Exodus of Cambodian workers from Thailand hits agriculture, construction sectors

[AyG]

"Over the past week, more than 100,000 Cambodian workers in Thailand have returned home following rumours that the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) was planning to crack down on them."

Whilst the truth is that army spokeswoman Sirichan Ngathong recently said that from now on any illegal migrant workers found in Thailand would be arrested and deported. and went on to add "We see illegal workers as a threat because there were a lot of them and no clear measures to handle them, which could lead to social problems".

It would seem that the "rumours" are well-founded and The Nation a tad disingenuous.

[phuketrichard]

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

does this mean they are brought an paid for by the Ministry an can move them where they want.

MY GOD

Thought Thailand ended slavery awhile ago?

[tonbridgebrit]

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

Sounds a lot like slavery doesn't it.

But they just finished explaining to the US that they are no longer doing this

Obviously Chooka is not the only one who can't read.

Or is this selective reading by you lot of Shin supporters who have displayed this trait for over 7 months now?

Yes it is.

Or are you openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking??.... because it bloody well reads that way to me, and I am sure a head military guy will read it the same.

Watch your back.

One of the other articles from the NATION newspaper about the Cambodian worker problem, the one about the "Iron Fist".

Does it 'bloody well' look like to you that the article is 'being negative' about the way how this whole thing is being handled by the guys in charge ?

Do you think that the Nation newspaper should watch it's back ? I was surprised by Thai Visa putting up that article (about the "Iron Fist"), because yes, Thai Visa is in danger of being closed down by putting up negative comments about the junta.

Okay, let's get back to the issue of the Cambodian workers. Do you agree with "Crushdepth" and myself, about "so hire some Thais, no sympathy on this one" ??

(please note, the comment about Thai Visa being closed down because it put up the Iron Fist article was not meant for real)

[danglars]

One of the reasons offered for arresting and deporting undocumented migrant workers was that these workers were taking jobs that Thais could perform. Well, if there are Thais available for agricultural work but they the can demand 500 baht per day instead of the 300 baht given to migrant workers, what's wrong with that? What this proves is that migrant workers are keeping wages artificially low and that the average Thai worker will benefit. Am I missing something?

yes your brain has suffered a military coup and is not in residence

[Mr Yim]

Apart from those who wanted the over throw of the government, I believe most people can see through the sanitised news feeds and this is a prime example of someone spouting popularist rhetoric without thinking of the possible consequences.

As for the wages, 500 and 300 baht - you are having a laugh. More like 300 baht and 100-150 baht.

Regards

Mr Yim

[pookiki]

Yes you are missing a number of things, there are not enough Thai's to do all the jobs. If you look at the official unemployment stats you will see that the most unemployed people in the country are ones with degrees and not manual laborers. Last years stats showed 60 000 people with degrees that was unemployed and there was an article in Bangkok post that 150 000 new graduates will not find jobs this year. The other factor you are missing is greed by Thai employers, corrupt officials and lies about what is really going on. Reports from Cambodia tells a much different story. Forget about all what you have read and think, why would so many people that are making a living in Thailand, suddenly in their thousands decide to flee the country, leaving behind their jobs, belongings and using their last cash. Do you think that rumors are a strong enough reason to put so much fear into people. Why are only people from Cambodia fleeing? There are many illegal workers from Burma and Lao, why are they not fleeing in their tens of thousands? So you get white lies and you get damn lies.

The article said that there were Thais available to do the work at 500 baht a day. Is this part of the 'greed' by Thai employers to which you refer? Don't hire Thais when it is easier to hire and exploit undocumented migrant workers? Do you deny that they are being exploited? And since you seem to be so much better informed than I am, maybe you can enlighten me about the corrupt officials and the lies that are associated with this exodus -- with references.

Edited June 19, 2014 by pookiki

[tingtongteesood]

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

Why do you feel the need to read things into a statement that aren't there and try to deride the people who are trying to sort out the mess left by the previous joke of a government ? Your red side is shining through....There is nothing wrong with the statement and I am sure people will be allowed to say NO if they don't want to go there....

