Junta wants reforms done quickly

[NanLaew]

So police reform has slipped off never really was on the agenda?

And item 5?! I am sure that the great unwashed, you know, those infernal red buggers, the farmers, the fisherman, the factory workers and the OVERWHELMING MASS OF THE POPULACE THAT LIVE OUTSIDE BANGKOK are really really, really interested about making sure the Governor of Bangkok can be called such.

And some people on here applaud this sh!te?

[myluckythai]

reform of a country, political culture and constitution done quickly.... Sounds promising (ahem)

[Baerboxer]

There seems to be a lot of generalisations out there - ' the main influential people in Thailand are almost always corrupt', or 'most political candidates are mentally challenged'. Thailand is not a western democracy, the thinking is different, legal principles are different, the social structure is different, so the way to govern the country will be something that suits Thai people - not westerners. We may not like nepotism, but much of business is tied into very long standing family connections and obligations. All the talk about Thailand going down the gurgler is nonsense. It has a strong economy, and has survived various recent world downturns rather well.

The current military government clearly doesn't fit the stereotype view of the US and others,- tough ! It takes time to make the changes being raised, and maybe its about time for some of us to support and give credit for what,s happening, and stop the meaningless criticisms.

The first stage of a fascist military dictatorship is enthusiasm. The second stage is "well, give them more time."

There are five stages. Sounds like you're in the second stage.

Which fascist military dictatorships have you studied to produce your 5 stage life cycle model?

[englishoak]

Oops seems stage one the honeymoon period is coming to an end...

Why are some still harping on about an ex government when the topic is about the Junta wanting fast reforms ? which of course will fail in their haste and fervour to fix everything at once like a kid in a candy shop will sample everything but finish nothing... allowing of course a back door in later when they can claim the interim or to be elected gov fails to deliver the juntas promises btw the farmers were paid the same way as PTP wanted to do, only they didnt have the Juntas absolute power without limit.. farmers did not get poorer they are far better off now than they would have been selling at the market rates.... the country balance is worse off but not the farmers lets be clear about that. Unless it was because of loan sharks rates while the payments were blocked and messed up but the rice scam subsidy has only helped the farmers pockets however misguided the scheme. Then again there has been nothing done about loan sharks and thats because certain parties are making a huge profit out of it and guess who are running some of these loan sharking operations ? think camo and your on the right track....

So back to the topic, what has actually apart from farmers being paid been fixed ? nothing thats what,... a lot of hot air some parking, a few guns lots of parties and free stuff and noise and claims and promises but so far has actually fixed nothing fully at all... its been all bluster and words with no substance and a lot of populist sanctioned headlines with no criticism allowed.... You dont try to reform everything in sight all at the same time in short order.... a first grader will tell you they cant deal with the workload duh !

End of the day soldiers are soldiers, they are good at shooting things and intimidating people but thats about it.

I said history will judge and I dont mean the Thai version of history either with all its half truths and omitted details but stark hard reality about how great a military coup is for a countries progress, prosperity or even long term stability, the odds are never very favourable ... I stand by that still.

PS really good article in Bkk post and Minding Thailand's business. pretty much spot on.

Well I will admit that they are going a little bit to fast in my opinion. but they are doing some thing. You are wrong about the farmers of course. They gained nothing except bills. The minute the price they got for the grain went up was the same minute all the middle men charges to them went up including the land owners who were leasing the land to them. Not sure how you figure the little farmers who had to sell their land was a gain but then again I did not go to red shirt school. How did the one's who committed suicide over this big money making windfall you are talking about gain. Are you referring to the fact that the family cost of living went down. A pretty cold attitude.

Back to the topic. The plan to enrich the PTP coffers has been scrapped you know the one that would have are great grandchildren paying off the 2.2 trillion baht loan for which they had to show no accountability. All water management projects halted and made to come forth with all details. Like the 350 billion one that the PTP didn't even bother to do an inviormental study on before awarding the contract to a shady Korean country. That was the one that in their arrogance the courts had to order one done. They never did it. People being able to walk the streets with a lot less fear of a grenade or rocket being fired at them or ping pong balls thrown at them. The list goes on. Yes I realize these are not a red shirts idea of progress but learn to live with it.

You mean the 350bn water management one that the NCPO announced they are proceeding with in exactly the same form, price and with exactly the same bidders as previously under the PTP?

It was in the other paper on the 3rd July if you want to check. I wonder why the 40% PTP commission we are so often told about has not been taken out and the price reduced accordingly. No mention of environmental studies either.

Could be I missed the article. but I am not new to the TV and have seen many truths posted that were taken out of context. As for the environmental study as I said the PTP was ordered by the courts to take one. it has probably been completed and turned into the army So let's not be giving credit where it is not due.

As I say things taken out of context. Regardless of it going ahead I was right on when I said the army ordered a review of it which they got in a different form than the one the PTP had tried to ram down the peoples throat.

Where you been Haven't seen you around for a while?

Basically you have agreed with every thing I said.

