The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner

[femi fan]

Looking through the countries on the list, it's just the usual suspects, USA and it's main allies, which is comical and what one would usually expect.

Seriously, how can the USA lecture anyone on the issue of fair elections. This is a country that laughs in the face of true democracy by allowing their whole election process to be manipulated by money, powerful

co-operations and hidden secrets.

The arrogance of certain western nations is overwhelming.

And the arrogance of western citizens too, as evidenced by a few on this thread, and the many on these forums.

I liked your first post too. I rarely come to this forum due some of the rabid rhetoric used by posters in displaying what comes across to me as a deep hatred for thailand, thai people, and anything thai. And some of them, like on this thread, appear to believe in the correctness of their opinions. It is staggering to me that people living here can see corruption here, but can't see it in their home countries. There's a simple formula: the more money there is the more corruptioin there is. It is passport-proof.

Just about all the major flashpoints in the world over the last 3-400 years have been caused and created by UK, France, US, USSR, and long-lingering effects continue to be felt by many citizens in many nations.

Nowadays 95% or more of problems are caused by US, UK, Russia, France, and China. And they are the five nations that represent the UN Security Council. No coincidence. I call them the UN Insecurity Council.

I think the hatred many western people living here display towards the nation that puts up wtih them is due in some part to a subconscious grievance that thailand was never colonised by the european murderers.

Good luck to thailand in solving its problems. At least it is facing up to them. Many in western countries act like injured ostriches who just cannot pull their heads up to see anything.

[NeverSure]

There have been some fascist military dictators who started very popular, but the end result wasn't so great. Amazing crowds gathered to hear one speak and to cheer and cheer in the 1930's.

Most of them restricted the press, restricted public gatherings, locked up people who disagreed with them, and some sent people for "reeducation."

Please name me one, no matter how popular with the masses initially, actually had a good ending?

It's easy to cheer at the beginning, when it seems a country needs a savior. Needing a savior is what let those people get power in the first place.

[iphad]

There have been some fascist military dictators who started very popular, but the end result wasn't so great. Amazing crowds gathered to hear one speak and to cheer and cheer in the 1930's.

Most of them restricted the press, restricted public gatherings, locked up people who disagreed with them, and some sent people for "reeducation."

Please name me one, no matter how popular with the masses initially, actually had a good ending?

It's easy to cheer at the beginning, when it seems a country needs a savior. Needing a savior is what let those people get power in the first place.

So very true...although I now agree with the coup.... doesn't mean the future of Thailand is guaranteed.

[Roadman]

Actually, I would read Into this further.

Many Politicians around the world have seen the writing on the wall. The Thai military can do a better job of fixing it's own internal problems than what the Politicians can. Actually, a mess created by the politicians is being cleaned up by non politicians. Must be alarming for those fools as many of them could end up facing similar situations, one day In the future.

It's so amusing that half the countries on the list have more internal problems than you can point a stick at but their moronic leaders like to huff and puff their chests out and point in a different direction.

Really, the article should read, "Western douchebag Politicians get nervous".

Excellent post.

[siampolee]

One could be led to ask what are the chances of those western nations invading Thailand so as to restore democracy as they see want it ?

The delights of a perfected system of imposing a democratic system upon Thailand which has been honed to a fine art in say Iraq for instance, a rerun of Vietnam, an invasion Bay of Pigs style?

Indeed the possible future of Thailand being liberated from tyranny as viewed by the west is an interesting prospect.

No real need to worry though,there's no mineral wealth here is there.

[Seastallion]

Good article.....except the suggestion that Thailand could be welcomed into the BRICS fold....that's funny.

But Chinese alliances being strengthened would worry the US.

The Taiwan-China tensions, the China Sea islands tensions with PI et al and Japan, could all escalate....and with Thailand aligned with China, the whole game changes.

This is why the US, I am sure, has made a few phone calls to Canada, Australia, NZ, the UK etc, to say, "We need you to put pressure on, at least verbally, because we need to back off a bit".

