Thailand downgraded to be among worst human trafficking centres

[chooka]

I love this anti American spirit here from those Britis and Europeans. How soon they forget if it wasn't for us Americans you will be going to the German Embassy to get a new passport. Maybe your Brits would even consider that something good. And you folks from Asia would be carrying your Japanese Passport to stay here. God Bless the Good old USA.

Thanks to the U.S for single handedly saving the world whislt the rest sat on their ends and did nothing. Don't forget that the U.S didn't come in until the enemy was already on it's knees thanks to allies but the U.S as usual claims all the credit.

[The Deerhunter]

Says the country that was built on Slavery

To put it more precisely, "One of the countries that was built on slavery".

England, Portugal, Spain, France & The Netherlands all became rich off the slave trade. Would you happen to be from one of these countries? No need to answer but certainly something to think about. Also, perhaps a little knowledge of world history would have prevented the need to post a smiling face with hands clapping to emphasize your ignorance of man's cruelty to man throughout the world..

How many companies e.g NIKE, ADIDDAS, etc... been busted many times for running sweat shops in South America, SEA, etc... child labour, workers living in squalor, low pay ....and are still in business today? why has the USA not done anything about this?

I bet you have a nice pair of name brand runners that were made in a sweat shop by some poor kid!

Um! Adidas is German as is Puma. Run originally by two brother by the surname of Dassler.

[djjamie]

The sad part about this is not so much that Thailand's ranking dropped, but the poor victims of these crimes. They are the forgotten victims that are just the numbers that equated to the drop in ranking.

There needs to be a concerted effort to reduce this evil trade which is simply not happening.

I do not see prevention of trafficking - I used to travel the Thai - Laos border crossing at Nong Khai weekly for nearly 2 years when I was working in Laos. Me and the wife traveled in our Thai car across that border weekly for trips to Lotus to quench my addiction to fresh Salmon which was not available in Vientiane. Of every trip we made no one checked our car and in fact we could have smuggled a dozen people across that border at anytime without being checked. It is quite simply a fluid border. We could have driven our car through and no one would have looked twice. In fact if you drive across you would be aware it is common practice to drive through each border point and then park the car and go back to get the stamps. It is inviting human trafficking.

And when you have a government that is more concerned about holding onto power than actually helping the victims of this crime that is a crime in itself. On the 9th July, 2013 - Chalerm says his priority is to get Thailand off of the US’s watch list for human trafficking. He said he will go all out to have Thailand removed from the human trafficking country list. He said crackdowns will be launched with the help of police. He said human trafficking abuses are rife in Samut Sakhon. To tackle the issue he instructed the Samut Sakhon police to step up measures and get the problem fixed within 7 days. He said he plans to meet with shrimp peeling and fishing operators in Samut Sakhon province to talk about child and forced labor.

He said a lot of things didn't he? He didn't do one.

​The victims of human trafficking deserve better and Thailand has failed them.

Edited June 21, 2014 by djjamie

[rucus7]

"Anti-trafficking law enforcement efforts remained insufficient compared with the size of the problem in Thailand, and corruption at all levels hampered the success of these efforts," the report said.

Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4.

Cheap shot

[slipperylobster]

Oh gosh, I hope this does not turn into another troll forum about the USA being bad guys. That would be pretty much irrelevant, as almost everyone agrees that the problem of trafficking/slavery does exist.

[Travel2003]

I love this anti American spirit here from those Britis and Europeans. How soon they forget if it wasn't for us Americans you will be going to the German Embassy to get a new passport. Maybe your Brits would even consider that something good. And you folks from Asia would be carrying your Japanese Passport to stay here. God Bless the Good old USA.

People who remember those days are of course very grateful.

Having said that, at that time the vast majority of Americans had relatives in Europe.

This makes it basically the Americans duty to go and help them, so it was not really a grand gesture why America got involved.

America would have been isolated again if not, and the good old greed (business) would have made them get involved anyhow.

Again, most are actually very grateful for the involvement.

The argument can not be used for ever.

Grateful or not, it doesn't give America a "carte blanch" to impose on other countries (failed democracy/country building in Iran, Central America, etc).

However,

as an individual country, USA has the sole right to criticize anyone, implement sanctions, and to stop aid to whomever they want.

[Alwyn]

The Thai Ambassador to the US said on BBC that the country could do more and will, he then detailed all that's being done and felt it was enough for LoS to remain in Tier 2.

Now it remains to be seen if any sort of sanctions will be imposed after 01 Oct or will the US decide that a warning to an ' old friend and ally ' will be enough ?

Does the US really think the Thais will worry about mere words from foreigners who don't understand Thainess whereas sanctions might actually get their attention ?

