Unique situation, wanting to move to Thailand...

[nusder05]

I am an American citizen, my wife is a Thai citizen with a valid 10 year green card received via a fiancé visa. She has lived with me in the states now for the past 5 years. We have started talking about moving to Thailand together. I'm 27, she is 28. What are my options or routes of making this possible? I have lived in Thailand once before for 6 months with tourist visas, and honestly I don't want to deal with that process again. Is there a better way? Her parents own a restaurant that my wife could easily take over since they are getting older and she has cooking skills. I would love to be able to help with this as well. I'm not out to make a lot of money, but are there jobs available for people that don't have a college degree? We would like to live there for a several years if possible. Any help is extremely appreciated! Thank you in advance!

[ubonjoe]

Since you are married to a Thai You can non immigrant O visas and one year extensions of stay at immigration.

You could apply for a single entry non-o that would give you a 90 day permit to stay that could be extended. You would need 400k baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or proof of 40k baht income to qualify.

You could also apply a multiple entry non-o visa at the embassy or one of the consulates that would give you 90 day entries for a year. Normally financial proof is not required for this visa.

With either the non-o visa or the extension of stay based upon marriage you can get a work permit and work.

In order to help your wife with the restaurant you would need to get a work permit. The restaurant would have to registered as sole proprietorship or as a partnership or a company for you to get the work permit.

You can find work without a degree but you have qualified in some type of profession or skill.

[nusder05]

Wow, ubonjoe, you helped me with so much back when my wife and I were working on her fiancé visa and my tourist visas, so happy to see you on here helping folks out! Thanks for the info, perfect for me to get started! When I do move there I am buying you coffee kind sir and meals are always on the house at my inlaws restaurant!

[happynthailand]

just a thought,you know your wife can bring most of the house hold stuff when you move to thailand as long as it is used

we used a 60 ft shipping container to ship most of our house stuff to thailand it cost $2000.00 from NC to thailand,pick up at your house and dropped off at your home in thailand

sence shes thai she can bring stuff in duty free

might be worth looking into

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Wow, ubonjoe, you helped me with so much back when my wife and I were working on her fiancé visa and my tourist visas, so happy to see you on here helping folks out! Thanks for the info, perfect for me to get started! When I do move there I am buying you coffee kind sir and meals are always on the house at my inlaws restaurant!

We are in the process of trying to eradicate bribes and corruption in Thailand, it seems that you have not noticed the new rules , rule No. 356 states: no Person shall issue free meals or cups of coffee to any guest at any restaurant.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

One semi minor complication, depending on how you look at. Since your wife has a Green Card, she has to return to the U.S. at least annually to keep it "alive." Under some circumstances that can be every two years if she gets a U.S. "re-entry permit" before departure. If the green card expires, you have to start all over with the Immigrant Visa process if you and her want to return to the U.S.

So, you might consider applying for U.S. citizenship for her, eliminates all that green card travel hassle.

Mac

[jmccarty]

You both have to file US personal income tax returns every year, even if you don't earn any income.

She will need to for 10 years after giving up her green card if you ever want to go back, and you of course have to for life.

Just so you know!

[Ricky HKT]

You are not required to file a tax return, unless you income reaches a certain level. from the IRS website:

Do I have to File a Tax Return?

IRS Tax Tip 2011-02, January 04, 2011

You must file a federal income tax return if your income is above a certain level; which varies depending on your filing status, age and the type of income you receive.

Check the Individuals section of the IRS website at http://www.irs.gov or consult the instructions for Form 1040, 1040A, or 1040EZ for specific details that may help you determine if you need to file a tax return with the IRS this year. You can also use the Interactive Tax Assistant available on the IRS website to determine if you need to file a tax return. The ITA tool is a tax law resource that takes you through a series of questions and provides you with responses to tax law questions.

Q to the OP: making money in USA is much easier... Are you 100% sure you can "make it" here?

[piusmann]

Customs and immigration

Since your wife is thai she is allowed to bring household stuff without paying customs.

BUT make sure on arrival she MUST get her thai passport stamped. Normally just walk through and get scanned - and thats where trouble starts.

