I Like Thai Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 -snip- The Thai niece is currently learning Chinese … Thailand’s largest and growing potential trading partner. . And, the Chinese conduct world trade in English. How else can they do trade with dozens of countries unless there is a common language? No child in China can graduate from secondary school and enter uni without mastering English. Can Thais then speak Chinese and Chinese speak Thai? English is the language of world trade. Much of the world's knowledge is available in English on the internet. Anyone who doesn't know English, and who wants to come off of the farms and out of the mines will need English. The Chinese can't do international biz in Chinese and they know it. If you go to China you'll do biz in English just like the Germans and Italians and Spanish and all others do. The vast majority of people from mainland Europe don't speak English, yet they are not stuck on farms or in mines. And yet ironically, the vast majority of folks from mainland Europe or anywhere in the world do speak English to each other on this forum. Why is that? I don't see anyone positing an arrogant 'English is the superior language' stance. What has been said in reference to learning English giving one an advantage in Business and Academia (and science also for that matter) is true. It's just the way it is, to deny it is laughable, and if you have kids it's also denying them opportunity. This is an English language forum, so if they couldn't speak English, then they wouldn't be members to begin with. But as a proportion to the populations of mainland Europe versus English speaking countries, I would say that the numbers are very small from mainland Europe in comparison to English speaking countries. I also never said that being able to speak English doesn't give an advantage in Business and Academia, that is if they are in a position where they are involved in International business. If their role within a business requires them to interact with people at International level it is advantageous, but in these circumstances I would suggest that the individual person decides for themselves that they need to learn the language and set about doing so, so that they will be in a position to fulfill the role. The numbers of people in these roles within a company or as a percentage of the general population is minuscule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You might find this of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You might find this of interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population 27.16% of Thai's speak English according to this report. I would suggest that the figures are very subjective, especially around the level of English that people have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issangeorge Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Europeans may not speak English, but I am always surprised when I meet a person from; The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, or Norway that does not speak English. Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBonnie Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. Edited June 19, 2014 by cheyenne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 -snip- The Thai niece is currently learning Chinese … Thailand’s largest and growing potential trading partner. . And, the Chinese conduct world trade in English. How else can they do trade with dozens of countries unless there is a common language? No child in China can graduate from secondary school and enter uni without mastering English. Can Thais then speak Chinese and Chinese speak Thai? English is the language of world trade. Much of the world's knowledge is available in English on the internet. Anyone who doesn't know English, and who wants to come off of the farms and out of the mines will need English. The Chinese can't do international biz in Chinese and they know it. If you go to China you'll do biz in English just like the Germans and Italians and Spanish and all others do. The vast majority of people from mainland Europe don't speak English, yet they are not stuck on farms or in mines. And yet ironically, the vast majority of folks from mainland Europe or anywhere in the world do speak English to each other on this forum. Why is that? I don't see anyone positing an arrogant 'English is the superior language' stance. What has been said in reference to learning English giving one an advantage in Business and Academia (and science also for that matter) is true. It's just the way it is, to deny it is laughable, and if you have kids it's also denying them opportunity. +1. You said it better than I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyaslimit Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 As published in Forbes, the following is a list of the top 6 Asian Universities: National University of Singapore - Singapore University of Hong Kong - Hong Kong Seoul National University - South Korea Peking University - China University of Tokyo - Japan Tsinghua University - China You will notice that ASEAN member countries are noticeably absent from the list with the exception of Singapore. If Thailand is working toward a prosperous and productive future, this list should act as a wake-up call that the country most noted for its welcoming "vertical smiles" needs to work on education reform ASAP before history passes it by. Vertical Smiles? I love them.Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nidieunimaitre Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 QUOTE from I Like Thai: I would suggest that most Spaniards never have a need to speak with Greeks or other people that use a different language. I would suggest that you yourself are in a job or grew up in an area where you were exposed to English language users, maybe a tourist area even. How many of your friends or relatives that are not from a tourist area, or never worked in a company where English is required can actually speak English ? UNQUOTE Ryanair flies between many southern European countries, you have no idea about todays tourism! All my family and friends live in a non - tourist area, they all speak English - English and French are compulsory in secondary schools, movies have English subtitles, people travel, at uni some courses are in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If Thailand is working toward a prosperous and productive future, this list should act as a wake-up call that the country most noted for its welcoming "vertical smiles" needs to work on education reform ASAP before history passes it by. Vertical Smiles? I love them. I must admit, that comment, at the time, made me smile ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Utley, I can partly understand what you are on about but, I would offer up an alternative are the Thai people interested in actually learning English? My thoughts are generally NO. Indeed, why should they? Why would they wish or want to be on a Forbes list? There is a huge disconnect between your OP and your first post. So, what is your take-out message. Thailand needs better Universities so one can make it onto a list somewhere? or That retired folk in Thailand can do something to pass their idle time by conversing with the natives in English? Not that the Thais dont have an eye for the future. The Thai niece is currently learning Chinese Thailands largest and growing potential trading partner. . My take-out message is this. "Life is tough. It is even tougher if you are stupid!" If Thais want an easier life, one of the best ways to achieve it is through education. The Kingdom has a free, ready and untapped resource at its fingertips that it is not using; namely English speaking retirees. Thais don't want to learn and speak English. Why do English speaking people believe than being able to speak English is the be all and end all to everything But you know as well that ANY thai who can speak read and write good english has alot more opportunities available to make way more than an average salary. Tourism, business, education etc......if that Thai person would as well study about the does and donts of, i know it is a generalisation, of western people, the oyster becomes even bigger. This can even be applicable for other languages. I think thais like money so i wonder still why not many make the effort, as it seems to me. I cannot say if this is true or not, my main experience with Thai people that speak English are working in tourist areas, in bars, restaurants and some shops. Go into a bank or similar and they don't speak English. Most companies are all Thai speaking, only employees that deal with foreigners might speak English. Out of the total staff in any company worldwide, the number of employees in any company that will be in a position to deal with foreigners in companies outside of their own is very small. If a Thai or anyone worldwide is planning to work in an area that requires a foreign language, then it is usually at University or after that these people will themselves put in the time and effort to learn this foreign language. I'll give Ireland as an example, Irish is taught from age 4 to age 18 in all schools and it is a mandatory subject. The teachers are all fluent Irish and English speakers. Problem is that Irish is not used on a daily basis outside of school. This results in more than 90% of the population not being able to speak Irish. This on the face of it is mind boggling, considering that it is out national language and students spend 14 years learning it. Ultimately no one will learn a subject unless they see a need for it and use what they learn on a daily basis. Implementing new practices or improving the quality of teachers has little impact. Teachers in Ireland are very highly qualified in their areas and well qualified to deliver on their subject material, but still this enormous fail in the Irish language learning is there. A fairly new initiative of total immersion of everything being taught through Irish is having more success, but having spoken with some nieces of mine on the subject, they say that the main reason they learn and use Irish is so that they can talk without adults knowing what they are saying. A niece of mine just started her medical degree. I was astonished at how much of her reading was in English. Her English is not good enough to keep up. Be very scared if you plan to have any serious medical work done by a doctor who cannot converse well in English. God knows what they have studied. English is not only the language of business. It is also a massive part of the language of learning and research. If u cant read and write English, you cut off probably the biggest combined store of global knowledge on just about any subject. That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHH Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I was a professor for six years at the U. which rivals Chula. I can tell you that the problems of raising the standards there are monumental, and elsewhere because that one just has to be typical and not unusual, . The problems are across the board.... top leadership, mid level admin, about half of the faculty, and students who know they do not have to try much to get the degree. The clean-out would be extremely painful. Start by demanding real achievement from students for higher grades will buck up against parents who just want "babies" to have a degree and the student themselves who have to ask, why work harder? If they are not rich, where they have a family "job," they look at about 30000/mo salary for a MBA. The middle class does seem to value education but is realistic and not idealistic like India parents or Japanese who demand top performance by their children. Lifting up a nation's education has to start with the real universities....... these turn out real teachers at all levels and up go the standards as more is asked of students. It is no accident that any medical doctor you want to go to has course work and practice in, usually, America that is well beyond Thailand training. Oh, help me shut up because, even if I know the problems from the inside, I have no way to do anything about it. This job is for Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzvic Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 A good place for Thailand to start in regards to education reform (IMHO) would be to emphasize and facilitate the learning of conversational English. Thailand has a unique opportunity to do just that by tapping into its pool of native English speaking retirees living in the Kingdom. Many of the retirees would jump at the chance to teach conversational English on a volunteer basis in their local schools; however they are prevented from doing so by Thai immigration