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[kevinsmith]

I own a small condo in Pattaya, recently there has been a change in management.

They have increased the annual charge from 6480bt to 10800bt in one go, Whilst this may seem small to many people it is a lot in one jump.

Further more they have raised a further invoice for 8640bt for repairs, apparently the sinking fund has been lost by previous management and the new management say the roof of the building was not constructed properly and we all have to pay. Would appreciate any comments thank you.

[MJCM]

Was there a condo meeting ?

When they wanted to increase our Condo fee's (3 Thb per Sqm extra) this was brought up at the Yearly meeting.

More then 50% of the co-owners agreed with it , so it was approved.

[Basil B]

The problem with condominiums is they have problems in raising fees to keep up with inflation or they were never realistic in the first place so after a few years the sink fund is depleted.

To raise the management fees I recall by law they need something like 75% of all co-owners to vote in favour, not 75% of those present at a AGM/EGM but of all co-owners, unfortunately most condominiums struggle to even get a quorate meeting, but my former condominium got round this by voting for a surcharge, the original annual charges went up from 3600B to 5200B with the surcharge this was well invested in a repaint and other essential works.

I do not know what Condominium you are in but when I was paying 3600B for a clean, well maintained condo with the use of two swimming pools, 2 gyms, a club house, well maintained elevators, back up generators, fire fighting equipment, 24 hours security and a lot more I thought it a very good deal, I wondered how they could make the money go so far, in reality they could not, there were problems building up and a surcharge was their way round the problems.

The important thing is you and every other co-owner takes an interest, ensure you get accounts, copies of minutes for meeting, attend and vote at AGM's (EGM's), ensure that money spent is well accounted for.

If you have a very nice, well maintained and run Condominium with lots of services I do not think 10,000B is a lot.

[Pattaya46]

To raise the management fees I recall by law they need something like 75% of all co-owners to vote in favour, not 75% of those present at a AGM/EGM but of all co-owners, ...

50% "only" since the Condominium Act 2008, but it's still too much for most condo to reach the quorum.

I do not know what Condominium you are in but when I was paying 3600B for a clean, well maintained condo with the use of...

300 baht/month is really really low!

Or is your "apartment" same as in new condos: 24 sqm!

[KittenKong]

"I own a small condo in Pattaya, recently there has been a change in management.
They have increased the annual charge from 6480bt to 10800bt in one go, Whilst this may seem small to many people it is a lot in one jump.
Further more they have raised a further invoice for 8640bt for repairs, apparently the sinking fund has been lost by previous management and the new management say the roof of the building was not constructed properly and we all have to pay."

The management should not decide the fees: the committee should do this with the approval of the co-owners at a general meeting. As an owner you should have attended this and voted.

That said, many buildings here are still charging whatever the rate was when the building was new and after x years of inflation this is clearly insufficient. Some manage to vote a permanent increase (though Thai owners are almost invariably against this). Others get round the problem by levying an extra fee or sinking fund payment to cover the increase in costs. Some do both.

Personally I always vote in favour of common fee increases in the hope that higher common fees will drive away some of the cheapskate losers owners in my building.

Roof problems will indeed be paid for by all co-owners out of the sinking fund (though there may also be the possibility of suing the developer to get some of the money back: good luck with that). If there isnt enough money in the sinking fund then an extra charge will be levied to increase the fund accordingly.

[Basil B]

To raise the management fees I recall by law they need something like 75% of all co-owners to vote in favour, not 75% of those present at a AGM/EGM but of all co-owners, ...

50% "only" since the Condominium Act 2008, but it's still too much for most condo to reach the quorum.

I do not know what Condominium you are in but when I was paying 3600B for a clean, well maintained condo with the use of...

300 baht/month is really really low!

Or is your "apartment" same as in new condos: 24 sqm!

It was 32sqm, but that's not what you are paying for, it is the cleaning, maintenance, security of the common areas, elevator's, the building structure, swimming pools, CCTV, administration, and other amenities and services.