Well John, first off im not a red supporter just a democratic supporter lets get that straight... yet again

Just what position do you think the farmers would have been in with a lower market price ? most that took it up were not very small farmers. sure there are some but the majority were not one or 3 rai holders, they would grow rice mainly anyway and still be in debt but more so probably, there are always those who have to sell land or worse, thats a given fact of life unfortunately, its always tragic but theres farmers that suicide every year and not just rice farmers. Since ive been in Thailand before and since the arrival of Thaksin its been going on its just a sad fact.

As to projects being stopped or scrapped or whatever that also happens all the time. Gov in gov out, coup in coup out theres always changes and rethinks, its hardly "fixing" anything.Stopping the harming of people IS a good thing but its hardly "fixed", stopping something isnt actually fixing it unless its lasting, anymore than 2010 fixed things not to happen this year when it went outside the democratic electoral system yet again.... it stopped temporarily. I expect this will be the same thing unless theres fully inclusive talks and a solution... no sign of that of course so far either.

As to PTP swelling coffers ? well your supposing and guessing and throwing out numbers, none of which is substantiated to date nor proven. although ive no doubt a large amount would end up there and ive no doubt a large amount will end up in someone elses pocket instead. It always does. im not sure on the water thing but ill refer you to smutcakes answer there.

So Mr yellow John or Camo John whatever seeing as colour is a fixation of yours for anyone who isnt on "your team" care to actually name one thing that has been "fixed" rather than altered or realigned or temporarily stopped ? or are you maybe referring to the up and coming "fixed" constitution which was of course their own one in the first place that needed "fixing" I expect to see a hong kong or singapore style solution there this time and still no real "fix" just a patch up.

Oh hang on i just thought of something they have fixed..... the supply of Cambodian workers, now theres plenty of work for all Thais to go around and some... yay.

i can however think of plenty of whats been stopped to add to your list if you like, im sure you know some of the list such as reading a book or eating a sandwich, three fingers, voting, parliament etc etc etc..

Now just so you dont think im all one sided... HAD they just come in and went all out for corruption on all concerned or a just focused on few key points fully and properly that are needed. education for instance the future of this country or the justice system from police right to the top judges and legal system id be a lot more supportive. but all they are trying to go for is just plain nuts, the more they try to do the more none will be properly and fully "fixed" Money is printable and its not really anything but bits of coloured paper its certainly not a core issue here Thailand is in very good shape financially compared globally and a non concern compared to education and the law... basics first and fixing the others with knowledge and real balanced justice will come a lot lot easier. Of course thats not a quick fix but two things are easier than two dozen or more in a year dont you think ?

You cant build a solid house without a solid foundation, i dont see the foundations being put in order, do you ?

Edited July 6, 2014 by englishoak

[larsjohnsson]

"I acknowledge that the NCPO is not a very pretty thing for a democratic system. There are people who say the NCPO should stay in power for five to 10 years but if we stay that long then we all will die of old age. Let's not stay that long but let us stay in accordance with the roadmap of the NCPO leader."

If the Junta is serious about reform and a complete overhaul of the corruption and the laws to punish the corrupt politicians

and re direction of this rotten culture and a new constitution to protect these new changes, if it takes one hundred years then the junta will need to stay in power for one hundred years or how ever long it takes to change.

The whole point of democratic elections is for the people to vote for a government to run the country for the people and for the benefit of the people, the previous system didn't do this.

So I think that the Junta needs to stay in power until the culture is changed, the new constitution is carved in stone and the new system is accepted by all, regardless if they will grow old during the process.

just my opinion.

The whole point with a democratic election is that the votes count. And no general will make a coup every time he don't like the result.

And the worst corruption is a coup

[tingtongteesood]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

[englishoak]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

[rubl]

Oops seems stage one the honeymoon period is coming to an end...

Why are some still harping on about an ex government when the topic is about the Junta wanting fast reforms ? which of course will fail in their haste and fervour to fix everything at once like a kid in a candy shop will sample everything but finish nothing... allowing of course a back door in later when they can claim the interim or to be elected gov fails to deliver the juntas promises btw the farmers were paid the same way as PTP wanted to do, only they didnt have the Juntas absolute power without limit.. farmers did not get poorer they are far better off now than they would have been selling at the market rates.... the country balance is worse off but not the farmers lets be clear about that. Unless it was because of loan sharks rates while the payments were blocked and messed up but the rice scam subsidy has only helped the farmers pockets however misguided the scheme. Then again there has been nothing done about loan sharks and thats because certain parties are making a huge profit out of it and guess who are running some of these loan sharking operations ? think camo and your on the right track....

So back to the topic, what has actually apart from farmers being paid been fixed ? nothing thats what,... a lot of hot air some parking, a few guns lots of parties and free stuff and noise and claims and promises but so far has actually fixed nothing fully at all... its been all bluster and words with no substance and a lot of populist sanctioned headlines with no criticism allowed.... You dont try to reform everything in sight all at the same time in short order.... a first grader will tell you they cant deal with the workload duh !

End of the day soldiers are soldiers, they are good at shooting things and intimidating people but thats about it.

I said history will judge and I dont mean the Thai version of history either with all its half truths and omitted details but stark hard reality about how great a military coup is for a countries progress, prosperity or even long term stability, the odds are never very favourable ... I stand by that still.

