CON-MAN in Kanchanaburi

[Crossy]

The said person has been around for sometime, pretending to be a Lord. Think he is fairly well known in Kanchanaburi. I can't post a link due to name and shame, there is FB page which has him dressed up in full military uniform, and numerous postings about his scams. Probably not good for him to return anytime soon

That would be Lord Melbury then (Google him).

[snottgoblin]

The said person has been around for sometime, pretending to be a Lord. Think he is fairly well known in Kanchanaburi. I can't post a link due to name and shame, there is FB page which has him dressed up in full military uniform, and numerous postings about his scams. Probably not good for him to return anytime soon

That would be Lord Melbury then (Google him).

Not quite, but there was a comedy series with the lead character played by Ricki Tomlinson and the surname is the same

[JeremyBowskill]

and let me guess, his first name would be the same as the darts player "the power" Taylor.

Looks like a profile set up by OP IMO (correct Grant?).

Edited June 25, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[snottgoblin]

and let me guess, his first name would be the same as the darts player "the power" Taylor.

Looks like a profile set up by OP IMO (correct Grant?).

I think you might be spot on Jeremy. The powers of deduction on this forum eh?

I assume you don't mean me?

[JeremyBowskill]

and let me guess, his first name would be the same as the darts player "the power" Taylor.

Looks like a profile set up by OP IMO (correct Grant?).

I think you might be spot on Jeremy. The powers of deduction on this forum eh?

I assume you don't mean me?

Nope, his friend grant on FB or OP as I like to call him.

[Rooo]

Post detailing personal details of an individual removed.

[losworld]

caveat emptor and in Thailand 2X caveat emptor

[swissie]

It's easy. There are 3 kinds of Farangs in Thailand.

- The ones that have regular income from their home country.

- The ones legally employed by a company with work permit.

- The ones that HAVE to work here in order to survive. (Freelance "Entrepreneurs").

Regardless of what they want to sell you, stay away from them and tell them to go suck a lemon.

Cheers.

[KKr]

Beats me why anyone would even think about buying land here. It all seems to be just endless scams and lies and deceit, with no clear planning laws protecting the innocent or penalising the dishonest. Not to mention that as a farang you cant even own it in your own name anyway.

As for buying from an "English Lord", I wouldn't trust anyone in Thailand who purports to be one of those. I wouldnt trust war veterans, ex-SAS members, ex-CIA agents, lawyers, "businessmen" and "advisers" and "agents" etc here either. I fact I think the best plan when it comes to money here is just not to trust anyone at all.

Or even spanish real estate

Spain is a good example of an area where one can trust a solid broker couple, guess that soon Steve Lee and Anne Williams from Marbella / Malaga, worldwidepropertydeals.com, property4abroad.com and some other websites in between and probably in the making, will show up here as it will be getting too hot for them over there.

[Robert24]

Suggest you take a lawyer and go through the details of what you can do. The sooner you meet with the lawyer the better. It sounds like there is an element of the offense of cheating which you can ask the police to investigate and the government to prosecute him. If successful, you should be able to recover some of the money you lost through a civil suit. Also if he does business here without having a legally registered company, the police will investigate this as well and if proven charge him for this as well.

However one has to ask why you purchase land from someone/a company without a written contract and you make an upfront payment without any paperwork? Also I have a question about the price. You state you paid an overinflated price of 540k for 54sqw, why would you go ahead with the purchase if you think the price is too high? To me 10k per sqw sounds ok. Not sure about location what kind of gated community this is. But if you go to a reputable gated community like L&H, Sansiri etc, you easily pay 17k-25k per sqw depending on location.

Wish you all the best.

[JeremyBowskill]

Suggest you take a lawyer and go through the details of what you can do. The sooner you meet with the lawyer the better. It sounds like there is an element of the offense of cheating which you can ask the police to investigate and the government to prosecute him. If successful, you should be able to recover some of the money you lost through a civil suit. Also if he does business here without having a legally registered company, the police will investigate this as well and if proven charge him for this as well.

However one has to ask why you purchase land from someone/a company without a written contract and you make an upfront payment without any paperwork? Also I have a question about the price. You state you paid an overinflated price of 540k for 54sqw, why would you go ahead with the purchase if you think the price is too high? To me 10k per sqw sounds ok. Not sure about location what kind of gated community this is. But if you go to a reputable gated community like L&H, Sansiri etc, you easily pay 17k-25k per sqw depending on location.

Wish you all the best.

Get a lawyer for what? To chase 70k? because as far as I can see this is the only amount in dispute. The lawyer would most likely cost you that or more, after at least half a decade of p1ss1ing around trying to get it to court.

Wouldn't bother myself.

[Donnie Brasco]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

That's just an opinion.

He's broken a trust he established by posing as a high-born Pom.