[Pattaya46]

It was 32sqm, but that's not what you are paying for, it is the cleaning, maintenance, security of the common areas, elevator's, the building structure, swimming pools, CCTV, administration, and other amenities and services.

Humm... Yes... but No

If your neighbour has a 64 sqm unit he will pay twice your price

for the same cleaning, security, pool... and other services.

These services are part of the value of your unit, and you pay accordingly for it.

[KittenKong]

It was 32sqm, but that's not what you are paying for, it is the cleaning, maintenance, security of the common areas, elevator's, the building structure, swimming pools, CCTV, administration, and other amenities and services.

Humm... Yes... but No

If your neighbour has a 64 sqm unit he will pay twice your price

for the same cleaning, security, pool... and other services.

These services are part of the value of your unit, and you pay accordingly for it.

They are not numerous but some buildings do in fact charge the common fee per unit, not by sqm.

[ThaiBob]

It was 32sqm, but that's not what you are paying for, it is the cleaning, maintenance, security of the common areas, elevator's, the building structure, swimming pools, CCTV, administration, and other amenities and services.

Humm... Yes... but No

If your neighbour has a 64 sqm unit he will pay twice your price

for the same cleaning, security, pool... and other services.

These services are part of the value of your unit, and you pay accordingly for it.

They are not numerous but some buildings do in fact charge the common fee per unit, not by sqm.

Several years the Association lawyer instructed our Committee they were not in compliance with the law and all dues were recalculated on a sqm basis. No additional revenue was generated.

[KittenKong]

They are not numerous but some buildings do in fact charge the common fee per unit, not by sqm.

Several years the Association lawyer instructed our Committee they were not in compliance with the law and all dues were recalculated on a sqm basis. No additional revenue was generated.

I've heard that too. But in some buildings it still works on the per unit basis.

[kevinsmith]

Was there a condo meeting ?

When they wanted to increase our Condo fee's (3 Thb per Sqm extra) this was brought up at the Yearly meeting.

More then 50% of the co-owners agreed with it , so it was approved.

There was a meeting and I could not attend and they got a 33% vote in favor of increasing the fees and the charge for roof repairs.

[infinity11]

You mentioned that dirty four letter word: roof!

[MJCM]

Was there a condo meeting ?

When they wanted to increase our Condo fee's (3 Thb per Sqm extra) this was brought up at the Yearly meeting.

More then 50% of the co-owners agreed with it , so it was approved.

There was a meeting and I could not attend and they got a 33% vote in favor of increasing the fees and the charge for roof repairs.

33% is not enough ! It has to be carried (AFAIK) with at least 50% of the co-owners agreeing.

When you can't attend you can give a Proxy to one of the other co-owners to vote for you !

Edited June 24, 2014 by MJCM

[tx22cb]

They are not numerous but some buildings do in fact charge the common fee per unit, not by sqm.

Several years the Association lawyer instructed our Committee they were not in compliance with the law and all dues were recalculated on a sqm basis. No additional revenue was generated.

I've heard that too. But in some buildings it still works on the per unit basis.

Per unit basis is OK if all units are the same size (as in older buildings).

In the condo I used to live in in BKK, the common fee was per sq m, and the voting rights were per sq m. So the Penthouse units paid more, but had higher voting rights than my unit.

Similarly, the condo ownership %age was also per sq m (not per unit).

In that condo, the conservancy fee was a lot higher than the OP's 10k/year, so 10k is not outrageous, with one proviso. The 8k additional once-off charge for repairs is also reasonable, esp if they have to replenish the sinking fund and repair the roof, also with the same proviso.

The proviso - as long as all units pay the fees. I hate it when some owners do not pay the common fees ..... and leave the burden to the other more responsible co-owners.

[Basil B]

It was 32sqm, but that's not what you are paying for, it is the cleaning, maintenance, security of the common areas, elevator's, the building structure, swimming pools, CCTV, administration, and other amenities and services.