My pick is that the US will tone down it's rhetoric very soon, as soon as it can do so without losing face. The whole thing is about not being seen to condone military coups, even though they may agree with it.

[femi fan]

Unfortunately in democracy it is mostly focused on short term goals...to get re-elected & influenced by campaign contributions.

Thailand needs long term goals..to fix the many problems.

Open minds are great!! Enjoy having one!

You hit the nail on the head here, perhaps inadvertently?? Democracy was described many decades ago by a UK leader as the 'least worst' form of governance. He was right then, but do we as a species really need to keep on hampereing ourselves, and aiming so low? Do we really want something that is the 'least worst'??

I don't. I want something much better. And the way democracy works in the modern era is a disgrace and an affront to human dignity. It is in fact, looking in on the likes of the US and the UK and Australia (the largest shouters, always; and the anglo-speakers of the world), plutocracy.

I don't want plutocracy any more. Thailand under this current leadership could be called a 'benign dictatorship', rather like Singapore was/is, and Malaysia was under Mahatir Mohammed. Sometimes this looks an awful lot better than the immensely corrupt US and UK models.

So, all the people here demanding thailand have a democracy, well, all you're asking for is a corrupt capitalist model where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

What's happening in thailand now is clearly what's best for thailand in 2014. It won't be best in the future, but we're not there yet, we're still here today.

[WitawatWatawit]

Looking through the countries on the list, it's just the usual suspects, USA and it's main allies, which is comical and what one would usually expect.

Seriously, how can the USA lecture anyone on the issue of fair elections. This is a country that laughs in the face of true democracy by allowing their whole election process to be manipulated by money, powerful

co-operations and hidden secrets.

The arrogance of certain western nations is overwhelming.

showing the neroistic Thaksin syndrom? Oh forgot, he's the adopted and groomed child of the 1%. To add on necrotic for the West in the analysis, this is a typical response pattern in that stage.

Was that written by a lorem ipsum generator?

A sandman app, I think.

[wealth]

Looking through the countries on the list, it's just the usual suspects, USA and it's main allies, which is comical and what one would usually expect.

Seriously, how can the USA lecture anyone on the issue of fair elections. This is a country that laughs in the face of true democracy by allowing their whole election process to be manipulated by money, powerful

co-operations and hidden secrets.

The arrogance of certain western nations is overwhelming.

showing the neroistic Thaksin syndrom? Oh forgot, he's the adopted and groomed child of the 1%. To add on necrotic for the West in the analysis, this is a typical response pattern in that stage.

Was that written by a lorem ipsum generator?

nero fiddledd while Rome was burning, - so I created neroistic

necrotic for example

as someone described his preferred version of necrotic -

I prefer the term necrotic pustular basket of cowards, cheats, thieves, swindlers, con-artists, <deleted> lying bastards, child abusers and war criminals.

the original meaning in medical terms

necrotic

necrotic adjective Dead; referring to death of cells or tissues.

[femi fan]

ps, i meant to say that many western countries need long-term goals too, instead of this pathetic charade every four years that they have democracies running their nations. Extreme-capitalist unsustainable exploitation is the name of the game for western corporations who run things through having easily corrupted the political leaders there.

[mogoso]

If the naysayers on this forum...( who I consider anti Thailand ) think Thailand should adhere to the West's superior wisdom I presume they mean that the Military should step down & elections should go ahead.

That's a brilliant idea .... I wonder who will get elected & everything will be better & back to normal?

Since the West is so wise .... what country have they interfered with...military direct or replacing the current government with a west leaning agenda through their many shadow terrorist groups have the support of it's people & not the support of the rich elite that can be bought?

I'm sure there is at least one but I can't think of one at the moment.

So would you say you broadly agree with the principle of the Army usurping a civilian government?

Not normally but I wouldn't mind it occurring in the US

[iphad]

There have been some fascist military dictators who started very popular, but the end result wasn't so great. Amazing crowds gathered to hear one speak and to cheer and cheer in the 1930's.

Most of them restricted the press, restricted public gatherings, locked up people who disagreed with them, and some sent people for "reeducation."