Customspeople want to see stamp in PP

Cost me extra flight ubp-bkk-ubp just to get the stamp.....

TIT

[CraigSchuler]

I've tried what you are wanting to do.......Lasted three months and we were back in the States. I found it very difficult living the Thai lifestyle.

Do you speak Thai? Lao?.....Depending on where you live sometimes little things just like trying to order food when your spouse is off at work. The wages were flat stupid....would you mind earning 400 baht a day? if you smoke or drink milk everyday....your pay will barely cover it!

Trust me my friend living there is a whole other world opposed to a vacation. you will be totally dependent on your wife for everything! and after a while she will get tired of always having to mother your every move.......Then the fun starts!

Like having friends? good luck finding any who will actually sit down with you and hold a decent conversation. You are a Farang and a Farang who lives like a Thai gives alot for the locals to gossip about....Bet your in laws won't enjoying losing face by having a Farang son in law who washes dishes at the family food business.

You need to accept that fact that you and your family are in a far better position by living and working in the States and spending holidays in Thailand. Work your ass off like the rest of us and if you plan it right you might be able to spend some latter years hanging out at the moo bahn. Unless of course your health fails or you have children.....That's a whole other discussion!

[nusder05]

Thanks for everyone's responses and points of view, all useful information for me to use as I work on this! Looks like I have a lot to think about!

[maximillian]

I've tried what you are wanting to do.......Lasted three months and we were back in the States. I found it very difficult living the Thai lifestyle.

Do you speak Thai? Lao?.....Depending on where you live sometimes little things just like trying to order food when your spouse is off at work. The wages were flat stupid....would you mind earning 400 baht a day? if you smoke or drink milk everyday....your pay will barely cover it!

Trust me my friend living there is a whole other world opposed to a vacation. you will be totally dependent on your wife for everything! and after a while she will get tired of always having to mother your every move.......Then the fun starts!

Like having friends? good luck finding any who will actually sit down with you and hold a decent conversation. You are a Farang and a Farang who lives like a Thai gives alot for the locals to gossip about....Bet your in laws won't enjoying losing face by having a Farang son in law who washes dishes at the family food business.

You need to accept that fact that you and your family are in a far better position by living and working in the States and spending holidays in Thailand. Work your ass off like the rest of us and if you plan it right you might be able to spend some latter years hanging out at the moo bahn. Unless of course your health fails or you have children.....That's a whole other discussion!

OP please take it serious what CraigSchuler is saying. It's a real good advice.

If you come here, first thing you MUST do is to learn to speak, read & write Thai until you are very fluent in all of it.

A friend of mine came to Thailand to live here and to do business in Chiangmai. He was about 55 when he started to study Thai. He was fluent after one year.

But I must say that he is extremely ambitious and has a great talent learning languages and imitading other peoples voices and dialects.

Best if you have a steady income from the States or a capital of some hundredthousand, better some million Baht over which YOU should keep strict control.

Please don't be contented with an unqualified job as a restaurant keeper. Try to do something on a bigger scale; i.e. import/export or such.

Wish you good luck whatever you do.

[CharlesHH]

You do have lots to think about and also research. Like these items...

-getting a work permit and having your wife's company comply with the rules that allow hiring a foreigner, doing the paper to justify you, and then you leaving to other nation to get changed visa, too.

-dealing with the green card. If your wife's passport shows her out of usa continuously for more than a year, she will need to ask permission, parole, to use that card to gain re-entry AND is she is out more than two continuous years, it is very likely she will be refused parole, not allowed to enter usa on that card. Over two years or so, NO use to have the green card because you will not be allowed to enter on it. This info is from Homeland Security usa four days ago in BKK office.

-If she goes back to usa for a few months or less, she could also lose the green card re entry permission. The green card is for allowing foreigners to LIVE IN USA and also to work, but the former reason is most important, so if there is evidence to conclude that she is just visiting the usa for short times (whatever HS decides) they will just refuse to allow the green card to get her in and out at will.

