Exodus of Cambodian workers from Thailand hits agriculture, construction sectors

[fab4]

"Fruit orchard owners in Rayong's Muang district, meanwhile, claimed they had to hire Thai workers at Bt500 a day - compared to the Bt300 a day paid to Cambodians."

I guess with only a legal, Thai workforce soon prices for consumers will go up? That is assuming the statement above is correct and truthful.

And that is you assuming that the cambodians previously hired were not legal. If they are legal it highlights the fact that less skilled Thai workers are paid more than the migrant workforce.

Whatever, if the regulations are enforced and only registered Cambodians are allowed to re enter Thailand, it follows that these skilled Cambodians should be paid the real rate i.e 500 baht per day. This will mean that either the employer soaks up the real cost of employment, or more likely passes the cost on to the consumer.

Either way, the mass exodus of the migrant workers has opened up one mighty can of worms and may force the relevant people to think more carefully about the consequences of their actions, or at the very least, slow it down some.

I think some points are lost here. I'm guessing that the General is looking to the welfare of Thai people first and foremost. If he can get everyone (Thai) working at a decent wage, that's good for the country. I doubt he's too worried about making the Cambodian people happy. The same thing is going on in the US. The President should be concerned about the welfare and happiness of the American people and not trying to prove to the world he's the benevolent statesman, which is what it appears he's aiming for. It's going to come back and bite him on the ass. Back to Thailand, I'm not saying to treat the illegal Cambodians as second class citizens, although they are, the first goal should be to the Thai citizen. And that appears to be what he's doing. If wages go up, forcing prices to the consumer up, that's the price of seeing that all citizens have a living wage. And that should be the goal of every country in the world. Things will level out. Wages, prices of consumer goods, it always does.

I think you're missing the point that the migrant workers of whatever nationality do the work that Thais won't, at a low cost so that employers, can and do, exploit them.

If, as you say, Prayuth is looking to the welfare of the Thai people to ensure their employment at a decent wage, (a doubtful argument considering less than 1% are unemployed http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/unemployment-rate ) the employers certainly aren't. Look at the furore when the minimum wage was increased.

[northernjohn]

I assume nothing. The Cambodians hired before may or may not have been legal and if they were paid 300 Baht/day before one may assume they were legal. Or in your words, whatever.

It doesn't follow that really skilled Cambodians 'should' be paid 500/day, assuming that is the 'real' rate. There is no info on what the 'real' rate is, just that due to lack of workers, unskilled Thai ask 500/day whereas skilled Cambodians got 300/day only, Bit unfair, but similar situations exist in Western Europe, equally unfair.

Anyway the mass exodus makes one wonder why those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country. If as the OP suggests Cambodians can work here legally with the right papers, then that would be the way to go. Maybe a bit painful at first, but to just 'slow down actions' seems not a preferred advise. With politics having ignored and/or profitted for ages, it's time for action, especially as the NCPO only has a year or so to build up democracy, fairness and a legal framework binding to all.

One does wonder why " those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country", only some people don't wonder enough and accept what they're told.

and you were told that the ones who are here legally with all the papers are fleeing?

I believe that you would believe that.

As usual

[rubl]

I assume nothing. The Cambodians hired before may or may not have been legal and if they were paid 300 Baht/day before one may assume they were legal. Or in your words, whatever.

It doesn't follow that really skilled Cambodians 'should' be paid 500/day, assuming that is the 'real' rate. There is no info on what the 'real' rate is, just that due to lack of workers, unskilled Thai ask 500/day whereas skilled Cambodians got 300/day only, Bit unfair, but similar situations exist in Western Europe, equally unfair.

Anyway the mass exodus makes one wonder why those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country. If as the OP suggests Cambodians can work here legally with the right papers, then that would be the way to go. Maybe a bit painful at first, but to just 'slow down actions' seems not a preferred advise. With politics having ignored and/or profitted for ages, it's time for action, especially as the NCPO only has a year or so to build up democracy, fairness and a legal framework binding to all.

One does wonder why " those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country", only some people don't wonder enough and accept what they're told.

So, what are you trying to imply?

"Nonetheless, Chanthaburi Thai-Cambodian Border Tourism and Trade Association vice-chairman Sombat Jeungtrakul said the labourers coming back to Thailand today are mostly workers who returned home to legalise their documents to be able to work legally in Thailand."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/735760-cambodian-labour-force-exodus-from-thailand-eases/

Edited June 19, 2014 by rubl

[scorecard]

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I assume nothing. The Cambodians hired before may or may not have been legal and if they were paid 300 Baht/day before one may assume they were legal. Or in your words, whatever.

It doesn't follow that really skilled Cambodians 'should' be paid 500/day, assuming that is the 'real' rate. There is no info on what the 'real' rate is, just that due to lack of workers, unskilled Thai ask 500/day whereas skilled Cambodians got 300/day only, Bit unfair, but similar situations exist in Western Europe, equally unfair.

Anyway the mass exodus makes one wonder why those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country. If as the OP suggests Cambodians can work here legally with the right papers, then that would be the way to go. Maybe a bit painful at first, but to just 'slow down actions' seems not a preferred advise. With politics having ignored and/or profitted for ages, it's time for action, especially as the NCPO only has a year or so to build up democracy, fairness and a legal framework binding to all.