Considering how much time was given the this subject on the militaries live broadcast last night you can rest assured that there is a major concern over the perception of how other countries are currently viewing Thailand,it was even the first item on the broadcast!

Yes, and the military will get it sorted out... They are not screwing around now, when they say something, they mean business.

It really shows what the Thaksin regime has done for Thailand's image over the years.

The Yingluck administration got downgraded the last time and vowed to make changes..... they did nothing.... Why?

Because there was no money to be made from it for ministers.... that's why.

If their is money in it.... The PTP put 'their all' into it.

Looking forward to the huge clean up...... Many heads to roll on this one.... Maybe another gross negligence charge for Yingluck won't go amiss.

Really? You think this wasn't going on since before YL took over? You really think this is a new thing? Let's put another spin on it shall we.. How about the Junta did nothing until the USA started rattling cages? How about they would not have done anything about it if the USA hadn't rattled these cages? You're really dumb if you think this is all a result of Thaksin and you believe he introduced all of these working/trafficking conditions. To me it seem much more likely the rich 'elite' in BKK are responsible but you won't want to hear that, will you?

[ravip]

Another perfect and classic case of 'the Pot calling the kettle black"

[techboy]

"Anti-trafficking law enforcement efforts remained insufficient compared with the size of the problem in Thailand, and corruption at all levels hampered the success of these efforts," the report said.

Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4.

"Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4." You would not know. Your statement is based on zero verifiable knowledge which you possess. The situation is bad and you just figure you can get your yah-yahs by slinging another turd.

[cloudhopper]

"Anti-trafficking law enforcement efforts remained insufficient compared with the size of the problem in Thailand, and corruption at all levels hampered the success of these efforts," the report said.

Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4.

"Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4." You would not know. Your statement is based on zero verifiable knowledge which you possess. The situation is bad and you just figure you can get your yah-yahs by slinging another turd.

On the contrary I do know, and my comment reflects my personal experience with the enforcement of laws and corruption at all levels here in Thailand where I have lived full time for the past 15 years.

[rafish]

Looks like the Cambodian slaves are voting with their feet. Not like this event has any effect whatsoever on individule Thais or will change the culture of slavery in Asia. Perhaps America needs to look at its own use of slaves in their foreign enterprises as well as domestic?

[Emster23]

Says the country that was built on Slavery

but finally had the sense to change................do you see any change here?

Yes they did change after 460 years and one of the bloodiest civil wars in modern history, assignation of the president and Military rule of the southern states that lasted for 14 years after the war.

hmmm 1860-460= 1400. Ok, so Native Americans had slaves.... USA was formed after slavery had been operating, so one could say it was a British institution, considering areas that became USA were under British rule. (Britain did outlaw slave trade before US civil war to their credit, just wish to point out Paulzed playing fast and loose re: facts. Lincoln's assassination was not directly related to war between the states, that is his killing did not equal free slaves. Plus, sorry to say, war was not fought originally to free the slaves.

All said and done with what USA went through, should be very easy to end slave trade in Thailand by comparison. Doubt if would be a civil war over that issue.

BTW, the subject is about human trafficking in Thailand. That it exists or has existed in other places is not the subject. Deflecting to other areas shows perhaps lack any reasonable argument to refute US response to lack of progress shown by governments over the years here.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Emster23

[rafish]

Says the country that was built on Slavery

but finally had the sense to change................do you see any change here?

Yes they did change after 460 years and one of the bloodiest civil wars in modern history, assignation of the president and Military rule of the southern states that lasted for 14 years after the war.

hmmm 1860-460= 1400. Ok, so Native Americans had slaves.... USA was formed after slavery had been operating, so one could say it was a British institution, considering areas that became USA were under British rule. (Britain did outlaw slave trade before US civil war to their credit, just wish to point out Paulzed playing fast and loose re: facts. Lincoln's assassination was not directly related to war between the states, that is his killing did not equal free slaves. Plus, sorry to say, war was not fought originally to free the slaves.

All said and done with what USA went through, should be very easy to end slave trade in Thailand by comparison. Doubt if would be a civil war over that issue.

BTW, the subject is about human trafficking in Thailand. That it exists or has existed in other places is not the subject. Deflecting to other areas shows perhaps lack any reasonable argument to refute US response to lack of progress shown by governments over the years here.

Yes the story is about Human Trafficing in Thailand as well the downgrade of Thailand to tier 3 status by the USA's State Department clone John Kerry who obviously has turned a blind eye to Americas own participation in sweat shops around the world. hence "guilt by association." Get it now?

