Tighter security for flights to US

[Scott]

If it were in the name of Jihad, they could eat a bacon sandwich. But a good friend of mine, who is an atheist, would be offended and wouldn't eat it.

[PiPiFFS]

Ask yourself if bringing down planes with a bomb was a big deal why no planes have been brought down leaving from Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc where I doubt security is strong ? Because they can get far better results with a car bomb at markets, funerals, Mosques etc. Only in the US and UK is it a big deal. Because they want it to be.

I suppose it is just a well timed coincidence that the papers have today, a few days after news of the extra security measures announced that a dastardly plot to bomb London has been foiled but of course they can't tell anything more or national security so we just have to believe them and just let them take away more of our freedoms and rights so they can keep us all safe.

[impulse]

I'm waiting for the day when some terrorist sets off a bomb in the middle of the security line. What are they going to do then? Make people go through a security line in order to go through the security line. This will never end until we're all anesthetized for the journey and shipped on board like cargo.

Don't give 'em any ideas.

Next, we'll be going through the line butt naked and issued hospital gowns for the flight, and our clothes and luggage will have to fly on separate airplanes and our subdermal RFID tags will tell them if we're in the right seat, and.....

[AyG]

If it were in the name of Jihad, they could eat a bacon sandwich. But a good friend of mine, who is an atheist, would be offended and wouldn't eat it.

I think you underestimate the revulsion Moslems have of eating pork. A Malaysian (and moderate) Moslem friend of mine accidentally bit into a small piece of pork in a spring roll in New York after being assured by the waitress that it contained no pork. He immediately spat it out and was disgusted. So traumatic was the experience to him he still talks about it with passion more than 20 years later.

Anyway, so as not to discriminate against your atheist friend or, for that matter, Jews, let's also provide the option to tear up a page from the Koran.

[Chicog]

Many of my muslim colleagues like a bacon sarnie or a pint on the sly.

The Bangkok bomber and his chums were apparently quite hedonistic in Pattaya before they went on their doomed mission on Sukhumvit.

So no, that's not going to work. Neither is racial profiling, since many of our Chechnyan friends, among others, are quite caucasian and they can be quite extremist as Russia has found to its cost.

With the increasing power of manmade explosives these days, my biggest worry would be someone slipping a small device into someone's unattended baggage; they wouldn't even need to go through security to plant such a thing.

[Morch]

Personally I think they should offer all passengers a choice: eat a hot bacon sandwich or be subject to a full body search, including all cavities.

Can you please tell us how they can tell whether or not someone is a muslim?

Did you miss the bacon sandwich part?

I have at least one Muslim friend who would go for the "they forced me!" (while asking for seconds).

But then he's also a great believer in a broad application of the 100 mile rule.

On a more serious this sort of thing would just piss Muslims off and wouldn't deter a would be terrorist,

think eating the bacon while wearing a bomb would be classed as okish for the greater name of God.

[Scott]

If it were in the name of Jihad, they could eat a bacon sandwich. But a good friend of mine, who is an atheist, would be offended and wouldn't eat it.

I think you underestimate the revulsion Moslems have of eating pork. A Malaysian (and moderate) Moslem friend of mine accidentally bit into a small piece of pork in a spring roll in New York after being assured by the waitress that it contained no pork. He immediately spat it out and was disgusted. So traumatic was the experience to him he still talks about it with passion more than 20 years later.

Anyway, so as not to discriminate against your atheist friend or, for that matter, Jews, let's also provide the option to tear up a page from the Koran.

Actually, my atheist friend is also a vegetarian and that would be his biggest objection. As for tearing a page from the Koran, that would cause a whole lot of trouble for a whole lot of people, and again the bomber might feel justified.

Some of the radical converts to Islam might just be willing to exchange one of those 72 Virgins for a bacon sandwich, but I do think we are getting quite far off-topic. I apologize for contributing to the absurdity.

[Mudcrab]

While working in Turkey quite a number of years ago, everyone was stopped about a kilometer from the airport by the military and all luggage was searched, including a pat down of anyone. Luggage repacked, got to the airport, only to have everything searched again at the door before entering. Luggage repacked, only to have this happen again at the security gate.

What a nightmare.

Not as a big a nightmare as a plane blown out of the sky.....with you on board.

[Chicog]

Now the US is saying that it will not allow mobile phones, laptops, etc. onto aircraft unless they are charged and can be shown to work.

