets to make money --- the kids would be better off without those parents ordering their poor kids (with nostrils in exhaustion height) out among those cars ... It isn't important wether those parents are just ignorant or just greedy ... they obviously don't know how to help their offspring to survive ...