Rebreathers

[bazmlb]

I have just done a trip back to Melbourne and all my old diving buddies are now running rebreathers due to the price of tri mix, helium is so expensive, my question is are there any divers using them in Thailand, what brand are they using and why?

[PiPiFFS]

We get a few rebreather guys diving with us. There is a guy on Samui that makes his own. Pelagian is the name. Evidently a very good rebreather. my german friend bought one, adapted it to his specs and is very happy. I nearly went down the rebreather route myself. On paper it is the perfect way to dive as it gives you the perfect mix of gas for the depth you are at. The trouble is that lots of highly experienced rebreather guys die using them. I could maybe understand if it was inexperienced divers that died using them but when highly experienced guys die then that tells me it isn't for me.

Yes Helium trimix is very expensive now but I would rather pay more and dive a little less than not come back from a dive.

The thing that gets me is when you look out into space over 90% of what you see is either hydrogen or helium yet we seem to have very little of it here

I'm now looking to stay a little shallower yet challenge myself as well by going down the cave diving route. Some very nice freshwater diving to be had on the mainland.

[bazmlb]

You can just as easily not come back from a dive on trimix, if you do not dive the plan then you can get in all sorts of trouble, with a rebreather and diving the perfect mix at least you can bail and not be in as many deco problems as trimix.

The technology has advanced a lot, I am not saying its safer than anything, but if you prepare, plan and execute to plan then you will be ok, here is an interesting article I cam across looking into this http://www.dhmjournal.com/files/Fock-Rebreather_deaths.pdf

I am looking at a full manual Kiss unit due to service, hooking it up to a shearwater computer with a backup seems to be the way to go, with proper bailout and planing seems it is a safe way to dive deep.

[bazmlb]

Some more good guts http://divermag.com/rise-of-the-recreational-rebreather/

[bazmlb]

I have watched my friends very closely using them, they are very conscious about procedures, but going to 80m you should be, the more I look the more I want to change over.

[PhuketdashScuba]

PADI has been pushing them very, very hard for a while in conjunction with Divesupply.

I don't use them or offer training/diving with them, the main reason for that being that for technical diving in Thailand, with 1-2 exceptions, the divesites are not very suitable. Traditional, recreational Open Circuit offers much better value for money here.

If you'd like to buy one though, let me know

Edited June 18, 2014 by PhuketdashScuba

[catweazle]

Yupp, back in the 1999 I did the rebreather diver course in Kata. At that time I had about 2.600 dives under my belt and was a PADI master instructor, thus a lot of experience scuba diving with compressed air... To cut a long story short - I hated the rebrather dives!!! It was very strange to not being able to control buoyancy by breathing, and no breathing resistance (unlike a ragulator) made the whole thing feel very awkward. After four dives, I still hated it and looking at the rebreather equipment (like something my grandpa could have made in his garage), the hundreds of possibilities for disaster the handling and equipment provides, along with the eerie feeling under water made me never look at rebreathers ever again.

I not hate, but very much dislike them. Rebreather diving makes sense only if you would be allowed to dive on your own or as a rebreather team of two in an area where you have a lot of sharks and other big fish that otherwise might be scared away by the bubble sound. Photographs and videos without bubbles an experienced diver can also take with air. Thailand has very little big fish action and almost no sharks are left. Dive sites and regulations on daytrippers and livaboards along with their schedules leave no time for very deep or very long dives - in short: Rebreather diving is overhyped and makes sense only for highly professional film makers (i.e. NatGeo, etc.) and offshore pros. Don't buy a rebreather and have fun air or Nitrox diving! Keep breathing!

Mentioned should be that I am not active in the dive industry anymore, but still enjoy fun diving. I have now approx. 3.500 dives done and still love air and Nitrox. Be aware of posts here regarding your inquiry made by people still in the industry since they might have intentions to either sell you something you don't need or talk you into one of their courses. Cui bono?

Edited June 18, 2014 by catweazle

[sometimewoodworker]

I'm ambivalent about them. I've used the dolphin most and it was very difficult to get a good prep. Unlike catweazle I don't hate them just the uncertain prep and having to abandon planed dives after a couple of hours trying to get it setup.