So if you turn up with a flat iPhone or iPad, be prepared to lose it.

More:

U.S. officials singled out smartphones including iPhones made by Apple and Galaxy phones made by Samsung Electronics for extra security checks on U.S.-bound direct flights from Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

The TSA also called for closer checks on travelers' shoes.

I can only speak about Heathrow, but I would think about leaving a bit earlier for your flight if you are doing it any time soon.

And if the Americans are doing it, it's only a matter of time before the rest follow.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Chicog

[NeverSure]

Imagine if all large planes were fixed so there was zero access to the cockpit from inside the plane making it impossible for anyone to enter the cockpit from the passenger area.....pilot and cockpit crew would enter/exit ONLY from a door directly from outside into the cockpit.

If done then the terrorists no matter how much they threatened would be unable to seize control to fly the plane into buildings which seems to be what they really want. Sure they could still blow up the plane and kill a few hundred people but that would likely occur in the air with no TV cameras to record the event....and frankly if the goal is to kill a few hundred people and strike terror then it could be more easily accomplished on land in a shopping mall etc.

I suspect without the possibility of actually taking control of the plane to insure it goes down in a ball of fire while TV cameras record the event that they would lose interest in airplanes. What are they going to do threaten to blow up the plane or kill the passengers if the pilot refuses to fly it into a building?

May sound stupid to some but it sure seems to make more sense to protect the cockpit with a redesign of doors then to subject hundreds of millions of passengers to security that may or may not actually stop some allah akbar idiot from getting a weapon onboard.

Well beyond time to think of different possible solutions to make airliners less attractive targets.

Have you forgotten the Lockerbie bombing? LINK

And when was the last successful commercial aircraft hijacking of a Western country's plane by terrorists?

If terrorist do manage to get enough quantity and quality of explosives inside the US without bringing them on an airplane, they will be hunted quickly and furiously by law enforcement as evidenced by the pressure cooker bombers.

One shouldn't put his guard down against these people. Diligence is a deterrent and they are hardly breaking the economy by getting that rammed at them.

[Chicog]

If terrorist do manage to get enough quantity and quality of explosives inside the US without bringing them on an airplane, they will be hunted quickly and furiously by law enforcement as evidenced by the pressure cooker bombers.

Er, quickly and furiously?

They managed to assemble two bombs and blow them up, otherwise the FBI would not even have known they existed.

Plus they were only found when they went on the run and committed a series of crimes, including the murder of a police officer; this after unnamed images were released to the public and they decided they had nowhere to hide, which had they been professionals probably would not have been true.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Chicog

[Scott]

While working in Turkey quite a number of years ago, everyone was stopped about a kilometer from the airport by the military and all luggage was searched, including a pat down of anyone. Luggage repacked, got to the airport, only to have everything searched again at the door before entering. Luggage repacked, only to have this happen again at the security gate.

What a nightmare.

Not as a big a nightmare as a plane blown out of the sky.....with you on board.

The nightmare wasn't being searched, it was repacking each time.

I don't have a problem with a security check, but after a few times, everything is a pretty big mess.

[chuckd]

If you start with your suitcase in a big mess, there is less trauma in repacking it.

[Chicog]

In fairness, having removed everything, the nice people in both the US and the UK offered to help repack my bag. So no complaints there.

This was last week.

I have no problem with security, I'd rather that that some cowardly a-hole blow me out of the sky. It isn't that much of a pain really.

[AyG]

I have no problem with security, I'd rather that that some cowardly a-hole blow me out of the sky. It isn't that much of a pain really.

Just out of curiosity, has there been any "successful" (meaning the aircraft was destroyed) attacks against commercial flights by suicide bombers in the last 20 years? All I can think of is failed attempts. All the recent "successful" attempts I can recall have been from bombs in the hold.

Given the ease with which a bomb was loaded at Heathrow for the Lockerbie flight (though the British government stubbornly refuses to admit so), why the obsession with searching passengers and not with securing what goes in the hold?

[Morch]

I have no problem with security, I'd rather that that some cowardly a-hole blow me out of the sky. It isn't that much of a pain really.

Just out of curiosity, has there been any "successful" (meaning the aircraft was destroyed) attacks against commercial flights by suicide bombers in the last 20 years? All I can think of is failed attempts. All the recent "successful" attempts I can recall have been from bombs in the hold.