[chooka]

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

Why do you feel the need to read things into a statement that aren't there and try to deride the people who are trying to sort out the mess left by the previous joke of a government ? Your red side is shining through....There is nothing wrong with the statement and I am sure people will be allowed to say NO if they don't want to go there....

Actually I detest the reds and thick they are worthless pieces of excrement and should be exterminated along with the yellows and that would leave the majority of good people.

I don't have a red or yellow side and I don't know why these pigs are being bought into this topic.

[glasswort]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So hire some Thais. No sympathy on this one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

When the Thai contractor was building my house in Pattya, 10 years ago I asked why he employed Cambodian workers when there are Thais available. The response was that Cambodians work hard and Thais are lazy. Enough said!!!

[Fat Haggis]

Tingtongseesod, that's the problem, it's how people interpret these things, I too, who I'd like to think that in my 51 years of life, have a pretty decent grasp of my native tongue, but the the comment in bold to me, does imply that it will move people to these areas indeed and it does come across as being quite forceful, what it should have said is that, the various departments have requested that suitable employees, wishing to move to these sectors have the opportunity and should request to do so.

The migrant workers should never be told where they must go, the employers that need these workers need to be more specific and "request" applicants to fill these positions, not tell the authorities "I want people now" and the authoritative body should process these workers that are suitable, it should never be a case of "right, you lot are going to work on a building site" that sir is slave labour.

[Rimbuman]

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

Sounds a lot like slavery doesn't it.

But they just finished explaining to the US that they are no longer doing this

Obviously Chooka is not the only one who can't read.

Or is this selective reading by you lot of Shin supporters who have displayed this trait for over 7 months now?

Yes it is.

Or are you openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking??.... because it bloody well reads that way to me, and I am sure a head military guy will read it the same.

Watch your back.

how does this make one a Shin supporter. I am glad the Shins are gone so if having a different opinion to you makes me a Shin supporter then so be it. To try and win a discussion by simply saying you are a Shin supporter I win, is getting boring.

You fail to comment on the fact that you are openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking because

you can't deny you just did that.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Rimbuman

[Thai at Heart]

"Fruit orchard owners in Rayong's Muang district, meanwhile, claimed they had to hire Thai workers at Bt500 a day - compared to the Bt300 a day paid to Cambodians."

I guess with only a legal, Thai workforce soon prices for consumers will go up? That is assuming the statement above is correct and truthful.

Well this is the market and I am sorry, but this continual act of importing huge volume of immigrant labour to keep wages low is wrong.

One Thai with a tractor might be able to do the work of 10 cambodians.

Importing labour like this just short circuit the market.

[fab4]

Obviously Chooka is not the only one who can't read.

Or is this selective reading by you lot of Shin supporters who have displayed this trait for over 7 months now?

Yes it is.

Or are you openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking??.... because it bloody well reads that way to me, and I am sure a head military guy will read it the same.

Watch your back.

how does this make one a Shin supporter. I am glad the Shins are gone so if having a different opinion to you makes me a Shin supporter then so be it. To try and win a discussion by simply saying you are a Shin supporter I win, is getting boring.

You fail to comment on the fact that you are openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking because

you can't deny you just did that.

Oh great, another keyboard vigilante. Just what this forum needs.

[VINCENT2012]

these people are used only in big explotation where the big profit is.......i think the government is right to get rid of exploted immigration .....but the agriculture or the construction to be competitive need these people anyway, they should make it easy for the companys or farm owners to employ them legaly without so much paperwork, with social security and a controlled wages adapted to the thai life cost.

make a reform ok but make it easy for both parts.

don't send 100 000 people back home just like this!

the military goverment should find an alternative trying to keep the economy competitive and something fair for the foreign workers. just go and take the money from the companys who make millions on them, who use these people and tell them now they are responsable for their life, well being and security and for the cost of their working permit or cost back home.

that should have been a fair trade....you employed but now you are responsable

not you did something wrong so just trough that working meat away back to their poor life.

when are we going to stop using human flesh for a stupid dolar

[AyG]

Well this is the market and I am sorry, but this continual act of importing huge volume of immigrant labour to keep wages low is wrong.