regulations. ************************************************************************************* Have you heard of Meet-up groups Utley? I've not made it to a meeting yet, but a group meets up for regular conversational English in central BKK. I've toyed with the idea of starting up "language corners" in BKK, whereby people interested in practising their English and/or other languages have the opportunity to do so. Such operated in China decades ago, and also in Auckland until recently. I agree with you re education reform; many better-off Thai parents send their children for high schooling in English-speaking countries or to BKK branches of them. Thus no critical mass forms to press for better educational facilities. I mix with many young international tourists in NZ and have noticed the gradual improvement in English over the past four years of those from Asia; the majority are from Europe who also come to improve their spoken language (though their grammatical structure/understanding is sometimes better than the average local!) as well as attend language schools. The best seminars given by visiting European professors have been in English, especially in the sciences as they seem to have greater clarity in thinking and expression. My son began learning Thai on arrival there and has found it a wonderful advantage to have alongside his English. It took me decades to understand English at a complex level, though it's delightfully simple at a basic level, so can understand it being daunting for adult learners, just as Thai is for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Sure but the UK doesn't have the University of Golf, American Football, Bowling, Baseball, Basketball etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Strange title for the thread - what the fk is an Ivy League? I've lived in a large Isarn city for many years and can honestly say that I wouldn't let the majority of foreign retirees anywhere near my kids. What about all the English teachers that are eking a living here - would you want to take work away from them with your "I'm a farang and can change Thai society" ridiculous attitude when the fact is you don't even bother to learn Thai and can't have an intellectual conversation with your own girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I was a professor for six years at the U. which rivals Chula. I can tell you that the problems of raising the standards there are monumental, and elsewhere because that one just has to be typical and not unusual, . The problems are across the board.... top leadership, mid level admin, about half of the faculty, and students who know they do not have to try much to get the degree. The clean-out would be extremely painful. Start by demanding real achievement from students for higher grades will buck up against parents who just want "babies" to have a degree and the student themselves who have to ask, why work harder? If they are not rich, where they have a family "job," they look at about 30000/mo salary for a MBA. The middle class does seem to value education but is realistic and not idealistic like India parents or Japanese who demand top performance by their children. Lifting up a nation's education has to start with the real universities....... these turn out real teachers at all levels and up go the standards as more is asked of students. It is no accident that any medical doctor you want to go to has course work and practice in, usually, America that is well beyond Thailand training. Oh, help me shut up because, even if I know the problems from the inside, I have no way to do anything about it. This job is for Thai. Why not say it? Thammasat Uni. Professor is a senior academic with a PhD - I'm amazed at how some English teachers give themselves this title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. 1. Which one did you go to? 2. Who is everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRYANG Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Your thread title and message content are not coherent. They are in fact two different topics. QUESTIONS/STATEMENTS 1. Title: A statement arguing for asian universities instead of Harvard 2. Message: Thailand must start working on an educational reform to stay competitive in asia. ANSWER: 1. Ambitious students chose top schools based on, a) Level of international competitiveness at faculty (I.e how far you want to get in your respective field and to actually have one or two Nobel Laureates as teachers. Unless you belong to the 0.01% of the top elite students in the world this come as a low priority as to most people even elementary university math is difficult.) Location preferences (Weather, alumni-activites, and other micro and macro-factors in your environment) c) Budget (Harvard is known to be one of the most expensive universities all categories reaching $60K-100K/year) d) Networking capabilities (You will probably meet most of the future political-, scientific- or business leaders in some of the top-5 universities) I would say that unless your location preference is actually asia or follow a dedicated team of scientist in a specific field, there is no point whatsoever to pursue an Asian university if you are non-asian national. 2. "If Thailand is working toward a prosperous and productive future, this list should act as a wake-up call that the country most noted for its welcoming "vertical smiles" needs to work on education reform ASAP before history passes it by." They do. The problem is the 98% of the population that just tries to keep up surviving. Before anyone can start an educational process in technical fields (i.e higher degree of knowledge in any area) they must first feel comfortable about their own living standards with room to spare. That meaning that you can't work 12 hours a day with a salary just barely enough for your own survival. To prosper further education IS important. However, Thailand must work hard on efficiency in areas such as logistics infrastructure, Energy transformation, Technological know-how and more and from what I can see... that will take a long time without external help. As said by "The vast majority of people from mainland Europe don't speak English, yet they are not stuck on farms or in mines." Agreed. Domestic language has nothing to do with this. I am pretty sure that the Beijing Aerospace Command and Control Centre doesn't speak english as primary language