PS really good article in Bkk post and Minding Thailand's business. pretty much spot on.

Well I will admit that they are going a little bit to fast in my opinion. but they are doing some thing. You are wrong about the farmers of course. They gained nothing except bills. The minute the price they got for the grain went up was the same minute all the middle men charges to them went up including the land owners who were leasing the land to them. Not sure how you figure the little farmers who had to sell their land was a gain but then again I did not go to red shirt school. How did the one's who committed suicide over this big money making windfall you are talking about gain. Are you referring to the fact that the family cost of living went down. A pretty cold attitude.

Back to the topic. The plan to enrich the PTP coffers has been scrapped you know the one that would have are great grandchildren paying off the 2.2 trillion baht loan for which they had to show no accountability. All water management projects halted and made to come forth with all details. Like the 350 billion one that the PTP didn't even bother to do an inviormental study on before awarding the contract to a shady Korean country. That was the one that in their arrogance the courts had to order one done. They never did it. People being able to walk the streets with a lot less fear of a grenade or rocket being fired at them or ping pong balls thrown at them. The list goes on. Yes I realize these are not a red shirts idea of progress but learn to live with it.

You mean the 350bn water management one that the NCPO announced they are proceeding with in exactly the same form, price and with exactly the same bidders as previously under the PTP?

It was in the other paper on the 3rd July if you want to check. I wonder why the 40% PTP commission we are so often told about has not been taken out and the price reduced accordingly. No mention of environmental studies either.

The BP article shows a picture with the various projects and the expected costs as detailed by the Yingluck administration'. Furthermore it has Gen. Prayuth saying to press on with the schemes initiated by the previous government even though they are under review. Also he said that the projects the S. Koreans were interested in would be implemented. The general didn't go into details on individual projects.

The article also mentions that the NCPO wants to have the project financing put in the National Budget(s).

What the article didn't mention is if the previous government signed legally binding contracts with the bid winners. Cancellation of such contracts could lead to court cases and the requirement to compensate bidders. Neither does the article say anything on the expected costs of the projects which may continue.

Well, so much for informative reporting by smutcakes

[rubl]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

[englishoak]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Im sure it appeals to your agenda to have all one way traffic, unfortunately thats dosnt mean the truck coming the other way isnt there. Personally I like a freeway, can see much more coming although it seems many here prefer to have a single track railroad....however speeding along way over the limit is liable to get you derailed on the first few bends........... tingtongteesood indeed rubi

[heybruce]

There seems to be a lot of generalisations out there - ' the main influential people in Thailand are almost always corrupt', or 'most political candidates are mentally challenged'. Thailand is not a western democracy, the thinking is different, legal principles are different, the social structure is different, so the way to govern the country will be something that suits Thai people - not westerners. We may not like nepotism, but much of business is tied into very long standing family connections and obligations. All the talk about Thailand going down the gurgler is nonsense. It has a strong economy, and has survived various recent world downturns rather well.

The current military government clearly doesn't fit the stereotype view of the US and others,- tough ! It takes time to make the changes being raised, and maybe its about time for some of us to support and give credit for what,s happening, and stop the meaningless criticisms.

The first stage of a fascist military dictatorship is enthusiasm. The second stage is "well, give them more time."

There are five stages. Sounds like you're in the second stage.

Thailand has had many military coups. How many have transformed into long term military dictatorships in the past 50 years ? History speaks for itself.

Yeah, history speaks of a country with too many coups. Obviously none of them have resulted in a stable, popular government.

[heybruce]

Oops seems stage one the honeymoon period is coming to an end...

Why are some still harping on about an ex government when the topic is about the Junta wanting fast reforms ? which of course will fail in their haste and fervour to fix everything at once like a kid in a candy shop will sample everything but finish nothing... allowing of course a back door in later when they can claim the interim or to be elected gov fails to deliver the juntas promises btw the farmers were paid the same way as PTP wanted to do, only they didnt have the Juntas absolute power without limit.. farmers did not get poorer they are far better off now than they would have been selling at the market rates.... the country balance is worse off but not the farmers lets be clear about that. Unless it was because of loan sharks rates while the payments were blocked and messed up but the rice scam subsidy has only helped the farmers pockets however misguided the scheme. Then again there has been nothing done about loan sharks and thats because certain parties are making a huge profit out of it and guess who are running some of these loan sharking operations ? think camo and your on the right track....

So back to the topic, what has actually apart from farmers being paid been fixed ? nothing thats what,... a lot of hot air some parking, a few guns lots of parties and free stuff and noise and claims and promises but so far has actually fixed nothing fully at all... its been all bluster and words with no substance and a lot of populist sanctioned headlines with no criticism allowed.... You dont try to reform everything in sight all at the same time in short order.... a first grader will tell you they cant deal with the workload duh !

End of the day soldiers are soldiers, they are good at shooting things and intimidating people but thats about it.

I said history will judge and I dont mean the Thai version of history either with all its half truths and omitted details but stark hard reality about how great a military coup is for a countries progress, prosperity or even long term stability, the odds are never very favourable ... I stand by that still.

PS really good article in Bkk post and Minding Thailand's business. pretty much spot on.