(1) Who is doing the importing? The vast majority of migrant labourers is here of its own free choice. The fact that so many are working here illegally shows how attractive the labour market in Thailand is to them compared with their domestic options.

(2) The large number of immigrant workers is nothing to do with keeping wages low, it's to do with the fact that Thailand doesn't have enough workers of its own. The unemployment rate here is 0.9% - that's incredibly low. Lao and Burmese aren't taking jobs that Thai people would willingly do and aren't keeping the wages of Thai people down.

[Hawk]

So hire some Thais. No sympathy on this one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You go hire a few Thais, then you will understand how damn lazy and greedy they are.

[NeilSA1]

Obviously Chooka is not the only one who can't read.

Or is this selective reading by you lot of Shin supporters who have displayed this trait for over 7 months now?

Yes it is.

Or are you openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking??.... because it bloody well reads that way to me, and I am sure a head military guy will read it the same.

Watch your back.

how does this make one a Shin supporter. I am glad the Shins are gone so if having a different opinion to you makes me a Shin supporter then so be it. To try and win a discussion by simply saying you are a Shin supporter I win, is getting boring.

You fail to comment on the fact that you are openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking because

you can't deny you just did that.

Oh great, another keyboard vigilante. Just what this forum needs.

[Crushdepth]

So hire some Thais. No sympathy on this one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You go hire a few Thais, then you will understand how damn lazy and greedy they are.

Well it is Thailand, maybe it's time they dealt with it.

[NeilSA1]

Obviously Chooka is not the only one who can't read.

Or is this selective reading by you lot of Shin supporters who have displayed this trait for over 7 months now?

Yes it is.

Or are you openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking??.... because it bloody well reads that way to me, and I am sure a head military guy will read it the same.

Watch your back.

how does this make one a Shin supporter. I am glad the Shins are gone so if having a different opinion to you makes me a Shin supporter then so be it. To try and win a discussion by simply saying you are a Shin supporter I win, is getting boring.

You fail to comment on the fact that you are openly accusing the military of enforcing slavery and human trafficking because

you can't deny you just did that.

Oh great, another keyboard vigilante. Just what this forum needs.

Nary a squeak when there is good news, but always a typical nasty post when you think you can try and find fault against any one that is not supporting the Reds.

[Able]

^{At least it will improve the tourism figures when they all come back}

Edited June 19, 2014 by Able

[tonbridgebrit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So hire some Thais. No sympathy on this one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

When the Thai contractor was building my house in Pattya, 10 years ago I asked why he employed Cambodian workers when there are Thais available. The response was that Cambodians work hard and Thais are lazy. Enough said!!!

Maybe, if he was being honest, he would have said "Cambodia man, work hard and cheap pay (300 baht), I see Thai man do same same, work hard, but Thai man want 600 or 700 baht, why I get Thai man for job, I like make money, I like Cambodia man".

And if he did get a Thai man for 300 baht, well, that Thai man would really do very little all day long !

[HUAHIN62]

Yes you are missing a number of things, there are not enough Thai's to do all the jobs. If you look at the official unemployment stats you will see that the most unemployed people in the country are ones with degrees and not manual laborers. Last years stats showed 60 000 people with degrees that was unemployed and there was an article in Bangkok post that 150 000 new graduates will not find jobs this year. The other factor you are missing is greed by Thai employers, corrupt officials and lies about what is really going on. Reports from Cambodia tells a much different story. Forget about all what you have read and think, why would so many people that are making a living in Thailand, suddenly in their thousands decide to flee the country, leaving behind their jobs, belongings and using their last cash. Do you think that rumors are a strong enough reason to put so much fear into people. Why are only people from Cambodia fleeing? There are many illegal workers from Burma and Lao, why are they not fleeing in their tens of thousands? So you get white lies and you get damn lies.