Given the ease with which a bomb was loaded at Heathrow for the Lockerbie flight (though the British government stubbornly refuses to admit so), why the obsession with searching passengers and not with securing what goes in the hold?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Northern_Flight_6136

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Russian_aircraft_bombings

[AyG]

Just out of curiosity, has there been any "successful" (meaning the aircraft was destroyed) attacks against commercial flights by suicide bombers in the last 20 years? All I can think of is failed attempts. All the recent "successful" attempts I can recall have been from bombs in the hold.

Given the ease with which a bomb was loaded at Heathrow for the Lockerbie flight (though the British government stubbornly refuses to admit so), why the obsession with searching passengers and not with securing what goes in the hold?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Northern_Flight_6136

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Russian_aircraft_bombings

Thanks. Interesting. The former incident involved a passenger taking on bottles of petrol onto the plane which fairly basic security checks should have stopped. The latter, however, does appear to be genuine Islamic terrorism.

Still suspect the focus upon people taking off shoes and belts and whatever indignities the authorities are dreaming up for us now is disproportionate to the risk.

[Chicog]

I have no problem with security, I'd rather that that some cowardly a-hole blow me out of the sky. It isn't that much of a pain really.

Just out of curiosity, has there been any "successful" (meaning the aircraft was destroyed) attacks against commercial flights by suicide bombers in the last 20 years? All I can think of is failed attempts. All the recent "successful" attempts I can recall have been from bombs in the hold.

Given the ease with which a bomb was loaded at Heathrow for the Lockerbie flight (though the British government stubbornly refuses to admit so), why the obsession with searching passengers and not with securing what goes in the hold?

Suicide bombers no, Richard Reid failed (thankfully), and the liquid bomb plot was uncovered before it was enacted. However, since ISIS and their ilk are mostly Sunni, and the Sunni are more likely to fancy their 72 virgins, I can understand the raised security levels.

As for scanning luggage, I think they work on the basis that even if the materials for a bomb could be put in the hold, they probably wouldn't be able to be assembled unless you put a technician in the suitcase with them.

However, on arrival in London, I did find my bag was open and a nice thank you from the TSA saying that they had opened it and looked. I clean forgot and locked it with one of those three-number-type locks. So they do physically inspect suspect luggage as well.

[PiPiFFS]

I have no problem with security, I'd rather that that some cowardly a-hole blow me out of the sky. It isn't that much of a pain really.

Just out of curiosity, has there been any "successful" (meaning the aircraft was destroyed) attacks against commercial flights by suicide bombers in the last 20 years? All I can think of is failed attempts. All the recent "successful" attempts I can recall have been from bombs in the hold.

Given the ease with which a bomb was loaded at Heathrow for the Lockerbie flight (though the British government stubbornly refuses to admit so), why the obsession with searching passengers and not with securing what goes in the hold?

Suicide bombers no, Richard Reid failed (thankfully), and the liquid bomb plot was uncovered before it was enacted. However, since ISIS and their ilk are mostly Sunni, and the Sunni are more likely to fancy their 72 virgins, I can understand the raised security levels.

As for scanning luggage, I think they work on the basis that even if the materials for a bomb could be put in the hold, they probably wouldn't be able to be assembled unless you put a technician in the suitcase with them.

However, on arrival in London, I did find my bag was open and a nice thank you from the TSA saying that they had opened it and looked. I clean forgot and locked it with one of those three-number-type locks. So they do physically inspect suspect luggage as well.

Just how many planes have ISIS brought down ?

If ISIS really was at war with the West planes would be the last thing they would try to attack.

Just try to think like a terrorist and not like a sheep. It would be far easier to attack the big queues at the security check points than blowing up the plane. They would then have to start to check everyone before they entered the airport terminal and then an attack there would simply bring the travel industry to a complete halt.

A bomb at a major football game would also cause far more damage to America than bringing down a plane as would a bomb in a shopping mall.

The fact these so called international terrorists can't see this as well tells me there is no real war on terror but rather this is just the modern version of the " Duck and cover " propaganda videos of the 50's when the bogeyman then was that nasty Russia.

Today it has changed to that nasty Al Qaeda Same game different bad guy !

[AyG]

If ISIS really was at war with the West planes would be the last thing they would try to attack.

Just try to think like a terrorist and not like a sheep. It would be far easier to attack the big queues at the security check points than blowing up the plane. They would then have to start to check everyone before they entered the airport terminal and then an attack there would simply bring the travel industry to a complete halt.

