Bangkok Chatuchak vendors want help over extortion, costs

[webfact]

Chatuchak vendors want help over extortion, costs
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- About 20 vendors at Chatuchak Weekend Market called yesterday for the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha to help them with many problems at this world famous shopping site.

The vendors say the market is plagued by high administration costs and extortion.

The vendors want the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) back as the manager of the market. The BMA had managed the market for 30 years turning it into a famous attraction until the land-lease contract expired on January 1, 2012.

Chatuchak Weekend Market is located on a plot of land owned by the State Railway of Thailand (SRT), which now runs the place. "But the SRT cost of management is several times higher than that of the BMA," a vendor complained.


-- The Nation 2014-06-17

[Seastallion]

Slowly slowly, and hopefully with ever increasing speed, the citizens are waking up and realising that they have a voice and that they can appeal to the right authorities to stamp out corruption.

[thumper101]

It's great.

This is the first time I have ever seen Thais standing up for themselves.

The junta is being seen as a big brother who are protecting the people.

Before the coup, the people never complained because there was never really anyone to complain to who gave a rats butt.... i.e. the police and the government.

[JeremyBowskill]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

[ChrisY1]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

The JJ Market "mafia" is quite ruthless, as they are elsewhere, with their extortion demands.....non payment would most likely end up with these ars***s hurting people......but collectively, asking the junta to assist, is the best way forward for these people....

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

The problem is getting them all to agree, probably half of the vendors there , are the extortionists

[rabas]

Slowly slowly, and hopefully with ever increasing speed, the citizens are waking up and realising that they have a voice and that they can appeal to the right authorities to stamp out corruption.

Amazing post, it needs repeating. The Thai can now speak freely because their fear has been removed, along with what some wanted to call "democracy".

[Pib]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

Would be nice if it really worked that way, but extremely hard to do since vendors must continue to make a living/earn money (they just can't go setup a new stall anywhere and quickly), probable threats to life and limb for not paying/leaving, and Thais generally don't t take such drastic action because it causes direct conflict which Thais try to avoid. Thais are just too passive for their own good sometimes; then again being too aggressive can be just as bad.

[UbonRatch]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

Would be nice if it really worked that way, but extremely hard to do since vendors must continue to make a living/earn money (they just can't go setup a new stall anywhere and quickly), probable threats to life and limb for not paying/leaving, and Thais generally don't t take such drastic action because it causes direct conflict which Thais try to avoid. Thais are just too passive for their own good sometimes; then again being too aggressive can be just as bad.

"and Thais generally don't t take such drastic action because it causes direct conflict which Thais try to avoid. Thais are just too passive for their own good sometimes; then again being too aggressive can be just as bad."

I think you'd be surprised how agressive Thais actually are when money is at stake. They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive

[JeremyBowskill]

Seems either way is problematic. Wait for the army and maybe wait an eternity or do something yourselves collectively and risk a backlash. Would guess the biggest problem would be to get all the traders to actually agree on any course of action, much easier to bitch to big brother and hope he sorts out the school bully for you.

Big brother can't come to school with you everyday, sooner or later a backlash will most likely come anyhow.

Edited June 17, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[UbonRatch]

Seems either way is problematic. Wait for the army and maybe wait an eternity or do something yourselves collectively and risk a backlash. Would guess the biggest problem would be to get all the traders to actually agree on any course of action, much easier to bitch to big brother and hope he sorts out the school bully for you.

Of course, that depends who is in cahoots with the bully and assumes big brother is not.

[Emptyset]

Slowly slowly, and hopefully with ever increasing speed, the citizens are waking up and realising that they have a voice and that they can appeal to the right authorities to stamp out corruption.

Well I've spoken to grassroots red shirts and I was talking about the lack of democracy and free speech under Thaksin, but they replied: "we felt we were shouting louder than we ever have and we were finally being heard". Of course, I thought I could see how things might have looked like that to them. But I doubted much had really changed. I also thought that even if Thaksin was heeding them and promising to personally grant them justice, should these things really be left to the arbitrary will of one man? And what about those whose voice he ignored or tried to suppress, didn't they count too?

What Jeremy says is true - even though it might not be immediately effective in this case - people need to learn to act and empower themselves, not rely on the benign patronage of whichever puuyai is in charge this week for salvation. This issue doesn't seem to be "corruption" related though btw, it's about high rents charged by a state agency. Of course, I hope the junta helps them out, they should be able to without much trouble, as the SRT is now under them.