Edited June 21, 2014 by rafish

[wwest5829]

The Thai Ambassador to the US said on BBC that the country could do more and will, he then detailed all that's being done and felt it was enough for LoS to remain in Tier 2.

Now it remains to be seen if any sort of sanctions will be imposed after 01 Oct or will the US decide that a warning to an ' old friend and ally ' will be enough ?

Does the US really think the Thais will worry about mere words from foreigners who don't undersUtand Thainess whereas sanctions might actually get their attention ?

Considering how much time was given the this subject on the militaries live broadcast last night you can rest assured that there is a major concern over the perception of how other countries are currently viewing Thailand,it was even the first item on the broadcast!

Yes, and the military will get it sorted out... They are not screwing around now, when they say something, they mean business.

It really shows what the Thaksin regime has done for Thailand's image over the years.

The Yingluck administration got downgraded the last time and vowed to make changes..... they did nothing.... Why?

Because there was no money to be made from it for ministers.... that's why.

If their is money in it.... The PTP put 'their all' into it.

Looking forward to the huge clean up...... Many heads to roll on this one.... Maybe another gross negligence charge for Yingluck won't go amiss.

Hmm. Sorry, can we forget the political rhetoric (this issue has been endemic in Thailand for longer than any one political party) and thus concentrate on the issue. I say this, knowing that Thailand is not alone in letting the current political anger get the top billing, rather than dealing with the problems.

[Ned]

There'll still be enough gold in the pile of dung. Just got to be sitting up on top that's important.

[wwest5829]

Looks like the Cambodian slaves are voting with their feet. Not like this event has any effect whatsoever on individule Thais or will change the culture of slavery in Asia. Perhaps America needs to look at its own use of slaves in their foreign enterprises as well as domestic?

The U.S. continues to monitor this and American companies understand full well that the American public will turn away from products shown to be produced with slave labor. If not out of moral outrage the companies will respond to economic pressure.

[wandasloan]

Yes, and the military will get it sorted out... They are not screwing around now, when they say something, they mean business.

It really shows what the Thaksin regime has done for Thailand's image over the years.

The Yingluck administration got downgraded the last time and vowed to make changes..... they did nothing.... Why?

Because there was no money to be made from it for ministers.... that's why.

If their is money in it.... The PTP put 'their all' into it.

Looking forward to the huge clean up...... Many heads to roll on this one.... Maybe another gross negligence charge for Yingluck won't go amiss.

What do you think made this military turn 180 degrees then? According to the US report, THIS military, the one under Gen Prayuth and cronies who used to have a lot of power and now have all power, that military ....

... profited from the smuggling of Rohingya asylum seekers from Burma and Bangladesh (who transit through Thailand in order to reach Malaysia or Indonesia) and were complicit in their sale into forced labor on fishing vessels.

Thai navy and marine officials allegedly diverted to Thailand boats carrying Rohingya asylum seekers en route to Malaysia and facilitated the transfer of some migrants to smugglers and brokers who sold some Rohingya into forced labor on fishing vessels.

and

... Although the government reported conducting an internal investigation of trafficking-related military complicity in the exploitation of Rohingya asylum seekers, observers claimed that the government failed to thoroughly investigate the allegations.

(Spelling and grammar verbatim from the report.)

Why do you think THIS military named above now has become the clean-up military so suddenly?

Because I personally think the military hasn't changed at all in the past month, just as it didn't change in the past 41 years of involvement in human trafficking, slavery and severe human rights abuses - whether in charge or under one or the other of numerous governments.

Yes the story is about Human Trafficing in Thailand as well the downgrade of Thailand to tier 3 status by the USA's State Department clone John Kerry who obviously has turned a blind eye to Americas own participation in sweat shops around the world. hence "guilt by association." Get it now?

I'm going to guess you didn't read the report, you didn't read Kerry's remarks and you didn't watch the "ceremony" during which the report was released to the public. Just a guess, but it SEEMS you are unaware of the contents of the report, including its section detailing abuses in the United States and by Americans. Just a guess, but "turned a blind eye" is the opposite of what's in the report that I read.

.

Edited June 21, 2014 by wandasloan

[wwest5829]

"Thailand's image" is the problem. If that is the attitude then nothing will change. The poor have always served the rich in Thailand and society is truly hierarchical. Concepts of equality for all are alien in Thailand. The law is a prime example; the law works for those who can grease the system with money. For those without money there is no chance for fairness with the law. Until mindsets change then fairness and equality will remain a foreign concept.

While I cannot disagree with you, I must keep my mouth shut at the direction of your argument as in the U.S. "...and equal justice for all" equates with the level of legal representation you can afford in many cases.