Please name me one, no matter how popular with the masses initially, actually had a good ending?

It's easy to cheer at the beginning, when it seems a country needs a savior. Needing a savior is what let those people get power in the first place.

ok I did think of one Lt.-Gen Sir Gerald Templer as British commander of Malaysia in 1952 and Malaysia gained independence in 1957..

Maybe not a great ie... still early morning lol

[Seastallion]

There have been some fascist military dictators who started very popular, but the end result wasn't so great. Amazing crowds gathered to hear one speak and to cheer and cheer in the 1930's.

Most of them restricted the press, restricted public gatherings, locked up people who disagreed with them, and some sent people for "reeducation."

Please name me one, no matter how popular with the masses initially, actually had a good ending?

It's easy to cheer at the beginning, when it seems a country needs a savior. Needing a savior is what let those people get power in the first place.

Napolean Bonaparte, George Papadopoulos, Frank Bainimarama (still in power).....there's bound to be more.

But I take your point that most end in tears.

However, it's not a foregone conclusion, and the General does seem to be doing a great job.

You have forgotten, too, that he seems to have the blessing of HM, and will surely defer to HM should HM wish to direct him.

[Chao Lao Beach]

One must ask, WHY the west supports vial corruption here? Are they scared of it bing challenged in their own backyard as well ??

[Robert2006]

For some reason the Oligarchs that control the US government want the Thaksin influenced side in control. We all should accept the fact, the US government, I mean the sales team that protects the central banks USD petro dollar, I mean the marketing directors that sell wars for the military industrial complex, I mean the US government always has to get their way.

[Thailand]

General Prayuth seems to be be a smart guy, he's kept the power post coup and having absolute power, can go for many jugulars, especially corrupt officials', which would be impossible in normal times.

This will win him everlasting praise from the population if he can do it and, most importantly can show the junta itself to be clean.

I saw the army sorting out the queues for the vans the other day, one of my friends said once the army is gone the mafia will be back again. This is one challenge- to make lasting changes to the justice system- real punishment and real enforcement of laws.

good luck to him.

Noise from the EU means nothing, they couldn't even prevent a war in their own backyard- Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia until the Americans finally intervened.

How does that old adage about absolute power go?

[stickyrice2000]

I encourage the general to stay in power forever, so there will have no corruptions in Thailand. Thailand will do just fine on her own. Bottom line, don't bother the US and EU and leave them feeling guilty with their actions.

Edited June 27, 2014 by stickyrice2000

[pisico]

I agree with this article. Not about the regret part, because if SEA ceased to exist

it would make little difference to America or Europe. From an outside perspective,

a coup looks bad. Probably conjuring up images of some tin pot dictator taking

over a country and immediately ordering a private jet. But that is far from what

has happened here. Through vote buying, it was fairly easy to simply take control

of Thailand and start looting it .Prayuth has brought that to a halt. So what he has

now is a communication issue. He needs to fully expose the cancer of Thaksin

to the public eye, prosecute those involved ,and show the western world the

enemy he is fighting. Then and only then will the western world understand what

is going on here.

My friend, you are deeply naive if you truly believe that Thaksin is the issue here. The entirety of Thai politics is built openly on a patronage system that feeds on and creates corruption.

You really think this corruption issue is new or even made much worse by Thaksin?

People in Thailand will largely vote for their 'teams' whoever they are beholden to. It has little to do with creating a platform and resolving issues in the country. When have you heard of any well defined core of ideas from either side of the political divide? Never.

Thailand was never ready for Democracy. They are a fully and plainly feudal society. The democracy was a surface coat of paint on their feudal system. That coat of paint has since cracked and we get to see how the system really works here.

I can't comment negatively on the military coups (by law), so I will not, but you need only to look at some of the other 18 coups to see many similarities to this coup.

George is a genius. Kudos to you.

This op piece is an embarrassment to any serious Media outlet. Thais have always been smug, self absorbed in their Thainess and Xenophobic, even despising their neighbours, ie.: Khmer, Burmese, Malays.