"I said history will judge and I dont mean the Thai version of history either with all its half truths and omitted details but stark hard reality about how great a military coup is for a countries progress, prosperity or even long term stability, the odds are never very favourable ... I stand by that still".

A short term coup is simply designed to remove one pack of mongrels and replacing them with another type.

There will be no long term reforms or changes and the vicious cycle of political corruption, petty mafias etc will continue .

A long term coup is designed to make long-term changes to the culture and the political system, history will remember the American revolution, the American civil war, the Russian revolution, French Revolution etc... as successful coups that changed the political system and culture of a complete nation.

Remember that George Washington was the first man to be publicly called a traitor and a terrorist.

"...history will remember the American revolution, the American civil war, the Russian revolution, French Revolution etc... as successful coups that changed the political system and culture of a complete nation."

That's the first time I've read any of these events described as coups.

Also, "history will remember"? These are historical events, don't you think history has already decided how to remember them?

[heybruce]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Perhaps he was referring to this:

"Thailand's military authorities are setting up a network of panels to closely monitor domestic and international media and crack down on criticism of what the junta sees as its efforts to right the country, a senior officer said on Thursday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/26/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0P71F020140626

[jaidam]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Perhaps he was referring to this:

"Thailand's military authorities are setting up a network of panels to closely monitor domestic and international media and crack down on criticism of what the junta sees as its efforts to right the country, a senior officer said on Thursday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/26/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0P71F020140626

It must be frustrating for the general, pointing out the home truths to a northern chorus of "only a Shinawat must lead us forever". Must have been the same for C-dog Columbus when he got back from circumnavigation and a bunch of slackjaws at the harbour still maintained the earth is flat.

All I'd say is in time hopefully a more rational thought process will emerge once the ignorant acolytes have been weened from the delicious but deadly Shinawat nipple.

[maxme]

There seems to be a lot of generalisations out there - ' the main influential people in Thailand are almost always corrupt', or 'most political candidates are mentally challenged'. Thailand is not a western democracy, the thinking is different, legal principles are different, the social structure is different, so the way to govern the country will be something that suits Thai people - not westerners. We may not like nepotism, but much of business is tied into very long standing family connections and obligations. All the talk about Thailand going down the gurgler is nonsense. It has a strong economy, and has survived various recent world downturns rather well.

The current military government clearly doesn't fit the stereotype view of the US and others,- tough ! It takes time to make the changes being raised, and maybe its about time for some of us to support and give credit for what,s happening, and stop the meaningless criticisms.

The first stage of a fascist military dictatorship is enthusiasm. The second stage is "well, give them more time."

There are five stages. Sounds like you're in the second stage.

Sounds like you are Thai bashing. They do some thing positive in the government and you try to turn it into a negative. No helpful suggestions just they are in the process of becoming a dictatorship.

Absolutely no concern for the people that the military is helping out no credit for slowing down corruption just they are in the process of becoming a dictatorship. I suppose you would be happy if they turned it into a Democracy like North Korea where every one agrees on who runs the country by a vote.

Thai bashing... That was low even for you. Not all Thais are as enthusiastic about the future of this little enterprise as you are.

Thai democracy is not an alien concept just different and in my opinion, immature and heavily flawed.

Next you will be saying that Thais do not seek the opportunity to have a functional welfare system or an improved educational system as these are western concepts.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[heybruce]

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Perhaps he was referring to this:

"Thailand's military authorities are setting up a network of panels to closely monitor domestic and international media and crack down on criticism of what the junta sees as its efforts to right the country, a senior officer said on Thursday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/26/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0P71F020140626

It must be frustrating for the general, pointing out the home truths to a northern chorus of "only a Shinawat must lead us forever". Must have been the same for C-dog Columbus when he got back from circumnavigation and a bunch of slackjaws at the harbour still maintained the earth is flat.

All I'd say is in time hopefully a more rational thought process will emerge once the ignorant acolytes have been weened from the delicious but deadly Shinawat nipple.

Such a short post with so many foolish statements. I'll just address the most obvious and indisputable; Columbus didn't circumnavigate anything, and people already knew the earth was round when he sailed west. Are you really that poorly informed?

[larsjohnsson]

There seems to be a lot of generalisations out there - ' the main influential people in Thailand are almost always corrupt', or 'most political candidates are mentally challenged'. Thailand is not a western democracy, the thinking is different, legal principles are different, the social structure is different, so the way to govern the country will be something that suits Thai people - not westerners. We may not like nepotism, but much of business is tied into very long standing family connections and obligations. All the talk about Thailand going down the gurgler is nonsense. It has a strong economy, and has survived various recent world downturns rather well.

The current military government clearly doesn't fit the stereotype view of the US and others,- tough ! It takes time to make the changes being raised, and maybe its about time for some of us to support and give credit for what,s happening, and stop the meaningless criticisms.

The first stage of a fascist military dictatorship is enthusiasm. The second stage is "well, give them more time."

There are five stages. Sounds like you're in the second stage.

Thailand has had many military coups. How many have transformed into long term military dictatorships in the past 50 years ? History speaks for itself.

Yes history speaks for itself. The Thai military will never give up power and allow democracy.