[rubl]

What seems missing from the OP is some details on the difference in costs BMA vs SRT running the place. I wouldn't be surprised (but have no data on this myself) if the BMA asked rents were on a very low level, with the SRT rents more adapted to modern times.

The extortion level probably didn't really change moving from BMA to SRT, sorry to say. Mind you again insufficient data available to me.

Anyone here who has a few useful pointers?

[Emptyset]

What seems missing from the OP is some details on the difference in costs BMA vs SRT running the place. I wouldn't be surprised (but have no data on this myself) if the BMA asked rents were on a very low level, with the SRT rents more adapted to modern times.

The extortion level probably didn't really change moving from BMA to SRT, sorry to say. Mind you again insufficient data available to me.

Anyone here who has a few useful pointers?

There have been protests over it before... the SRT raised the rent from 800 per month to over 3000. Or tried to. Wasn't following what happened, but guessing it went through, hence this story. Raising the rent four times seems harsh, would be interesting to find out what other markets charge for comparison. Also there are 15,000 stalls, so 20 people complaining needs to be seen in that context. It doesn't mean most vendors necesssarily accepted the price changes, but can we assume discontent is widespread within the market? Obviously if the majority were willing to pay the new price, there wasn't a great incentive for the SRT to backtrack, especially considering the debt they're in.

[sawim]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

They'd be all be replaced the following day.

[Local Drunk]

Get off the side walks (pavements) you graving sucking pigs!

[MMarlow]

I think you'd be surprised how agressive Thais actually are when money is at stake. They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive

"They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive"

I'd be very surprised if you could back up that allegation.

[realenglish1]

This is very good Thai standing up for what they believe is right. It looks like the coup leaders have indead gathered the confidence of Thais and foreigners as well .Keep up the good work it looks good on you Well done and please help the vendors in Chatuchak

[Chao Lao Beach]

The vendors say the market is plagued by high administration costs and extortion.

I am sure that the TAT can spin it somehow.

[VocalNeal]

Chatuchak is not a market per se. It doesn't come and go. It is more of an outdoor mall. 3000 baht a month is peanuts compared to what shop owners pay in shopping malls. 800 baht if on the sidewalk and you set up and take down everyday. If the SRT is providing electric power, a roof etc. well..

[belg]

raise the whole plot and put some nice skyscrapers & shopping malls, just what the country needs & the people wants

lol

[givenall]

Slowly slowly, and hopefully with ever increasing speed, the citizens are waking up and realising that they have a voice and that they can appeal to the right authorities to stamp out corruption.

Sure, but corruption is OK if work for them and bad when it doesn't

Sent from my C1904 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bakseeda]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

Unluckily Jeemy, you included the words "get together" in your solution.. This is Thailand .How long have you been here..!

[JeremyBowskill]

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

Unluckily Jeemy, you included the words "get together" in your solution.. This is Thailand .How long have you been here..!

11 years, well if they can't even get together then to be fair they don't get much sympathy from me.

[UbonRatch]

I think you'd be surprised how agressive Thais actually are when money is at stake. They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive

"They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive"

I'd be very surprised if you could back up that allegation.

I'd be very surprised if you understand my allegation in its TRUE sense, judging by your normal reaction to posts.

When seen, why need to back it up? Are you suggesting I NEED to back it up in court status? Daily living here exposes such truth, and if you are neither aware of it, or nor have you experienced such, then you obviously have not lived here for the long term. Otherwise, you would accept such a truth, and not describe it as an accusation.

[teddysbuttons]

Pib, on 17 Jun 2014 - 08:15, said:

JeremyBowskill, on 17 Jun 2014 - 07:38, said:

No need to appeal to anyone, just get together and all refuse to pay 1 week. An empty market will bring change quicker than the military can most likely.

Would be nice if it really worked that way, but extremely hard to do since vendors must continue to make a living/earn money (they just can't go setup a new stall anywhere and quickly), probable threats to life and limb for not paying/leaving, and Thais generally don't t take such drastic action because it causes direct conflict which Thais try to avoid. Thais are just too passive for their own good sometimes; then again being too aggressive can be just as bad.