They think they are the navel of the world. We are the ones to be blamed for that. We came here since the 60s in droves and were bedazzled by the culture, women and cheap everything.

Now they are sending this veil threat that we may lose the jewel of the world, Thailand, if we force them into a corner demanding they respect the human rights of others. That does not compute in the Thai psyche.

Their thought process is this: "what business is it of yours if we have our way of dealing with minorities that come here to work? What business is it of yours if we have exchange of children for financial consideration, our own Thai children? We are not hurting anybody?"

In Thai history coup d'etat, slavery and human bondage, leonine indenture, etc. are part of their social structure. The same applies to the Indian cast culture.

The most egregious dictator in Thailand of the 20th. century, Pinbhunsongkham, came to power with an almost identical plan to reform the country. The reform culminated in the voluntary occupation of Thailand by the Japanese army, the beginning of institutionalized Xenophobia (read the 12 Mandates, in Thai preferably) and the cult to personality. The Thai people unanimously approved of the reforms and complied sheepishly, as they do now.

Years later, Pibhun was canned by another military man because the economy had gone to pots and now the army was the one major predator exercising corruption.

Fast forward to the 21 century. The Thai mindset has not changed. Corruption existed decades before a Thaksin was born, vote buying existed before Thaksin or Suthep were born, patronage, cronyism, nepotism, and other isms existed before the current politcos were born.

The current political climate is normal to Thais. Why then the outside world has to interfere with us, they reason.

True, let them have what they work and wish for.

When they are denied access to technology and/or the benefits of global commerce, let them eat Sontam.

Thais want to be the way they have always been? Excellent. Only remember: Thailand is what it is today thanks to massive foreign investment and foreign know how.

For the benefit of all, can anyone post a list of Thais who are recipients of a Nobel prize in Science? Can anyone post a list of Thai inventors and their inventions that made the world a better place for humankind?

They want to live the way they always lived, good! This is a Rip Van Winkle country.

Edited June 27, 2014 by pisico

[neverdie]

One must ask, WHY the west supports vial corruption here? Are they scared of it bing challenged in their own backyard as well ??

Well you are spot on as far as Australia is concerned, corruption is rife amongst politicians and corporations. Slush funds, abuse of power, abuse of tax payer funded money, prostitution and free home upgrades and the like. $3000 Bottles of wine for obtuse premiers. The list is never ending. A sham and a circus.

You wouldn't let a thief or bank robber polish your jewels, yet everywhere around the western world we see untrustworthy individuals In all levels of government, their dirty hands in the kitty, fake smiles, smoke and mirrors everywhere. Dirty low life scum bags abundant.

Time for the west to pull their ugly UGLY heads in and re~focus on their own internal sh it fights. Imbeciles.

[gazzasore]

The West should watch this

[PaullyW]

Unfortunately in democracy it is mostly focused on short term goals...to get re-elected & influenced by campaign contributions.

Thailand needs long term goals..to fix the many problems.

Open minds are great!! Enjoy having one!

You hit the nail on the head here, perhaps inadvertently?? Democracy was described many decades ago by a UK leader as the 'least worst' form of governance. He was right then, but do we as a species really need to keep on hampereing ourselves, and aiming so low? Do we really want something that is the 'least worst'??

I don't. I want something much better. And the way democracy works in the modern era is a disgrace and an affront to human dignity. It is in fact, looking in on the likes of the US and the UK and Australia (the largest shouters, always; and the anglo-speakers of the world), plutocracy.

I don't want plutocracy any more. Thailand under this current leadership could be called a 'benign dictatorship', rather like Singapore was/is, and Malaysia was under Mahatir Mohammed. Sometimes this looks an awful lot better than the immensely corrupt US and UK models.

So, all the people here demanding thailand have a democracy, well, all you're asking for is a corrupt capitalist model where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

What's happening in thailand now is clearly what's best for thailand in 2014. It won't be best in the future, but we're not there yet, we're still here today.

My friend, "we" are not demanding that Thailand maintains democracy. Thailand is and has been very vocal and proud even in claiming Thailand is an open democracy!! It's the Thai people who have been proud to say they are a democracy and respect democratic ideals.