A bomb at a major football game would also cause far more damage to America than bringing down a plane as would a bomb in a shopping mall.

I'm not sure your analysis is right. Terrorism is about terror, not body count.

There was undoubtedly something horrifically magnificent and uniquely terrifying about seeing the planes plunge into the twin towers on 11/9. At the time I was working in Tokyo and turned on the TV before going to work. The first thing I saw was the first of the planes striking. I assumed I'd tuned into the wrong channel and was watching a movie. I'd never seen anything like it before outside the realm of entertainment.

The recent disappearance of the Malaysian Airlines plane is in a similar way chilling for being bizarre and so far unexplained.

Both events create (in my mind at least) more inner turmoil than a bomb at a football game in America ever would.

[Chicog]

If ISIS really was at war with the West planes would be the last thing they would try to attack.

Just try to think like a terrorist and not like a sheep. It would be far easier to attack the big queues at the security check points than blowing up the plane. They would then have to start to check everyone before they entered the airport terminal and then an attack there would simply bring the travel industry to a complete halt.

A bomb at a major football game would also cause far more damage to America than bringing down a plane as would a bomb in a shopping mall.

I'm not sure your analysis is right. Terrorism is about terror, not body count.

There was undoubtedly something horrifically magnificent and uniquely terrifying about seeing the planes plunge into the twin towers on 11/9. At the time I was working in Tokyo and turned on the TV before going to work. The first thing I saw was the first of the planes striking. I assumed I'd tuned into the wrong channel and was watching a movie. I'd never seen anything like it before outside the realm of entertainment.

The recent disappearance of the Malaysian Airlines plane is in a similar way chilling for being bizarre and so far unexplained.

Both events create (in my mind at least) more inner turmoil than a bomb at a football game in America ever would.

You're absolutely correct and you saved me responding.

[3NUMBAS]

all electronic goods will have to be seen working to ensure the battery hasnt been replaced with hitech explosives ,this will take time to do at immigration checks

[Chicog]

An interesting read from a former TSA worker.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/08/tsa-agent-new-airport-security-cell-phone-rules?

[zydeco]

An interesting read from a former TSA worker.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/08/tsa-agent-new-airport-security-cell-phone-rules?

I see he makes the same point I have been trying to get my friends to understand for years. Namely, these security procedures are creating ever bigger choke points and the security lines themselves are becoming an inevitable terrorist target. Security lines for security lines for security lines, eventually backing up all the way to the front door of your house.

[Chicog]

An interesting read from a former TSA worker.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/08/tsa-agent-new-airport-security-cell-phone-rules?

I see he makes the same point I have been trying to get my friends to understand for years. Namely, these security procedures are creating ever bigger choke points and the security lines themselves are becoming an inevitable terrorist target. Security lines for security lines for security lines, eventually backing up all the way to the front door of your house.

TBH the logical endpoint is luggage travelling on different aircraft to the passengers.

I wouldn't be at all bothered by that as long as they stopped the thieving little bastard baggage handlers.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/holiday-travel-alert-baggage-handlers-caught-tape-stealing-21243890

Edited July 8, 2014 by Chicog

[BKKdreaming]

I have been searched many times when I opt out of the full body scanner.....

Somehow that makes you a suspect , a pat down and rubbing a cloth over you then putting it in a scanner for explosives,

it takes a bit of time and if they made everyone do it then it would add hours in line...

Are they also going to go thru all checked luggage and turn them on ?

I will be bringing chargers , "power blocks" etc because you know they will not have a way for you to get back computers or phones that will not turn on......

Just hope it does not break while you are traveling !

But so far it has worked out and none of my flights have been blown up

thanks to the TSA I am sure of that.........

[Chicog]

I just went through the scanner, what's the big deal?

[chuckd]

I just went through the scanner, what's the big deal?

You haven't noticed you no longer need a night light in your bedroom?

[Chicog]

I just went through the scanner, what's the big deal?

You haven't noticed you no longer need a night light in your bedroom?

No, but the extra thumbs are coming in handy.

[capcc76]

While working in Turkey quite a number of years ago, everyone was stopped about a kilometer from the airport by the military and all luggage was searched, including a pat down of anyone. Luggage repacked, got to the airport, only to have everything searched again at the door before entering. Luggage repacked, only to have this happen again at the security gate.

What a nightmare.

Sad that such a small percentage of the world's undesirables can have such a profound impact on normal peoples' day to day lives.