"and Thais generally don't t take such drastic action because it causes direct conflict which Thais try to avoid. Thais are just too passive for their own good sometimes; then again being too aggressive can be just as bad."

I think you'd be surprised how agressive Thais actually are when money is at stake. They'll happily knee-cap and maim for 500 Baht owed! If money - not passive but meanly agressive

Please don't generalise!

[bkkgooner]

Chatuchak is not a market per se. It doesn't come and go. It is more of an outdoor mall. 3000 baht a month is peanuts compared to what shop owners pay in shopping malls. 800 baht if on the sidewalk and you set up and take down everyday. If the SRT is providing electric power, a roof etc. well..

That's not how it is working though.

The people paying 3,000 baht a month have been there for years and are sub-leasing the stalls at obscene prices with some sort of deposit attached as well as a one time fee at the start. On top of that you have the protection rackets which get more money from the stalls and probably give a percentage of their fee to the real owners of each stall.

Edited June 17, 2014 by bkkgooner

[Lakegeneve]

What seems missing from the OP is some details on the difference in costs BMA vs SRT running the place. I wouldn't be surprised (but have no data on this myself) if the BMA asked rents were on a very low level, with the SRT rents more adapted to modern times.

The extortion level probably didn't really change moving from BMA to SRT, sorry to say. Mind you again insufficient data available to me.

Anyone here who has a few useful pointers?

There have been protests over it before... the SRT raised the rent from 800 per month to over 3000. Or tried to. Wasn't following what happened, but guessing it went through, hence this story. Raising the rent four times seems harsh, would be interesting to find out what other markets charge for comparison. Also there are 15,000 stalls, so 20 people complaining needs to be seen in that context. It doesn't mean most vendors necesssarily accepted the price changes, but can we assume discontent is widespread within the market? Obviously if the majority were willing to pay the new price, there wasn't a great incentive for the SRT to backtrack, especially considering the debt they're in.

Both of you are on the money here (pun intended).

Chatujak (68 rai) is part of a huge swath of SRT land in this whole area and they were getting screwed on the lease with the BMA for decades. The BMA was paying peanuts and reaping billions (just as Central was with the Latphrao lease before it was renegotiated 6 years ago).

The turnover at Chatujak was estimated in 2010 to be 10.5 billion baht a year. Traders do very well there so yes it also does attract mafia types (tending to be in green uniforms - more on that later). What happens is people sub-lease their leases. Even when the lot lease was 800 baht a month, the lots were generally being subleased for 5000-8000 baht a month and everyone was still making a load of money.

Some history.

The origins of Chatujak (previous Sanum Luang market) & the BMA lease

The precursor of the weekend market at Chatujak was the previous market in Sanam Luang which began in 1948. In 1978, the then PM wanted to free up Sanum Luang to make it a place for celebrations (BKKs 200 year anniversary) and turn it into a permanent park.

Thus, in 1982 the market moved to the present site at Chatujak where the SRT allowed the BMA to use the land for free. In 1987 the BMA signed a 30 lease (with increase every 5 years) with the SRT at the rate of 15 baht per sq/m for the first 5 years, 1.6m baht a year. In the last 5 years of the lease the rental was 222 baht per sq/m (24m baht/yr).

The BMA was paying the SRT only 24 million baht a year yet deriving an income of over 1 billion baht a year from Chatujak!!! People wonder why the SRT has so much debt when vested powers have been paying next to nothing for decades to use their land.

Contract renewal negotiations

As the contract stipulated that the SRT had to give the BMA 5 years notice if they didn't want to extend the lease, in 2006, the SRT commissioned a consultant to study the market. The consultant found that the SRT could generate around 40 billion baht in revenue for the next 20 years if the SRT ran the market. Comparable market rental rates were estimated to be 6 times more than what the BMA was paying. The SRT duly informed the BMA that they would not be extending the lease.

The lease was due to expire at the end of 2011, the SRT again stated that they were taking back the market. The BMA offered to pay 79m baht a year instead of the current 24m baht. The SRT replied that they would not accept less than 420m baht a year with 15% increase every 5 years. The SRT gave the BMA a deadline of 31 Oct 2011 to comply, they didn't. Thus, the BMA lease expired on 31 Dec 2011 and the SRT officially took over running the market from 1 Jan 2012.