-The BKK Homeland Security official stared at my daughter's green card with four years still good on it and admitted that with three years absence from usa, the card is worthless for re entry regardless of the expiration date on it.

-If you get into this same situation, just surrender the green card which will open her to allow her to apply for a ten year usa visa based on your citizenship, etc. If you keep the card, then no visitor visa.

Others show that this is not nearly all the matters you must get firmly understood. It is just not at all easy and then there is the problem of trying to make money from a restaurant.

[roath]

Which passport? The foreign or thai passport?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Rimbuman]

Customs and immigration

Since your wife is thai she is allowed to bring household stuff without paying customs.

BUT make sure on arrival she MUST get her thai passport stamped. Normally just walk through and get scanned - and thats where trouble starts.

Customspeople want to see stamp in PP

Cost me extra flight ubp-bkk-ubp just to get the stamp.....

TIT

Great you post this warning.

We did the same thing, but fortunately we didn't have this stamp hassle although quite some paper work was involved, but worth the trouble.

We even brought over our cats

[Rimbuman]

I've tried what you are wanting to do.......Lasted three months and we were back in the States. I found it very difficult living the Thai lifestyle.

Do you speak Thai? Lao?.....Depending on where you live sometimes little things just like trying to order food when your spouse is off at work. The wages were flat stupid....would you mind earning 400 baht a day? if you smoke or drink milk everyday....your pay will barely cover it!

Trust me my friend living there is a whole other world opposed to a vacation. you will be totally dependent on your wife for everything! and after a while she will get tired of always having to mother your every move.......Then the fun starts!

Like having friends? good luck finding any who will actually sit down with you and hold a decent conversation. You are a Farang and a Farang who lives like a Thai gives alot for the locals to gossip about....Bet your in laws won't enjoying losing face by having a Farang son in law who washes dishes at the family food business.

You need to accept that fact that you and your family are in a far better position by living and working in the States and spending holidays in Thailand. Work your ass off like the rest of us and if you plan it right you might be able to spend some latter years hanging out at the moo bahn. Unless of course your health fails or you have children.....That's a whole other discussion!

OP please take it serious what CraigSchuler is saying. It's a real good advice.

If you come here, first thing you MUST do is to learn to speak, read & write Thai until you are very fluent in all of it.

A friend of mine came to Thailand to live here and to do business in Chiangmai. He was about 55 when he started to study Thai. He was fluent after one year.

But I must say that he is extremely ambitious and has a great talent learning languages and imitading other peoples voices and dialects.

Best if you have a steady income from the States or a capital of some hundredthousand, better some million Baht over which YOU should keep strict control.

Please don't be contented with an unqualified job as a restaurant keeper. Try to do something on a bigger scale; i.e. import/export or such.

Wish you good luck whatever you do.

Some real good info and idea's you give here, but not everybody is the same.

I sold/picked up my stuff and left for Thailand without thinking of any of this and I managed.

[phuketrichard]

If you come here, first thing you MUST do is to learn to speak, read & write Thai until you are very fluent in all of it.

WHY?

i have been here almost 30 years, can speak thai but cant write more than 5 words an the only thai i can read is on a menu and thats really only cause i know the words.

I do agree; first; where will u settle will have a huge affect on your life style. Will you be living with her family? Do you have a nest egg now?

Taking a couple years of work is all well and fine but than what? Does the restaurant earn enough that you can save? Moving back to the states in a few years with no money??

Don't hassles about the green card, she can go back once/year to keep it or get a re entry permit and that allows her up to 2 years out. Not a big deal but for sure you do not want to lose it.

You better off filing your 1040 each year regardless of what you make. it takes like 30 minutes online, an if you file the 2555 your allowed $96,000 ( for 2103) tax free.

Keep under $10,000 us in ALL your foreign accounts and u never have to FUBAR

Just get a single entry NON O visa ( married to a thai) and then once you arrive place the required 400,000 in the bank ( but if u do you need to FUBAR every year) and get your one year extension. Or just hop up to Savanakhet and get a 1 year multiple entry visa/

Whatever GO FOR it, your young an there is nothing to lose>>>>

Edited June 18, 2014 by phuketrichard

[kokesaat]

You're young! My old-man advice: Your wife should get her US citizenship.....don't risk losing your green card and potentially starting all over again.