So many of us, I'm sure, would take a different tone with Thailand if Thais were more honest and humble.

But, they waste no time pretending to be a part of the modern world, the international community and prance around demanding equal recognition of their 'accomplishments'.

If they'd just call it like it is, they would likely get more respect. Singapore, for example, is no true democracy and Singaporeans will admit to it generally. Why can't Thais be honest and admit that Thailand is not a democracy, not ready for it and deep down doesn't want it? They'd rather have a fuedalistic order?

Why?

[Always18]

Wow! - that'll sure make them sit up and take notice of a third world, failed state......................

Pathetic.

[PaullyW]

Unfortunately in democracy it is mostly focused on short term goals...to get re-elected & influenced by campaign contributions.

Thailand needs long term goals..to fix the many problems.

Open minds are great!! Enjoy having one!

You hit the nail on the head here, perhaps inadvertently?? Democracy was described many decades ago by a UK leader as the 'least worst' form of governance. He was right then, but do we as a species really need to keep on hampereing ourselves, and aiming so low? Do we really want something that is the 'least worst'??

I don't. I want something much better. And the way democracy works in the modern era is a disgrace and an affront to human dignity. It is in fact, looking in on the likes of the US and the UK and Australia (the largest shouters, always; and the anglo-speakers of the world), plutocracy.

I don't want plutocracy any more. Thailand under this current leadership could be called a 'benign dictatorship', rather like Singapore was/is, and Malaysia was under Mahatir Mohammed. Sometimes this looks an awful lot better than the immensely corrupt US and UK models.

So, all the people here demanding thailand have a democracy, well, all you're asking for is a corrupt capitalist model where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

What's happening in thailand now is clearly what's best for thailand in 2014. It won't be best in the future, but we're not there yet, we're still here today.

My friend, "we" are not demanding that Thailand maintains democracy. Thailand is and has been very vocal and proud even in claiming Thailand is an open democracy!! It's the Thai people who have been proud to say they are a democracy and respect democratic ideals.

So many of us, I'm sure, would take a different tone with Thailand if Thais were more honest and humble.

But, they waste no time pretending to be a part of the modern world, the international community and prance around demanding equal recognition of their 'accomplishments'.

If they'd just call it like it is, they would likely get more respect. Singapore, for example, is no true democracy and Singaporeans will admit to it generally. Why can't Thais be honest and admit that Thailand is not a democracy, not ready for it and deep down doesn't want it? They'd rather have a fuedalistic order?

Why?

[Seastallion]

Looking through the countries on the list, it's just the usual suspects, USA and it's main allies, which is comical and what one would usually expect.

Seriously, how can the USA lecture anyone on the issue of fair elections. This is a country that laughs in the face of true democracy by allowing their whole election process to be manipulated by money, powerful

co-operations and hidden secrets.

The arrogance of certain western nations is overwhelming.

showing the neroistic Thaksin syndrom? Oh forgot, he's the adopted and groomed child of the 1%. To add on necrotic for the West in the analysis, this is a typical response pattern in that stage.

Was that written by a lorem ipsum generator?

nero fiddledd while Rome was burning, - so I created neroistic

necrotic for example

as someone described his preferred version of necrotic -

I prefer the term necrotic pustular basket of cowards, cheats, thieves, swindlers, con-artists, <deleted> lying bastards, child abusers and war criminals.

the original meaning in medical terms

necrotic

necrotic adjective Dead; referring to death of cells or tissues.

Your neologism was clear, and necrotic as you used it was guessed.....however how you put all of the words together was almost haphazard.

[Seastallion]

One must ask, WHY the west supports vial corruption here? Are they scared of it bing challenged in their own backyard as well ??

Is that corruption in a small bottle, or corruption of a small bottle?

[iphad]

Unfortunately in democracy it is mostly focused on short term goals...to get re-elected & influenced by campaign contributions.

Thailand needs long term goals..to fix the many problems.

Open minds are great!! Enjoy having one!