The article said that there were Thais available to do the work at 500 baht a day. Is this part of the 'greed' by Thai employers to which you refer? Don't hire Thais when it is easier to hire and exploit undocumented migrant workers? Do you deny that they are being exploited? And since you seem to be so much better informed than I am, maybe you can enlighten me about the corrupt officials and the lies that are associated with this exodus -- with references.

The Thai employers employ illegal immigrants at less than the minimum wages and exploit them in various ways, from there the greed of the employers. To enable these illegal workers to stay in Thailand tea money are paid to officials, from there the corrupt officials. I will break about 10 orders if I tell you about the lies, thus it would be better if you read the regional news and read reports on the first hand experiences of people that fled Thailand. But ask yourself why the Combodia government slammed Thailand for the exodus and why are only people from Cambodia fleeing?

[pookiki]

Yes you are missing a number of things, there are not enough Thai's to do all the jobs. If you look at the official unemployment stats you will see that the most unemployed people in the country are ones with degrees and not manual laborers. Last years stats showed 60 000 people with degrees that was unemployed and there was an article in Bangkok post that 150 000 new graduates will not find jobs this year. The other factor you are missing is greed by Thai employers, corrupt officials and lies about what is really going on. Reports from Cambodia tells a much different story. Forget about all what you have read and think, why would so many people that are making a living in Thailand, suddenly in their thousands decide to flee the country, leaving behind their jobs, belongings and using their last cash. Do you think that rumors are a strong enough reason to put so much fear into people. Why are only people from Cambodia fleeing? There are many illegal workers from Burma and Lao, why are they not fleeing in their tens of thousands? So you get white lies and you get damn lies.

The article said that there were Thais available to do the work at 500 baht a day. Is this part of the 'greed' by Thai employers to which you refer? Don't hire Thais when it is easier to hire and exploit undocumented migrant workers? Do you deny that they are being exploited? And since you seem to be so much better informed than I am, maybe you can enlighten me about the corrupt officials and the lies that are associated with this exodus -- with references.

The Thai employers employ illegal immigrants at less than the minimum wages and exploit them in various ways, from there the greed of the employers. To enable these illegal workers to stay in Thailand tea money are paid to officials, from there the corrupt officials. I will break about 10 orders if I tell you about the lies, thus it would be better if you read the regional news and read reports on the first hand experiences of people that fled Thailand. But ask yourself why the Combodia government slammed Thailand for the exodus and why are only people from Cambodia fleeing?

When the news first broke about the crackdown on undocumented migrant workers, the first arrests were reported in Mae Sot and in Chiang Mai. The informal crossings along the Moei river were closed and the migrant workers had to decide whether to swim home or face arrest. The exodus of the migrant workers from Cambodia has been in the news the most but it is very difficult to discern what is happening with the workers from Myanmar. The Thai-Myanmar border is less guarded than the Thai-Cambodian border and it is much longer. Hence, it is more porous. Therefore, the situation is not known. I would also point out that Cambodians are always a target when the winds of Thai nationalism are being whipped. Whether it is Preah Vihear or allegations of paid Cambodian mercenaries during the recent protests in Bangkok. If I were an undocumented migrant worker from Cambodia, hell yes I would be scared. I would invite you to look at some of the human rights websites in Cambodia - ADHOC in particular. See what they are saying. Lastly, if Thailand is not able to simplify and rationalize its migrant worker verification system and give migrant workers the proper legal protection they deserve, the risks will outweigh the benefits for migrant workers to come to Thailand. It isn't a conspiracy as you would try to portray. It just boils down to humane treatment of fellow human beings.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Labour Ministry has said it would launch a project to systematically move documented workers to the areas abandoned by the departed Cambodians.