Humm... Yes... but No

If your neighbour has a 64 sqm unit he will pay twice your price

for the same cleaning, security, pool... and other services.

These services are part of the value of your unit, and you pay accordingly for it.

It is probable that someone has a larger unit or buys two units and knocks them into one will probably have more people in that unit or spending more nights in it than others, I was told that at the Condominium I used to have a unit they were designed for occasional use, they had to change the rule to allow permanent residency, though the most were still only used weekends and high days by Thais out of Bangkok, so the probability is that a person who has a larger unit will have more use out of the communal services.

As for the vote/maintenance fee by the unit or the square meter, in most cases it does not mater and may well be what is written in to the deeds, it may well be in condominiums that have units of different sizes they do have to pay by the square meter.

[Basil B]

Personally I always vote in favour of common fee increases in the hope that higher common fees will drive away some of the cheapskate losers owners in my building.

Totally agree, as long as the committee is approving "money wise" projects, that enhance and improve the value of you unit you are onto a winner.

Cutting back on maintenance, security, repairs and other sevices is not going to add value to your unit.

[dragonaus]

You will find new condo's such as Northpoint/Northshore/Zire/Waterfront etc pay approx 60THB per SQM per month, older types such as mine even though it was built in 1994 will pay approx 30 THB per SQM. Per Month

And yes in some condo's, not all owners pay their maintenance hence the reason for neglect in maintenance, but the annual payments are taken out when the person dies or sells the condo.

Edited June 25, 2014 by dragonaus

[Pattaya46]

You will find new condo's such as Northpoint/Northshore/Zire/Waterfront etc pay approx 60THB per SQM per month, older types such as mine even though it was built in 1994 will pay approx 30 THB per SQM. Per Month

Never saw 60 B/sqm yet, not even 50 ??

Zire by example announced 40 B/sqm "only", not 60.

30 B/sqm for a 20 yo condo is very expensive and not very frequent AFAIK...

It can be a lot cheaper. Many condos still have a 10 B/sqm fee.

I think it's the case for the View Talays, even for VT6 about 5-6 years old.

[dragonaus]

You will find new condo's such as Northpoint/Northshore/Zire/Waterfront etc pay approx 60THB per SQM per month, older types such as mine even though it was built in 1994 will pay approx 30 THB per SQM. Per Month

Never saw 60 B/sqm yet, not even 50 ??

Zire by example announced 40 B/sqm "only", not 60.

30 B/sqm for a 20 yo condo is very expensive and not very frequent AFAIK...

It can be a lot cheaper. Many condos still have a 10 B/sqm fee.

I think it's the case for the View Talays, even for VT6 about 5-6 years old.

Zire estimate 40THB on completion, adjusted to market rates on completion, now check next door at Northpoint also built by Raimon Land and tell me if they are under 60THB per SQM also check The Cove/ Cliff / Legend/ Waterfront / Vision / Reflection etc etc . I am in between the Zire and The Cove and we are 20 years old and I pay 34 per SQM and this is cheap for a prestige condo.

[Pattaya46]

also check The Cove/ Cliff / Legend/ Waterfront / Vision / Reflection etc etc

Hard to check Legend, Waterfront, Vision... when they are still in construction.

But as you seem to knows their fees, why not give us fee for Northpoint? or similar condos?

Common fee often is no more in their selling brochures...

[kevinsmith]

Was there a condo meeting ?

When they wanted to increase our Condo fee's (3 Thb per Sqm extra) this was brought up at the Yearly meeting.

More then 50% of the co-owners agreed with it , so it was approved.

There was a meeting and I could not attend and they got a 33% vote in favor of increasing the fees and the charge for roof repairs.

33% is not enough ! It has to be carried (AFAIK) with at least 50% of the co-owners agreeing.

When you can't attend you can give a Proxy to one of the other co-owners to vote for you !

[kevinsmith]

Was there a condo meeting ?

When they wanted to increase our Condo fee's (3 Thb per Sqm extra) this was brought up at the Yearly meeting.

More then 50% of the co-owners agreed with it , so it was approved.