You hit the nail on the head here, perhaps inadvertently?? Democracy was described many decades ago by a UK leader as the 'least worst' form of governance. He was right then, but do we as a species really need to keep on hampereing ourselves, and aiming so low? Do we really want something that is the 'least worst'??

I don't. I want something much better. And the way democracy works in the modern era is a disgrace and an affront to human dignity. It is in fact, looking in on the likes of the US and the UK and Australia (the largest shouters, always; and the anglo-speakers of the world), plutocracy.

I don't want plutocracy any more. Thailand under this current leadership could be called a 'benign dictatorship', rather like Singapore was/is, and Malaysia was under Mahatir Mohammed. Sometimes this looks an awful lot better than the immensely corrupt US and UK models.

So, all the people here demanding thailand have a democracy, well, all you're asking for is a corrupt capitalist model where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

What's happening in thailand now is clearly what's best for thailand in 2014. It won't be best in the future, but we're not there yet, we're still here today.

My friend, "we" are not demanding that Thailand maintains democracy. Thailand is and has been very vocal and proud even in claiming Thailand is an open democracy!! It's the Thai people who have been proud to say they are a democracy and respect democratic ideals.

So many of us, I'm sure, would take a different tone with Thailand if Thais were more honest and humble.

But, they waste no time pretending to be a part of the modern world, the international community and prance around demanding equal recognition of their 'accomplishments'.

If they'd just call it like it is, they would likely get more respect. Singapore, for example, is no true democracy and Singaporeans will admit to it generally. Why can't Thais be honest and admit that Thailand is not a democracy, not ready for it and deep down doesn't want it? They'd rather have a fuedalistic order?

Why?

since you called me friend.... I don't know how to say politely.... I don't agree with you at all.

[masuk]

Unfortunately this article is true that the West has started putting pressure on Thailand..

I mentioned the other day in a post with he US's report on Human Trafficking & downgrading Thailand to Tier 3 then EU saying sanctions it was obvious that these were connected.

Of course there will be posters here that will say Thailand is a crybaby,more Thainess,out of touch that the West couldn't care less about insignificant Thailand....but one wonders who the real crybabies are?

Thailand is sticking up for itself...

The West needs Thailand...not for trade....for regional access for their military power.

The West can go on about their moral high ground...but they are bullies......

They are "Exceptional" Thailand isn't.

I've had emails asking if I'm ok. I tell them the place has never been better.

They want to know what effect the army is having on day-to-day life. I tell them the truth - I saw a truck load of soldiers parked near Thae Pai gate. Nothing more.

I'm embarrassed that Australia has chosen to fall into line with other poorly informed nations.

[tomwct]

As an American, living in Thailand for 11 years, this is my second coup!. The problem with Thailand is

not the coup, it's inability to deal with Corruption. The politicians are corrupt, along with many government officials. Why should America complain, we have corrupt Obama who acts like a Dictator, but most

important he's an incompetant and now a Coward! Don't worry General Prayuth, America needs Thailand more

than you need to worry about America's present Socialist government! Continue your cleanup!!!

[gemini81]

Wow! - that'll sure make them sit up and take notice of a third world, failed state......................

Pathetic.

No doubt, I didn't know the Thailand was the center of the universe. But now we know, the general public in large countries abroad are all hung up on the feelings and status of a small banana republic in SE Asia. Life comes to a standstill...How will they go on with their everyday lives?

[Thanet]

Right - Thailand could jump into bed with China and Russia. Is that what Thais want, or what the NCPO wants? Most Thais I meet seem to aspire to the western way of life, with all its freedoms. They don't seem to admire the Chinese or Russians in the same way that they admire westerners.

Aside from public opinion, which isn't being listened to at the moment, the vast majority of Thailand's military hardware comes from the US / EU, so switching sides would be a very expensive proposition. The generals are also wealthy people, who likely have assets hidden away is the western world too.

From the NCPO's hysterical responses, it looks very much like the EU/US has them firmly by the short and curlies.

This wouldn't be news if the generals didn't care.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Thanet