He has likely conned enough people that he has started to believe his own legend.

(Ex-SAS, Jack-laddie, toffee-nose gone wild, if you ask me.

Investigate the medals as well.

My recommendation to the OP is to proceed with group action on all fronts AND rat the blighter out.

(Wot ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JeremyBowskill]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

That's just an opinion.

He's broken a trust he established by posing as a high-born Pom.

He has likely conned enough people that he has started to believe his own legend.

(Ex-SAS, Jack-laddie, toffee-nose gone wild, if you ask me.

Investigate the medals as well.

My recommendation to the OP is to proceed with group action on all fronts AND rat the blighter out.

(Wot ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is just an opinion hence I stated "In my book". Opinions vary.

[Robert24]

responding to Jeremy Bowskill. I accept your view that it is a waste of money to contact a lawyer, everyone can have his opinion. My rationale for getting in touch with a criminal lawyer is:

1) an initial meeting to outline the facts and discuss the options with a criminal lawyer costs you no more than 5k-10k.

2) Based on the information provided, I think this consists of all the necessary ingredients for the offense of cheating. Pretended to be a veteran, gained his trust by doing so, causing a financial loss in a commercial transaction. Potentially there is also an offense of fraud.

3) According to the information, the farang man is doing business here without having a registered legal entity in Thailand which is another offense.

4) If he doesn't have a registered legal entity, I assume he has no work permit neither which would be another offense.

5) If he doesn't have a registered company, did he pay tax on the profit? If not then there is another offense of evading tax/tax fraud.

If you report this case to the police, they will investigate it and if there is enough evidence, prosecution will charge him with the relevant offenses. You don't need a lawyer for this, this case would be entirely between prosecution and this farang man/thai woman and all you need to do is give a statement to the police and if he claims trial then you would have to stand as a witness. But no lawyer needed for this.

If you want to recover any losses occurred, you would have to file a civil suit against this man and you need a lawyer for that and there is cost involved. Again your lawyer would tell you what the chances are to win but one would think if he is found guilty in the criminal case, your chances would be good to recover the cost in a civil case. Possibly even the lawyer costs.

Now obviously I think the facts outlined raise many questions, i.e. how can someone build entire gated villages, do many sales transactions and not have a registered legal entity in Thailand. How do you buy land, get building approval, parcel up the land , get connectivity to electricity/water, hire construction companies and sell many houses without having a registered company? How can someone open a bank account in the company's name without having it legally registered? Just from my own experience doing business here in Thailand, I would find it very difficult without having a company registered.

But at least I would make a police report for them to investigate and if there a conman at work, they will prosecute him for whatever he has done wrong.

[Donnie Brasco]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

That's just an opinion.

He's broken a trust he established by posing as a high-born Pom.

He has likely conned enough people that he has started to believe his own legend.

(Ex-SAS, Jack-laddie, toffee-nose gone wild, if you ask me.

Investigate the medals as well.

My recommendation to the OP is to proceed with group action on all fronts AND rat the blighter out.

(Wot ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is just an opinion hence I stated "In my book". Opinions vary.

Indeed. . . . . as you have clearly stated.

(I was aware of that, BTW. I was merely coming forth with what (based on the same facts) my OWN course of action would be.

In encounters with knobs of this caliber my "viscerals" tend to run more to a "Hit what's hard; poke what's soft" remedy.

I'm sure you can appreciate.

The unfortunate OP fell for the toffy-nose routine and got himself viciously scammed. This con artist used his customary gambit of inclusionary ritual and incantation to charm his prey. Scammers like this don't flee the scene of the crime after their initial play.

To keep their victim "back-footed" they tend to follow the initial blow with a series of body blows.

I feel badly for him because he's been doubly wounded; first by this rapacious toff and then (sadly) by himself.

So many posts here and elsewhere in the Thai blogosphere feature an OP who has, quite (mistakenly and with devastating consequences) ASSUMED that all his native manners and mores, and if things go sideways, all the remedies embedded in the law and civility of his own country would be available to him HERE.

They are not.

Unfortunate OP took a double hit, there.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[JeremyBowskill]

responding to Jeremy Bowskill. I accept your view that it is a waste of money to contact a lawyer, everyone can have his opinion. My rationale for getting in touch with a criminal lawyer is:

1) an initial meeting to outline the facts and discuss the options with a criminal lawyer costs you no more than 5k-10k.

2) Based on the information provided, I think this consists of all the necessary ingredients for the offense of cheating. Pretended to be a veteran, gained his trust by doing so, causing a financial loss in a commercial transaction. Potentially there is also an offense of fraud.

3) According to the information, the farang man is doing business here without having a registered legal entity in Thailand which is another offense.

4) If he doesn't have a registered legal entity, I assume he has no work permit neither which would be another offense.