[wwest5829]

Looks like the Cambodian slaves are voting with their feet. Not like this event has any effect whatsoever on individule Thais or will change the culture of slavery in Asia. Perhaps America needs to look at its own use of slaves in their foreign enterprises as well as domestic?

Sorry, not following you. Please cite the specific use of Americans using slaves in their foreign and domestic enterprises.

Hmmm, can I take you to court in Thailand for my loss of face as you are accusing me of using slave labor? Remember I am a voter in a democracy, if you hold the American gov't responsible then I am ultimately responsible for my elected government's actions or inactions (not that I agree with all U.S. Gov't actions)! While I fully recognize faults in some American actions I am affronted by such an unsubstantiated broad accusations.

[wwest5829]

Says the country that was built on Slavery.

Ignorance is a sad commentary. Read your history. Way over reaching in your statement.

[bkkstooge]

A very nasty detail of Thai law makes human trafficking perfectly legal. Any couple who has a either parent unregistered here and who has a child born here cannot get a birth certificate. Having a birth certificate, keep in mind, does not confer Thai citizenship, and so this situation has no justification. The implications are horribly profound because there are over 2 million illegal foreigners here and MORE than that number of native Thais in the rural areas who cannot get a birth certificate. Some natives' families have been here for more than a century and are WAY exploited for the gain of a few. There are entire villages of illegal Thais in the north and south. They have no rights, get no public health care, and cannot vote.

How convenient for all concerned.

The unregistered Thais set aside, which is a sticky way to discuss this I know, foreign parents who have a child born here when either parent is not registered are grisly grist for the pancreas mill. These couples are the unwilling source for a huge number of deprivations.

Grieving parent: "My beautiful child was taken away by bad Thai men."

Police: "What child? Show us their birth certificate"

Parent: "You have made it illegal to give us a birth certificate, and my child does not even have a country at all."

Police: "Your child does not exist. Please leave. And thank you for your contribution."

These children, literally, have no country, and in many circumstances cannot be registered even in the home country of either parent in question....because...those countries require a birth certificate. This is no loophole -- it is a deliberate malapropism of law that every color has as a stain, and some of both sides have this stain on their underwear.

It's not a red or yellow issue -- it's a Thai issue. It is a matter of shame and well-earned contempt. The route to Laos for such landless children is as well established as a Filipino Visa run. No Laos government official, officer or lowly deputy volunteer has ever been prosecuted for human trafficking. Ever. Makes it so easy even the maid could pull it off.

I cannot be kind about this. This issue is stone cold, barbaric buffalo thinking made into a mandate. This issue is the only thing I truly despise about Thai law, and the only thing. All law is imprecise, that is how lawyers make their money, but this is horrendous. This is inhumane, and if the King knew about this detail I think things would change abruptly.

One such couple was told, and this is a damning quote, "It is sad you lost your daughter, but at least you are alive."

The threat was subtle, and perfectly legal. If anyone has no documentation to prove their existence in the blind justice court of law their very existence is perfectly questionable. It always seems so reasonable to be a beast in certain circumstances.

If I think about this for more than an hour I literally puke. All you siders -- red, yellow and every other color -- this turd is on the plate of your favorite players.

Would you like some cheese for your shit sandwich? Go on ranting about corruption and evil politicians all you like -- the real problems are not being fixed. The real problems are far too profitable.

While this post seems to have become the predictable Uncle Sam vs everyone and visa versa I can't get past this post by fangferang a TVF member, who I never agree with and probably never will again. Nevertheless it really is a great and informative post. Thanks FangFerang

Like Very Much

Cheers

BKKStooge

[recycler]

Many families in Thailand find it normal to sell their own daughters and as soon as they come back with a kid or 2 subsequently traffic them in to prostitution to pay the bills...

With this mindset you can't expect anybody to be bothered about human trafficking.

[chooka]

I love this anti American spirit here from those Britis and Europeans. How soon they forget if it wasn't for us Americans you will be going to the German Embassy to get a new passport. Maybe your Brits would even consider that something good. And you folks from Asia would be carrying your Japanese Passport to stay here. God Bless the Good old USA.

Thanks to the U.S for single handedly saving the world whislt the rest sat on their ends and did nothing. Don't forget that the U.S didn't come in until the enemy was already on it's knees thanks to allies but the U.S as usual claims all the credit.

I thought it was Errol Flynn and John Wayne who saved the allies?

Actually Errol was Aussie

[Alwyn]

The military does not have a good track record for " getting this sorted". Couldn't be further from the truth if the past in anything to go by. Perhaps General Prayuth will prove to be different from the long list of predecessors. I hope so.