Second, I know social security is a loooong ways off.....and the rules can change. But, I'd get 40 quarters of contributions toward the program under my belt....both of you. Assuming the rules don't change dramatically, you'll both be happy you did when you get older.

At your age, without a marketable skill (in Thailand!), I'd put off moving here until you've got a pile of savings under your belt.

[ricktak]

just a thought,you know your wife can bring most of the house hold stuff when you move to thailand as long as it is used

we used a 60 ft shipping container to ship most of our house stuff to thailand it cost $2000.00 from NC to thailand,pick up at your house and dropped off at your home in thailand

sence shes thai she can bring stuff in duty free

might be worth looking into

I will be doing the same thing later this year, who did you use for shipping, $2000.00 seems very cheap for a 60ft container. And could you please let me know how it was handled at customs. Thank you.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post has been removed.

[CaptHaddock]

If I were the OP I would not consider relocating permanently to Thailand at such a young age to be trapped in a life of low wages or, very possibly, no wages at all. It's different if you retire here having acquired assets in the first world. If the OP nevertheless pursues the plan he should definitely get US citizenship for his wife so that they both always have the option to return to the US if things change. If she has been married to him for at least three years while holding the green card she can apply immediately. There will be the inconvenience that she will have to file tax returns annually, but it is unlikely that she will ever actually owe tax to the US. The future is uncertain and dual citizenship provides her with a hedge against possibly serious risks in the future.

The smart thing for them both is to work and save in the US, for him to get at least 40 quarters of FICA tax to qualify for SS benefits (not so important for her as his spouse), and make a plan to have enough income in Thailand to live at a first-world standard in the future.

[Oceanbat]

just a thought,you know your wife can bring most of the house hold stuff when you move to thailand as long as it is used

we used a 60 ft shipping container to ship most of our house stuff to thailand it cost $2000.00 from NC to thailand,pick up at your house and dropped off at your home in thailand

sence shes thai she can bring stuff in duty free

might be worth looking into

I will be doing the same thing later this year, who did you use for shipping, $2000.00 seems very cheap for a 60ft container. And could you please let me know how it was handled at customs. Thank you.

Word of warning. Customs nailed me for my golf clubs and bicycle. They said they weren't personal items and i would have to pay duty. So take your clubs and check them in if you can.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Ricky HKT]

.Word of warning. Customs nailed me for my golf clubs and bicycle. They said they weren't personal items and i would have to pay duty. So take your clubs and check them in if you can.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

OMG! And sorry to hear.

We brought a lot of stuff like this (details omitted on purpose), and they didn't charge us anything.

Luck of the draw, I guess.

[rijb]

One semi minor complication, depending on how you look at. Since your wife has a Green Card, she has to return to the U.S. at least annually to keep it "alive." Under some circumstances that can be every two years if she gets a U.S. "re-entry permit" before departure. If the green card expires, you have to start all over with the Immigrant Visa process if you and her want to return to the U.S.

So, you might consider applying for U.S. citizenship for her, eliminates all that green card travel hassle.

Mac

They'll pull her green card at any time they think she's out of the country too much - or if one of the officers is having a bad day.

I second the advice on U.S. citizenship.

[Tomtomtom69]

I've tried what you are wanting to do.......Lasted three months and we were back in the States. I found it very difficult living the Thai lifestyle.

Do you speak Thai? Lao?.....Depending on where you live sometimes little things just like trying to order food when your spouse is off at work. The wages were flat stupid....would you mind earning 400 baht a day? if you smoke or drink milk everyday....your pay will barely cover it!

Trust me my friend living there is a whole other world opposed to a vacation. you will be totally dependent on your wife for everything! and after a while she will get tired of always having to mother your every move.......Then the fun starts!

Like having friends? good luck finding any who will actually sit down with you and hold a decent conversation. You are a Farang and a Farang who lives like a Thai gives alot for the locals to gossip about....Bet your in laws won't enjoying losing face by having a Farang son in law who washes dishes at the family food business.