[fab4]

The BP article shows a picture with the various projects and the expected costs as detailed by the Yingluck administration'. Furthermore it has Gen. Prayuth saying to press on with the schemes initiated by the previous government even though they are under review. Also he said that the projects the S. Koreans were interested in would be implemented. The general didn't go into details on individual projects.

The article also mentions that the NCPO wants to have the project financing put in the National Budget(s).

What the article didn't mention is if the previous government signed legally binding contracts with the bid winners. Cancellation of such contracts could lead to court cases and the requirement to compensate bidders. Neither does the article say anything on the expected costs of the projects which may continue.

Well, so much for informative reporting by smutcakes

What the article didn't mention is if the previous government signed legally binding contracts with the bid winners. Cancellation of such contracts could lead to court cases and the requirement to compensate bidders. Neither does the article say anything on the expected costs of the projects which may continue.

Of course you could have researched the answers to that yourself but you seem to be adverse to doing that. That may be because if you did you would find that the bid process was interrupted by a coup and that would not fit into your implied reasons for the junta having to carry on with the projects because of contracts already signed.

No, that doesn't seem to be the reason the junta have chosen to implement the previous governments plans;

WFMC secretary-general Suphot Tovichakchaikul said his committee would spend about a month studying the final plans, before announcing the winners on June 4 and signing contracts with them 30 days later.

On May 27, the WFMC will announce the names of contenders who win at the technical level, before negotiating costs with them and announcing the final names on June 4.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/4-bid-for-water-scheme-30205384.html

Could it be, shock, horror, because the previous governments plans for water management were a good idea?

[rubl]

I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations. I think they are wrong. So far it has been mostly positive. Let's hope it will stay that way.

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Perhaps he was referring to this:

"Thailand's military authorities are setting up a network of panels to closely monitor domestic and international media and crack down on criticism of what the junta sees as its efforts to right the country, a senior officer said on Thursday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/26/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0P71F020140626

I don't think out 'crazy too much' member was referring to that. He wrote "I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations.". If only positive reporting is allowed, surely no-one can 'bleat frustrations' because of that ?

[rubl]

The BP article shows a picture with the various projects and the expected costs as detailed by the Yingluck administration'. Furthermore it has Gen. Prayuth saying to press on with the schemes initiated by the previous government even though they are under review. Also he said that the projects the S. Koreans were interested in would be implemented. The general didn't go into details on individual projects.

The article also mentions that the NCPO wants to have the project financing put in the National Budget(s).

What the article didn't mention is if the previous government signed legally binding contracts with the bid winners. Cancellation of such contracts could lead to court cases and the requirement to compensate bidders. Neither does the article say anything on the expected costs of the projects which may continue.

Well, so much for informative reporting by smutcakes

What the article didn't mention is if the previous government signed legally binding contracts with the bid winners. Cancellation of such contracts could lead to court cases and the requirement to compensate bidders. Neither does the article say anything on the expected costs of the projects which may continue.

Of course you could have researched the answers to that yourself but you seem to be adverse to doing that. That may be because if you did you would find that the bid process was interrupted by a coup and that would not fit into your implied reasons for the junta having to carry on with the projects because of contracts already signed.

No, that doesn't seem to be the reason the junta have chosen to implement the previous governments plans;

WFMC secretary-general Suphot Tovichakchaikul said his committee would spend about a month studying the final plans, before announcing the winners on June 4 and signing contracts with them 30 days later.

On May 27, the WFMC will announce the names of contenders who win at the technical level, before negotiating costs with them and announcing the final names on June 4.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/4-bid-for-water-scheme-30205384.html

Could it be, shock, horror, because the previous governments plans for water management were a good idea?

Well, first of all thanks for the pointer, I really appreciated the effort you might have needed to find it.

Furthermore the article is from the 4th of May, so any progress was 'hindered' by the stop the NCPO put on the projects AFTER the coup on the 23rd of May. Even now Gen. Prayuth only said 'press on with schemes', 'project S. Koreans interested in will proceed' and 'even if all under review' and lastly "didn't give any details".

Somehow that seems a 'feel good' exercise without really committing much.

Of course, if you have some more info on which projects will really, really commence, get their EIA study under way with help of all locals involved, etc., etc., I would be much obliged to you

Edited July 7, 2014 by rubl

[heybruce]

Umm you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ? ​

Surely that would mean our very crazy man is totally wrong! I mean if only positive reporting is allowed, how could someone manage to 'bleat frustrations', that would be negative, wouldn't it ?

Perhaps he was referring to this:

"Thailand's military authorities are setting up a network of panels to closely monitor domestic and international media and crack down on criticism of what the junta sees as its efforts to right the country, a senior officer said on Thursday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/26/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0P71F020140626

I don't think out 'crazy too much' member was referring to that. He wrote "I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations.". If only positive reporting is allowed, surely no-one can 'bleat frustrations' because of that ?

Huh? tingtongteesood wrote: "So far it has been mostly positive." and englishoak replied: "you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ?" and I provided a link to a source pointing out that the Thai military intends to crackdown on media that criticizes them. So evidence suggest englishoak is correct; by cracking down on criticism the junta is trying, and to a large degree succeeding, in giving the impression everything is fine.