The diving I did like.

[movsrus]

I was on a dive boat in Florida a couple years ago and two of the divers had rebreathers. With all the extra tools and gear they took along to keep the units working it ended up taking most of the storage space under the seats while the rest of us had to store gear elsewhere. They even had a wheelbarrow they brought with them to lug all the gear from their van to the boat. Open circuit scuba gear is relatively simple and generally fool proof. Rebreathers seem a lot more complex and, as noted above, many good, experienced divers have died due to their own negligence or an equipment problem.

There has been a lot of debate in the scuba press in the US about rebreathers and whether they are the wave of the future for recreational divers. Cost alone will exclude many divers who are casual about the sport and the risk factor seems to be too high for the general population of divers to make the switch.

At least that is how I see it.

[catweazle]

I was on a dive boat in Florida a couple years ago and two of the divers had rebreathers. With all the extra tools and gear they took along to keep the units working it ended up taking most of the storage space under the seats while the rest of us had to store gear elsewhere. They even had a wheelbarrow they brought with them to lug all the gear from their van to the boat. Open circuit scuba gear is relatively simple and generally fool proof. Rebreathers seem a lot more complex and, as noted above, many good, experienced divers have died due to their own negligence or an equipment problem.

There has been a lot of debate in the scuba press in the US about rebreathers and whether they are the wave of the future for recreational divers. Cost alone will exclude many divers who are casual about the sport and the risk factor seems to be too high for the general population of divers to make the switch.

At least that is how I see it.

Movsrus rounds it all out perfectly! Already back in '97 just before I left Phuket's dive industry for good (talking about perfect timing!), everyone thought rebreathers gonna have similar impact to the dive industry like the moon landing had on the whole world... Today it's 2014, some 18 years later - and what has changed? You see many rebreather divers on boats? I don't. You hear of liveaboard operators changing their system to 100% rebreather diving? I don't. Fact is, that the wheel can't be reinvented. Scuba regulators of today - apart from minor changes to the piston, design, etc. - still function as the ones back in '91 when I started diving and back then those were very much identical to the first mass-produced regs. Why? Because this invention already was close to perfection as it was - no need to reinvent the wheel. No need to put yourself and others into danger to see some fish and coral. Only a system, that works like fish gills for humans (some prank websites are out there looking like the real thing), could replace SCUBA. The only thing I find could and should change are the tanks - it should by now already be possible to mass produce smaller and much more lightweight tanks that hold the same amount of air as an aluminum 12l one. But apart from this, I think not much will change in the scuba industry in the coming ten years. Except perhaps that the oceans by then are dead due to our greed and ignorance...

Edited June 18, 2014 by catweazle

[h90]

We get a few rebreather guys diving with us. There is a guy on Samui that makes his own. Pelagian is the name. Evidently a very good rebreather. my german friend bought one, adapted it to his specs and is very happy. I nearly went down the rebreather route myself. On paper it is the perfect way to dive as it gives you the perfect mix of gas for the depth you are at. The trouble is that lots of highly experienced rebreather guys die using them. I could maybe understand if it was inexperienced divers that died using them but when highly experienced guys die then that tells me it isn't for me.

Yes Helium trimix is very expensive now but I would rather pay more and dive a little less than not come back from a dive.

The thing that gets me is when you look out into space over 90% of what you see is either hydrogen or helium yet we seem to have very little of it here

I'm now looking to stay a little shallower yet challenge myself as well by going down the cave diving route. Some very nice freshwater diving to be had on the mainland.

Well hydrogen should be cheap....and should be good to replace helium.....Just for some reason it is a bit unpopular.... These cowards don't want to mix it with oxygen

[bazmlb]

We get a few rebreather guys diving with us. There is a guy on Samui that makes his own. Pelagian is the name. Evidently a very good rebreather. my german friend bought one, adapted it to his specs and is very happy. I nearly went down the rebreather route myself. On paper it is the perfect way to dive as it gives you the perfect mix of gas for the depth you are at. The trouble is that lots of highly experienced rebreather guys die using them. I could maybe understand if it was inexperienced divers that died using them but when highly experienced guys die then that tells me it isn't for me.