This sounds like they are the property of the Junta and they will just be moved from one paddock to another. Where is their freedom to work for an employer of their choice? You can own a buffalo but you can't own a human and do with them as you please.

does this mean they are brought an paid for by the Ministry an can move them where they want.

MY GOD

Thought Thailand ended slavery awhile ago?

Your brain is working overtime, your making many assumptions which are not what was said earlier by the army.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So hire some Thais. No sympathy on this one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

When the Thai contractor was building my house in Pattya, 10 years ago I asked why he employed Cambodian workers when there are Thais available. The response was that Cambodians work hard and Thais are lazy. Enough said!!!

Maybe, if he was being honest, he would have said "Cambodia man, work hard and cheap pay (300 baht), I see Thai man do same same, work hard, but Thai man want 600 or 700 baht, why I get Thai man for job, I like make money, I like Cambodia man".

And if he did get a Thai man for 300 baht, well, that Thai man would really do very little all day long !

Well there's another twist of all of that.

We build a new home in gated village in the North 2 years back.

Actual construction done by another subcontracted company.

Owners of const. company - 2 Thai men, I guess in their 50's, both speak good English, pleasant and approachable.

Two supervisors, both Thai.

All workers are young hilltribe men. MAny speak some English.

Owners say they employee hilltribe men because they work hard and they are proud of their good work and they have little hesitation to talk with the boss.

Workers say Thai bosses are good guys, fair and pleasant, and they pay same daily wage as Thai would be paid. Always paid on time, always paid overtime, never any games with deductions etc., any accidents Thai bosses quickly on the spot and quickly to medical treatment / hospital, boss pays and not deducted.

Our house; well built, everything done well, all straight, nice edge work etc., wallpaper as good as any western professional.

We sponsored a nice party for the workers, bosses came, and we gave every worker a nice bonus.

Next morning they all arrived and asked if there was anything they could help with to say thanks for the party.

Everybody happy.

[rubl]

"Fruit orchard owners in Rayong's Muang district, meanwhile, claimed they had to hire Thai workers at Bt500 a day - compared to the Bt300 a day paid to Cambodians."

I guess with only a legal, Thai workforce soon prices for consumers will go up? That is assuming the statement above is correct and truthful.

And that is you assuming that the cambodians previously hired were not legal. If they are legal it highlights the fact that less skilled Thai workers are paid more than the migrant workforce.

Whatever, if the regulations are enforced and only registered Cambodians are allowed to re enter Thailand, it follows that these skilled Cambodians should be paid the real rate i.e 500 baht per day. This will mean that either the employer soaks up the real cost of employment, or more likely passes the cost on to the consumer.

Either way, the mass exodus of the migrant workers has opened up one mighty can of worms and may force the relevant people to think more carefully about the consequences of their actions, or at the very least, slow it down some.

I assume nothing. The Cambodians hired before may or may not have been legal and if they were paid 300 Baht/day before one may assume they were legal. Or in your words, whatever.

It doesn't follow that really skilled Cambodians 'should' be paid 500/day, assuming that is the 'real' rate. There is no info on what the 'real' rate is, just that due to lack of workers, unskilled Thai ask 500/day whereas skilled Cambodians got 300/day only, Bit unfair, but similar situations exist in Western Europe, equally unfair.

Anyway the mass exodus makes one wonder why those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country. If as the OP suggests Cambodians can work here legally with the right papers, then that would be the way to go. Maybe a bit painful at first, but to just 'slow down actions' seems not a preferred advise. With politics having ignored and/or profitted for ages, it's time for action, especially as the NCPO only has a year or so to build up democracy, fairness and a legal framework binding to all.

[Emptyset]

Well this is the market and I am sorry, but this continual act of importing huge volume of immigrant labour to keep wages low is wrong.

(1) Who is doing the importing? The vast majority of migrant labourers is here of its own free choice. The fact that so many are working here illegally shows how attractive the labour market in Thailand is to them compared with their domestic options.