One does wonder why " those Cambodians if here legally saw a need to flee the country", only some people don't wonder enough and accept what they're told.

And what does that mean?

[pookiki]

Not only Cambodians:

http://www.dvb.no/news/arbitrary-arrests-of-burmese-migrants-continue-in-chiang-mai-burma-myanmar/41632

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/raids-arrests-leave-burmese-migrants-edge-thailand.html

[HUAHIN62]

Yes you are missing a number of things, there are not enough Thai's to do all the jobs. If you look at the official unemployment stats you will see that the most unemployed people in the country are ones with degrees and not manual laborers. Last years stats showed 60 000 people with degrees that was unemployed and there was an article in Bangkok post that 150 000 new graduates will not find jobs this year. The other factor you are missing is greed by Thai employers, corrupt officials and lies about what is really going on. Reports from Cambodia tells a much different story. Forget about all what you have read and think, why would so many people that are making a living in Thailand, suddenly in their thousands decide to flee the country, leaving behind their jobs, belongings and using their last cash. Do you think that rumors are a strong enough reason to put so much fear into people. Why are only people from Cambodia fleeing? There are many illegal workers from Burma and Lao, why are they not fleeing in their tens of thousands? So you get white lies and you get damn lies.

The article said that there were Thais available to do the work at 500 baht a day. Is this part of the 'greed' by Thai employers to which you refer? Don't hire Thais when it is easier to hire and exploit undocumented migrant workers? Do you deny that they are being exploited? And since you seem to be so much better informed than I am, maybe you can enlighten me about the corrupt officials and the lies that are associated with this exodus -- with references.

The Thai employers employ illegal immigrants at less than the minimum wages and exploit them in various ways, from there the greed of the employers. To enable these illegal workers to stay in Thailand tea money are paid to officials, from there the corrupt officials. I will break about 10 orders if I tell you about the lies, thus it would be better if you read the regional news and read reports on the first hand experiences of people that fled Thailand. But ask yourself why the Combodia government slammed Thailand for the exodus and why are only people from Cambodia fleeing?

When the news first broke about the crackdown on undocumented migrant workers, the first arrests were reported in Mae Sot and in Chiang Mai. The informal crossings along the Moei river were closed and the migrant workers had to decide whether to swim home or face arrest. The exodus of the migrant workers from Cambodia has been in the news the most but it is very difficult to discern what is happening with the workers from Myanmar. The Thai-Myanmar border is less guarded than the Thai-Cambodian border and it is much longer. Hence, it is more porous. Therefore, the situation is not known. I would also point out that Cambodians are always a target when the winds of Thai nationalism are being whipped. Whether it is Preah Vihear or allegations of paid Cambodian mercenaries during the recent protests in Bangkok. If I were an undocumented migrant worker from Cambodia, hell yes I would be scared. I would invite you to look at some of the human rights websites in Cambodia - ADHOC in particular. See what they are saying. Lastly, if Thailand is not able to simplify and rationalize its migrant worker verification system and give migrant workers the proper legal protection they deserve, the risks will outweigh the benefits for migrant workers to come to Thailand. It isn't a conspiracy as you would try to portray. It just boils down to humane treatment of fellow human beings.

I am not saying its a conspiracy but some reports indicate that some people did not leave the country on their own steam or just out of fear but was helped along. Let me try to explain without stepping on toes. After it was announced that there would be more stricter control of illegal workers, there were cases where people was rounded up, put on trucks and taken to the border. There were unconfirmed reports of ill treatment and this started the exodus. The intend and contents of the new "regulation/order" was not communicated to officials and the neighboring countries and to their citizens in a clear way. The result was incorrect actions by officials, rumors, confusion and the exodus. The normal prosedure would have been for the government first to talk to the countries involved and to get them onboard before the new "regulation" is announced. Before implementation the new regulation and how it must be implemented must be clearly communicated to junior officials. It seems as this was not done, but now to deny responsibility for what happened is not the correct way to handle this situation. By not taking responsibility, lies are told to cover mistakes that have been made.

I passed a Thai-Burma border crossing last week and could not see any abnormal flow of people, but as you say this border is not secure the same as all the other Thai borders. I agree with your post on the exploitation of workers, this type of practices always come back to bite you. Untill corruption among officials are not errdicated, employers will continue to get away with exploitation of workers. All the laws are inplace but aren't inforced, if they are inforced there will be no exploitation on the scale that exist now.

[Tanlic]

I don't get this! If all these workers leave the country who does the work they were doing and at what cost?

The work permit for these people should be a free disco stamp on the back of their hand.

I would have thought whatever their labour was producing will now go through the roof pricewise and affect a lot of the wrong people financially.

There's a lot of talk about exploiting these people but I can't understand what's wrong with exploiting people who want to be exploited because to them it's not exploitation.

If their jobs can be filled by wiling Thais then that's a different ball game but if I was a poor Thai I'd rather work for 300 baht a day than sit at home drinking moonshine and doing nothing.

What's to say that if employers are forced to up wages that the same Thai still wont stay home?