The SRT immediately raised rents to 3500 per lot. Many are said to be subleased for between 8000-15000 baht depending on location. The revenue that the SRT is making from the market will help to fund some of its annual pension liabilities (2.3 billion) and retire some debt (87 billion) plus go towards future redevelopment of the site.

The future - Chatujak will be demolished and rebuilt underground

As part of the SRT taking over the market - and as a wider part of the huge Bang Sue Railyards redevelopment (and merging 3 parks into 1 huge park), the SRT is going to redevelop Chatujak market. It will in time be demolished and rebuilt underground along with a few multi-storey buildings - similar to the JJ market one on the Kampaeng Phet 2 side.

This will most likely occur in around 5 years time once the new Bang Sue Intercity Terminal has been completed, the 3 parks merged and Mo Chit 2 bus terminal has been moved and the new office park built. The whole precinct will then be linked by a monorail loop. Expect all of this to be completed in around 10+ years time.

The mafia elements

Those of you naively trying to engage in some political point scoring are completely missing the point. I'm not going to go into too much detail but suffice to say that the main mafia elements that have been based at the market over the years are connected with those that wear green uniforms. One just needs to see the proximity of two important institutions located very nearby.

Perhaps it is best just to quote this article;

Dirty business at Chatuchak market, The Nation, Jan 2012

As the management of the Chatuchak weekend market moves from Bangkok City Hall to the State Railway of Thailand, organised criminal gangs are busy extorting money from vendors - who must pay if they want to continue doing business there. Every square inch of Chatuchak weekend market and its surrounding footpaths is a gold mine as far as these extortionists, this Thai mafia, are concerned.

There are three criminal gangs operating there, two of them led by men in green uniforms. They have been running the market on the dark and behind the backs of city officials for decades. They demand under-the-table rental fees - protection money - from almost every trader in the market. Not even the hawkers working the sidewalk outside the market, or the motorcycle-taxis that pick up passengers outside the market, escape these predators.

This underground racket is said to generate more revenue for the mafia gangs than the 420 million baht in official rent the State Railway of Thailand earlier demanded from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration in exchange for a renewal of the right to manage the market when the lease contract expired on Jan 1. It was reported that even before the expiry of the lease contract, these criminals had already approached many traders in the market demanding that each of them pay under-the-table rent of between 10,000 and 30,000 baht, depending on where their stalls are located, if they want to stay in business there.

When asked about these racketeers on Wednesday, Deputy Transport Minister Chat Kuldilok ironically gave the assurance that the problem could be dealt with easily, because there were policemen in the market to maintain peace and order. Did the minister’s assurance sound familiar? I believe many honest vendors would find it hardly convincing. Remember the Democrat Party’s promise to regulate motorcycle taxi operations and to get rid of the gangs which have been extracting protection fees from the drivers by forcing them to buy their sleeveless vests? Just go and ask any motorcycle taxi-driver at the entrance of a soi whether he is still paying for protection. Or the promise by a new metropolitan police chief that all entertainment nightspots will have to close by 2am. Just take a stroll along Silom Road, or through Patpong, and you will find out the truth.

As a former high-ranking police officer, Deputy Transport Minister Chat surely knows even better than most of us that to curb this criminal underground -- which is run by men in uniform, either green or brown -- is easier said than done. Thanks to the State Railway of Thailand for its generosity in deciding to waive rental payments for the existing vendors for two months. But in the end, the vendors will have to accept the harsh facts of life – that they have little choice and will have to pay under-the-table if they want to stay in business.

Every administration tolerates or implicitly condones these mafia types to varying degrees. The real test of anyone who power that wants to genuinely purge the country of corrupt and mafia elements is if they target their own in an impartial and transparent manner without fear of favour. Only then will anti-corruption policies be truly effective.

[kinmaew]

Can you imagine the board members of the SRT responsible for overlooking this piece of land and many others. I wonder how many homes in North London they have? Probably too many better buy a few in the south, west and east end. Thais love London. Who doesnt.

[bigbamboo]

Slowly slowly, and hopefully with ever increasing speed, the citizens are waking up and realising that they have a voice and that they can appeal to the right authorities to stamp out corruption.

Amazing post, it needs repeating. The Thai can now speak freely because their fear has been removed, along with what some wanted to call "democracy".

The times they are a-changing.