(2) The large number of immigrant workers is nothing to do with keeping wages low, it's to do with the fact that Thailand doesn't have enough workers of its own. The unemployment rate here is 0.9% - that's incredibly low. Lao and Burmese aren't taking jobs that Thai people would willingly do and aren't keeping the wages of Thai people down.

What will actually happen in many cases is that companies will simply just move to neighbouring countries if they can't get the labour they require, and the Thais they do employ will lose their jobs too. The effect of migrantion on wages is often more slight than people think it is, and there is a "triangle of benefit" which extends to Thai workers too:

"Most estimates of the net economic contributions of migrants in industrial countries are based on aggregate labour demand and supply curves. The arrival of immigrants shifts the labour supply curve outward, resulting in a new equilibrium with more employment and lower wages. A graphical representation reproduced as Figure1 shows national income as the area under the aggregate demand curve, divided by the equilibrium wage line into a rectangle of wages to workers (below the wage line) and a triangle of returns to capital and land (abovethe wage line). Adding migrant workers lowers the wage line and increases total employment and national

income. Most of the wage rectangle that is enlarged by migration is paid to migrants, but an extra triangle of benefits is created, and this represents the net economic gain due to migration.

Estimates based on this approach for the United States in the mid-1990s, show that the foreign-born workerswho were 10 per cent of the labour force depressed the wage line by three per cent. With labour’s share of national income almost 70 per cent, the size of the triangle representing the net benefits of immigrants was estimated in 1997 to be a tenth of one per cent of GDP (Smith and Edmonston, 1997). For Thailand, if wage sare depressed 3 per cent by migrants, representing 5 per cent of workers, and labour’s share of nationalincome is 40 per cent, the net gain due to migrant workers would be $47 million in constant dollars and $53 million in current dollars."

http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangkok/documents/publication/wcms_098230.pdf

[khaowong1]

"Fruit orchard owners in Rayong's Muang district, meanwhile, claimed they had to hire Thai workers at Bt500 a day - compared to the Bt300 a day paid to Cambodians."

I guess with only a legal, Thai workforce soon prices for consumers will go up? That is assuming the statement above is correct and truthful.

And that is you assuming that the cambodians previously hired were not legal. If they are legal it highlights the fact that less skilled Thai workers are paid more than the migrant workforce.

Whatever, if the regulations are enforced and only registered Cambodians are allowed to re enter Thailand, it follows that these skilled Cambodians should be paid the real rate i.e 500 baht per day. This will mean that either the employer soaks up the real cost of employment, or more likely passes the cost on to the consumer.

Either way, the mass exodus of the migrant workers has opened up one mighty can of worms and may force the relevant people to think more carefully about the consequences of their actions, or at the very least, slow it down some.

I think some points are lost here. I'm guessing that the General is looking to the welfare of Thai people first and foremost. If he can get everyone (Thai) working at a decent wage, that's good for the country. I doubt he's too worried about making the Cambodian people happy. The same thing is going on in the US. The President should be concerned about the welfare and happiness of the American people and not trying to prove to the world he's the benevolent statesman, which is what it appears he's aiming for. It's going to come back and bite him on the ass. Back to Thailand, I'm not saying to treat the illegal Cambodians as second class citizens, although they are, the first goal should be to the Thai citizen. And that appears to be what he's doing. If wages go up, forcing prices to the consumer up, that's the price of seeing that all citizens have a living wage. And that should be the goal of every country in the world. Things will level out. Wages, prices of consumer goods, it always does.