5) If he doesn't have a registered company, did he pay tax on the profit? If not then there is another offense of evading tax/tax fraud.

If you report this case to the police, they will investigate it and if there is enough evidence, prosecution will charge him with the relevant offenses. You don't need a lawyer for this, this case would be entirely between prosecution and this farang man/thai woman and all you need to do is give a statement to the police and if he claims trial then you would have to stand as a witness. But no lawyer needed for this.

If you want to recover any losses occurred, you would have to file a civil suit against this man and you need a lawyer for that and there is cost involved. Again your lawyer would tell you what the chances are to win but one would think if he is found guilty in the criminal case, your chances would be good to recover the cost in a civil case. Possibly even the lawyer costs.

Now obviously I think the facts outlined raise many questions, i.e. how can someone build entire gated villages, do many sales transactions and not have a registered legal entity in Thailand. How do you buy land, get building approval, parcel up the land , get connectivity to electricity/water, hire construction companies and sell many houses without having a registered company? How can someone open a bank account in the company's name without having it legally registered? Just from my own experience doing business here in Thailand, I would find it very difficult without having a company registered.

But at least I would make a police report for them to investigate and if there a conman at work, they will prosecute him for whatever he has done wrong.

Point number 1 I agree that's maybe the right price. Point number 2 will be near impossible to prove as its probably just a conversation between 2 people only, therefore no witness's. Points 3,4 and 5 might be true enough but don't require a lawyer, a simple call to local immigration would do the trick (if you are that way inclined). So my feelings don't change, a lawyer will be a costly (if you see it through to the end) and lengthy process and not worthwhile for 70k.

[JeremyBowskill]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

That's just an opinion.

He's broken a trust he established by posing as a high-born Pom.

He has likely conned enough people that he has started to believe his own legend.

(Ex-SAS, Jack-laddie, toffee-nose gone wild, if you ask me.

Investigate the medals as well.

My recommendation to the OP is to proceed with group action on all fronts AND rat the blighter out.

(Wot ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is just an opinion hence I stated "In my book". Opinions vary.

Indeed. . . . . as you have clearly stated.

(I was aware of that, BTW. I was merely coming forth with what (based on the same facts) my OWN course of action would be.

In encounters with knobs of this caliber my "viscerals" tend to run more to a "Hit what's hard; poke what's soft" remedy.

I'm sure you can appreciate.

The unfortunate OP fell for the toffy-nose routine and got himself viciously scammed. This con artist used his customary gambit of inclusionary ritual and incantation to charm his prey. Scammers like this don't flee the scene of the crime after their initial play.

To keep their victim "back-footed" they tend to follow the initial blow with a series of body blows.

I feel badly for him because he's been doubly wounded; first by this rapacious toff and then (sadly) by himself.

So many posts here and elsewhere in the Thai blogosphere feature an OP who has, quite (mistakenly and with devastating consequences) ASSUMED that all his native manners and mores, and if things go sideways, all the remedies embedded in the law and civility of his own country would be available to him HERE.

They are not.

Unfortunate OP took a double hit, there.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

I really don't see 70k as all that vicious, after all he did hand him 540k with no contract or chanote. This all comes down to 70k when all said and done as the guy delivered on the land sale (even if the price is over the top in my book). Its a 70k lesson, never take anyone at face value. Something I think OP should have probably have learned by his tender age already. I don't condone thieving pr1cks but as long as there are people out there behaving stupidly, then they will continue to exist.

I will not comment on what my course of action would be as I would never find myself in this situation.

Edited June 27, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[ldnguy]

For those saying that the OP should contact a lawyer or the immigration department, I can't see how either would help. You seem to be missing the point that a Thai woman is the land owner and seller, and another Thai woman is the buyer. There hasn't been any transaction at all between the farangs. What's a lawyer or court going to say? I'l tell you what they'll say - the Thai women have a contract saying that the one paid the money and the other got the land. All totally in order. As regards the extra 70K baht, is there any proof? If there is. who got the money? Was it the farang of the Thai woman? If the farang paid it, the court will likely ask why he is paying something for which he has no interest in. Contract is between two Thais and the farangs don't have any part of it.

And what will immigration do? They will look at teh case and see that this is a farang married to a Thai woman that sold some land. The farang doesn't appear to be working.

You need to look at the situation as it actually is, not as the OP claims it to be. The OP hasn't bought anything - his wife has. That is the legal situation based on the OP's post.

If you think this is a con man, then it is teh police you need to involve, not a lawyer or immigration. But I suspect the police will look at it and ask how a franag cheated a farang when neither was involved in the transaction. All paperwork shows Thai to Thai deal, based on what the OP has said.