You need to accept that fact that you and your family are in a far better position by living and working in the States and spending holidays in Thailand. Work your ass off like the rest of us and if you plan it right you might be able to spend some latter years hanging out at the moo bahn. Unless of course your health fails or you have children.....That's a whole other discussion!

OP please take it serious what CraigSchuler is saying. It's a real good advice.

If you come here, first thing you MUST do is to learn to speak, read & write Thai until you are very fluent in all of it.

A friend of mine came to Thailand to live here and to do business in Chiangmai. He was about 55 when he started to study Thai. He was fluent after one year.

But I must say that he is extremely ambitious and has a great talent learning languages and imitading other peoples voices and dialects.

Best if you have a steady income from the States or a capital of some hundredthousand, better some million Baht over which YOU should keep strict control.

Please don't be contented with an unqualified job as a restaurant keeper. Try to do something on a bigger scale; i.e. import/export or such.

Wish you good luck whatever you do.

Very good post.

Just wanted to clear up what you meant by "Like having friends? good luck finding any who will actually sit down with you and hold a decent conversation." Is it that you are implying that Thais are difficult to befriend and even if you do, language barrier or not, the types of discussions you would find yourself holding with Thais are not as sophisticated as with people back home?

Let me add my own 2 cents on that - generally speaking, I also think it's difficult to really become good friends with Thais. It's easy enough when you're a teenager or at university (at the undergraduate level at least), but once you are in your mid-twenties or thirties, Thais tend to focus on work, family and their girlfriends/boyfriends, with only occasional meetings with friends and then usually only to have a meal. I find Thais past a certain age (25?) rarely do things together except eat out at a restaurant or bar, company "fun" trips organized by workplaces to create a sense of bonding amongst employees are an exception. Once married, Thais usually only have time for their families. It seems that double dates or hanging out with others who are in a similar situation to you, including families hanging out with other families, not blood related is not very common here. I don't mean to generalize but I have a great deal of friends in Thailand that I have known since my teens and that is what I have observed - now that many of them have boyfriends/girlfriends and in some cases are married and have children, only a small trickle of the large number of friends that used to hang out with each other are still in regular contact with me or each other. Sure, they might be active on social media but are they really active with each other in real life? Unfortunately not. Even when Thais are meeting each other, often it's in large groups where you don't get to really have a deep conversation with anyone. Everyone is just joking around, gossiping about what they have heard about this person or that person, but not really getting deep into their problems or personal issues or even just questioning things around them, talking about business, travel, political issues etc.

So it seems that for those reasons, in Thailand friends are not necessarily as close as they are back home. You might initially find it more difficult to make friends back home in Finland, Germany, the USA or wherever but once you have your circle of friends, they tend to be friends for life. I find that in Thailand that is not the case. Friends tend to come and go. You make some friends, hang out for like 3-6 months, even 2-3 years and all is well, but all of a sudden things change once you come back from a trip back home, or they change jobs, have kids etc. Sure, it may be like that back home too for some people, but in my experience friends back home, if they were good friends once upon a time they'll probably continue to be good friends over time too.

As a foreigner language difficulties also contribute towards making it more difficult to meet and befriend locals, particularly when it comes to becoming good friends with locals. Unless your Thai is fluent, or their English is fluent, it's this limitation that makes what could be an otherwise very promising friendship difficult as that limits topics of conversation and methods of interaction. However, as I've found with my now fluent Thai (whereas a few years ago my Thai was just so-so and before that non-existant), language skills alone don't necessarily explain how easy is it to make good friends with locals, rather than just people who are friendly and who comment that you are "handsome" and you respond by saying that person is "beautiful...suay maak maak" etc. Rather, it's more a case of cultural differences, including the "group dynamic" that is found in more group or relationship oriented cultures like Thailand.

My experiences/observations are also more specific to urban settings. As I only really known urban Thailand very well, particularly Bangkok, I recognize that the opinions I have expressed may not necessarily equate entirely to more rural parts of the country, where neighbors and friends are more likely to interact with each other because of their smaller, more close knit communities.