[northernjohn]

Yes you are missing a number of things, there are not enough Thai's to do all the jobs. If you look at the official unemployment stats you will see that the most unemployed people in the country are ones with degrees and not manual laborers. Last years stats showed 60 000 people with degrees that was unemployed and there was an article in Bangkok post that 150 000 new graduates will not find jobs this year. The other factor you are missing is greed by Thai employers, corrupt officials and lies about what is really going on. Reports from Cambodia tells a much different story. Forget about all what you have read and think, why would so many people that are making a living in Thailand, suddenly in their thousands decide to flee the country, leaving behind their jobs, belongings and using their last cash. Do you think that rumors are a strong enough reason to put so much fear into people. Why are only people from Cambodia fleeing? There are many illegal workers from Burma and Lao, why are they not fleeing in their tens of thousands? So you get white lies and you get damn lies.

The article said that there were Thais available to do the work at 500 baht a day. Is this part of the 'greed' by Thai employers to which you refer? Don't hire Thais when it is easier to hire and exploit undocumented migrant workers? Do you deny that they are being exploited? And since you seem to be so much better informed than I am, maybe you can enlighten me about the corrupt officials and the lies that are associated with this exodus -- with references.

The Thai employers employ illegal immigrants at less than the minimum wages and exploit them in various ways, from there the greed of the employers. To enable these illegal workers to stay in Thailand tea money are paid to officials, from there the corrupt officials. I will break about 10 orders if I tell you about the lies, thus it would be better if you read the regional news and read reports on the first hand experiences of people that fled Thailand. But ask yourself why the Combodia government slammed Thailand for the exodus and why are only people from Cambodia fleeing?

When the news first broke about the crackdown on undocumented migrant workers, the first arrests were reported in Mae Sot and in Chiang Mai. The informal crossings along the Moei river were closed and the migrant workers had to decide whether to swim home or face arrest. The exodus of the migrant workers from Cambodia has been in the news the most but it is very difficult to discern what is happening with the workers from Myanmar. The Thai-Myanmar border is less guarded than the Thai-Cambodian border and it is much longer. Hence, it is more porous. Therefore, the situation is not known. I would also point out that Cambodians are always a target when the winds of Thai nationalism are being whipped. Whether it is Preah Vihear or allegations of paid Cambodian mercenaries during the recent protests in Bangkok. If I were an undocumented migrant worker from Cambodia, hell yes I would be scared. I would invite you to look at some of the human rights websites in Cambodia - ADHOC in particular. See what they are saying. Lastly, if Thailand is not able to simplify and rationalize its migrant worker verification system and give migrant workers the proper legal protection they deserve, the risks will outweigh the benefits for migrant workers to come to Thailand. It isn't a conspiracy as you would try to portray. It just boils down to humane treatment of fellow human beings.

A very good post. I had dealings with one of the Burmese refugee camps in Mai Sot. I asked one of the officials what the population was and he said hard to tell they go back and forth across the border so easy it is changing daily.

I really like and agree on this part taken out of context a little bit but never the less fact.

"simplify and rationalize its migrant worker verification system and give migrant workers the proper legal protection they deserve"

Here in Chiang Mai a while back they had a drive on to legalize all the immigrant workers. The process was so time consuming that it would generate crowds out side the immigration property and on occasion across the highway. When you stop to think about how illiterate some of them are it is easy to see a much better system is needed.

[fab4]

I assume nothing. The Cambodians hired before may or may not have been legal and if they were paid 300 Baht/day before one may assume they were legal. Or in your words, whatever.

It doesn't follow that really skilled Cambodians 'should' be paid 500/day, assuming that is the 'real' rate. There is no info on what the 'real' rate is, just that due to lack of workers, unskilled Thai ask 500/day whereas skilled Cambodians got 300/day only, Bit unfair, but similar situations exist in Western Europe, equally unfair.

Anyway the mass exodus makes one wonder why those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country. If as the OP suggests Cambodians can work here legally with the right papers, then that would be the way to go. Maybe a bit painful at first, but to just 'slow down actions' seems not a preferred advise. With politics having ignored and/or profitted for ages, it's time for action, especially as the NCPO only has a year or so to build up democracy, fairness and a legal framework binding to all.

One does wonder why " those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country", only some people don't wonder enough and accept what they're told.