There was a meeting and I could not attend and they got a 33% vote in favor of increasing the fees and the charge for roof repairs.

33% is not enough ! It has to be carried (AFAIK) with at least 50% of the co-owners agreeing.

When you can't attend you can give a Proxy to one of the other co-owners to vote for you !

[kevinsmith]

Thank you, therefore having been billed already how should one proceed, if I pay maybe only 35% of owners pay do we lose our money?

[dragonaus]

also check The Cove/ Cliff / Legend/ Waterfront / Vision / Reflection etc etc

Hard to check Legend, Waterfront, Vision... when they are still in construction.

But as you seem to knows their fees, why not give us fee for Northpoint? or similar condos?

Common fee often is no more in their selling brochures...

Amazing, but here goes............. Northpoint is exactly 60THB per SQM per month ................. The Cove exactly 60THB per SQM per Month ...............Reflection exactly 50THB per SQM per month................ Waterfront stated from various agents 50THB and 60THB

Just Google yourself, that may help.

[dragonaus]

also check The Cove/ Cliff / Legend/ Waterfront / Vision / Reflection etc etc

Hard to check Legend, Waterfront, Vision... when they are still in construction.

But as you seem to knows their fees, why not give us fee for Northpoint? or similar condos?

Common fee often is no more in their selling brochures...

Amazing, but here goes............. Northpoint is exactly 60THB per SQM per month ................. The Cove exactly 60THB per SQM per Month ...............Reflection exactly 50THB per SQM per month................ Waterfront stated from various agents 50THB and 60THB

Just Google yourself, that may help.

Add another............. Prima Wongamat 60 THB per SQM per month. it really isn't that hard to find any answer you want, try it before you spout!

[Basil B]

Thank you, therefore having been billed already how should one proceed, if I pay maybe only 35% of owners pay do we lose our money?

Not sure what you mean?

It is virtually impossible for condominiums to get all the maintenance fees collected on time, but they can charge interest on overdue fee, and before anyone can sell they need a "free of debt letter" from the Juristic Person (Condominium Office).

In practice I see no problem in any well run Condominium getting 95% of all fees paid within a year of due date, in the end the Condominium will get the money with interest.

If you think the condominium is over charging or being run illegally it is an issue for the land registry, suggest you talk it through with other co-owners at your condominium for their views and if their are a few prepared to chip in go to a solicitor for help.

[Pattaya46]

Just Google yourself, that may help.

I tried before asking , but for Waterfront by example you have thousands of answer with "condo on the waterfront" or with resale offers...

I tried official sites too, http://www.waterfrontpattaya.com/, http://www.northpointpattaya.com/ and a few other, but you rarely find this info nowadays. Found it for Zire though: http://www.zirewongamat.com/factsheet.html

Can I ask you where you find these figures ?

[Jingthing]

Special assessments are very common with condos. Get used to it. If properly managed, they won't happen that often and won't be that expensive, but that good management includes taking in ample funds, having ample reserves, and managing the resources well. That's a big ask in Thailand and everywhere. People shopping for condos ... don't be naive. You're buying much more than your unit.

[dragonaus]

Just Google yourself, that may help.

I tried before asking , but for Waterfront by example you have thousands of answer with "condo on the waterfront" or with resale offers...

I tried official sites too, http://www.waterfrontpattaya.com/, http://www.northpointpattaya.com/ and a few other, but you rarely find this info nowadays. Found it for Zire though: http://www.zirewongamat.com/factsheet.html

Can I ask you where you find these figures ?

Easy, firstly I have been to all these developments to purchase and got info first hand, then today I backed them up after you doubted me, by typing the following " maintenance fees for The Cove in pattaya" or Northpoint etc.

Most of these builds are beachfront and sell for 110,000 THB - 150,000 per SQM. The average maintenance fee for a condo in good condition is 40THB in Pattaya. View Talay is not a great example and I would say they are in the lower end of the scale.

I looked for 4 years before buying my condo last year.