if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRYANG Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This might come as slightly OT but I would argue that one day empirical study beats 100 books and 10 years at a university combined. Studiyng is basically like trying to read the taste of a lime. But only tasting it yourself will reveal the true taste. No book can substitute that. 2000 years ago a man calculated the circumference of earth with a stick. He didn't need any university to learn that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. Think of it this quality over quantity "Mark " A. product of finest British Education Dear YK product of the finest KFC University Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This might come as slightly OT but I would argue that one day empirical study beats 100 books and 10 years at a university combined. Studiyng is basically like trying to read the taste of a lime. But only tasting it yourself will reveal the true taste. No book can substitute that. 2000 years ago a man calculated the circumference of earth with a stick. He didn't need any university to learn that. Nice to know. Did you tell all those folks who spent all that money on Oxford and Harvard they wasted their money? I wonder if my heart surgeon knows all the years he spent at school were wasted. He should have just gone in carving away. Same for jet pilots; who needs education. Get in that plane and fly her off. Architects don't need any math do they? Mortar and a brick should do it. And any guitar player can write a symphony. And anyone make an atomic bomb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRYANG Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This might come as slightly OT but I would argue that one day empirical study beats 100 books and 10 years at a university combined. Studiyng is basically like trying to read the taste of a lime. But only tasting it yourself will reveal the true taste. No book can substitute that. 2000 years ago a man calculated the circumference of earth with a stick. He didn't need any university to learn that. Nice to know. Did you tell all those folks who spent all that money on Oxford and Harvard they wasted their money? I wonder if my heart surgeon knows all the years he spent at school were wasted. He should have just gone in carving away. Same for jet pilots; who needs education. Get in that plane and fly her off. Architects don't need any math do they? Mortar and a brick should do it. And any guitar player can write a symphony. And anyone make an atomic bomb. 1. Spending money on school or spending money discovering yourself - I would say if the school only provides the book and a teacher then it was waste. 2. The best surgeons are the ones that studied by doing more than reading. 3. Jet pilots spends time in simulators to come as close to reality as possible 4. Architects that wants to make something that no one else has ever done, probably can't read that or it's already old. 5. Writing symphonies surely can't be done by reading how someone else did 6. The atom bomb was created out from thousands and thousands of experiments. In fact, any book written at that time clearly stated that it would be impossible to make. I'm not saying reading is bad to you. Just that putting things to practice is far better. Any fighter pilot can testify that the experience of flying is nothing you can read about. By reading you will inherently limit yourself to what other experienced. But your experiences could be different. And there are thousands of examples where books needs to be rewritten because they were wrong. I'm suggesting that you go out in the world and "write" your own book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This might come as slightly OT but I would argue that one day empirical study beats 100 books and 10 years at a university combined. Studiyng is basically like trying to read the taste of a lime. But only tasting it yourself will reveal the true taste. No book can substitute that. 2000 years ago a man calculated the circumference of earth with a stick. He didn't need any university to learn that. Nice to know. Did you tell all those folks who spent all that money on Oxford and Harvard they wasted their money? I wonder if my heart surgeon knows all the years he spent at school were wasted. He should have just gone in carving away. Same for jet pilots; who needs education. Get in that plane and fly her off. Architects don't need any math do they? Mortar and a brick should do it. And any guitar player can write a symphony. And anyone make an atomic bomb. 1. Spending money on school or spending money discovering yourself - I would say if the school only provides the book and a teacher then it was waste. 2. The best surgeons are the ones that studied by doing more than reading. 3. Jet pilots spends time in simulators to come as close to reality as possible 4. Architects that wants to make something that no one else has ever done, probably can't read that or it's already old. 5. Writing symphonies surely can't be done by reading how someone else did 6. The atom bomb was created out from thousands and thousands of experiments. In fact, any book written at that time clearly stated that it would be impossible to make. I'm not saying reading is bad to you. Just that putting things to practice is far better. Any fighter pilot can testify that the experience of flying is nothing you can read about. By reading you will inherently limit yourself to what other experienced. But your experiences could be different. And there are thousands of examples where books needs to be rewritten because they were wrong. I'm suggesting that you go out in the world and "write" your own book. Surgeons can't operate without a strong background in biology and physiology and chemistry. Do you have any idea what pre med students do? What medical students do? What interns do? Principles of Flight Aircraft General Knowledge – Systems Aircraft General Knowledge - Instrumentation Human Performance Meteorology VFR Communications IFR Communications General Navigation Radio Navigation Flight Planning Aircraft Performance Mass & Balance Operational Procedures Air Law 760 hours classroom before getting into an airplane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Aviation_Academy Architecture majors may even take up to three courses in college-level calculus, moving on to three-dimensional mathematics. Linear Programming. Courses in linear programming and optimization teach architecture majors how to find the best possible value in certain situations. 