Fortunately the military also leaves openings for informed commentary. For example a week ago I would have not felt comfortable comparing the military government in Thailand to the one that misruled Burma for over twenty years. But according to Reuters, the junta's deputy chief stated:

'"Myanmar's government agrees with what Thailand is doing in order to return stability to the nation. Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0PE17F20140704

Apparently there are similarities, and even a meeting of the minds, between the Thai junta and the military rulers of Myanmar, and the junta doesn't object to this being publicized. I hope most people would agree that Thailand shouldn't take the same path Myanmar took after the 1988 coup.

[rubl]

I don't think out 'crazy too much' member was referring to that. He wrote "I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations.". If only positive reporting is allowed, surely no-one can 'bleat frustrations' because of that ?

Huh? tingtongteesood wrote: "So far it has been mostly positive." and englishoak replied: "you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ?" and I provided a link to a source pointing out that the Thai military intends to crackdown on media that criticizes them. So evidence suggest englishoak is correct; by cracking down on criticism the junta is trying, and to a large degree succeeding, in giving the impression everything is fine.

Fortunately the military also leaves openings for informed commentary. For example a week ago I would have not felt comfortable comparing the military government in Thailand to the one that misruled Burma for over twenty years. But according to Reuters, the junta's deputy chief stated:

'"Myanmar's government agrees with what Thailand is doing in order to return stability to the nation. Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0PE17F20140704

Apparently there are similarities, and even a meeting of the minds, between the Thai junta and the military rulers of Myanmar, and the junta doesn't object to this being publicized. I hope most people would agree that Thailand shouldn't take the same path Myanmar took after the 1988 coup.

Bit unlucky remark there, maybe Gen Prayuth is practising to become a politician

The Reuters article also has

"Myanmar's junta stepped aside in 2011 after nearly five decades of repressive rule and a nominally civilian government full of former military people has pushed through political reforms, freeing hundreds of political prisoners and unmuzzling the press."

Now the 'confirmed' plan calls for new general elections September/October 2015. That leaves the NCPO only 15 months total to equal the Myanmar nearly five decades of repressive rule. Five weeks let go by without brutal crackdowns, Bangkok it's normal self, farmers paid. Someone should tell the general some would rather he live up to their expectations

[heybruce]

I don't think out 'crazy too much' member was referring to that. He wrote "I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations.". If only positive reporting is allowed, surely no-one can 'bleat frustrations' because of that ?

Huh? tingtongteesood wrote: "So far it has been mostly positive." and englishoak replied: "you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ?" and I provided a link to a source pointing out that the Thai military intends to crackdown on media that criticizes them. So evidence suggest englishoak is correct; by cracking down on criticism the junta is trying, and to a large degree succeeding, in giving the impression everything is fine.

Fortunately the military also leaves openings for informed commentary. For example a week ago I would have not felt comfortable comparing the military government in Thailand to the one that misruled Burma for over twenty years. But according to Reuters, the junta's deputy chief stated:

'"Myanmar's government agrees with what Thailand is doing in order to return stability to the nation. Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0PE17F20140704

Apparently there are similarities, and even a meeting of the minds, between the Thai junta and the military rulers of Myanmar, and the junta doesn't object to this being publicized. I hope most people would agree that Thailand shouldn't take the same path Myanmar took after the 1988 coup.

Bit unlucky remark there, maybe Gen Prayuth is practising to become a politician

The Reuters article also has

"Myanmar's junta stepped aside in 2011 after nearly five decades of repressive rule and a nominally civilian government full of former military people has pushed through political reforms, freeing hundreds of political prisoners and unmuzzling the press."

Now the 'confirmed' plan calls for new general elections September/October 2015. That leaves the NCPO only 15 months total to equal the Myanmar nearly five decades of repressive rule. Five weeks let go by without brutal crackdowns, Bangkok it's normal self, farmers paid. Someone should tell the general some would rather he live up to their expectations

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

[ginjag]

I don't think out 'crazy too much' member was referring to that. He wrote "I see all the red shirt lovers are bleating their frustrations.". If only positive reporting is allowed, surely no-one can 'bleat frustrations' because of that ?

Huh? tingtongteesood wrote: "So far it has been mostly positive." and englishoak replied: "you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ?" and I provided a link to a source pointing out that the Thai military intends to crackdown on media that criticizes them. So evidence suggest englishoak is correct; by cracking down on criticism the junta is trying, and to a large degree succeeding, in giving the impression everything is fine.

Fortunately the military also leaves openings for informed commentary. For example a week ago I would have not felt comfortable comparing the military government in Thailand to the one that misruled Burma for over twenty years. But according to Reuters, the junta's deputy chief stated:

'"Myanmar's government agrees with what Thailand is doing in order to return stability to the nation. Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0PE17F20140704

Apparently there are similarities, and even a meeting of the minds, between the Thai junta and the military rulers of Myanmar, and the junta doesn't object to this being publicized. I hope most people would agree that Thailand shouldn't take the same path Myanmar took after the 1988 coup.