[Tomtomtom69]

To the OP, my advice is this:

There are many people in your situation, that have made a successful move to Thailand so don't let people who tell you not to do it drag you down. I know a Thai woman with an Aussie boyfriend who moved back to Thailand from Australia together. They were both in their late twenties when they made the move and now are in their early thirties; so they've been here for a couple of years, I think 2-3 years now and are doing quite well.

They opened a business together in the woman's hometown of Lampang. The business is an English tutoring service. The guy (who I don't know personally by the way, but he is friends with Thai friends of mine both in Australia and in Thailand who I have known for years) is the head teacher, has a work permit and is thus completely legal and making a decent amount of money I guess. Neither party were working any fancy jobs in Australia nor had a big career change or anything like that, so the move back to Thailand, prompted by the woman wanting to be closer to her parents wasn't too difficult for either of them. Given that their business has a good chance to grow, it's feasible that they may be able to secure a healthy income over time.

The same could be said for a successful restaurant business, which is more risky though. However, you could always try something else, like import/export as someone has suggested.

I'm afraid though that as a non-multicultural country, Thailand simply does not offer the same types of opportunities that an immigrant rich country like America offers, not withstanding the generally much lower wages. For starters, if you're looking for a job in Thailand, working for an everyday company, finding an opportunity will be difficult, unless you offer a special skill and/or have lots of experience. English teaching is the main avenue for working for foreigners in Thailand, followed by teaching of other less in demand languages (although the opportunities there are far more limited) and then working as a foreigner in anything from marketing to sales to IT, but those jobs are difficult to find and generally require knowing someone who can introduce you to the right people. As another poster has stated, knowing the language (including reading and writing) will help open a lot of doors, but even that may not be enough because foreigners cost a lot more to hire than Thais, given the work permit, visa, minimum wages to gain an extension of stay, comprehensive health insurance etc. and then you will still need to be able to do something that Thais can't, although being fluent in English and better in Thai than Thais are at English is already enough for some of these opportunities.

Since you don't have a degree, that might make it more difficult for you to obtain a work permit. However, that isn't a big problem if you consider that it is relatively straightforward to study an online degree, from a recognized university back home, while you are in Thailand. Once you graduate from that, you'll also become eligible for a work permit without needing to go down the unofficial route that some lawyers help you to do (i.e. make a facilitation payment to get the work permit anyway) or finding labour offices where they are less strict. Of course you could also study on-campus in Thailand and that would also give you an ED visa so you wouldn't have to worry about visas for a few years, but being married a non-O seems to be the best option still and thus studying should really be done to further your career options rather than be used simply as a means to get a long term visa.

Lastly, as some others have said, you might need to seriously consider that it might take you a while to make any decent money and thus you should have enough in savings or otherwise income from your proposed business to allow you to live here with a reasonable quality of life for a while. If you would like to head back to the States, the wife having a US passport would also be a lot more convenient than loosing her green card due to extended absence from the USA. You might want to consider that aspect as well. However, if you are sure your wife doesn't want to stay in the USA anymore and you don't mind living in Thailand and possibly earning a relatively low wage for a while, then by all means go for it. If it doesn't work out you could always head back home in a few years.

[arunsakda]

just a thought,you know your wife can bring most of the house hold stuff when you move to thailand as long as it is used

we used a 60 ft shipping container to ship most of our house stuff to thailand it cost $2000.00 from NC to thailand,pick up at your house and dropped off at your home in thailand

sence shes thai she can bring stuff in duty free

might be worth looking into

I will be doing the same thing later this year, who did you use for shipping, $2000.00 seems very cheap for a 60ft container. And could you please let me know how it was handled at customs. Thank you.

That is a great shipping quote. Shipping one car from Long Beach to Guam, in a shared container is $2300 and does not include insurance, a few hundred more. Certainly a ripoff based on destination.

I saw a piece a while back on NYT online about shipping from Asia to N. America, coming in full go back empty, so many empty containers piling up in depots as the are uneconomical to ship empty

Edited June 22, 2014 by arunsakda