Yes Helium trimix is very expensive now but I would rather pay more and dive a little less than not come back from a dive.

The thing that gets me is when you look out into space over 90% of what you see is either hydrogen or helium yet we seem to have very little of it here

I'm now looking to stay a little shallower yet challenge myself as well by going down the cave diving route. Some very nice freshwater diving to be had on the mainland.

Well hydrogen should be cheap....and should be good to replace helium.....Just for some reason it is a bit unpopular.... These cowards don't want to mix it with oxygen

And just how did that work out for the Hindenburg?

[Basil B]

We get a few rebreather guys diving with us. There is a guy on Samui that makes his own. Pelagian is the name. Evidently a very good rebreather. my german friend bought one, adapted it to his specs and is very happy. I nearly went down the rebreather route myself. On paper it is the perfect way to dive as it gives you the perfect mix of gas for the depth you are at. The trouble is that lots of highly experienced rebreather guys die using them. I could maybe understand if it was inexperienced divers that died using them but when highly experienced guys die then that tells me it isn't for me.

Yes Helium trimix is very expensive now but I would rather pay more and dive a little less than not come back from a dive.

The thing that gets me is when you look out into space over 90% of what you see is either hydrogen or helium yet we seem to have very little of it here

I'm now looking to stay a little shallower yet challenge myself as well by going down the cave diving route. Some very nice freshwater diving to be had on the mainland.

Well hydrogen should be cheap....and should be good to replace helium.....Just for some reason it is a bit unpopular.... These cowards don't want to mix it with oxygen

And just how did that work out for the Hindenburg?

The Hindenburg was filled with virtually pure hydrogen, so it only burned as the hydrogen meet with air, had it been mixed with oxygen it would have exploded and probably taken New Jersey with it.

You only need the slightest spark caused by friction or static to cause an Oxygen & Hydrogen mix to explode, if you are breathing it you will literally explode too.

[h90]

We get a few rebreather guys diving with us. There is a guy on Samui that makes his own. Pelagian is the name. Evidently a very good rebreather. my german friend bought one, adapted it to his specs and is very happy. I nearly went down the rebreather route myself. On paper it is the perfect way to dive as it gives you the perfect mix of gas for the depth you are at. The trouble is that lots of highly experienced rebreather guys die using them. I could maybe understand if it was inexperienced divers that died using them but when highly experienced guys die then that tells me it isn't for me.

Yes Helium trimix is very expensive now but I would rather pay more and dive a little less than not come back from a dive.

The thing that gets me is when you look out into space over 90% of what you see is either hydrogen or helium yet we seem to have very little of it here

I'm now looking to stay a little shallower yet challenge myself as well by going down the cave diving route. Some very nice freshwater diving to be had on the mainland.

Well hydrogen should be cheap....and should be good to replace helium.....Just for some reason it is a bit unpopular.... These cowards don't want to mix it with oxygen

And just how did that work out for the Hindenburg?

The Hindenburg was filled with virtually pure hydrogen, so it only burned as the hydrogen meet with air, had it been mixed with oxygen it would have exploded and probably taken New Jersey with it.

You only need the slightest spark caused by friction or static to cause an Oxygen & Hydrogen mix to explode, if you are breathing it you will literally explode too.

But it was done and it works well for scuba, beside the high risk. But it is just an interesting historical information.

[buddy]

Some good animations here from AP Diving explaining rebreathers.

http://www.apdiving.com/en/rebreathers/new-to-ccr/

[Tao Diver]

I spoke to a few guys last week who had just tried out the new Hollis rebreather and they were raving about it. It is the first sort of plug and play recreational rebreather. You evidently just plug the cartridge into the unit and if you get a green light you are good to go. Not overly expensive either at around the $4500 a pop. A link here

http://www.hollis.com/rebreathers/

They reckon it is going to revolutionise diving and I can see it doing so if it does all it claims