I am not trying to defend the alleged con man here. If he is indeed a con man, then he should be sent to jail and then deported. I'm just looking at it from a legal point of view. And that shows a Thai to Thai deal. There is n farang deal at all. In a Western country you'd be laughed out of court if you brought a case like this. You'd turn up in court saying... my wife bought some land from another woman, so I want to sue her husband for cheating me. Can't you see that this just doesn't make any sense at all?

Edited June 27, 2014 by ldnguy

[Donnie Brasco]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

That's just an opinion.

He's broken a trust he established by posing as a high-born Pom.

He has likely conned enough people that he has started to believe his own legend.

(Ex-SAS, Jack-laddie, toffee-nose gone wild, if you ask me.

Investigate the medals as well.

My recommendation to the OP is to proceed with group action on all fronts AND rat the blighter out.

(Wot ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is just an opinion hence I stated "In my book". Opinions vary.

Indeed. . . . . as you have clearly stated.

(I was aware of that, BTW. I was merely coming forth with what (based on the same facts) my OWN course of action would be.

In encounters with knobs of this caliber my "viscerals" tend to run more to a "Hit what's hard; poke what's soft" remedy.

I'm sure you can appreciate.

The unfortunate OP fell for the toffy-nose routine and got himself viciously scammed. This con artist used his customary gambit of inclusionary ritual and incantation to charm his prey. Scammers like this don't flee the scene of the crime after their initial play.

To keep their victim "back-footed" they tend to follow the initial blow with a series of body blows.

I feel badly for him because he's been doubly wounded; first by this rapacious toff and then (sadly) by himself.

So many posts here and elsewhere in the Thai blogosphere feature an OP who has, quite (mistakenly and with devastating consequences) ASSUMED that all his native manners and mores, and if things go sideways, all the remedies embedded in the law and civility of his own country would be available to him HERE.

They are not.

Unfortunate OP took a double hit, there.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

I really don't see 70k as all that vicious, after all he did hand him 540k with no contract or chanote. This all comes down to 70k when all said and done as the guy delivered on the land sale (even if the price is over the top in my book). Its a 70k lesson, never take anyone at face value. Something I think OP should have probably have learned by his tender age already. I don't condone thieving pr1cks but as long as there are people out there behaving stupidly, then they will continue to exist.

I will not comment on what my course of action would be as I would never find myself in this situation.

Dude.

The purchase of land here by an Outlander is a mug's game.

I don't trust anyone here, locals or transpats.

The personal affront of being lied to and conned is ever present in this environment.

It's certainly not about the money.

The amount is unimportant.

The OP thought he had a new friend in a strange land . . . . a new friend he could trust.

It's the toff that needs to learn the lesson here and it's worth the effort to do it.

Dealing with toffee-schnoz would be (for me ;-) one of life's little pleasures.

You feel otherwise taking some path you obviously feel to be the high road.

I proudly lack the fitness assumed by those who would see themselves on that road.

I'd turn this jack@$$ into my own personal project and with the help of Thais well-placed to do as has been suggested, I'd quite enjoy kicking his @$$ around the estate.

But hey, that's just me.

L'il ole Donnie.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[JeremyBowskill]

Donnie.

It seems finally we agree on a course of action. Not that I would ever let this happen to me, but if he tucked up a more naive member of my family in such a manor, no lawyer or immigration call would be needed. I would simply beat him like a ginger stepchild I never wanted.

Although, as OP has said very little since his first post I suspect simple venting on here has made him feel satisfied enough already. Also, this is of course only 1 side of a story, who's to say the right honorable lord f*cknut didn't tell him up front about some " administration costs"? We would need a retort from the said lord to get the whole picture.

Edited June 28, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[Donnie Brasco]

Donnie.

It seems finally we agree on a course of action. Not that I would ever let this happen to me, but if he tucked up a more naive member of my family in such a manor, no lawyer or immigration call would be needed. I would simply beat him like a ginger stepchild I never wanted.

Although, as OP has said very little since his first post I suspect simple venting on here has made him feel satisfied enough already. Also, this is of course only 1 side of a story, who's to say the right honorable lord f*cknut didn't tell him up front about some " administration costs"? We would need a retort from the said lord to get the whole picture.

A response from Lord Bafflegab of Kanchanburi be helpful.

If it proved unsatisfactory and failed to answer important questions a complete profile of his background, actual pedigree, his business dealings in the Realm, his legal "workarounds" , his real estate projects, other clients and their possible exposure to Thai legislation forbidding such land transfers would be enlightening to us all.

So, um, where's the OP ?

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[Checkmate842]

Thank you all for your posts, I am now not at liberty to say anymore as this matter is with the Tourist Police and the Public Prosecutor, who just happens to have a very thick file on this would be Lord and now it is answer time.

[Crossy]

Since legal proceedings are in process I'm going to close this to further comment.

If our OP wants to post more info please PM me or report the topic requesting it be re-opened.