Bit unlucky remark there, maybe Gen Prayuth is practising to become a politician

The Reuters article also has

"Myanmar's junta stepped aside in 2011 after nearly five decades of repressive rule and a nominally civilian government full of former military people has pushed through political reforms, freeing hundreds of political prisoners and unmuzzling the press."

Now the 'confirmed' plan calls for new general elections September/October 2015. That leaves the NCPO only 15 months total to equal the Myanmar nearly five decades of repressive rule. Five weeks let go by without brutal crackdowns, Bangkok it's normal self, farmers paid. Someone should tell the general some would rather he live up to their expectations

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

Three years ago the elections expected meaningful democracy, but it proved that elections do NOT always give democracy, you see it's how the country is governed that tells us if they are democratic.

Looks like you leave it like a lottery OR like now do something about it.

[heybruce]

Huh? tingtongteesood wrote: "So far it has been mostly positive." and englishoak replied: "you dont think that only positive reporting allowed in the media has anything to do with that then ?" and I provided a link to a source pointing out that the Thai military intends to crackdown on media that criticizes them. So evidence suggest englishoak is correct; by cracking down on criticism the junta is trying, and to a large degree succeeding, in giving the impression everything is fine.

Fortunately the military also leaves openings for informed commentary. For example a week ago I would have not felt comfortable comparing the military government in Thailand to the one that misruled Burma for over twenty years. But according to Reuters, the junta's deputy chief stated:

'"Myanmar's government agrees with what Thailand is doing in order to return stability to the nation. Myanmar had a similar experience to us in 1988, so they understand," said Tanasak Patimapragorn, supreme commander of Thailand's armed forces, following a visit to Bangkok by Myanmar's army chief.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/thailand-politics-idUSL4N0PE17F20140704

Apparently there are similarities, and even a meeting of the minds, between the Thai junta and the military rulers of Myanmar, and the junta doesn't object to this being publicized. I hope most people would agree that Thailand shouldn't take the same path Myanmar took after the 1988 coup.

Bit unlucky remark there, maybe Gen Prayuth is practising to become a politician

The Reuters article also has

"Myanmar's junta stepped aside in 2011 after nearly five decades of repressive rule and a nominally civilian government full of former military people has pushed through political reforms, freeing hundreds of political prisoners and unmuzzling the press."

Now the 'confirmed' plan calls for new general elections September/October 2015. That leaves the NCPO only 15 months total to equal the Myanmar nearly five decades of repressive rule. Five weeks let go by without brutal crackdowns, Bangkok it's normal self, farmers paid. Someone should tell the general some would rather he live up to their expectations

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

Three years ago the elections expected meaningful democracy, but it proved that elections do NOT always give democracy, you see it's how the country is governed that tells us if they are democratic.

Looks like you leave it like a lottery OR like now do something about it.

Where did you get the idea that a government has to perform in a manner you agree with to be a democracy? I could write a great deal about how badly the governments of Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey are performing, but I won't deny that they are democratic governments or call for a coup to topple them

[ginjag]

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

Three years ago the elections expected meaningful democracy, but it proved that elections do NOT always give democracy, you see it's how the country is governed that tells us if they are democratic.

Looks like you leave it like a lottery OR like now do something about it.

Where did you get the idea that a government has to perform in a manner you agree with to be a democracy? I could write a great deal about how badly the governments of Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey are performing, but I won't deny that they are democratic governments or call for a coup to topple them

Nothing to do with what I agree with.

A democracy is when the elected government performs in a democratic way---( I get the impression you surely believe it did.)

Sorry to inform you it didn't so why argue the toss. Who in hell cares about Argentina etc ?? They were like your shower elected but it showed that they did not perform democratically. Or you maybe think PTP did for some strange reason.

Any government that goes way beyond it's own laws has to be given it's marching orders as well you know--or should know. Not call elections again. you only do this when a no confidence vote-or similar happens---Thailand was run diabolically that is why the PTP are out.

You will not agree for sure, anything new to add---other than the norm red reply. Help me in your thinking, what would have you suggested when the government was found to be undemocratically run ??? your remedies please ??? go to the people again ???

Edited July 9, 2014 by ginjag

[heybruce]

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

Three years ago the elections expected meaningful democracy, but it proved that elections do NOT always give democracy, you see it's how the country is governed that tells us if they are democratic.

Looks like you leave it like a lottery OR like now do something about it.

Where did you get the idea that a government has to perform in a manner you agree with to be a democracy? I could write a great deal about how badly the governments of Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey are performing, but I won't deny that they are democratic governments or call for a coup to topple them

Nothing to do with what I agree with.

A democracy is when the elected government performs in a democratic way---( I get the impression you surely believe it did.)

Sorry to inform you it didn't so why argue the toss. Who in hell cares about Argentina etc ?? They were like your shower elected but it showed that they did not perform democratically. Or you maybe think PTP did for some strange reason.

Any government that goes way beyond it's own laws has to be given it's marching orders as well you know--or should know. Not call elections again. you only do this when a no confidence vote-or similar happens---Thailand was run diabolically that is why the PTP are out.

You will not agree for sure, anything new to add---other than the norm red reply. Help me in your thinking, what would have you suggested when the government was found to be undemocratically run ??? your remedies please ??? go to the people again ???

"go to the people again ???"