I'm amazed at the number of people here who are straight into blaming Thaksin etc. These people seem to believe it's a new thing that was implemented by him and his family which when you consider he was championing the farmers (to have a vote etc) seems strange. Even stranger is they can't see that the people who mainly benefit from these illegal migrant workers are the so called hi-so crowd from BKK. Personally I don't think this Junta will prove any different from others. Fact is that id the USA had not of brought this into the spotlight the Junta would not be even thinking about it - they're far too busy chasing down motorbike taxis and getting involved (or talking about it anyway) in city planning

[Alwyn]

Usually this type of announcement is followed by a knee-jerk reaction as the country's effort to save face.

Will they do anything this time?

yeah... they'll probably tow another bunch of Rohingya out so sea

[Alwyn]

The military does not have a good track record for " getting this sorted". Couldn't be further from the truth if the past in anything to go by. Perhaps General Prayuth will prove to be different from the long list of predecessors. I hope so.

You may very well be correct about the military, but let's consider this. Thaksins elected governments have been in power for over a decade (barring coups) and what did they accomplish? I love it when people try to disregard the unpleasant issues that occurred during that time. They were elected, what did they do to stop human trafficking, SFA, that's what.

Spot on.

Who didn't win an election in over ten years? Correct, the Dems. Who was the government the last 10 out of 12 years or so...? Correct, Thaksin's clan. I think it is fair to say that most of the mess Prayuth is trying to clean up is caused by Thaksin and his team of self serving corrupt politicians.

And you truly think this is Thaksin's fault and these conditions did not exist before he came to power? Were the military under orders from Thaksin to tow the Rohingya out to sea and disable their engines? Did Abhisit attempt to tackle this during his tenure? Who would be the people most likely to benefit from these migrant/illegal/slave workers? Thaksin or the so called "rich elite" in BKK? Would the military Junta even be thinking about this if hadn't been thrown in their faces by the USA? No is the answer you're looking for. People like you immediately shout "Thaksin" without thinking. This stuff has been going on forever and NO government attempted to tackle it yet the only name you are capable of shouting is Thaksin.

[northernjohn]

"Anti-trafficking law enforcement efforts remained insufficient compared with the size of the problem in Thailand, and corruption at all levels hampered the success of these efforts," the report said.

Fortunately for Thailand there is no Tier 4.

Also fortunate for Thailand their is a Junta running things now and showing signs of trying to clear up the corruption. I hope they have a high priority on this one.

this is really a wide open subject. It should include the welfare of the one's in the refuge camps. The last government cut their supply of daily needed nutrition to 50%.

also the conditions of storage housing for the ones in the south.

[John1thru10]

This is important.

Now, I'd like to address the US, about itself having falling to 23rd place ranking in media freedom. Well below other nations in terms of education, and income equality. Then let's talk about how the US has been in a constant state of war since after Carter left office.

[northernjohn]

The Thai Ambassador to the US said on BBC that the country could do more and will, he then detailed all that's being done and felt it was enough for LoS to remain in Tier 2.

Now it remains to be seen if any sort of sanctions will be imposed after 01 Oct or will the US decide that a warning to an ' old friend and ally ' will be enough ?

Does the US really think the Thais will worry about mere words from foreigners who don't understand Thainess whereas sanctions might actually get their attention ?

Considering how much time was given the this subject on the militaries live broadcast last night you can rest assured that there is a major concern over the perception of how other countries are currently viewing Thailand,it was even the first item on the broadcast!

Yes, and the military will get it sorted out... They are not screwing around now, when they say something, they mean business.

It really shows what the Thaksin regime has done for Thailand's image over the years.

The Yingluck administration got downgraded the last time and vowed to make changes..... they did nothing.... Why?

Because there was no money to be made from it for ministers.... that's why.

If their is money in it.... The PTP put 'their all' into it.

Looking forward to the huge clean up...... Many heads to roll on this one.... Maybe another gross negligence charge for Yingluck won't go amiss.

As stated in another thread, try reading the report.

Get it sorted out, lol. They are named as one of the causes.

Well done to America in this issue and hope they follow through with heavy sanctions and consumers boycott all products linked with slavery

True the Navy was named. I don't recall if the army was. If so the Army heads will roll first then the navy heads. Then the civilians.

they will start with the easiest ones to get at. How ever most of the slavery has been done by civilians and will be the hardest to root out.

[Mudcrab]

Many families in Thailand find it normal to sell their own daughters and as soon as they come back with a kid or 2 subsequently traffic them in to prostitution to pay the bills...

With this mindset you can't expect anybody to be bothered about human trafficking.

Name one.