4 years of college level maths to get a degree as an architectural engineering. Writing a symphony is normally done by conductors who have been classically trained in college 4 to 10 years. The atomic bomb was created by engineers all of whom had degrees. On August 2, 1939, just before the beginning of World War II, Albert Einstein wrote to then President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Einstein and several other scientists told Roosevelt of efforts in Nazi Germany to purify uranium-235, which could be used to build an atomic bomb. It was shortly thereafter that the United States Government began the serious undertaking known then only as "The Manhattan Project." And finally suprise, "To begin training, a candidate must be 18 to 34 years old, be a U.S. citizen and have a bachelor’s degree. To become a pilot, a candidate must make it through tests, selection and officer school." Yes fighter pilots need a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. 1. Which one did you go to? 2. Who is everyone? Myself. Durham. There are plenty of non entity unis in the UK. Was regaled a while ago by a Thai girl who had gone to UEA. I had to scratch my head for a while. University of East Anglia. There are universities and universities........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As regards the choice of university I am afraid that I will sound snobbish when i say that it is all about reputation. People in the 'know' so to speak will understand who you are by the university you attended. In England if you did not attend one of the below; forget about reputation. That is how people think and in fact I have seen work done by students from universities in this group and others outside this group and the level of academic excellence required simply to pass is very, very different especially at post-grad level. University of Birmingham University of Bristol University of Cambridge Cardiff University Durham University University of Edinburgh University of Exeter University of Glasgow Imperial College London King's College London University of Leeds University of Liverpool London School of Economics & Political Science University of Manchester Newcastle University University of Nottingham University of Oxford Queen Mary University of London Queen's University Belfast University of Sheffield University of Southampton University College London University of Warwick University of York I assume America is the same but I think only Harvard and perhaps Princetown count for anything much this side of the pond? Not my point of view neccesarily . . . Thai people who attend good schools in Bangkok often have a certain arrogance and understand that they will buy their grades in order to attend university. They cannot be graded lower than 50% anyway even if they do not attend for half the year. The poor (outside of Bangkok) may not necessarily benefit from better english as the social heirarchy is likely to prevent them from attaining positions beyond their state in life and so their language skills may only be used in the service industry or other even more undesirable industries. The 'switched on' fairly wealthy Thais are motivated to learn English well and it shows. They are interested largely because they want to own their own business that will rely on international trade. They often attend language schools in their teens or early 20.s as most provision in schools is dire consisting of underpaid/underqualified foreigners who qualify for the job simply by being white. Logically Thailand's lack of progress in language learning in comparison to say, Vietnam is due to a lack of investment in education at school level. Thai schools are still in the dark ages really, even the good ones. Regarding the popularity of learning Chinese I would say that has as much to do with ruthless snobbery and refusal to integrate completely into Thailand by Thai/Chinese family enclaves. Their 'chines-eness' places them higher up the social scale. Most people of power, the ammart, are of recent Chinese descent and they don't favour English unless it's in a begrudging way. England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education.Think of it this quality over quantity"Mark " A. product of finest British Education Dear YK product of the finest KFC University That said, I know someone who was with Abhisit at Eton. Complete non entity. We had the mahadumronkuls and techapaibuls. Once again complete non entities. No one paid them any attention whatsoever and they didn't like making their beds one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. 1. Which one did you go to? 2. Who is everyone? Myself. Durham. There are plenty of non entity unis in the UK. Was regaled a while ago by a Thai girl who had gone to UEA. I had to scratch my head for a while. University of East Anglia. There are universities and universities........ Who is everyone? I've never heard of Durham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education. Think of it this quality over quantity "Mark " A. product of finest British Education Dear YK product of the finest KFC University Yingluck graduated with a BA degree from the Faculty of Political Science and Public Administration, Chiang Mai University in 1988 and received a MPA degree (specialization in Management Information Systems) from Kentucky State University in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England is such a little country; 91 universities. The US has 4,600. Difficult to compare really. Of the 91 British ones, everyone knows which ones count or not. If there are 4600 in the USA I am not sure that is much of an advert for an american college education.Think of it this quality over quantity"Mark " A. product of finest British Education Dear YK product of the finest KFC University Yingluck graduated with a BA degree from the Faculty of Political Science and Public Administration, Chiang Mai University in 1988 and received a MPA degree (specialization in Management Information Systems) from Kentucky State University in 1991. Graduated....? You mean bought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Dont let this move in a Political direction please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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