Yes! It's their country, let them choose who is in charge. Also, let them decide what kind of government they want by letting them choose between proposed constitutions drafted by groups other than the military.

The PTP was flawed, but it was certainly more democratic than a military government.

Edited July 9, 2014 by heybruce

[ginjag]

Where did you get the idea that a government has to perform in a manner you agree with to be a democracy? I could write a great deal about how badly the governments of Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey are performing, but I won't deny that they are democratic governments or call for a coup to topple them

Nothing to do with what I agree with.

A democracy is when the elected government performs in a democratic way---( I get the impression you surely believe it did.)

Sorry to inform you it didn't so why argue the toss. Who in hell cares about Argentina etc ?? They were like your shower elected but it showed that they did not perform democratically. Or you maybe think PTP did for some strange reason.

Any government that goes way beyond it's own laws has to be given it's marching orders as well you know--or should know. Not call elections again. you only do this when a no confidence vote-or similar happens---Thailand was run diabolically that is why the PTP are out.

You will not agree for sure, anything new to add---other than the norm red reply. Help me in your thinking, what would have you suggested when the government was found to be undemocratically run ??? your remedies please ??? go to the people again ???

"go to the people again ???"

Yes! It's their country, let them choose who is in charge. Also, let them decide what kind of government they want by letting them choose between proposed constitutions drafted by groups other than the military.

The PTP was flawed, but it was certainly more democratic than a military government.

So you still say go to the people, and what give them PTP again ??? it went against the laws of Thailand.

So let the Thai people choose between proposed constitutions, they have no idea, this is why all these reforms will have to be sorted FOR the Thai people.

Your last sentence --the first 4 words were correct--I agree, the rest of the sentence is not correct, PTP were not democratic, we already have seen the general has not been elected but proved that you do not have to be elected to be democratic.

[heybruce]

Where did you get the idea that a government has to perform in a manner you agree with to be a democracy? I could write a great deal about how badly the governments of Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey are performing, but I won't deny that they are democratic governments or call for a coup to topple them

Nothing to do with what I agree with.

A democracy is when the elected government performs in a democratic way---( I get the impression you surely believe it did.)

Sorry to inform you it didn't so why argue the toss. Who in hell cares about Argentina etc ?? They were like your shower elected but it showed that they did not perform democratically. Or you maybe think PTP did for some strange reason.

Any government that goes way beyond it's own laws has to be given it's marching orders as well you know--or should know. Not call elections again. you only do this when a no confidence vote-or similar happens---Thailand was run diabolically that is why the PTP are out.

You will not agree for sure, anything new to add---other than the norm red reply. Help me in your thinking, what would have you suggested when the government was found to be undemocratically run ??? your remedies please ??? go to the people again ???

"go to the people again ???"

Yes! It's their country, let them choose who is in charge. Also, let them decide what kind of government they want by letting them choose between proposed constitutions drafted by groups other than the military.

The PTP was flawed, but it was certainly more democratic than a military government.

So you still say go to the people, and what give them PTP again ??? it went against the laws of Thailand.

So let the Thai people choose between proposed constitutions, they have no idea, this is why all these reforms will have to be sorted FOR the Thai people.

Your last sentence --the first 4 words were correct--I agree, the rest of the sentence is not correct, PTP were not democratic, we already have seen the general has not been elected but proved that you do not have to be elected to be democratic.

If the people of Thailand choose the PTP again, then yes, let the PTP lead the government. "It went against all the laws of Thailand." is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Yes, let the Thai people choose the new constitution. Do you think a military that makes it clear it doesn't serve the people of Thailand, that has a long history of coups, and that thinks the 1988 coup in Myanmar was necessary is qualified to write the constitution?

Explain this too me: "we already have seen the general has not been elected but proved that you do not have to be elected to be democratic." Are you saying the junta is democratic?

[rubl]

Bit unlucky remark there, maybe Gen Prayuth is practising to become a politician

The Reuters article also has

"Myanmar's junta stepped aside in 2011 after nearly five decades of repressive rule and a nominally civilian government full of former military people has pushed through political reforms, freeing hundreds of political prisoners and unmuzzling the press."

Now the 'confirmed' plan calls for new general elections September/October 2015. That leaves the NCPO only 15 months total to equal the Myanmar nearly five decades of repressive rule. Five weeks let go by without brutal crackdowns, Bangkok it's normal self, farmers paid. Someone should tell the general some would rather he live up to their expectations

No, I think it's more than an unlucky remark. I think it reveals a mentality that values stability and maintaining a traditional status quo above all else, a mentality in which this thinking is so deeply engrained that it doesn't realize it is out of sync with the rest of the world.

Elections in 15 months, if they occur, will only be meaningful if the constitution results in meaningful democracy. Since the junta considers democracy a source of instability, I assume the constitution will only allow a veneer of democracy. I suspect the elections will be for positions in impotent talk-shops, with all real power held behind the scenes. Of course if the elected talk-shops actually attempt to accomplish something, the military will be there ready to stage another coup.

Why is it that I suspect that what you assume is of course not much more than crystal ball gazing?

Might it be because of your interesting way of using those very words 'assume', 'suggest' and 'of course' ?